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What Jesus said about homosexuality -- Part 1
Renew America ^ | 11-14-11 | Dan Popp

Posted on 11/30/2011 11:38:02 AM PST by ReformationFan

It's another slogan that passes for thought among the thinking-averse: "Jesus didn't say anything about homosexuality...." The rest of the sentence remains unspoken for fear that laughter might break out. "Jesus didn't say anything about homosexuality; therefore He approves of it."

First of all, that's what's known as an "argument from silence;" a logical fallacy. By this rule Jesus would be made to endorse rape, cannibalism and lots of other nasty stuff. Secondly, we cannot know whether Jesus, in His brief earthly ministry, ever mentioned homosexual sin specifically (see John 21:25), so the claim can't be substantiated. But the slogan is not only unverifiable and non-rational; it reveals ignorance of what we know Jesus did say. Though His teachings recorded in the gospels don't directly address the issue of same-sex sex, the Scriptures leave no room for an honest reader to conclude that Christ condones any sin, including this one.

Before we look at what Jesus said about homosexuality, let me explain my purpose in writing this. It isn't to put anyone down, or to say, "Jesus hates fags." If the Lord hated homosexual sinners, He would have to hate heterosexual sinners (like King David), and certainly murderers (like David, Moses and Paul), thieves, and so on, right down to jaywalkers. And me. And all Christians. If the Son of God had hated us sinners, He certainly wouldn't have endured torture and death on the cross to rescue us. To rescue us from our sins. My one intention is to help other believers respond to the far-less-than-half-truth that "Jesus didn't say anything about homosexuality."

Jesus' affirmation: The morality of the Old Testament is still valid

Contrary to the popular misconception, Jesus is not the Second Moses. He didn't come to give us new laws, or to hand out free passes to break the old ones. Christ didn't have to stand on a mountain and repeat by name every sin mentioned in the Old Testament for all of those sins to remain sins. God, by definition, doesn't change; therefore He does not change His ideas about what's right and wrong. If sin is not sin, then God is not God. *

Jesus addressed all sins generally when He said, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished." (Matt. 5:17,18) Again in Luke 16:16,17 He said, "The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John; since then the gospel of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of the Law to fail."

Far from smashing the moral code revealed to Israel, Jesus didn't even relax it — He tightened it.

"You have heard that the ancients were told, 'You shall not commit murder....' But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court.... You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery,' but I say to you, that every one who looks on a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with her already in his heart." (read Matt. 5:21ff)

In this less-loved portion of the Sermon on the Mount, the Lord continues with four more laws — each time with that same formula: You have heard...but I say — each time showing not that the Law of God has been repealed; rather, that it reaches deeper than we ever knew.

Jesus' premise: The original pattern is God's will

In answering a question about divorce, Christ lays a foundation that has implications for our topic.

And some Pharisees came to Him, testing Him, and saying, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any cause at all?" And He answered and said, "Have you not read, that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh'? Consequently they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to give her a certificate and divorce her?" He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart, Moses permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it has not been this way." (Matt. 19:3-8 NASB, emphasis mine — see also Mark 10:2-9)

His argument assumes that God created things a certain way because (duh) that's the way He wanted them. If we can get back to the original pattern, before sin marred the picture, we'll be able to see God's will for human sex and marriage. That heavenly will, restated here by the Lord, is one man and one woman united in marriage for life.

Christ taunts the Pharisees, faulting them for not deducing God's perfect will regarding marriage from the simple words, the two shall become one flesh. The implications of the fact that before God joined them, He made them male and female are even more elementary.

Homosexual behavior and "gay marriage" aren't going to fit into this primal pattern, which Jesus here places above the Law of Moses. If "serial monogamy" between man/woman couples isn't God's will, then neither is anything further outside the lines drawn in the opening chapters of Genesis. Jerry Falwell popularized this argument, "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve." He created them male and female for a reason. Creation involves design, and design reveals intent.

There are at least two other ways that Jesus spoke out against same-sex sex. I hope to examine those next time.

* Disbelievers have been known mock this truth, conflating universal laws with rules given to Israel to make it unique; failing to differentiate the ceremonial from the moral; and confusing changing punishments for sin, with the unchangeable sinfulness of sin. A digression for their sake is either unnecessary or unmerited.


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; ceremoniallaw; christ; christianity; danpopp; fornication; gomorrah; homosexualagenda; jesus; morallaw; paul; popp; porneia; sodom
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Popp puts forward a good argument but I would add Mark 7:21 where Jesus says "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders," The word "fornications" is translated from the Greek word porneia which is defined among other things as 1) illicit sexual intercourse,a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc. This clearly shows that Jesus did speak about homosexual behavior and considered it a sin.
1 posted on 11/30/2011 11:38:07 AM PST by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan

three words: Sodom and Gomorrah


2 posted on 11/30/2011 11:42:45 AM PST by cranked
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To: ReformationFan

Homosexuality is a corruption of natural human sexuality. It is obvious that sexuality has a intended purpose given to it by God through the laws of nature. It is also obvious that homosexuality perverts that purpose and corrupts the process of sexuality. This is not simply based upon religion but is scientific fact.

