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Following the Truth: Satan’s Attack On The Church – What You Can Do! (Catholic or Open)
CatholicLane.com ^ | Feb 22, 2011 | Gary Zimak

Posted on 12/01/2011 8:07:57 AM PST by Salvation

Satan’s Attack On The Church – What You Can Do!

“The Catholic Church —  and I am a life-long member — has disgraced itself beyond belief. If evidence should be revealed that a Cardinal was implicit in this cover-up, he should be indicted. I’m having trepidation as I prepare to attend Mass this morning. I’m afraid that if my pastor reads The Cardinal’s BS letter, I shall have to walk out and, maybe, forever!”

“As someone who has left the perverse Catholic Church I can only urge all to boycott this corrupt religion. The very fact they are ‘celibate’ attracts pedophiles and homosexuals to the order. Catholicism is inherently flawed and evil because of this. Look to other Christian faiths for true religion.”

-online comments to February 2011 Philadelphia Inquirer articles about the priestly abuse investigation.

As a Catholic evangelist, it is impossible for me to ignore the damage caused by the priestly abuse crisis.  It is the type of story embraced by the mainstream media and a favorite “water cooler” conversation at the office.  As evidenced by the above quotes, the fallout from this tragedy has shaken people’s faith, caused them to stop donating to the Church or, in some cases, to leave the Catholic Church entirely.  As demonstrated by the recent news coming out of Philadelphia, it is a story that will not die.  If we take Jesus at His word, we know that the Church will never disappear (Mt 16:18), but there is no doubt that she is being damaged.  As Catholics, what can (and should) we do in defense of our Church? 

As ludicrous as it sounds, I propose that we start by getting to know Satan!  In understanding who he is and what his goals are, we’ll be able to better defend against his attacks on our Catholic Church.  No matter what you may hear or read, the devil is very much involved in all of the evil that is taking place in the Church.

Scripture tells us clearly that Satan is a liar (Gen 3:4-5, Lk 4:6, Jn 8:44).  While not able to force us to sin, he will use any means to convince us to do evil.  He even had the audacity to use Scripture (Mt 4:6) when trying to tempt Jesus!  The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) describes him as “the one who throws himself across God’s plan and His work of salvation accomplished in Christ (CCC 2851)”.  As a lover of evil, what does Satan enjoy?

He loves when babies are murdered through abortion.  He especially enjoys the fact that he fools people into thinking that killing the unborn is a “choice.”  He rejoices when he convinces men and women to sin mortally by looking at pornography.  It’s even more of a joy to him when the sin results in the breakup of a family.  Speaking of families, Satan is overjoyed when he sees divorce and child abuse.  All kinds of crime, especially murder, make him very happy.  However, nothing thrills the devil more than when he convinces a member of the clergy to sin, especially publicly.  Furthermore, if that sin involves the abuse of a child or homosexuality, that’s even sweeter to Satan.  Perhaps the only thing that could add to his enjoyment is when that sin by an ordained minister leads others to criticize or leave the Church entirely.  That’s exactly what the devil wants.  As someone who wants to stop our salvation, he will do anything he can to ensure we separate ourselves from the vehicle of that salvation, the Church!

Unfortunately, we often play right into his hands and unintentionally help him to damage the Church.  Instead of focusing on the fact that Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church as a necessary vehicle for our salvation, we “bad mouth” and condemn the Church.   We refer to the perpetrators (accused or convicted) as “monsters”, cry for their heads, condemn the bishops for making bad decisions and refuse to contribute to the Church.  We speak and let others speak of the Church as a corrupt organization run by “power hungry” men.  Fueled by our anger and outrage, we fail to realize that our words may cause others to leave the Church, putting their salvation in jeopardy.  When we condemn “The Church”, we fail to recognize that there is a difference between “The Church” and her individual members.  When one of her members (including members of the Church hierarchy) sins, it is not “The Church” who sins, but the individuals!

