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Posted on 12/11/2011 5:59:43 PM PST by rzman21
Or maybe wishful thinking?
If, for example, I say I have complete and total faith in my bank, and I withdraw my money "just in case of course." Then I really do not have faith in my bank. I can swear I do, really really think I do. I can hope that if it ever matters, I can point to how much I said and "really did have faith" in it. But if I had that faith, I would not have withdrawn my money. That is the truth, no matter what i wish it to be.
Faith and works are, as you say, inseparable. As one put it most accurately in my opinion: "Faith is what you do."
I called your mischaracterization of Catholic teaching a straw-man.
Brethren = all of Christ’s followers.
Read the Joint Catholic-Lutheran Declaration on Justification because it shows that Catholics and Protestants aren’t as far as one would think when it comes to the role of works in our journey.
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html
It is better to listen and understand than to wag one’s finger in judgement.
I am saved now.. I am sorry that you and other Catholics do not have that assurance
As I said Catholics do not know until it is too late to change anything ...
I distinguish between justification and sanctification.. they are 2 different things.. I am saved and I am being sanctified as I grow in Christ ..that will not be complete until I am glorified ...
The difference is very clear cut..I share not one bit of Catholic soteriology ..NO WE ARE NOT CLOSE
Dualism is common in many pagan religions. Gnosticism stuck around in Western Europe far longer than it did in the East.
One thing that is noticeable in these individual interpretations, something that as varied as they are, they have in common, is that they separate, divide.
The divisions are us and them, ‘us’ in these cases are ‘the saved’ described in numerous ways including those who can ‘spiritual discern’ - discern in this and other cases meaning discern that Jesus is not talking about them, they’re not subject to His words, or even in the cases of OSAS, subject to His judgement.
They divide out scripture so that it divides themselves out of responsibility for their actions, for His judgement. So long as they believe they possess the proper three or four verses that are not divided out, the rest can be ignored. In essence it’s not allowed in evidence, their judgement is a done deal way back whenever.
It is very important in the sola fide theology to do so.
I am saved and I am being sanctified as I grow in Christ ..that will not be complete until I am glorified ...
>>But you will be judged according to your works. I don’t believe you are saved. Salvation happens after you die.
Once saved, always saved is an error that even many Protestants have a hard time with.
Why should I care about your definition of assurance? It’s Western legalism.
One should always complete the text... you use the verse out of context and cherry pick the verse
Go back and read the context
It is blasphemy to run around proclaiming that you are already saved because the Last Judgment is yet to come, and you are telling God that you are entitled to salvation.
Our salvation is eternal..it starts on the day Christ saves us..
Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
My eternal life began in Aug 1976.. I am not telling God I am entitled to salvation... the only thing I am entailed to is hell ..(funny you use a word that signifies earned salvation)
To be saved by the grace and mercy of God means I am getting something I do not deserve and not getting what I do deserve..
Grace and mercy such beautiful words to the saved..
If you want to understand St. Paul, study Judaism. If you want to understand Christianity, study ancient Judaism.
That my friend is part of the problem with Catholicism..they remain in the OT where one was save by works.. ..so you have "vestments and candles and incense and a priest and a sacrifice..
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Lutherans, for example, don’t run around proclaiming they are “saved”, yet they believe in Sola Fide.
Meeting Baptists in college came as a shock to me before my conversion. Their POV struck me as a bit arrogant.
It's even experiencing a resurgence here with the publication and popularity of the "Gnostic Gospels."
My eternal life began in Aug 1976.. I am not telling God I am entitled to salvation... the only thing I am entailed to is hell ..(funny you use a word that signifies earned salvation)
>>Funny. Did God come down from on high and give you a private revelation?
With due respect. You have a lot to learn about what grace means. I have to run.
My eternal life began in Aug 1976.. I am not telling God I am entitled to salvation... the only thing I am entailed to is hell ..(funny you use a word that signifies earned salvation)
>>Funny. Did God come down from on high and give you a private revelation?
