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Catholic Church Will Now Teach Us How to Handle Sex Abuse
The Philly Post ^ | 11/30/2011 | Paul Davies

Posted on 11/30/2011 1:52:20 PM PST by Alex Murphy

With all due respect, Pope Benedict XVI either lives in an alternate reality or needs better PR handlers. His comments over the weekend to U.S. bishops about the sex abuse of children showed a continued disconnect with the church’s mishandling of this ongoing scandal. The pope referenced the church’s “conscientious effort” to confront sex abuse by priests.

Uh? Perhaps the pope meant to say conscientious cover-up.

No institution has done more to deny and downplay the sexual abuse of young boys than the Catholic Church. No institution has done more to discredit victims and protect pedophile priests than the Catholic Church. And no institution has done more to avoid accountability for decisions made at the highest levels to cover up decades of sexual abuse of boys by scores of priests.

After decades of denial, it is really stunning for the pope to talk about the church’s “conscientious effort” to confront this scandal. At best, there have been some half steps brought on mainly by legal actions. If anything, the church has orchestrated a conscientious effort to minimize the scandal and hide behind any legal statute of limitations. But most everyone—including many Catholics like myself—is still waiting for church leaders to root out all the problem priests and hold others accountable for the cover-up.

The pope is right that all of society’s institutions—not just the Catholic Church—must be held to “exacting” standards in their response to sex abuse of children. He correctly called pedophilia a “scourge.” But then the pope had the gall to hold up the church as an example for how to confront the problem.

“It is my hope that the Church’s conscientious efforts to confront this reality will help the broader community to recognize the causes, true extent and devastating consequences of sexual abuse, and to respond effectively to this scourge which affects every level of society,” he said.

If other institutions follow the church’s lead regarding the handling of sex abuse by priests, well, then heaven help us all. David Clohessy, head of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, said: “No public figure talks more about child safety but does little to actually make children safer than Pope Benedict.”

Of course, one can’t help but feel the pope’s recent comments were timed to coincide with the sex-abuse scandal at Penn State. In a sense he was saying: “See, the church isn’t the only institution with a pedophile problem.” At Penn State, former defensive football coordinator Jerry Sandusky has been charged with sexually abusing eight boys over a number of years. Some have said the two scandals are similar because of the cover-up that reached the top echelon of two esteemed institutions.

But that is also where the similarities end. Unlike the Catholic Church, Penn State has taken swift and decisive action, with more likely to come. Days after Sandusky’s indictment, university president Graham Spanier was forced out and legendary coach Joe Paterno was fired. Granted the university, like the church, initially did its best to cover up the abuse. But unlike the church, once the allegations came to light there were no excuses or denials or efforts to blame the media by the university trustees. Instead there has been real accountability. Those not charged with crimes were removed from power because they failed to alert law enforcement. Including JoePa, the proverbial pope of Penn State.

“The church to this day, while waving a moral flag, hasn’t even come close to the Penn State Board of Trustees response,” said Kristine Ward, chair of the National Survivor Advocates Coalition. She pointed out that no bishops have been fired. “Issuing self-satisfied pats on the back while children remain in danger only further diminishes the church’s credibility and deepens the laryngitis in its moral voice.”

The pope is correct that child sex abuse isn’t limited to the church. But no one has said as much. The reason so much attention has been paid to the church is because of the Vatican’s supposed moral authority; the abuse stretched around the world; and the cover-up was extensive. “While child sex crimes happen in every institution, in no institution are they ignored or concealed as consistently as in the Catholic Church,” Clohessy said.

Not even at Penn State.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: catholic; childabuse; homosexualpriests; pederast; pederastpriests; pederasts; pederasty; pennstate; popebenedictxvi; rcc; romancatholic; usccb
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With all due respect, Pope Benedict XVI either lives in an alternate reality or needs better PR handlers....No institution has done more to deny and downplay the sexual abuse of young boys than the Catholic Church. No institution has done more to discredit victims and protect pedophile priests than the Catholic Church. And no institution has done more to avoid accountability for decisions made at the highest levels to cover up decades of sexual abuse of boys by scores of priests....