What then is the correct response to these horrible crimes committed by members of the clergy?  Should it just be ignored?  The first thing we need to remember is that we should not depend on the mainstream media to give us the true story of these Church scandals.  While some of the information is undoubtedly true, often times the accusations are partially or completely false.  What good does it do for us to focus on the alleged details and share them with others?  If the topic arises at the workplace or in our social circles, we could redirect the conversation and state that the Church is a Heavenly institution and was founded by Christ.  Scripture tells us that the Church is the “pillar and foundation of truth” (1 Tm 3:15).  While this means that the Church cannot teach error, it does not mean that the individual members of the Church hierarchy cannot sin.  Until Christ comes again in glory, the Church on earth (including the clergy) is made up of imperfect sinners. We could also remind others that the vast majority of priests and bishops are good, holy men.  Although the media would like us to think otherwise, the percentage of individuals involved in these horrific acts is very small. 

Additionally, we must pray daily for our Catholic clergy.  St. Peter reminds us that “the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for (someone) to devour” (1 Pt 5:8).  If that “someone” is a priest or bishop, that is a special prize to Satan.  If we criticize our clergy without praying for them, shame on us!   

We must also keep in mind that when we criticize the Church (or her clergy), we criticize Christ.  As evidence, I ask you to recall the words of Our Lord to Saul (a.k.a. St. Paul) of Tarsus on the road to Damascus.  Before he went on to be the Apostle to the Gentiles, Saul was a notorious persecutor of Christians.  He didn’t even know Jesus, as evidenced by his question to the Lord, “Who are you, sir?”  Christ’s response should send chills up and down the spine of anyone who speaks negatively about any member of the Church hierarchy, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting” (Acts 9.5).  Outside of the sheer ingratitude of criticizing the Savior of the world, anyone who speaks poorly about Jesus (or His Church) should become familiar with His words in Matthew 10:32-33!

I want to be absolutely clear that I am in no way recommending that we cover up any illegal acts committed by members of the Catholic clergy or ignore the horrible agony experienced by the victims.  If you or someone you know is the victim of abuse by a member of the Catholic clergy, you should immediately report the issue to the police.  However, I am asking you to remember how happy Satan is when the Church is damaged in any way.  The devil hates Jesus, hates the Church and hates everything good.  He despises it when, instead of spreading venomous stories about our Church and her Magisterium, we defend her Divine goodness.  Pray for the clergy, pray for the victims, pray for the Church’s leaders, pray for the any members of the press who distort the truth for publicity.  By doing so you will help to thwart Satan’s efforts to damage the Church…and that’s a GOOD thing!



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic

Gary Zimak is the founder of Following The Truth Ministries (http://www.followingthetruth.com), a lay apostolate created to assist Catholics in learning more about their Faith. He is a regular guest on EWTN Radio’s “Son Rise Morning Show”, Ave Maria Radio’s “Catholic Connection with Teresa Tomeo” and appears frequently on several other Catholic radio programs.  In addition to writing for CatholicLane. Mr. Zimak hosts a daily program on BlogTalkRadio and posts frequently on his blog, Facebook and Twitter.  He is a member of Catholics United For The Faith and the Knights of Columbus and resides in New Jersey.


1 posted on 12/01/2011 8:08:01 AM PST by Salvation
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To: Salvation
We must also keep in mind that when we criticize the Church (or her clergy), we criticize Christ.

Oh, puh-leeze. Christ didn't cover up crimes; certain church officials did. For the latter to shield themselves behind the name of the former borders on blasphemy.

2 posted on 12/01/2011 8:11:42 AM PST by Retro Llama
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To: nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; marshmallow; ...

Catholic Ping!


3 posted on 12/01/2011 8:13:20 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Retro Llama

He references St. Paul on the road to Damascus there. Don’t you read or believe St. Paul’s description of Christ’s words?


4 posted on 12/01/2011 8:14:18 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
following the Truth: Satan’s Attack On The Church – What You Can Do! (Catholic or Open)
Following the Truth: Saying “Y-E-S” to God During Lent (and Advent) [Catholic or Open]
Following the Truth: Spiritual Dryness: “I Don’t Feel Anything!” (Catholic or Open)
Following the Truth: A Biblical Roadmap To The One, True Church (Catholic or Open)

5 posted on 12/01/2011 8:15:32 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Retro Llama

You’re taking that quote out of context. Did you read the article???


