Even the simplest Christian Churches have a CROSS.
Even the most extravagant LDS "Temples" do not.
The Nauvoo "temple" has a graven image of Baal however...
Some LDS "temples" even have pentagrams...
Posted on 12/12/2011 7:13:56 AM PST by Colofornian
“No, we don’t worship Joseph Smith,” I explained to the investigator. “We respect him as a prophet.”
“You mean, like Mohamed?” he asked.
“No, more like Moses, or John the Baptist.”
It was a standard comparison that I had used repeatedly on my mission. Joseph Smith is just a prophet. He’s just like John the Baptist, or Moses, or Peter, James, and John.
Of course, there are a few problems with that characterization, aren’t there?
Chief among them — if Joseph Smith is really just like John the Baptist, then why don’t we treat the two similarly? And despite doctrinal protests, we really don’t.
In the current hymnal, there are no hymns about Moses. None about John the Baptist (though Jesus’s baptism is referenced a few times). A few cursory mentions of Peter, in places like What Was Witnessed (#11), and implied mention in #105, Master the Tempest is Raging. There are some mentions of Adam — more than any other Biblical prophet, probably — as well as Enoch.
In contrast, we get two very well-known, oft-sung hymns focusing directly on Joseph Smith: Praise to the Man, and Oh How Lovely was the Morning. Prior hymnals contained many more: The Seer; Blest was the Day when the Prophet and Seer; O Give me Back my Prophet; and so on.
The same goes for church art. The average church building might have pictures of Joseph Smith alone; of the First Vision; of the priesthood restoration; of translation. The Gospel Art kit reflects this. It contains ten pictures of Joseph Smith. There are six pictures of Jesus’ apostles, four pictures of Moses, Lehi, and Nephi, and three each of Adam and Daniel...
...the personal nature of much...music and art — Praise to the Man — cuts in the other direction...
(Excerpt) Read more at timesandseasons.org ...
Prior hymnals contained many more: The Seer; Blest was the Day when the Prophet and Seer; O Give me Back my Prophet; and so on.
__________________________________________
Be interesting to know what the lyrics are in those songs of worship to Joey Smith..
The prophecies I point to were given by men who bid us follow the God we have known, the All-Holy Trinity, the Father who is without beginning, the Son, even Our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, who spake by the prophets, One God, not “other gods”, and they came to pass. So your point is?
I would also note that “if the thing follow not nor come to pass” must be tempered with the case of the Holy Prophet Jonah, who was so successful in the main point of prophecy — the call to repentance — that the Lord, seeing the repentance of the Ninevites, did not destroy Nineveh.
“Scores and scores” would imply at least 40. Here are 60+ (in case I messed up and included some from non-LDS sources). I didn’t go through the whole hymnal, as you can see, but quit in the 220s. There are 341 hymns total in the English version.
There are gaps for various reasons. The first 50 or so hymns are “restoration” hymns and include the “Joseph Smith” ones, as well as uniquely Momon hymns like “Come, Come Ye Saints” or “The Spirit of God.” The gap in the early 200s are the Christmas hymns (yes, we stole all those).
On some the title does not disclose well the topic. For example, here is the first verse of #186 - Again We Meet around the Board - “Again we meet around the board of Jesus, our redeeming Lord, with faith in his atoning blood, our only access unto God.”
Here’s the list:
#6 - Redeemer of Israel
#57 - We’re Not Ashamed to Own Our Lord
#61 - Raise Your Voices to the Lord
#63 - Great King of Heaven
#64 - On This Day of Joy and Gladness
#65 - Come, All Ye Saints Who Dwell on Earth (tune is “borrowed”)
#71 - With Songs of Praise
#73 - Praise the Lord with Heart and Voice
#76 - God of Our Fathers, We Come unto Thee
#77 - Great Is the Lord
#81 - Press Forward, Saints
#91 - Father, Thy Children to Thee Now Raise
#96 - Dearest Children, God Is Near You
#99 - Nearer, Dear Savior, to Thee
#101 - Guide Me to Thee
#107 - Lord, Accept Our True Devotion
#112 - Savior, Redeemer of My Soul
#113 - Our Savior’s Love
#114 - Come unto Him
#117 - Come unto Jesus
#120 - Lean on My Ample Arm
#122 - Though Deepening Trials
#126 - How Long, O Lord Most Holy and True
#127 - Does the Journey Seem Long?