....At best, there have been some half steps brought on mainly by legal actions. If anything, the church has orchestrated a conscientious effort to minimize the scandal and hide behind any legal statute of limitations. But most everyone—including many Catholics like myself—is still waiting for church leaders to root out all the problem priests and hold others accountable for the cover-up. The pope is right that all of society’s institutions—not just the Catholic Church—must be held to “exacting” standards in their response to sex abuse of children. He correctly called pedophilia a “scourge.” But then the pope had the gall to hold up the church as an example for how to confront the problem....

....The pope is correct that child sex abuse isn’t limited to the church. But no one has said as much. The reason so much attention has been paid to the church is because of the Vatican’s supposed moral authority; the abuse stretched around the world; and the cover-up was extensive. “While child sex crimes happen in every institution, in no institution are they ignored or concealed as consistently as in the Catholic Church,” Clohessy said.

1 posted on 11/30/2011 1:52:26 PM PST by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy



2 posted on 11/30/2011 1:56:43 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS! This means liberals AND libertarians (same thing) NO LIBS!)
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To: Alex Murphy

I’ll bet he puts the Christian Brothers right on it


3 posted on 11/30/2011 1:57:04 PM PST by molson209
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To: Alex Murphy
Penn State has taken swift and decisive action

And the writer thinks the pope lives in an alternate reality?

4 posted on 11/30/2011 2:05:59 PM PST by Darkwolf377 (Obama: The stupid person`s idea of a smart person.)
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To: Responsibility2nd
"Why didn't they just move him to another school?"

ROTFLMAO!

5 posted on 11/30/2011 2:12:01 PM PST by Alex Murphy (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2703506/posts?page=518#518)
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To: molson209

This Pope is a “Pitbull” when it comes to sex abuse. That’s why gay groups hate him.


6 posted on 11/30/2011 2:12:56 PM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: Darkwolf377; Alex Murphy

The only person who acted correctly in this case with any authority was Joe Paterno.

Shortly after Sandusky admitted to showering with boys, Joe Paterno removed him from his post at the football program.

University policy granted Sandusky his tenure status and allowed him to continue to abuse children for the next 12 years, with the consent of the President and the Board of Regents.


7 posted on 11/30/2011 2:14:26 PM PST by rwilson99 (Please tell me how the words "shall not perish and have everlasting life" would NOT apply to Mary.)
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To: Alex Murphy
Unlike the Catholic Church, Penn State has taken swift and decisive action, with more likely to come.

That's right Alex. For example, before the Penn State pedophilia scandal became public, they purchased a whole bunch of .xxx domain names.

Penn State Bought Adult Domain Names to Block Usage Prior to Sex Abuse Scandal (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2814307/posts).

Swift and decisive action!

8 posted on 11/30/2011 2:15:48 PM PST by kidd
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To: massgopguy; Alex Murphy

This Pope is a “Pitbull” when it comes to sex abuse
9 posted on 11/30/2011 2:28:19 PM PST by Cardhu
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To: rwilson99
According to Joe Paterno, he had no knowledge of the 1998 event that PERHAPS led to Sandusky being removed in 1999.

He DID have knowledge of the 2002 incident of the observed anal rape of a male child who looked 10 years old.

Almost ten years later, under the full view of Paterno, who knew of AT LEAST ONE incident, and according to you TWO; Sandusky was still running around Penn State with young boys in tow.

And you have the temerity to suggest that Paterno acted correctly?

10 posted on 11/30/2011 2:34:03 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: Alex Murphy

“No institution has done more to deny and downplay the sexual abuse of young boys than the Catholic Church. No institution has done more to discredit victims and protect pedophile priests than the Catholic Church. And no institution has done more to avoid accountability for decisions made at the highest levels to cover up decades of sexual abuse of boys by scores of priests.”

This is a complete lie....we have the Franklin Cover-Up and the Penn State coverup over a decade (and maybe since the 70’s). The difference is the “deep” pockets of the Catholic Church and their Moral foundation—they know and accept the fact that pederasty is deeply evil—unlike the secular/pagan world which embraced homosexuality and pederasty for thousands of years and revered abnormal sex as “good”.

The Catholic Church dares to condemn homosexuality and pederasty—unlike many Protestant Churches today. The Slippery Slope is that homosexual acts are learned and modeled—homosexual societies have pederasty. It is necessary to corrupt and pervert the young while forming worldview.

Christianity is trying to be eliminated by humanist/secularists because they want to bring back pederasty/homosexuality as a “good”.