6 posted on 12/01/2011 8:16:41 AM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: Salvation

Great post Salvation! Thank you always. God Bless you.


7 posted on 12/01/2011 8:17:18 AM PST by thesaleboat (Pray The Rosary Daily (Our Lady, July 13, 1917))
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To: Salvation
We must also keep in mind that when we criticize the Church (or her clergy), we criticize Christ.

That is not true.

8 posted on 12/01/2011 8:19:59 AM PST by Tribune7 (Perry, Newt, Cain or Santorum)
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To: Retro Llama

***From the article: We must also keep in mind that when we criticize the Church (or her clergy), we criticize Christ.***
“Oh, puh-leeze. Christ didn’t cover up crimes; certain church officials did. For the latter to shield themselves behind the name of the former borders on blasphemy.”

Mr. Zimak is not advocating any coverups it seems to me. Note what he also says:

***I want to be absolutely clear that I am in no way recommending that we cover up any illegal acts committed by members of the Catholic clergy or ignore the horrible agony experienced by the victims. If you or someone you know is the victim of abuse by a member of the Catholic clergy, you should immediately report the issue to the police.***

I think you misunderstood his point.


9 posted on 12/01/2011 8:22:36 AM PST by MichaelCorleone (Stop feeding the beast; if they don't say "Merry Christmas", don't buy.)
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To: thesaleboat

Most welcome.


10 posted on 12/01/2011 8:34:54 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Well, if one considers that Jesus is the rock upon which the true church is built, then there is absolutely no reason to fear Satan. That is actually what it says in Matthew.

Other interpretations will produce different results.


11 posted on 12/01/2011 8:39:27 AM PST by Jack of all Trades (Hold your face to the light, even though for the moment you do not see.)
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To: Salvation

12 posted on 12/01/2011 8:42:31 AM PST by HangnJudge
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To: HangnJudge
Adding to your quote, for I don't think it goes far enough.

RSV:

12
For we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
13 Therefore take the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
15 and having shod your feet with the equipment of the gospel of peace;
16 besides all these, taking the shield of faith, with which you can quench all the flaming darts of the evil one.



13 posted on 12/01/2011 9:00:06 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: HangnJudge

**principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. **

I believe all these words refer to fallen angels and the devil.


14 posted on 12/01/2011 9:02:33 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Jack of all Trades

Jack, that is where you are wrong, the rock is Peter, in Matthew, even prominent non catholic theologians admit this...and any and all attempts to bypass that plain and clear statement by christ to peter, is simply a denial of reality.


15 posted on 12/01/2011 9:05:46 AM PST by raygunfan
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To: Retro Llama
My heart aches for the victims of sexual abuse, especially abuse by the hands of a rabbi, priest or pastor.

Children put their trust in clergy. To have ones innocence stolen in this way leaves the child/adult with a lifetime of emotional struggle.

Many times unable to trust or function within relationships, often leads to all manner of sexual dysfunction to multiple marriages/divorce.

This more times than not translates into a dysfunction in their faith life as well. Feelings of guilt, shame, unworthiness and a warped perception as to who their Lord truly is to them. Some run away from God, never to return.

Folks need to look much deeper into the type of damage something like this causes.

16 posted on 12/01/2011 9:06:48 AM PST by servantboy777
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To: Salvation
Thank you for the correction
I was looking for an appropriate graphic
about this most important subject
It was in no way complete

Reading C.S. Lewis’ discussions on this has permanently modified any illusion that Evil is merely a human issue
The Screwtape Letters
The Space Trilogy
The Narnia Septology
and many other examples

Tear the Veil between Satanic and Human Evil

17 posted on 12/01/2011 9:33:56 AM PST by HangnJudge
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To: Salvation

Oh, Satan is most happy these days, I am sure. We must keep praying.


18 posted on 12/01/2011 9:43:44 AM PST by Bigg Red (Maryland girl on the Cain Train)
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To: Tribune7

The evil within the hearts of men, men in the Church, will never destroy Christ’s Church, but will certainly smear it in most ugly ways, not unlike enemies outside the Church with eveil likewise in their own hearts.