#128 - When Faith Endures
#129 - Where Can I Turn for Peace?
#134 - I Believe in Christ
#135 - My Redeemer Lives
#137 - Testimony
#146 - Gently Raise the Sacred Strain
#150 - O Thou Kind and Gracious Father
#151 - We Meet, Dear Lord
#155 - We Have Partaken of Thy Love
#157 - Thy Spirit, Lord, Has Stirred Our Souls
#158 - Before Thee, Lord, I Bow My Head
#169 - As Now We Take the Sacrament
#171 - With Humble Heart
#172 - In Humility, Our Savior (tune is “borrowed”)
#174 - While of These Emblems We Partake
#175 - O God, the Eternal Father (tune is “borrowed”)
#176 - ‘Tis Sweet to Sing the Matchless Love
#177 - ‘Tis Sweet To Sing the Matchless Love
#178 - O Lord of Hosts
#179 - Again, Our Dear Redeeming Lord
#180 - Father in Heaven, We Do Believe
#181 - Jesus of Nazareth, Savior and King
#182 - We’ll Sing All Hail to Jesus’ Name
#183 - In Remembrance of Thy Suffering
#184 - Upon the Cross of Calvary
#185 - Reverently and Meekly Now
#186 - Again We Meet around the Board
#187 - God Loved Us, So He Sent His Son
#188 - Thy Will, O Lord, Be Done
#189 - O Thou, Before the World Began
#190 - In Memory of the Crucified
#191 - Behold the Great Redeemer Die
#195 - How Great the Wisdom and the Love
#196 - Jesus, Once of Humble Birth (tune is “borrowed”)
#197 - O Savior, Thou Who Wearest a Crown (tune is “borrowed”)
#198 - That Easter Morn
#220 - Lord, I Would Follow Thee
#222 - Hear Thou Our Hymn, O Lord
Give me a bit - I’ll dig out my old hymnal and post them.
That’s Profit not Prophet.
Sheesh, there is a difference yuh know... /S
The Mormons I’ve known seem to care about Martha Smith a lot more than they do about Joseph Smith, so does that mean they’re not very good Mormons or is there some sort of substition allowed?
Ping me later.
I have a hymnal from the 20’s or 30’s. I can look up the subject of this article/discussion and confirm.
Try as the cult could to "cookie cutter" them all, they haven't been able.
T. P. has listed a whole bunch of "Jesus" related mormon hymns. How many of them have you actually heard or sung in a mormon service? I see several with similar names to Christian hymns but most of these were not in use when I was mormon.
“Oh! Blest was the Day when the Prophet and Seer” appears to be in the 1927 hymnal, as well as various supplemental publications. It is not a “Praise Joseph” one, but rather a commemoration of the creation of the Relief Society organization. Interestingly, it is sung to “The Star Spangled Banner.”
#137 - O Give Me Back my Prophet Dear (LDS Hymns 1948)
[John Taylor]
O give me back my Prophet dear,
And Patriarch, O give them back;
The Saints of latter days to cheer,
And lead them in the gospel track.
But ah! they're gone from my embrace,
From earthly scenes their spirits fled;
Those two, the best of Adam's race,
Now lie entombed among the dead.
Ye men of wisdom tell me why,
When guilt nor crime in them were found,
Why now their blood doth loudly cry,
From prison walls, and Carthage ground
Your tongues are mute, but pray attend,
The secret I will now relate,
Why those whom God to earth did lend,
Have met the suffering martyr's fate.
It is because they strove to gain,
Beyond the grave a heaven of bliss;
Because they made the gospel plain,
And led the Saints in righteousness.