The Catholic Church has been infiltrated by Satan—it is true—but they still call sin a sin, unlike most of the pagan/secular/humanists who defy nature and God’s Laws—so ANYTHING will be ok if a person has the “urge”.

The Catholic Church has been hampered by APA and “hate speech” and they try to dance that fine impossible line (homosexuals are not evil—it is the “act” nonsense)-—They need to QUIT this nonsense and fight and rid themselves of the corruption in their ranks. I think they know this, but the corruption within the Church runs pretty deep with all the humanist/secular Jesuits who contaminated minds of many they “educated”.

Pederasty was rife with Hollywood producers—Corey Feldman claims-—and nothing—no names===nothing but protection of these pederasts. These pederasts create shows like Glee to normalize immorality and promote their (im) morality which includes child sex. Where is the outrage and names of the producers????????

We fight for Afghani’s who sodomize boys. Why would we fight to “protect” and rebuild such a corrupt, evil culture. This is the worldview of many of our University elites though—the Billy Ayers—the homosexual advocates—who even realize that promoting homosexuality as “good” in a society always means child abuse-—ALWAYS. But that is Marxist ideology—the destruction of the natural family-—so they will be easily able to make slaves out of the unprotected minds and bodies of the children. Only biological family unit is the safest and best and most natural way to bring up children...nothing else will create normal, natural thinking and logic and common sense.

At least the Catholic Church acknowledges the evil of pederasty and homosexulity. The secular humanists/pagans/Marxists hate the Church for this and their is a war to destroy the Catholic Church since Voltaire.

The Catholic Church is was rid the Western Civilization of the idea that pederasty and homosexuality was a “good”....and that has creeped into Africa and Asia and the colonies—where pederasty was rife.


11 posted on 11/30/2011 2:35:32 PM PST by savagesusie
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To: massgopguy; Alex Murphy
From Catholic News Service, May 3, 2010:

“Legionaries of Christ In Wake of Scandal”

“In early 2009, the Legionaries said that Father Maciel had fathered a daughter; more recently, Legionary officials acknowledged that he had sexually abused seminarians, and they asked forgiveness for failing to listen to his accusers.”

This last paragraph tells only a bit of the story. The scandal was covered up for decades, it was not a secret among officials in the ‘Legion’.
And now the so-called investigation is a timid and averting of official eyes from the unpleasant truth.

Real pit bull...with sharp gums.

12 posted on 11/30/2011 2:44:14 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: allmendream

Joe Paterno did what was within his control at PSU.

He removed Sandusky as Defensive Coordinator in 1999. He reported future behavior to people with the authority to address it.

If Paterno is guilty, so is the Governor of PA. Who started the investigation of Sandusky as AG last year, and after taking the office of Governor allowed him to continue hanging around campus for months before the indictments came along.

The major point is that instead of having a conversation about the concept of tenure and if it should be extended to people who engage in misconduct with children, and having a conversation about a board of regents who brought on a School President who studied ‘wife-swapping’ and ‘swinging.’

Instead people follow the meme that lazy jounalists and other useful idiot tools of the MSM created... that Sandusky’s abuse of children is all about Joe Paterno and the Catholic church.


13 posted on 11/30/2011 2:49:25 PM PST by rwilson99 (Please tell me how the words "shall not perish and have everlasting life" would NOT apply to Mary.)
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To: Alex Murphy
Hmmmm.



14 posted on 11/30/2011 3:05:50 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: molson209
They should’ve stuck with the brandy making and stayed out of the orphanage business. $25-$26 million would buy a lot of grapes.
15 posted on 11/30/2011 3:16:59 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Salvation

Great reference site, thanks for posting.


16 posted on 11/30/2011 3:21:40 PM PST by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: Sergio; NYer

Thanks really goes to NYer. I borrowed it from a posting somewhere else.


17 posted on 11/30/2011 3:27:27 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: savagesusie
The Catholic Church dares to condemn homosexuality and pederasty—unlike many Protestant Churches today.