With due respect. You have a lot to learn about what grace means. I have to run.
I believe in the preservation of the saints... that is God preserves us..He keeps us..
Just as I could never save myself..I could never keep myself..he keeps me by His grace ..That is why Christ called it 'ETERNAL life"
Jhn 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Jhn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
Jhn 10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
Jhn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.
Actually I think you may be the one that needs to learn what grace is..it is not like gas that we have to put in the tank.. we can not earn grace .. by definition grace is getting what we do not deserve deserve
Justice is what we deserve
Mercy is not getting what we deserve
The minute you can earn it it ceases to be grace
Unlike catholics..I do not need a private revelation or one from peters seat.. I have the final revelation of God in His word.. read it my friend
Actually I think you may be the one that needs to learn what grace is..it is not like gas that we have to put in the tank.. we can not earn grace .. by definition grace is getting what we do not deserve deserve
>>Grace is freely given, but we have to cooperate with it.
Salvation is synergistic. Merit and legal terms have no place in my theology, so I wait patiently on the Lord. Whether God looks favorably on my works or not depends on my heart.
Look up the word synergos in the Greek.
I’m not OWED anything. It’s not the good works that I am worried about.
Wherefore, brethren, labour the more, that by good works you may make sure your calling and election. For doing these things, you shall not sin at any time. 2 Peter 1:10
No man can; however, we can leave of our own free will. Now, if you were to do away with free will in your theology, that would be the way to divide yourself out of that responsibility as well.
Why not just become Universalist and been done with it?
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
John 15:6
I reject any tinge of Calvinism because it turns God into a puppetmaster rather than a father.
Calvinism says that God saves us then He also keeps us, because we had no part in our salvation. If it was all in God’s power then I would agree however, God gave us a free-will and we can reject God if we choose. The Bible is very clear that it is possible to lose one’s salvation. However, this author believes it is so unlikely that none ever need be overly concerned about it.
Heb 10:26 - 31 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
http://www.thomastaylorministries.org/article_calvinism_perserverance_of_the_saints.htm
I’m citing from an Arminian source that like yourself believes in Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura.
Just as I could never save myself..I could never keep myself..he keeps me by His grace ..That is why Christ called it ‘ETERNAL life”
>>I have news for you. Catholics, nor Orthodox Christians, believe we can save ourselves, but we can lose our justification. Eternal life comes AFTER you die.
Monergism is un-Biblical.
First here’s a Protestant response to the verse you cited relying on Sola Scriptura:
The truth is, Scripture repeatedly warns believers against falling away because it is possible for genuine believers to fall away. For the same reason, Scripture also repeatedly admonishes believers to continue in the faith. All of such scriptures stand in direct contradiction to the Calvinistic doctrine of Perseverance of the Saints.
Piper then quotes from Jesus’ words in John 10:26-30 to prove that the elect cannot be lost. This passage of Scripture is the favorite of just about all who believe in eternal security, whether they are Calvinists or not:
But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.
This passage of scripture, of course, is not the only passage of scripture in the Bible. It highlights the faithfulness of Christ, but notice that it also mentions some characteristics of those to whom Christ is faithful: Jesus’ sheep hear His voice and follow Him. They are the ones who shall never perish or be snatched out of His hand. This fits perfectly with the testimony of the rest of Scripture. As long as we continue in faith, as evidenced by our following Jesus, we need not fear that we will perish or be snatched out of our Father’s hand. If we stop following Jesus, we are no longer His sheep.
http://www.heavensfamily.org/ss/calvinism/calvinism-perseverance-of-the-saints
Let’s look at the patristic consensus on the meaning of the verse you chose from John 10 from the Catena Aurea:
22. And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
23. And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon’s porch.
24. Then came the Jews round about him, and said to him, How long do you make us to doubt? If you be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25. Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me.