It is because God called them forth,
And led them by his own right hand
Christ's coming to proclaim on earth,
And gather Israel to their land.
It is because the priests of Baal
Were desperate their craft to save;
And when they saw it doomed to fail,
They sent the Prophets to the grave.
Like scenes the ancient Prophets saw,
Like these, the ancient Prophets fell;
And till the resurrection dawn,
Prophet and Patriarch-Fare thee well.
#296 - The Seer, Joseph, The Seer (LDS Hymns 1948)
[John Taylor]
The Seer, Joseph, the Seer!
I'll sing of the Prophet ever dear,
The Prophet ever dear;
His equal cannot be found
By searching the wide world around.
With Gods he soared in the realms of day,
And men he taught the heavenly way,
And men he taught the heavenly way.
The earthly Seer! the heavenly Seer!
I love to dwell on his memory dear;
The chosen of God and the friend of man,
He brought the priesthood back again;
He gazed on the past and the future, too,
And opened, and opened
The heavenly world to view,
And opened, and opened
The heavenly world to view.
Of noble seed, of heavenly birth,
He came to bless the sons of earth,
To bless the sons of earth;
With keys by the Almighty given,
He opened the full rich stores of heaven;
O'er the world that was wrapped in sable night,
Like the sun he spread his golden light,
Like the sun he spread his golden light.
He strove, O how he strove to stay
The stream of crime in its reckless way!
With a mighty hand and a noble aim,
He urged the wayward to reclaim:
‘Mid foaming billows of angry strife,
He stood at, he stood at
The helm of the ship of life,
He stood at, he stood at
The helm of the ship of life.
The Saints, the Saints, his only pride!
For them he lived, for them he died;
He lived, for them he died;
Their joys were his, their sorrows too.
He loved the Saints; he loved Nauvoo.
Unchanged in death with a Savior's love,
He pleads their cause in the courts above.
He pleads their cause in the courts above.
The Seer, the Seer! Joseph, the Seer!
O how I love his memory dear!
The just and wise, the pure and free,
A father he was and is to me.
Let fiends now rage, in their dark hour—
No matter, no matter,
He is beyond their power,
No matter, no matter,
He is beyond their power.
He's free! He's free! The Prophet's free!
He is where he will ever be,
Where he will ever be,
Beyond the reach of mobs and strife,
He rests unharmed in endless life.
His home's in the sky; he dwells with the Gods
Far from the furious rage of mobs,
Far from the furious rage of mobs.
He died, he died for those he loved.
He reigns; he reigns in the realms above.
He waits with the just who have gone before
To welcome the Saints to Zion's shore.
Shout, shout, ye Saints! This boon is given;
We'll meet him, we'll meet him
Our martyred Seer, in heaven.
We'll meet him, we'll meet him
Our martyred Seer, in heaven.
Oh! Blest was the Day when the Prophet and Seer
[Emily Hill Woodmansee]
1 Oh! blest was the day when the Prophet and Seer,
(Who stands at the head of this last dispensation,)
Inspir’d from above by “The Father” of Love
Form’d the Daughters of Zion's great organization.
Its purpose, indeed, is to comfort and feed
The honest and poor in distress and in need.
Oh! the Daughters of Zion, the friends of the poor,
Are exemplars of faith, hope and charity,
2 Oh! Daughters of Truth, ye have cause to rejoice,
Lo! the key of advancement is placed in your keeping;
To help with your might whatsoever is right,
To gladden their hearts who are weary of weeping.
By commandment divine, Zion's daughters must shine,
And all of the sex, e'en as one, should combine;
For a oneness of action success will
In resisting the wrongs that ‘tis wrong to endure.
Oh! the Daughters of Zion, the friends of the poor,
Are exemplars of faith, hope and charity, pure.
3 Oh, woman! God gave thee the longing to bless,
Thy touch like Compassion's, is warm and caressing;
There is power in thy weakness to soften
To brighten the gloom and the darkness depressing:
And not in the rear, hence, need woman appear;
Her star is ascending, her zenith is
Like an angel of mercy, she'll stand in the van,
The joy of the world, and the glory of man.