I'm guessing that someone didn't get the memo:
Gay Episcopal Bishop to Preach at San Francisco Catholic Parish
German Catholic Church resolves to sell their Porn Publishing company after story goes mainstream
Pope accepts resignation of Cardinal Bernard Law from Vatican post (Catholic Caucus)

18 posted on 11/30/2011 3:32:23 PM PST by Alex Murphy (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2703506/posts?page=518#518)
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To: Alex Murphy

Hey alex........here are some facts for you..... the protestent church ( baptist, lutheran, protestant, charismatic, episcopal, and so on ) have more documented cases of child abuse than the catholic.... why do I mention such evil??? because the real evil lies in those that do not look in the mirror.... the catholic church has established a clearinghouse for lazy reporters and catholic bashers, like yourself, to find easy prey... why is it so hard to find this info on the non catholic christian churches??? because they bury it and do not let it out... wanna cast stones, look in the mirror first, enabeler of evil...


19 posted on 11/30/2011 3:33:19 PM PST by joe fonebone (Project Gunwalker, this will make watergate look like the warm up band......)
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To: joe fonebone
Hey alex........here are some facts for you..... the protestent church ( baptist, lutheran, protestant, charismatic, episcopal, and so on ) have more documented cases of child abuse than the catholic....why is it so hard to find this info on the non catholic christian churches??? because they bury it and do not let it out...

Which is it? If it's "so hard to find", and someone knows where this "hard to find info" is "buried", perhaps someone could prove the allegation and actually cite these "documented" cases?

And the burden of proof rests entirely on the word "more".

20 posted on 11/30/2011 3:43:28 PM PST by Alex Murphy (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2703506/posts?page=518#518)
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To: joe fonebone

One fact is that catholic countries are the ones that are socialist and socialists have desire for young boys. So I am not surprised that the Catholic church is involved in these things. Tell me why Catholics have this love for socialism.


21 posted on 11/30/2011 4:00:02 PM PST by JimWayne
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To: Salvation
Did you happen to notice a huge difference while reading about the crimes of "non-catholic clergy abuses"?

The Non-Catholic Clergy accused of abuse were ARRESTED for their crimes unlike the Catholic Clergy accused who were shuffled to different parishes to continue their behavior and the victim and/or their parents were paid off to keep quiet!

22 posted on 11/30/2011 4:05:49 PM PST by 2nd amendment mama ( www.2asisters.org | Self defense is a basic human right!)
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: Alex Murphy; lilyramone; crusadersoldier; Ellzeena; Anvilhead; stonehouse01; Goreknowshowtocheat; ..
‘Passing the trash’

Too often, problem teachers are allowed to leave quietly. That can mean future abuse for another student and another school district.

“They might deal with it internally, suspending the person or having the person move on. So their license is never investigated,” says Charol Shakeshaft, a leading expert in teacher sex abuse who heads the educational leadership department at Virginia Commonwealth University.

It’s a dynamic so common it has its own nicknames—“passing the trash” or the “mobile molester.”

Laws in several states require that even an allegation of sexual misconduct be reported to the state departments that oversee teacher licenses. But there’s no consistent enforcement, so such laws are easy to ignore.

School officials fear public embarrassment as much as the perpetrators do, Shakeshaft says. They want to avoid the fallout from going up against a popular teacher. They also don’t want to get sued by teachers or victims, and they don’t want to face a challenge from a strong union.


24 posted on 11/30/2011 4:15:23 PM PST by narses (what you bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and what you loose upon earth, shall be ..)
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To: Alex Murphy; lilyramone; crusadersoldier; Ellzeena; Anvilhead; stonehouse01; Goreknowshowtocheat; ..
‘Passing the trash’

Too often, problem teachers are allowed to leave quietly. That can mean future abuse for another student and another school district.

“They might deal with it internally, suspending the person or having the person move on. So their license is never investigated,” says Charol Shakeshaft, a leading expert in teacher sex abuse who heads the educational leadership department at Virginia Commonwealth University.

It’s a dynamic so common it has its own nicknames—“passing the trash” or the “mobile molester.”

Laws in several states require that even an allegation of sexual misconduct be reported to the state departments that oversee teacher licenses. But there’s no consistent enforcement, so such laws are easy to ignore.

School officials fear public embarrassment as much as the perpetrators do, Shakeshaft says. They want to avoid the fallout from going up against a popular teacher. They also don’t want to get sued by teachers or victims, and they don’t want to face a challenge from a strong union.


25 posted on 11/30/2011 4:15:40 PM PST by narses (what you bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and what you loose upon earth, shall be ..)
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To: 2nd amendment mama

Some were arrested, as were some of the priests. Like school teachers, boy scout leaders, college coaches and the many, many others that abuse children though, many were passed around. See the article above.