The Church will be cleaned up by those who have faith, hope, and charity in their hearts, be they priests and up or the laity. Jesus will make use of both.

And He has been. Praise Him.

Now, universities and schools and non-profits and other faith ministries will look to the most publicized example for direction as the Church continues to figure out how to protect human dignity and bring Justice as well for the violated.

After the bubonic plague, when 2/3 of priests were dead and 1/3 of Europe, the Church needed priests and there weren’t the seminaries to educate them. This lead to abuses that led Martin Luther to break. The Church began to reflect and clean up its act - leading to seminaries to better teach the faith. Our seminaries broke down in the last century - and our Church is making changes.

Thank You Jesus. Help the violated - both the victims and the wrongly accused.

Faith, Hope, Charity. That’s what we need. The three theological virtures.


19 posted on 12/01/2011 9:50:28 AM PST by If You Want It Fixed - Fix It
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To: raygunfan
Not so:

Google: analysis of matthew 16:18 in the original greek

Jesus is the rock of the church. There can be no other.

20 posted on 12/01/2011 9:52:38 AM PST by Jack of all Trades (Hold your face to the light, even though for the moment you do not see.)
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To: Jack of all Trades

jack, even protestant theologians, well versed in all aspects of greek, as, realize what the text means....

R.T. France says this in his commentary on Matthew, “Verses 17 through 19 are addressed to Peter and have been regarded by some as a late addition to support an early claim to the primacy of the Bishop of Rome. Whether or not they give any such support, there is no textual evidence for their addition to the gospel after its original composition, and the strongly Semitic or Jewish character of the language throughout these verses point to a relatively early origin in a Palestinian environment.” What is France saying? Well, many scholars have suggested that Jesus could not have given this gift to Peter. Jesus could not have given this original saying. Why? Because many scholars don’t believe that Jesus foresaw the building of the Church. They think that all of these sayings of Jesus concerning the Church were added later by the Church to support whatever had happened to the Church.

Dr. France says, “That’s just not tenable.” When you study this you realize that all of the evidence in the text shows that this is one of the original sayings of Jesus. He goes on to say, “Jesus’ beatitude of Peter or His blessing is given to Peter alone. The other disciples may have shared his insight but Peter, characteristically expressed it. Matthew often illustrates Peter’s place at the head of the disciples’ group. He was the spokesman, the pioneer, the natural leader.” He goes on to talk about how Peter is referenced to the Rock. France says, “It describes not so much Peter’s character, that is the Rock. He did not prove to be rock-like in terms of stability or reliability but rather the name Rock or Peter points to his function as the foundation stone of Jesus’ Church.”

RT France continues: The term Peter, Rock, points to Simon and not his character because he could be very unstable, but rather his official function as the foundation stone of Jesus’ Church. The word-play is unmistakable.” He says, “It is only Protestant over-reaction to the Roman Catholic claim, of course, which has no foundation in the text, that what is here said of Peter applies also to the later Bishops of Rome.”

W. F. Albright, in his Anchor Bible Commentary on Matthew. “Peter as the Rock will be the foundation of the future community, the church. Jesus here uses Aramaic and so only the Aramaic word which would serve His purpose. In view of the background in verse 19, one must dismiss as confessional interpretation any attempt to see this rock as the faith or the confession of Peter.”

He continues on: “Isaiah 22, verse 15, undoubtedly lies behind this saying of Jesus. The keys are the symbol of authority and Father Roland DeVoe rightly sees here the same authority vested in the vicar, the master of the house, the chamberlain of the royal household in ancient Israel. In Isaiah 22 Eliakim is described as having the same authority.”

If you need more history lessons, even from your own protestant (sorry, no google), let me know.


21 posted on 12/01/2011 10:00:38 AM PST by raygunfan
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To: Jack of all Trades

jack, even protestant theologians, well versed in all aspects of greek, as, realize what the text means....