26. But you believe not, because you are not of my sheep, as I said to you.
27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
28. And I give to them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
30. I and my Father are one.”
AUG. And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication. Encænia is the feast of the dedication of the temple; from the Greek word signifying new. The dedication of any thing new was called encænia.
CHRYS. It was the feast of the dedication of the temple, after the return from the Babylonish captivity.
ALCUIN. Or, it was in memory of the dedication under Judas Maccabeus. The first dedication was that of Solomon in the autumn; the second that of Zorobabel, and the priest Jesus in the spring. This was in winter time.
BEDE. Judas Maccabeus instituted an annual commemoration of this dedication.
THEOPHYL. The Evangelist mentions the time of winter, to show that it was near His passion. He suffered in the following spring; for which reason He took up His abode at Jerusalem.
GREG. Or because the season of cold was in keeping with the cold malicious hearts of the Jews.
CHRYS. Christ was present with much zeal at this feast, and thenceforth stayed in Judea; His passion being now at hand. And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon’s porch.
ALCUIN. It is called Solomon’s porch, because Solomon went to pray there. The porches of a temple are usually named after the temple. If the Son of God walked in a temple where the flesh of brute animals was offered up, how much more will He delight to visit our house of prayer, in which His own flesh and blood are consecrated;
THEOPHYL. Be you also careful, in the winter time, i.e. while yet in this stormy wicked world, to celebrate the dedication of your spiritual temple, by ever renewing yourself, ever rising upward in heart. Then will Jesus be present with you in Solomon’s porch, and give you safety under His covering. But in another life no man will be able to dedicate Himself.
AUG. The Jews cold in love, burning in their malevolence, approached Him not to honor, but persecute. Then came the Jews round about Him, and said to Him, How long do you make us to doubt? If You be the Christ, tell us plainly. They did not want to know the truth, but only to find ground of accusation.
CHRYS. Being able to find no fault with His works, they tried to catch Him in His words. And mark their perversity. When He instructs by His discourse, they say, What sign show You? When He demonstrates by His works, they say, If you be the Christ, tell us plainly. Either way they are determined to oppose Him.
There is great malice in that speech, Tell us plainly. He had spoken plainly, when up at the feasts, and had hid nothing. They preface however with flattery: How long do you make us to doubt? as if they were anxious to know the truth, but really only meaning to provoke Him to say something that they might lay hold of.
ALCUIN. They accuse Him of keeping their minds in suspense and uncertainty, who had come to save their souls.
AUG. They wanted our Lord to say, I am the Christ. Perhaps, as they had human notions of the Messiah, having failed to discern His divinity in the Prophets they wanted Christ to confess Himself the Messiah, of the seed of David; that they might accuse Him of aspiring to the regal power.
ALCUIN. And thus they intended to give Him into the hands of the Proconsul for punishment, as an usurper against the emperor. Our Lord so managed His reply as to stop the mouths of His calumniators, open those of the believers; and to those who inquired of Him as a man, reveal the mysteries of His divinity: Jesus answered them, I told you, and you believed not: the works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me.
CHRYS. He reproves their malice, for pretending that a single word would convince them, whom so many words had not. If you do not believe My works, He says, how will you believe My words? And He adds why they do not believe: But you believe not, because you are not of My sheep.
AUG. He saw that they were persons predestinated to eternal death, and not those for whom He had bought eternal life, at the price of His blood. The sheep believe, and follow the Shepherd.
THEOPHYL. After He had said, You are not of My sheep, He exhorts them to become such: My sheep hear My voice.
ALCUIN. i.e. Obey My precepts from the heart. And I know them, and they follow Me, here by walking in gentleness and innocence, hereafter by entering the joys of eternal life.
And I give to them eternal life.
AUG. This is the pasture of which He spoke before And shall find pasture. Eternal life is called a goodly pasture: the grass thereof wither not, all is spread with verdure. But these cavilers thought only of this present life. And they shall not perish eternally; as if to say, you shall perish eternally, because you are not of My sheep.
