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Pius X Society says Vatican's current offer not acceptable (Catholic Caucus)
cna ^ | November 29, 2011 | David Kerr

Posted on 11/29/2011 3:30:59 PM PST by NYer

St. Pius X Society superior general Bishop Bernard Fellay

Rome, Italy, Nov 29, 2011 / 01:16 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- The Superior General of the Society of St. Pius X says he will inform the Vatican “in the next few days” that they cannot give the doctrinal reassurances required of them to advance reconciliation with the Catholic Church.

“It is true that this Doctrinal Preamble cannot receive our endorsement,” said Bishop Bernard Fellay on the society’s website, Nov. 28.

However, Bishop Fellay said his understanding is that the document is “not a definite text” and that it “can be clarified and modified.” In particular, he would like to discuss what the Vatican means when it says that there is “leeway” for a “legitimate discussion” on the documents and legacy of the Second Vatican Council.

“What is the extent of this leeway? The proposal that I will make in the next few days to the Roman authorities and their response in turn will enable us to evaluate our remaining options,” he said. 

The breakaway Society of St. Pius X was presented with the “doctrinal preamble” or statement of principles by the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in September.

The document outlined doctrinal points that the Vatican needs clarified before the 23-year rift between the two sides can be healed.  The society has been discussing its response for the past two months.

Bishop Fellay said that to give a “flat refusal,” to the Vatican offer would be the “simplest thing, perhaps, but not the most courteous,” and since the note that accompanies it “foresees the possibility of making clarifications,” it seems “necessary to ask for them instead of refusing them a priori.” He added that this “in no way prejudges the response that we will give.”

If the society agrees with the doctrinal preamble, they may be able to enter into the Church as a personal prelature—a jurisdiction without geographical boundaries designed to carry out particular pastoral initiatives.

But Bishop Fellay said that setting aside theological differences “in order to obtain a canonical status” would “expose” the society “to the danger of seeing the same differences crop up inevitably, which would make the canonical status not just precarious but quite simply unliveable.”

The Society of St. Pius X was founded by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre in 1970 as a response to what he described as errors that had crept into the Catholic Church following the 1962-1965 Second Vatican Council.

The society has had a strained relationship with the Vatican since Archbishop Lefebvre consecrated four bishops against the orders of Pope John Paul II in 1988.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Ministry/Outreach; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; doctrinalpreamble; fellay; lefebvre; levada; sspx; vatican; vatican2; vaticanii; vaticantwo

1 posted on 11/29/2011 3:31:04 PM PST by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 11/29/2011 3:32:28 PM PST by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: NYer

Pope Benedict knows what he is doing and will resolve this.


3 posted on 11/29/2011 3:35:36 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: NYer; lilyramone; crusadersoldier; Ellzeena; Anvilhead; stonehouse01; Goreknowshowtocheat; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.


4 posted on 11/29/2011 3:40:18 PM PST by narses (what you bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and what you loose upon earth, shall be ..)
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To: NYer

While I am sympathetic to much of what SSPX stands for I get the impression that they enjoy thumbing their noses at the Vatican.


5 posted on 11/29/2011 3:41:16 PM PST by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Straight Vermonter

Oh, they do. They really want to stay independent - no matter what they claim in public.


6 posted on 11/29/2011 4:02:11 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: NYer

When we lived in Ridgefield, CT, the SSPX had a church practically next door to us. The fathers all wore traditional priestly garb, and the services in their chapel were the Tridentine Mass. I sometimes spoke to one of the fathers when we were out skating on the lake, and they were very pleasant.

I would just LOVE to return to the old Tridentine Mass. But not at the cost of schism from the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

Numerous errors entered the Church after Vatican II. But I have read all the documents of Vatican II, and I do not think that any of them can be described as heretical. There is a difference between the Council and the so-called “spirit of Vatican II,” which was the dissident liberals’ method of twisting things their way.

I think it can be said that Vatican II was not one of the Church’s better Councils. Over the centuries, some Councils were critically important, and some might just as well not have been called. The Holy Ghost kept them from settling upon heresy, but there was no promise to keep them from irrelevance or even from being counterproductive.

So, I’ll stick with the Church, despite its superficial blemishes. Better than schism. But I hope they can work out an acceptable agreement to bring these people back.


7 posted on 11/29/2011 4:03:59 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero

My thoughts exactly


8 posted on 11/29/2011 4:47:25 PM PST by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on television.)
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To: nickcarraway

Not surprising sadly.


9 posted on 11/29/2011 4:54:15 PM PST by rzman21
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To: NYer

Pius X Society says Vatican’s current offer not acceptable >>

fine, stay on the outside looking in like the others.


10 posted on 11/29/2011 5:32:38 PM PST by Coleus
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: Cicero

I’ve been to the church several times, whenever I find myself in Ridgefield on Sunday morning.

I’ve always found them to be a rather dull group. Yep, boring “as all get out”.


12 posted on 11/29/2011 6:36:54 PM PST by campaignPete R-CT (I will go back to New Hampshire to campaign.)
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: cloudmountain; xone

Your posts and the ones quoting them were removed because they mention non-caucus member beliefs. If they remained, the thread would have to be opened so that non-members can speak for themselves.


16 posted on 11/29/2011 9:29:14 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: Religion Moderator

Thanks.


17 posted on 11/29/2011 9:36:42 PM PST by xone
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To: Cicero

My thoughts exactly too! I will take it a step further though - although as you say, none of the documents can be described as heretical, some of them (Gaudium et spes, in particular) used deliberately ambiguous language to make it easier for the dissident liberals to twist them in the name of the so called “spirit of Vatican II.”.

I do hope the schism is ultimately healed because I would love to start attending their masses. We have the extraordinary form now which is a step, but I find that the priests who say both are fuzzier in their homilies and not as pure in their doctrinal messages and catechesis in general.

So, I hope SSPX is untimately and soon reconciled to the Pope.


18 posted on 11/30/2011 4:27:00 AM PST by stonehouse01
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To: stonehouse01

meant = ultimately


19 posted on 11/30/2011 4:28:50 AM PST by stonehouse01
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To: Cicero

I don’t understand how the Feeneyites were brought back in without insisting upon any of this sort of doctrinal loyalty oath, while SSPX has to go through all of this.

The Feeneyites were probably further doctrinally from Rome, and on more basic points of doctrine.


20 posted on 11/30/2011 5:29:01 PM PST by B Knotts (Just another Tenther)
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To: Religion Moderator
Your posts and the ones quoting them were removed because they mention non-caucus member beliefs. If they remained, the thread would have to be opened so that non-members can speak for themselves.

Thanks for the explanation. I didn't go back to that thread so I didn't realize that the posts were deleted.

I'm fairly new here so I am not cognizant of the more subtle rules and this one seems subtle for me: mentioning non-caucus beliefs is not allowed. Saying Martin Luther was a breakaway from the Catholic Church falls into that category? I thought that was mere history. How is that so...honest curiosity. Thank you.

21 posted on 11/30/2011 7:18:31 PM PST by cloudmountain
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To: cloudmountain
Unprovocative, uncontestable historical facts applicable to non-members may be mentioned on a caucus, e.g. when Luther died. Few facts would qualify so it's best to not say anything at all. For instance, to say Luther was a "breakaway" would not qualify because a non-member may argue his intent was not to break away.

Click here for more guidelines to the Religion Forum.

22 posted on 12/01/2011 8:01:28 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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