R.T. France says this in his commentary on Matthew, “Verses 17 through 19 are addressed to Peter and have been regarded by some as a late addition to support an early claim to the primacy of the Bishop of Rome. Whether or not they give any such support, there is no textual evidence for their addition to the gospel after its original composition, and the strongly Semitic or Jewish character of the language throughout these verses point to a relatively early origin in a Palestinian environment.” What is France saying? Well, many scholars have suggested that Jesus could not have given this gift to Peter. Jesus could not have given this original saying. Why? Because many scholars don’t believe that Jesus foresaw the building of the Church. They think that all of these sayings of Jesus concerning the Church were added later by the Church to support whatever had happened to the Church.

Dr. France says, “That’s just not tenable.” When you study this you realize that all of the evidence in the text shows that this is one of the original sayings of Jesus. He goes on to say, “Jesus’ beatitude of Peter or His blessing is given to Peter alone. The other disciples may have shared his insight but Peter, characteristically expressed it. Matthew often illustrates Peter’s place at the head of the disciples’ group. He was the spokesman, the pioneer, the natural leader.” He goes on to talk about how Peter is referenced to the Rock. France says, “It describes not so much Peter’s character, that is the Rock. He did not prove to be rock-like in terms of stability or reliability but rather the name Rock or Peter points to his function as the foundation stone of Jesus’ Church.”

RT France continues: The term Peter, Rock, points to Simon and not his character because he could be very unstable, but rather his official function as the foundation stone of Jesus’ Church. The word-play is unmistakable.” He says, “It is only Protestant over-reaction to the Roman Catholic claim, of course, which has no foundation in the text, that what is here said of Peter applies also to the later Bishops of Rome.”

W. F. Albright, in his Anchor Bible Commentary on Matthew. “Peter as the Rock will be the foundation of the future community, the church. Jesus here uses Aramaic and so only the Aramaic word which would serve His purpose. In view of the background in verse 19, one must dismiss as confessional interpretation any attempt to see this rock as the faith or the confession of Peter.”

He continues on: “Isaiah 22, verse 15, undoubtedly lies behind this saying of Jesus. The keys are the symbol of authority and Father Roland DeVoe rightly sees here the same authority vested in the vicar, the master of the house, the chamberlain of the royal household in ancient Israel. In Isaiah 22 Eliakim is described as having the same authority.”

If you need more history lessons, even from your own protestants (sorry, no google), let me know.


22 posted on 12/01/2011 10:00:51 AM PST by raygunfan
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To: raygunfan

Thanks, I’m OK, have a great day.


23 posted on 12/01/2011 10:16:05 AM PST by Jack of all Trades (Hold your face to the light, even though for the moment you do not see.)
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To: Jack of all Trades

you too, merry christmas


24 posted on 12/01/2011 10:27:38 AM PST by raygunfan
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To: Salvation
I have to concur with the comments regarding criticizing the clergy. I understand where you were going, and it's a fair statement, but that comment misses the mark. We criticize precisely because the clergy failed to follow Christ. By their actions these clergy have heaped far more criticism on themselves AND the Church than we can ever do by our words. If people perceive us as criticzing Christ, that can't be helped. 'Tis better to publicly trim the dead branches than let the entire tree die.
25 posted on 12/01/2011 10:58:52 AM PST by The Barrister
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To: Jack of all Trades

Yes so.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/peter-the-rock


26 posted on 12/01/2011 10:59:15 AM PST by The Barrister
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To: Salvation

The American bishops (with a few exceptions) have been in de facto schism for 50 years. That couldn’t have happened without the knowledge and consent of the laity. So we must pray for both clergy and laity, and we must call out the bishops’ transgressions when necessary. For example, I still am absolutely shocked that more Catholics aren’t raising the alarm about Catholic Campaign for Human Development. The bishops are getting away with spending millions on leftist, anti-Catholic causes and few lay people seem to care. http://www.reformcchdnow.com/


27 posted on 12/01/2011 11:09:56 AM PST by schmootman
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To: The Barrister

Thanks, I’ll take my chances with Jesus as the corner stone, as Peter himself described. All believers are the priesthood, and the Holy Spirit is the infallible guide.


