Posted on 12/13/2011 9:55:16 PM PST by dangus
I pray I haven't been guilty of the sin of calumny against a pope! In several Free Republic threads over the years I took as an accepted fact that the Pope kissed the Koran, and in several, commented that the Pope had erred on the side of peacemaking, by making this unscripted gesture of respect. I was surprised by finding some denials of this event.
Those who believe the Pope kissed the Koran apparently include the man who was the Patriarch of the Chaldean (Iraqi Catholic) Church at the time, Raphael Bidawid: "I renewed our invitation to the Pope because his visit would be for us a grace from heaven. It would confirm the faith of Christians and prove the Pope’s love for the whole of humanity in a country which is mainly Muslim. At the end of the audience the Pope bowed to the Muslim holy book the Koran presented to him by the delegation and he kissed it as a sign of respect.
Finding that quote, originally from a reputably Catholic source, seemed to clinch the issue for me. But then I noticed something: All of the other pictures of the Koran that I found are very plainly labelled, usually in Arabic, "Koran."
All the images of the pope kissing the Koran are stills from the same image, which is in pretty poor resolution. It is clear, however, that the stylish imprint on the book, while reminiscent of the Koran, is not actually the Arabic script that appears on the Koran.
The next thing that struck me is that as I examined the "Koran" that the Pope kissed is that it looked like a binder. Sure, it's a green book with fancy caligraphy embossed on the cover, but who puts the Koran in a binder?
Sure, you THINK you see the pope kiss the Koran, but I bet you also THINK you see him do so in front of the Muslim who gave it to him. Nope. The man in the picture is a Christian. Which brings up the next question: If it was the Koran, did the Pope know this? It's common Arab protocol to kiss a gift one has received, and the Pope could easily have been simply following protocol respectfully, and not recognizing that the gift was, if it was, a Koran. Has anyone ever read anything which confirms that he Pope knowingly kissed the Koran?
According to the former Chaldean Patriarch, John Paul II kissed the Qur’an. Case closed.
On May 14th I was received by the Pope, together with a delegation composed of the Shi’ite imam of Khadum mosque and the Sunni president of the council of administration of the Iraqi Islamic Bank. There was also a representative of the Iraqi ministry of religion. I renewed our invitation to the Pope, because his visit would be for us a grace from heaven. It would confirm the faith of Christians and prove the Pope’s love for the whole of humanity in a country which is mainly Muslim.
At the end of the audience the Pope bowed to the Muslim holy book, the Qu’ran, presented to him by the delegation, and he kissed it as a sign of respect. The photo of that gesture has been shown repeatedly on Iraqi television and it demonstrates that the Pope is not only aware of the suffering of the Iraqi people, he has also great respect for Islam.
http://www.catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=10415
http://www.jimmyakin.org/2006/04/jp2_and_the_qur.html
What prophecy is that?
You wrote:
“Be patient, my dear.”
I’m not your dear, and this has nothing to do with patience.
“Legitimate or valid, by whose standard?”
By ANY reasonable standard. Anything else is quackery.
“If we are really in the last days, you are going to see acts and wonders you never conceived as possibilities.”
Not really. Those of us who know REAL prophecy will rarely be surprised. Those who live in a paranoid twilight world of modern fundamentalism will be surprised again and again - especially at their own failures.
I think I will keep this post, so I can rub it in later, if it does happen.
I don’t mind saying it, as truth is truth and whatever is supposed to happen, will happen, regardless of which school of thought you belong to.
I’m a SDA and that is my church’s position.
Some of those ideas are rather silly at this point, like EGW's claim that eeevvilll Rome is planning a vast end times persecution of everyone who worships on Saturday. Most Catholic parishes now have Sunday-anticipated Masses on Saturday night. I guess evil Rome is going to persecute ... herself?