That said, if they would just let those teachers, coaches, protestant ministers get married, this tragedy could have been avoided, right?


26 posted on 11/30/2011 4:18:40 PM PST by narses (what you bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and what you loose upon earth, shall be ..)
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: joe fonebone; Alex Murphy
Since there is about ten times as many Protestant clergymen in the U.S. as Catholic priests it would seem the actual numbers would be higher amongst Protestant clergymen.

The useful question would be the rates compared.

And if you're going to call anyone “enabler of evil” you won't have to look far since so many of the bishops covered and even gave recommendations to priests they knew were abusers.

“lazy reporters and catholic bashers”? It took them (like the Boston Globe for one) to do what the Catholic leaders would not and fought every effort to accomplish by others, that is expose the serial child molesters.

28 posted on 11/30/2011 4:28:35 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Salvation; NYer

Oh...well thanks to you both then!


29 posted on 11/30/2011 4:41:46 PM PST by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: Responsibility2nd

That cartoon kills two birds with one stone by misrepresenting both the Catholic Church abuse scandal and the Penn State abuse scandal.


30 posted on 11/30/2011 4:42:37 PM PST by WPaCon
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To: Alex Murphy
I'm guessing that someone didn't get the memo:

sure we did, but you must learn to differentiate between the Catholic church and individual Catholic parishes. Are the weak people within the church?, of course there are, we are all human. Is the Catholic church itself weak or evil?, of course not. Remember, when a priest is involved in this sort of thing, suit comes against the Catholic archdiocese, when the accused is a protestant minister, your only recourse is against his local congregation.....not much money there except for insurance!

31 posted on 11/30/2011 4:45:23 PM PST by terycarl (lurking, but well informed)
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To: JimWayne
One fact is that catholic countries are the ones that are socialist

With countries like Sweden and North Korea being particularly devoutly Catholic...

32 posted on 11/30/2011 4:49:32 PM PST by WPaCon
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To: count-your-change
And now the so-called investigation is a timid and averting of official eyes from the unpleasant truth.

"So-called investigation" of what, Maciel? Are you kidding?

The LC's have been basically put under the direct supervision of the Vatican, after an "Apostolic visitation" (which is a euphemism for a official investigation). That doesn't sound like "a timid and [sic] averting of official eyes" to me. Sounds more like a takeover by the head office.

Here's what Wikipedia has to say about it:

On May 1, 2010 the Vatican said that the Pope will name a delegate and appoint a commission to review the Legionaries of Christ following revelations that the order's founder sexually abused numerous underage seminarians and fathered at least three children with two women. In a statement, the Vatican denounced the Rev. Marciel Maciel for creating a "system of power" that enabled him to lead an "immoral" double life "devoid of scruples and authentic religious sentiment" and allowed him to abuse young boys for decades unchecked. The Vatican issued the statement after Pope Benedict XVI met with five bishops who investigated the Legion to determine its future.[31] The Vatican statement was remarkable in its tough denunciation of Maciel's crimes and deception.
The "very serious and objectively immoral acts" of Fr. Marcial Maciel, which were "confirmed by incontrovertible testimonies" represent "true crimes and manifest a life without scruples or authentic religious sentiment," the Vatican said.[33] The Vatican said the Legion created a "mechanism of defense" around Maciel to shield him from accusations and suppress damaging witnesses from reporting abuse. "It made him untouchable," the Vatican said. The statement decried "the lamentable disgracing and expulsion of those who doubted" Maciel's virtue. The Vatican statement did not address whether the Legion's current leadership will face any sanctions.[34] Actions taken by the current Legion leadership will be scrutinized; but no specific sanctions were mentioned, amid suspicion that at least some of the current leaders must have been aware of Maciel's sins. The Vatican acknowledged the "hardships" faced by Maciel's accusers through the years when they were ostracized or ridiculed, and commended their "courage and perseverance to demand the truth."[35]
That doesn't sound very "timid" to me.
33 posted on 11/30/2011 5:37:19 PM PST by Campion ("It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins." -- Franklin)
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To: count-your-change

the catholic church has set up a clearinghouse, to document this evil that exists.....where is the protestent clearinghouse???? the catholics are addressing this (albeit slowly, but addressing it nontheless )where is the protestant clearinghouse, and what are they doing about the evil that exists in their congregations? answer is plain, NOTHING.......it is far easier to deflect than to accept, it would appear


34 posted on 11/30/2011 5:40:54 PM PST by joe fonebone (Project Gunwalker, this will make watergate look like the warm up band......)
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To: count-your-change
It took them (like the Boston Globe for one) to do what the Catholic leaders would not and fought every effort to accomplish by others, that is expose the serial child molesters.