THEOPHYL. But how then did Judas perish? Because he did not continue to the end. Christ speaks of them who persevere. If any sheep is separated from the flock, and wanders from the Shepherd, it incurs danger immediately.
AUG. And He adds why they do not perish: Neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand. Of those sheep of which it is said, The Lord knows them that are His, the wolf robs none, the thief takes none, the robber kills none. Christ is confident of their safety; and He knows what He gave up for them.
HILARY. This is the speech of conscious power. Yet to show, that though of the Divine nature He has His nativity from God, He adds, My Father which gave Me them is greater than all. He does not conceal His birth from the Father, but proclaims it. For that which He received from the Father, He received in that He was born from Him. He received it in the birth itself, not after it; though He was born when He received it.
AUG. The Son, born from everlasting of the Father, God from God, has not equality with the Father by growth, but by birth. This is that greater than all which the Father gave Him b; viz. to be His Word, to be His Only-Begotten Son, to be the brightness of His light.
Wherefore no man takes His sheep out of His hand, any more than from His Father’s hand: And no man is able to pluck them out of My Father’s hand. If by hand we understand power, the power of the Father and the Son is one, even as Their divinity is one. If we understand the Son, the Son is the hand of the Father, not in a bodily sense, as if God the Father had limbs, but as being He by Whom all things were made.
Men often call other men hands, when they make use of them for any purpose. And sometimes a man’s work is itself called his hand, because made by his hand; as when a man is said to know his own hand, when be recognizes his own handwriting. In this place, however, hand signifies power. If we take it for Son, we shall be in danger of imagining that if the Father has a hand, and that hand is His Son, the Son must have a Son too.
HILARY. The hand of the Son is spoken of as the hand of the Father, to let you see, by a bodily representation, that both have the same nature, that the nature and virtue of the Father is in the Son also.
CHRYS. Then that you may not suppose that the Father’s power protects the sheep, while He is Himself too weak to do so, He adds, I and My Father are one.
AUG. Mark both those words, one and are, and you will be delivered from Scylla and Charybdis. In that He says, one the Arian, in we are the Sabellian, is answered. There are both Father and Son. And if one, then there is no difference of persons between them.
AUG. We are one. What He is, that am I, in respect of essence, not of relation.
HILARY. The heretics, since they cannot gainsay these words, endeavor by an impious lie to explain them away. They maintain that this unity is unanimity only; a unity of will, not of nature, i.e. that the two are one, not in that they are the same, but in that they will the same. But they are one, not by any economy merely, but by the nativity of the Son’s nature, since there is no falling off of the Father’s divinity in begetting Him.
They are one whilst the sheep that are not plucked out of the Son’s hand, are not plucked out of the Father’s hand: whilst in Him working, the Father works; whilst He is in the Father, and the Father in Him. This unity, not creation but nativity, not will but power, not unanimity but nature accomplishes.
But we deny not therefore the unanimity of the Father and Son; for the heretics, because we refuse to admit concord in the place of unity, accuse us of making a disagreement between the Father and Son. We deny not unanimity, but we place it on the ground of unity. The Father and Son are one in respect of nature, honor, and virtue: and the same nature cannot will different things.
31. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him,
32. Jesus answered them, “Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do you stone me?”
33. The Jews answered him, saying, “For a good work we stone you not; but for blasphemy; and because that you, being a man, make yourself God.”
34. Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, you are gods?’
35. If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36. Say you of him, whom the Father has sanctified, and sent into the world, you blaspheme; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37. If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38. But if I do, though you believe not me, believe the works: that you may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.”
AUG. At this speech, I and My Father are one, the Jews could not restrain their rage, but ran to take up stones, after their hardhearted way: Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.
HILARY. The heretics now, as unbelieving and rebellious against our Lord in heaven, show their impious hatred by the stones, i.e. the words they cast at Him; as if they would drag Him down again from His throne to the cross.
THEOPHYL. Our Lord remonstrates with them; Many good works have I showed you from My Father, strewing that they had no just reason for their anger.