Authentic Catholicism can "unite" with Islam only when Islam rejects their many errors. When we have an "Islam" that can say the Nicene Creed and believe it, then we can talk about "uniting" Catholicism and Islam, within one Catholic Church. Of course, they won't be Muslims anymore, when that happens.
As to what apostate Catholics may do in the future, most of them seem to obey Pope Zeitgeist. Maybe after they get bored with "ordaining" women and "marrying" homosexuals, they'll embrace Islam. Anything but actually embracing the truth ... see Lewis's Great Divorce in the scene with the Anglican prelate.
I always maintain we will all be surprised. Assuming that the SDA understanding and interpretation is correct, I will also be surprised as to how it all will play out.
I believe these things will happen, but I fully expect the manner of how it plays out will surprise everyone of us.
And as I said, it’s the devout and real Catholics that is who the Bible is condemning.
Anybody who is a real follower of God, regardless of their denominations will be called out by God just shortly before it all happens.
Let me correct myself quickly.
It is NOT the real and devout Catholics that the Bible condemns.
I wish Free Republic would allow us to correct posts. :)
....Sure, you THINK you see the pope kiss the Koran, but I bet you also THINK you see him do so in front of the Muslim who gave it to him. Nope. The man in the picture is a Christian. Which brings up the next question: If it was the Koran, did the Pope know this? It's common Arab protocol to kiss a gift one has received, and the Pope could easily have been simply following protocol respectfully, and not recognizing that the gift was, if it was, a Koran. Has anyone ever read anything which confirms that he Pope knowingly kissed the Koran?
What clinches it for me is the complete silence from any source or quarter until now, that it was anything BUT a Koran. You'd think that someone in the Vatican would have made a statement at the time, to the effect that every news source on the planet had it wrong - or at least publish a different photo, one taken at the same event, that cleared it up.
Lots of speculation in the vanity, but no concrete evidence offered to the contrary. IMO this is a bit of wishful thinking on the part of Catholics.
The man in the picture isn't a Moslem but a Christian.
The clincher is the complete silence from any source or quarter in the Islamic world to crow over this -- they would have been shouting it forever if it was a Korn. But the "anytin but Catholic" crowd can't see beyond their hatred for Christ's Church.
good job dangus
Only those groups that reject Jesus Christ as Lord, God and Savior will be the many-headed beast -- that will not include Catholics/Orthodox or the "Christ is God" believing non-Catholics
You could very well be correct.
Rather, since Mutawill and the de-Hellenization of Islam in the 10th century, the belief is that there are no miracles and no science/logic either -- everything is predestined, pre-willed, pre-written. There is nothing but utter fate/destiny.
No "fire from heaven' would convince the Wahabbis -- don't mistake them for Tantrics!
It’s one thing to teach that. It’s another thing to see it with your eyes and then try and explain it away.
I do believe these things will happen, but they will be deceptions. Unbelieveable deceptions.
Not my articles, but thanks for playing:
WHEN THE POPE KISSED THE KORAN
JP2 and the Quran
Poep John Paul II Kissing The Koran
well no, it was always to be seen that groups like the ECUSA, PCUSA etc. would implode under their weight -- the only question was when. Also we see among the non-denoms, the move towards "feel good" like Joel Osteen or towards non-trinitarianism, and even those who deny that Jesus Christ is Lord and God.
It just takes one step at a time, over 500 years to reach this conclusion. It's only accelerating now because of the communication revolution -- when people who reject orthodoxy can mutate their ideas at a faster pace than before
The way that we've seen, the prophecies as you may put it over the past 500+ years shows that all of these groups moving away from orthodoxy are moving towards the common idea of rejecting Christianity -- Islam, Unitarianism, Adventists, the PCUSA, ECUSA, ELCA etc. etc.
Nah, those were silly articles with no facts — very much like yours
The prophecies that the non-denoms and other groups will find unity with Islam in their disbelief in orthodox Christianity holds true
In the next decades we will see these non-denoms join with Islam -- since their strictness mirrors Wahabbiism
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