That Jesus said that our sins go beyond the act of corruption to even the thought of being willing to commit such corruption simply speaks to the fact that ‘sin’ refers to the heart and mind of man whereas the term ‘corruption’ could imply to any process at all. Jesus was simply saying that it is your heart and mind that will be judged and not just simply your actions.


3 posted on 11/30/2011 11:49:29 AM PST by TheBigIf
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To: ReformationFan

This contradicts what others have said claiming that some, if not all, of the laws handed to Moses do not apply to Christians.


4 posted on 11/30/2011 11:50:41 AM PST by Daveinyork
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To: ReformationFan

Yashua was saying that either in thought, word, or deed you fail. That’s why you need Him to save you from your sins.


5 posted on 11/30/2011 11:51:31 AM PST by SkyDancer ("If You Want To Learn To Love Better, You Should Start With A Friend Who You Hate")
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To: cranked

BINGO!!!!...


6 posted on 11/30/2011 11:52:30 AM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: Daveinyork
This contradicts what others have said claiming that some, if not all, of the laws handed to Moses do not apply to Christians.

They would be incorrect. Christ never abolished the law, instead he finished the law. We are held to an even higher standard than obeying the written law by not committing the act, we must not even allow the notion to enter our hearts. Christ told us that even were we to lust after a woman, then we have committed adultery in our hearts.

7 posted on 11/30/2011 11:58:47 AM PST by rjsimmon (1-20-2013 The Tree of Liberty Thirsts)
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To: Daveinyork
This contradicts what others have said claiming that some, if not all, of the laws handed to Moses do not apply to Christians.

That's kind of the point of the article.

8 posted on 11/30/2011 12:01:42 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Holding our flawed politicians to higher standards than the enemy’s politicians guarantees they win)
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To: ReformationFan

If we confess Jesus as God, the third Person of the Trinity, and we state that the Bible is the Word of God, then of course Jesus spoke of homosexuality, the entire Bible is His Word.


9 posted on 11/30/2011 12:05:05 PM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: ReformationFan

And if the homosexual lobby still had doubts, then they should Paul’s letters to the Corinthians.


10 posted on 11/30/2011 12:07:15 PM PST by PGR88
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To: Daveinyork
This contradicts what others have said claiming that some, if not all, of the laws handed to Moses do not apply to Christians

Because the doctrine of Christendom claims their doctrine begins in Matthew instead of Genesis, the doctrine fails on its face in that it claims that Yah’shua gave them a new commandment to form a new church and that this new church is the new chosen ones.

Mt 22:37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself...”

But what they fail to add is verse 40: “...On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

And since they neither teach or study Torah(Moses), they miss the fact that Yah’shua was quoting from Torah.

Dt 6:5 You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

and

Lev 19:18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself

11 posted on 11/30/2011 12:08:13 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: rjsimmon
Christ never abolished the law, instead he finished the law.

"For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished." ... Matthew 5:18

12 posted on 11/30/2011 12:13:15 PM PST by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: patlin

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,


13 posted on 11/30/2011 12:15:44 PM PST by OPS4 (Ops4 God Bless America!Jesus is Lord!)
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To: SkyDancer

Doesn’t He know what your sins will be, before you even commit them or are even born? Why would He breath life into someone that He knows will commit these sins?


14 posted on 11/30/2011 12:15:58 PM PST by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: OPS4

ROMANs1 26-29

http://www.christiananswers.net/bible/rom1.html#26


15 posted on 11/30/2011 12:17:12 PM PST by OPS4 (Ops4 God Bless America!Jesus is Lord!)
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To: ReformationFan

Funny thing is that Jesus and The Word are synonomous in such that the Scriptures not only reveal Christ but thay are equivalent to Him.

So...Leviticus and even Romans witness to the fact that Jesus spoke quite a few words regarding “homosexuality”.

And further on that...

I believe we need to think and approach this issue differently.

What the “arseno-koits” do is not sex at all. It is simply self-gratification through the consensual “use” of another person. Those examples from the animal realm (anecdotally some dogs and some penguions) are never embellished with proof of an arseno-koit act...only that these “gay” animals hang out together. It is the physical act that defines a “homosexual” and that act is not intended to propagate mankind.

The word “sex” means the physical act intended to propagate mankind. We should not allow the arseno-koits alter the pure definition of words and terms.