28 posted on 12/01/2011 1:29:04 PM PST by Jack of all Trades (Hold your face to the light, even though for the moment you do not see.)
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To: Jack of all Trades
Jack, sometimes the anti-Catholic-Church explanation for the Greek words used for "rock" in Matthew 16:18 is that two different Greek terms are used there, "Petros" and "petra". However, the original words spoken by Jesus would have been spoken by Our Lord using the "Aramaic" language, where there are not two separate terms for "rock" like that, only one -- "Kepha". (He would have said, "You are Kepha, and upon this kepha I will build my Church".)

I would recommend a great book that I've found very helpful myself in my own faith journey, called "Catholicism and Fundamentalism - The Attack on 'Romanism' by 'Bible Christians'", by Karl Keating. (See Chapter 17 on "Peter and the Papacy".)

Best wishes.
29 posted on 12/01/2011 3:52:02 PM PST by Heart-Rest
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To: HangnJudge

You said it, Your Honor.


30 posted on 12/01/2011 4:13:42 PM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Salvation
Thanks for posting this interesting article.

Most reliable sources cite that less than 1% of Catholic priests worldwide have credible "sexual predator" claims against them. That is roughly the same percentage of "bad" priests in the world as the numerical percentage Judas Iscariot (who Jesus also called) was to all the 12 apostles.
31 posted on 12/01/2011 4:17:04 PM PST by Heart-Rest (The church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth. (1 Timothy 3:15))
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To: HangnJudge

The evil spirits are everywhere and those who say stupidity such as “It’s all good” are Satan’s personal favorites. When people started to ignore evil or accept evil under the veil of “tolerance”, things got very dangerous for the righteous and the good.

Yes, there is a right and a wrong and being righteous is good.

When those dopey “philosophers” eg Emmanuel Kant started that Beyond Good and Evil garbage, they were being used as Satan’s tools


32 posted on 12/01/2011 4:18:50 PM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: The Barrister

oooops...

I should have read the article at your link before my post "29"...

33 posted on 12/01/2011 4:40:21 PM PST by Heart-Rest (The church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth. (1 Timothy 3:15))
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To: Heart-Rest

Regardless of what denomination it is, when a clergy of the Christian faith does something horribly immoral, it hurts all of us Christians.

God bless you and may He comfort you in His real and true presence. Even though I’m not Catholic, I hurt for my Catholic brothers and sisters in the faith over this.


34 posted on 12/01/2011 5:52:41 PM PST by Country Gal
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To: Country Gal
Thanks Country Girl.

God bless and comfort you too.

I agree that these kinds of things are very sad and painful, no matter what individual is doing them, or what organization they belong to.

I believe that some day all these kinds of horrors will completely end everywhere, in all organizations.

Take care.
35 posted on 12/01/2011 6:16:15 PM PST by Heart-Rest (The church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth. (1 Timothy 3:15))
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To: Salvation


"...who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world, and through all time;"
 
"I HAVE SWORN UPON THE ALTAR OF GOD ETERNAL HOSTILITY TO EVERY FORM OF TYRANNY OVER THE MIND OF MAN"
--The Virginia Act For Establishing Religious Freedom
--Thomas Jefferson, 1786
 

36 posted on 12/01/2011 8:51:58 PM PST by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
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To: Salvation
We must also keep in mind that when we criticize the Church (or her clergy), we criticize Christ.

I think Gary is seriously wrong here. While there's probably a sense in which it's wrong to criticize the church per se, it certainly isn't wrong to criticize particular members of the clergy when correction is warranted. In fact, it may be our duty as confirmed Catholics to do so in some circumstances.

It's rather odd that Gary cites St. Paul's conversion as his prooftext, because the same St. Paul went on to criticize St. Peter "to his face" for refusing table fellowship to Gentile believers in order to placate Jewish ones -- not only that, but he then goes on to recount the incident in the pages of Scripture (Galatians ch 2)!

I'm also reminded of St. Catherine of Siena who -- very respectfully and lovingly, but also very clearly -- told the Pope of her time that he belonged in Rome, not Avignon. She was neither a cleric nor even especially very educated. She was, however, right.