The Globe had no problem with some of those same molesters when they were heroic and charismatic "gay" priests standing up against the wicked and homophobic Roman hierarchy.

Just like they have no problem now with homosexual pederasty. They only find it convenient to be indignant about it when they can use it to take down the Catholic Church a notch. Google "Boston Globe" and "Gerry Studds" sometime. Congressmen who molest 17-year-old boys are heroes to the Globe.

35 posted on 11/30/2011 5:43:18 PM PST by Campion ("It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins." -- Franklin)
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To: Campion

O.K., the Catholic leadership is at least on a moral level of the Boston Globe. Still, what would have been the case without the Globe? It seems the “tax collectors and harlots” are going ahead of them.


36 posted on 11/30/2011 6:29:24 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: joe fonebone

“the catholic church has set up a clearinghouse, to document this evil that exists..”

I doubt the bishops and priests involved in the doing and covering up the abuse need documentation and for certain the victims do not.

If the Catholic church is the apostolic and true church of Christ should it not be held to a higher standard than the heretical and schismatic Protestants? Won’t more be demanded from those who were put in charge of much according to the rule stated at Matt. 12:48?

No deflecting now.


37 posted on 11/30/2011 7:14:07 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: joe fonebone; Alex Murphy

Just for the record, there is no such “corporate” body known as “the protestant church”.

Also for the record, “charistmatic” wasn’t even around at the time of the reformation, and many “baptistic” groups weren’t part of that historic reformation.

Also, in America any yardbird can hang out a sign and call himself a pastor, evangelist, youth leader, teacher, etc., and since the ignorant definition of “protestant” used by the uninformed in this country is usually “anything that isn’t Roman Catholic or Orthodox”, then in America any numbers you might have seen are so seriously flawed that it isn’t even worth discussing.


38 posted on 11/30/2011 7:25:02 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True Supporters of our Troops PRAY for their VICTORY!)
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To: Campion
Tough talk indeed. We're foursquare against sin and in favor of virtue but as Cardinal DePaolis says there are some things too private for him to investigate and since he really needs the Legion's leadership, they won't be removed.....well it just sounds a bit timid given the complaints that were ignored for so long a time.

“The Vatican statement was remarkable in its tough denunciation of Maciel’s crimes and deception.” I'll skip the large letters, thank you.

Of course now that the stench has reached the noses of the public after Maciel is dead. And what of the enablers? Those who let the wolves feed on their sheep?

No, I'm not kidding, not at all.

39 posted on 11/30/2011 7:30:28 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Campion
Tough talk indeed. We're foursquare against sin and in favor of virtue but as Cardinal DePaolis says there are some things too private for him to investigate and since he really needs the Legion's leadership, they won't be removed.....well it just sounds a bit timid given the complaints that were ignored for so long a time.

“The Vatican statement was remarkable in its tough denunciation of Maciel’s crimes and deception.” I'll skip the large letters, thank you.

Of course now that the stench has reached the noses of the public after Maciel is dead. And what of the enablers? Those who let the wolves feed on their sheep?

No, I'm not kidding, not at all.

40 posted on 11/30/2011 7:32:16 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

So what perfect denomination do you recommend?


41 posted on 11/30/2011 8:44:19 PM PST by narses (what you bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and what you loose upon earth, shall be ..)
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To: Alex Murphy

Good better best. Sometimes better will do.

It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.

Luke 17:2


42 posted on 11/30/2011 8:51:38 PM PST by ThomasThomas ( If you can't laugh at your self, I will for you.)
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To: JimWayne
Tell me why Catholics have this love for socialism.