16 posted on 11/30/2011 12:19:42 PM PST by Cletus.D.Yokel (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alterations - The acronym explains the science.)
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To: ReformationFan

Jesus makes mention of homosexuality in several passages.

First, you have to realize that the words “homosexual” or “gay” are modern words. Instead, Jesus makes mention of Sodom and Gomorrah, where homosexual activity was known to be widespread.

He uses the term “Sodom and Gomorrah” to set a baseline for what is wrong. There are things that are worse than homosexual acts, but the implication is that homosexual acts are still pretty bad.

For example:
- in Matthew 10:14-15, where Jesus describes how his Word, as delivered by his disciples, is to be received:

“And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, as ye go forth out of that house or that city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.”

- in Matthew 10:23-24, where Jesus describes the fate of cities that did not believe after seeing His Works:

“And thou, Capernaum, shalt thou be exalted unto heaven? thou shalt go down unto Hades: for if the mighty works had been done in Sodom which were done in thee, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.”


17 posted on 11/30/2011 12:23:58 PM PST by kidd
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To: ReformationFan
"Jesus didn't say anything about homosexuality...." The rest of the sentence remains unspoken for fear that laughter might break out. "Jesus didn't say anything about homosexuality; therefore He approves of it." First of all, that's what's known as an "argument from silence;" a logical fallacy.

A lot of people laugh when priests are limited to men because no female apostles are acknowledged, too. Is that "an 'argument from silence;' a logical fallacy"?

This article is an opinion pretending to be logic. It picks and chooses amongst it's references and definitions in favor of its oft repeated preference for an answer. And the author is well aware of his abuse of logic, which is why he starts out by denying exactly what he then does.

The ridiculous levels of fear and loathing about this subject have been exactly the fuel that has enabled it to be used as a major cultural and - most dangerously - legal wedge in our society. What nobody can see through the rage is that enforcing general child protection laws and kicking the government out of the marriage business altogether would reduce the homosexuality issue to irrelevency. Instead, it's been agitated into paranoia, and endless arrogant and hate-filled claims of who Jesus loves and who he detests. It's utterly absurd, and makes Christians look like idiots.

18 posted on 11/30/2011 12:33:08 PM PST by Talisker (History will show the Illuminati won the ultimate Darwin Award.)
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To: stuartcr

It is a good thing, and I thank Him for it, that He is not like you, stuart.

You keep posing questions from a ‘mocking’ viewpoint. What IS the purpose of this question? It is somewhat sophomoric. Your focus seems to be on the ‘here and now’, completely ‘humanistic’.

Obviously, from your question, you might not allow life to one that would not do as you wished. Again, I thank God He is not like that. While you / I / we are not worthy of His love, we have it.


19 posted on 11/30/2011 12:40:27 PM PST by RoadGumby (For God so loved the world)
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To: Daveinyork

It would seem Jesus Himself contradicted those claiming that some, if not all, of the laws handed to Moses do not apply to Christians.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.” (Matt. 5:17)

The traditional Christian understanding of Old Testament commands and laws is as following:

“Although the Law given from God by Moses, as touching Ceremonies and Rites, do not bind Christian men, nor the Civil precepts thereof ought of necessity to be received in any commonwealth; yet notwithstanding, no Christian man whatsoever is free from the obedience of the Commandments which are called Moral.” (from the Anglican 39 “Articles of Religion” of 1562 (and before))

Basically, this is teaching that the commands in the Old Testament can be divided into three kinds:

Ceremonial: Having to do with the ancient Jewish religion and sacrificial system—completely fulfilled/finished in Jesus Christ (this includes the Kosher dietary regulations, blood regulations, and the Jewish feasts, etc.)

Civil: Having to do with the governance of the theocracracy of ancient Israel/Judah (which ended with the Babylonian captivity of 587 BC), but also, in a sense fulfilled/finished in Jesus Christ

Moral: Centered in the 10 Commandments—but including the sexual and other moral regulations found in the Old Testament, and summarized by Jesus as loving God (with all your heart, mind, soul, & strength) and loving your neighbor (as yourself). All still binding on Christians today.

In all the law—St. Paul is teaching that law-keeping, or morality by us does NOT SAVE....or in any way EARN us God’s favor, as Jesus shows that God loves the Christian by first by loving us—to His own death, even while we were still sinners. So the law doesn’t enable Christians to be lovable—but it does help the (already) beloved—those who believe on Jesus already, to better love God and others.

Therefore the purpose of morality—compared to other religions—is turned on its head—in that it is a response to salvation....NOT an attempt to earn it.


20 posted on 11/30/2011 12:42:55 PM PST by AnalogReigns (because REALITY is never digital...)
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