ALCUIN. Healing of the sick, teaching, miracles. He showed them of the Father, because He sought His Father’s glory in all of them. For which of these works do you stone Me? They confess, though reluctantly, the benefit they have received from Him, but charge Him at the same time with blasphemy, for asserting His equality with the Father;
For a good work we stone you not, but for blasphemy; and because that You, being a man, make Yourself God.
AUG. This is their answer to the speech, I and My Father are one. Lo, the Jews understood what the Arians understand not. For they are angry, for this very reason, that they could not conceive but that by saying, I and My Father are one, He meant the equality of the Father and the Son.
HILARY. The Jew said, You being a man, the Arian, you being a creature: but both say, You make yourself God. The Arian supposes a God of a new and different substance a God of another kind, or not a God at all. He said, You are not Son by birth, you art not God of truth; you art a superior creature.
CHRYS. Our Lord did not correct the Jews, as if they misunderstood His speech, but confirmed and defended it, in the very sense in which they had taken it. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law,
AUG. i.e. the Law given to you, I have said, you are gods? God saith this by the Prophet in the Psalm. Our Lord calls all those Scriptures the Law generally, though elsewhere He spiritually distinguishes the Law from the Prophets. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.
In another place He makes a threefold division of the Scriptures; All things must he fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses, and in the Prophets, and in the Psalms concerning Me. Now He calls the Psalms the Law, and thus argues from them; If he called them gods to whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken, say you of Him whom the Father has sanctified, and sent into the world, you blaspheme, because I said, I am the Son of God?
HILARY. Before proving that He and His Father are one, He answers the absurd and foolish charge brought against Him, that He being man made Himself God. When the Law applied this title to holy men, and the indelible word of God sanctioned this use of the incommunicable name, it could not be a crime in Him, even though He were man, to make Himself God.
The Law called those who were mere men, gods; and if any man could bear the name religiously, and without arrogance, surely that man could, who was sanctified by the Father, in a sense in which none else is sanctified to the Sonship; as the blessed Paul said, Declared to be the Son, of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness. For or all this reply refers to Himself as man; the Son of God being also the Son of man.
AUG. Or sanctified, i.e. in begetting, gave Him holiness, begat Him holy. If men to whom the word of God came were called gods, much more the Word of God Himself is God. If men by partaking of the word of God were made gods, much more is the Word of which they partake, God.
THEOPHYL. Or, sanctified, i.e. set apart to be sacrificed for the world: a proof that He was God in a higher sense than the rest. To save the world is a divine work, not that of a man made divine by grace.
CHRYS. Or, we must consider this a speech of humility, made to conciliate men. After it he leads them to higher things; If I do not the works of My Father, believe Me not; which is as much as to say, that He is not inferior to the Father. As they could not see His substance, He directs them to His works, as being like and equal to the Father’s. For the equality of their works, proved tile equality of their power.
HILARY. What place has adoption, or the mere conception of a name then, that we should not believe Him to be the Son of God by nature, when He tells us to believe Him to be the Son of God, because the Father’s nature showed itself in Him by His works?
A creature is not equal and like to God: no other nature has power comparable to the divine. He declares that He is carrying on not His own work, but the Father’s, lest in the greatness of the works, the nativity of His nature be forgotten.
And as under the sacrament of the assumption of a human body in is the womb of Mary, the Son of God was not discerned, this must be gathered from His work; But if I do, though you believe not Me, believe the works.
Why does the sacrament of a human birth hinder the understanding of the divine, when the divine birth accomplishes all its work by aid of the human? Then He tells them what they should gather from His works; That you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him. The same declaration again, I am the Son of God: I and the Father are one.
AUG. The Son does not say, The Father is in Me, and I in Him, in the sense in which men who think and act aright may say the like; meaning that they partake of God’s grace, and are enlightened by His Spirit. The Only-begotten Son of God is in the Father, and the Father in Him, as an equal in an equal.
39. Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,
40. And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode.
41. And many resorted to him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spoke of this man were true.
42. And many believed in him there.
BEDE. The Jews still persist in their madness; Therefore they sought again to take Him.
AUG. To lay hold of Him, not by faith and the understanding, but with blood thirsty violence. Do you so lay hold of Him, that you may have sure hold; they would fain have laid hold on Him, but they could not: for it follows, But He escaped out of their hand. They did lay hold of Him with the hand of faith. It was no great matter for the Word to rescue His flesh from the hands of flesh.
CHRYS. Christ, after discoursing on some high truth, commonly retires immediately, to give time to the fury of people to abate, during His absence. Thus He did now: He went away again beyond Jordan, into the place where John at first baptized. He went there that He might recall to people’s minds, what had gone on there; John’s preaching and testimony to Himself.
BEDE. He was followed there by many: And many resorted to Him, and said, John did no miracle.
AUG. Did not cast out devils, did not give sight to the blind, did not raise the dead.
CHRYS. Mark their reasoning, John did no miracle, but this Man did; wherefore He is the superior. But lest the absence of miracles should lessen the weight of John’s testimony, they add, But all things that John spoke of this Man were true.
Though he did no miracle, yet every thing he said of Christ was true, whence they conclude, if John was to be believed, much more this Man, who has the evidence of miracles. Thus it follows, And many believed in Him.
AUG. These laid hold of Him while abiding, not, like the Jews, when departing. Let us approach by the candle to the day. John is the candle, and gave testimony to the day.
THEOPHYL. We may observe that our Lord often brings out the people into solitary places, thus ridding them of the society of the unbelieving, for their furtherance in the faith: just as He led the people into the wilderness, when He gave them the old Law.
Mystically, Christ departs from Jerusalem, i.e. from the Jewish people; and goes to a place where are springs of water, i.e. to the Gentile Church, that has the waters of baptism. And many resort to Him, passing over the Jordan, i.e. through baptism.
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Instead of taking a few simple verses of scripture and believing them, this author goes off into the wild blue yonder with a myriad of philosophical guesses which apparently is supposed to be authoritative...
Though it may seem odd to summarize our discussion in that way, introducing suddenly the mention of grace, there is a reason for doing so. Romans 7, with its abstract dialectic of Law and sin, better self and concupiscence, has to be understood consistently with what St. Paul has already said in Romans 2.
Abstract??? Nonsense...Run Romans two into Romans three???
It has been pointed out to you in a previous post that there's a big change that takes place between those two chapters but as usual, this Catholic author doesn't have the spiritual acumen to to grasp it, nor the interest in believing what the scriptures says in it's simplicity...
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
There he seems to treat the keeping of the commandments as a real possibility: "for when the gentiles, who do not have the Law, naturally do the things of the Law..."(Romans 2:14). In fact, he says, "God will render to each man according to his works: eternal life to those who, dedicating themselves with perseverance to good works, seek glory, honor and immortality...glory honor and peace to all who do good, to the Jew first and to the Greek" (Romans 2:7) and this in a context in which the revelation of Christ is not even under discussion yet.
Oh really???
These words certainly show that St. Paul did not regard good works as impossible, misguided, or pernicious, as some Protestant exegetes have tried to hold. Quite the contrary. But if St. Paul seems to admit justifying works in Romans 2 and to exclude them in Romans 7, the most plausible explanation is that he is speaking of the total human condition in chapter 2, where grace is at work among Jew and gentile alike, whereas in chapter 7 he is showing what happens when the Law is isolated from grace. Such isolation is exactly what is sought, when man seeks his own righteousness on the basis of law.
The real question is, is this guy spiritually blinded or is he just handling the word of God deceitfully???
2Co 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
YOu can't be under the Law and under Grace at the same time...
Nope...
It's a comparison for ALL time...You want to live under the law NOW, you will be judged by the law...
If you want to live under grace, you have already been judged and found to be just, if you are in Jesus Christ and he in you...
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