They don't. Leo XIII's letter on socialism (1878)
From the first paragraph:

We speak of that sect of men who, under various and almost barbarous names, are called socialists, communists, or nihilists, and who, spread over all the world, and bound together by the closest ties in a wicked confederacy, ... strive to bring to a head what they have long been planning - the overthrow of all civil society whatsoever.
And from further on:
For, "the church of the living God, which is the pillar and ground of truth,"(1 Tim. 3:15) hands down those doctrines and precepts whose special object is the safety and peace of society and the uprooting of the evil growth of socialism.
And one more quote:
But Catholic wisdom, sustained by the precepts of natural and divine law, provides with especial care for public and private tranquility in its doctrines and teachings regarding the duty of government and the distribution of the goods which are necessary for life and use. For, while the socialists would destroy the "right" of property, alleging it to be a human invention altogether opposed to the inborn equality of man, and, claiming a community of goods, argue that poverty should not be peaceably endured, and that the property and privileges of the rich may be rightly invaded, the Church, with much greater wisdom and good sense, recognizes the inequality among men, who are born with different powers of body and mind, inequality in actual possession, also, and holds that the right of property and of ownership, which springs from nature itself, must not be touched and stands inviolate. For she knows that stealing and robbery were forbidden in so special a manner by God, the Author and Defender of right, that He would not allow man even to desire what belonged to another, and that thieves and despoilers, no less than adulterers and idolaters, are shut out from the Kingdom of Heaven.

43 posted on 11/30/2011 9:17:35 PM PST by ELS (Vivat Benedictus XVI!)
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To: count-your-change

So what perfect denomination do you recommend?

So what perfect denomination do you recommend?


44 posted on 11/30/2011 9:34:26 PM PST by narses (what you bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and what you loose upon earth, shall be ..)
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To: narses

Perfection in the sense you question implies doesn’t exist with humans so the question is pointless.

But I do believe what Jesus said about the kingdom being given to the nation that produced its fruits.

Remember Jesus said the kingdom was going to be taken from a nation that had holy writings, long established tradition, promises from God, a beautiful temple, a priesthood that offered sacrifices, holy men and prophets.

And yet none of that prevented Jerusalem’s destruction in 70 A.D. with the majority of it’s inhabitants.

Those leaving before this happened weren’t perfect but they did obey Jesus’ command in that interval between warning being given and escape being closed off.


45 posted on 11/30/2011 11:45:42 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
Perfection in the sense you question implies doesn’t exist with humans so the question is pointless.
Really? Then what do you mean by:
But I do believe what Jesus said about the kingdom being given to the nation that produced its fruits.
So what "kingdom" are you claiming Roman Catholics fail of, and what denomination succeeds? Jehovah's Witness?
46 posted on 12/01/2011 5:54:31 AM PST by narses (what you bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and what you loose upon earth, shall be ..)
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To: narses
Your question amazes me, truly it does!

“So what “kingdom” are you claiming Roman Catholics fail of,....”

Why...What kingdom do you pray for? (Let your kingdom come) What kingdom is good news to be preached in the whole world?

“...what denomination succeeds?”

Succeeds? At what? Charitable works, gains in membership? Money? Evangelism? Chrystal Cathedrals? In following Jesus’ commandments and example?

If that ancient nation of Israel had all the attributes I mentioned earlier why were they NOT a success? What were they supposed to do as a nation (since the “You” Jesus used was plural) and yet did not do?

If you cannot say what “success” is how on earth....I'm just amazed that you ask the question of me instead of yourself, of the Scriptures

“Jehovah's Witness?”

No perfection there either, of that I'm certain. And I don't, never have here, make recommendations of what group or denomination a person ought to associate with. Nor have I ever suggested anyone leave any group.

47 posted on 12/01/2011 8:10:59 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Alex Murphy

Ah, still at it I see.


48 posted on 12/01/2011 10:44:23 AM PST by Jaded (Really? Seriously?)
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To: Alex Murphy

Penn State took swift action? LOL!

That might be the funniest thing I read today.

Okay - Obama’s comments about Israel were funnier - this is a close second.


49 posted on 12/01/2011 4:47:16 PM PST by Scotswife
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To: count-your-change
And I don't, never have here, make recommendations of what group or denomination a person ought to associate with. Nor have I ever suggested anyone leave any group.
Lukewarm are you? No denomination to call your own or simply unwilling to be held to scrutiny?
50 posted on 12/01/2011 5:58:52 PM PST by narses (what you bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and what you loose upon earth, shall be ..)
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