Oh! the Daughters of Zion, the friends of the poor,
Are exemplars of faith, hope and charity, pure.
4 Oh! be of good cheer, far-extending we see
The rosy-hued dawn like a vision of beauty;
Its glory and light can interpreted be:
Go on, in the pathway of love and of duty!
The brave earnest soul will arrive at its goal;
True heroes are crowned as the ages
There is blessing in blessing, admit it we must,
And there's honor in helping a cause that is just.
Oh! the Daughters of Zion, the friends of the poor,
Are exemplars of faith, hope and charity, pure.
If it is the 1927 one, can you check on that "Oh! Blest was the Day when the Prophet and Seer" one? I see conflicting information on if it was in there or not. I also see it as hymn #337 or #377. Thanks.
Mormon song #186 “Again we meet around the board of Jesus, our redeeming Lord, with faith in his atoning blood, our only access unto God.”
_____________________________________
A couple of things right out of the gatge Tadpole...
1. That “atoning blood” of your mormon jesus is said by mormons to have been sweated in the Garden of Gethsemenee..
Thats not what happened to the real Jesus..
2. This Mormon doctrine contradicts the words “our only access unto God.” in that song...
There is “no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God”
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190
and this one too...
“From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are — I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent”
(Brigham Young, October 9, 1859, Journal of Discourses 7:289).
Boy Tadpole youre trying real hard to please...
Last week you werte bashing me ...
What happened ???
Merry SMITHmas season ???
Even the simplest Christian Churches have a CROSS.
Even the most extravagant LDS "Temples" do not.
The Nauvoo "temple" has a graven image of Baal however...
Some LDS "temples" even have pentagrams...
Admittedly, not all of them. #6, #81, #91, #96, #99, #101, #107, #117, #122, #127, #134, #135, #146, #169, #171, #172, #174, #175, #176, #177, #178, #179, #180, #181, #182, #183, #184, #185, #186, #187, #188, #189, #190, #191, #195, and #196 get sung in Sacrament meeting in my current ward at least once a year. Some more frequently. Of course, from #169-#200 are "Sacrament" hymns, and we sing one of those every Sunday.
#137 - O Give Me Back my Prophet Dear
Why those whom God to earth did lend,
________________________________________
This is blasphemy right here...
The True account in the Christian Biblke reads...
“For God so loved the world that He gave...”
(Joey Smith ???
NO)
“His only begotten Son...”
John 3:16
I will always try to answer a sincere question. Regardless of past experience with that person. My thought is that we can strongly disagree with others but still be civil.
Interesting. I'd say, based on the little experience I have with Mormons, that they do all manage to have a screw loose somewhere. One thing they get overly hung up on or hung up on not being hung up on. It's either that the complete isolation from non-Cult members groups like the Branch Davidians or Aum Shinrikyo rely on makes the process they use less reliable from their point of view, or that enough of them don't realize that they're supposed to be keeping one another in line the way some groups do.
Then again, I've seen Fundamentalist high schools where they tried to keep tabs on everyone all the time and it just served to make more of them rebellious. Do you have any idea what percentage of them are born into Mormonism as opposed to converting to Mormonism from something else or from no faith at all?
The ONLY ones I remember singing EVER when I was LDS are
#6 and #135.
And to be fair Tadpole included songs that really aren’t about Christ, like the couple of sacrament songs or ‘testimony’ (which are more about the individual) or equate Christ with ‘the church’.
Also, there is much more evidence than just the hymns that Smith and ‘the Church’ is the focus of Mormonism, not Christ.
Re: Joseph Smith stands at the gate to Mormon heaven.
Mormons teach that we are judged according to the law that is in effect while we are on the earth. We teach that Joseph Smith participates in the judgment insofar as to testify as to what law applied to us. Just as those that lived in the time of Moses would see him there testifying what law applied to that time. We don't teach that he judges us. Only that he provides the measuring stick by which we are judged.
If I get time later (maybe not even today) I will try to explain this better.
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