37 posted on 12/01/2011 9:17:30 PM PST by Campion ("It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins." -- Franklin)
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To: raygunfan
Matthew Chapter 16

18 And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. [Return to Original Document]

Parallel

RSV 18: And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

NRSV 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

Douay 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. KJV 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

WEB 18 I also tell you that you are Peter,{Peter's name, Petros in Greek, is the word for a specific rock or stone.} and on this rock{Greek, petra, a rock mass or bedrock.} I will build my assembly, and the gates of Hades{or, Hell} will not prevail against it.

ESV 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

NASB 18 "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

NIV 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

YOUNG 18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

Greek 18: kagw <2504> de <1161> {AND I ALSO} soi <4671> {TO THEE} legw <3004> (5719) {SAY,} oti <3754> {THAT} su <4771> {THOU} ei <1488> (5748) {ART} petroV <4074> {PETER,} kai <2532> {AND} epi <1909> {ON} tauth <3778> th <3588> {THIS} petra <4073> {ROCK} oikodomhsw <3618> (5692) {I WILL BUILD} mou <3450> thn <3588> {MY} ekklhsian <1577> {ASSEMBLY,} kai <2532> {AND} pulai <4439> {GATES} adou <86> ou <3756> {OF HADES} katiscusousin <2729> (5692) {SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST} authV <846> {IT.}

Vulgate 18 et ego dico tibi quia tu es Petrus et super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam et portae inferi non praevalebunt adversum eam

ASV 18 And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Darby 18And *I* also, I say unto thee that *thou* art Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and hades' gates shall not prevail against it.

NKJV 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Other Related Passages

Matthew 4 18: As he walked by the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon who is called Peter and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen.

Matthew 11 23: And you, Caper'na-um, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

38 posted on 12/02/2011 1:45:59 AM PST by johngrace (1 John 4!- declared at every Sunday Mass,Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace

yes, and peter means ‘rock’, got it....


39 posted on 12/02/2011 6:11:04 AM PST by raygunfan
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To: Salvation; All
We must also keep in mind that when we criticize the Church (or her clergy), we criticize Christ. 
The Church is not Christ, it is the bride of Christ

The Church is make up of every single Christian in the world.

The Church meaning in the quote, is the Catholic church.

Which is make up of infallible human beings.

Including the clergy.

We should not be prevented from criticizing either a denomination or those in the denomination, clergy or lay people.

In fact in scripture we are admonished to do so.

It's my understanding that it is Catholic doctrine that every Christian in the world must "come back" to the Mother (Catholic) Church in order to be in God's good graces. (The Mormons have a similar belief, that all must be Mormons to be saved)

There are many Christians that have never been in the Catholic church, so of course cannot come back to it.

There is only one Christian church, as I said above, which is made up of all believers.

One Church, many denominations, of which Catholicism is one of many.

All Christian denominations.

40 posted on 12/02/2011 10:09:54 AM PST by Syncro (Sarah Palin, the unofficial Tea Party candidate for president--Virtual Jerusalem)
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To: raygunfan

10-4 Good Buddy! That’s what people forget. Young’s literal translation is on the list. It reads rock as Peter . That’s his name. When people argue we forget it’s Simon went Rock. Amen.


41 posted on 12/02/2011 10:38:59 AM PST by johngrace (1 John 4!- declared at every Sunday Mass,Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace

Outstanding......thank you john.


42 posted on 12/02/2011 12:40:56 PM PST by raygunfan
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To: johngrace

It is interesting that in Aramaic, the word used for both Peter and Rock is “Keepa” — from that, we get the Greek transliteration “Cephas” (used in 1 Cor and Gal). Anyway, you ought to look at John 1:42 (Jesus’ first encounter with Peter and Andrew). Can you imagine Peter following Jesus if the first thing Jesus did was belittle him? (as the Prots imagine that He does in Matthew 16:18). Then one should ask if Jesus and Peter conversed in Koine Greek or in Aramaic?

Of course, one can see where that goes...


43 posted on 12/03/2011 8:06:58 AM PST by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good-Pope Leo XIII)
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To: markomalley

Yes!


44 posted on 12/03/2011 1:10:47 PM PST by johngrace (1 John 4!- declared at every Sunday Mass,Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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