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The Virgin Birth! [Lds refrain from repudiating Mormon leaders' comments re: Christ's conception]
Mormon Outreach.org ^ | April 2002 | Rocky Hulse

Posted on 12/20/2011 7:38:01 AM PST by Colofornian

In the early months of 2002 the opinion pages of the local Iowa newspapers had many letters to the editors attacking my integrity and impugning my motives. It’s interesting to note that the documented quotes the writers of these letters we incensed about are not being challenged; but instead only non-rational appeals in an argumentum ad hominem (“an argument against the person” and not against the ideas he is presenting). Only one letter has attempted to repudiate the quotes and that was only for a single source. The writer objected to our position that the Mormon Church denies the “virgin birth.” The following is an except from my response letter to this person:

“Many of the resources they use, especially for their more salacious claims, are not “authorized” in any way.” You say “Many” yet only list “one”, The Seer, and then provide no documentation to support your statement that it was rejected. You simply throw a quote out there, undocumented. Every quote I use Steven is documented. I am very interested in the truth, Steven, and if you’ll provide the source documentation, I’ll verify it, and if accurate, I’ll stop using that source, simple as that.

You object to my using the quote in “The Seer” denying the virgin birth and say that “Mormons do indeed believe in the virgin birth…” well, let’s look at some other sources:

(1) Brigham Young explained the birth of Christ in the following manner: “The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol 8, page 115)

(2) In a sermon delivered in the Tabernacle on April 19, 1852, Brigham Young made the following statements: “I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told. Now remember from this time forth, and for ever, that JESUS CHRIST WAS NOT BEGOTTEN BY THE HOLY GHOST. I will repeat a little anecdote. I was in conversation with a certain learned professor upon the subject, when I replied, to this idea—‘if the Son was begotten by the Holy Ghost, it would be VERY DANGEROUS TO BAPTIZE AND CONFIRM FEMALES, AND GIVE THE HOLY GHOST TO THEM, LEST HE SHOULD BEGET CHILDREN TO BE PALMED UPON THE ELDERS BY THE PEOPLE, BRINGING THE ELDERS INTO GREAT DIFFICULTIES.’” (Journal of Discourses, Vol 1, page 51)

(3) Joseph Fielding Smith, Tenth President of the Mormon Church, stated: “They tell us the Book of Mormon states that Jesus was begotten of the Holy Ghost. I CHALLENGE THAT STATEMENT. The Book of Mormon teaches NO SUCH THING! NEITHER DOES THE BIBLE.” (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol 1, page 19)

(4) Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., stated: “The birth of the Savior was a NATURAL occurrence unattended with any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the LITERAL PARENT of Jesus in the FLESH as well as in the spirit.” (Religious Truths Defined, page 44)

(5) President Joseph Fielding Smith made this statement: “Christ was begotten of God. HE WAS NOT BORN WITHOUT THE AID OF MAN, AND THAT MAN WAS GOD!” (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol 1, page 18)

(6) Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie makes the following statements: “These name-titles all signify that our Lord is the only Son of the Father in flesh. Each of the words is to be understood literally. Only means only; Begotten means begotten; and Son means son. Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers.” (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, pp. 546-547) “And Christ was born into the world as the literal son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events,…Christ is the Son of Man, meaning that his Father (the Eternal God!) is a Holy Man.” (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, page 742)

(7) The Mormon writer Carlfred B. Broderick made these comments: “There are two basic elements in the Gospel view of sexuality as I interpret it from the scriptures. The first is that sex is good—that sexuality, far from being the antithesis of spirituality, is actually an attribute of God… “In light of their understanding that God is a procreating personage of flesh and bone, latter-day prophets have made it clear that despite what it says in Matthew 1:20, the Holy Ghost was NOT the father of Jesus…. The Savior was fathered by a personage of flesh and bone, and was literally what Nephi said he was, ‘Son of the Eternal Father.’” (Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn, 1967, pages 100-101, as reported in Mormonism – Shadow or Reality? Page 260)

(8) Heber C. Kimball, who was a member of the First Presidency under Brigham Young, made this statement: “In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also MY SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was NOTHING UNNATURAL ABOUT IT. (Journal of Discourses, Vol 8, page 211)

(9) A Doctrinal Exposition by the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles “Jesus Christ applies to Himself both titles, “Son” and “Father.” Indeed, He specifically said to the brother of Jared: “Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son” (Ether 3:14). Jesus Christ is the Son of Elohim BOTH AS SPIRITUAL AND BODILY OFFSPRING; that is to say, Elohim is LITERALLY THE FATHER OF THE SPIRIT OF JESUS CHRIST AND ALSO THE BODY in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh, and which body died on the cross and was afterward taken up by the process of resurrection, and is now the immortalized tabernacle of the external spirit of our Lord and Savior. No extended explanation of the title “Son of God” as applied to Jesus Christ appears necessary. (The Ensign of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, April 2002, page 14).

As you can see, I do not need to quote “The Seer” to provide ample documentation that Mormon Church Prophets and Apostles have denied the virgin birth. This last quote is from the just released issue of the Mormon Church’s official magazine the “Ensign.” The Church teaches one thing in their Sunday School classes and quite another in their history. So, who is right Steven, your Sunday School teacher, or Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball, Joseph Fielding Smith and Bruce R. McConkie?

The emphasis in the above quotes are mine.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Current Events; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: inman; jesuschrist; lds; mormon; virginbirth
From the article: Only one letter has attempted to repudiate the quotes and that was only for a single source...Mormon Church Prophets and Apostles have denied the virgin birth. This last quote is from the just released issue of the Mormon Church’s official magazine the “Ensign.” The Church teaches one thing in their Sunday School classes and quite another in their history.

Here's a few more Mormon leaders' quotes:

Example: Indeed, some LDS leaders have tried to play it both ways re: describing Mary as a virgin (for example, LDS apostle Bruce R. McConkie). Some clearly implied that she wasn’t (Brigham Young)

Example of LDS saying Mary was a virgin: "Modernistic teachings denying the virgin birth are utterly and completely apostate and false." (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, page 822). [A CARM writer’s comment to this was: Let them proclaim it. But quite honestly, I fail to see how the Mormon people can assert that Mary remained a virgin in light of this evidence from their prophets and apostles. I see them saying two different things and backpedaling trying to sound Christian.]

Let’s deal with each of those descriptions separately, shall we?

Did ya'll catch the conception part here being discussed as part of a “normal and natural course of events” process? Was McConkie just making that up out of thin air? No. He was simply repeating what earlier LDS “prophets” have said about this “natural process”:

...same physical sense that any other man begets a child...:

Brigham Young:

“God…created man [as spirit children], as we create our children: for there is no other process of creation in heaven, on the earth, in the earth, or under the earth, or in all eternities, that is, that were, or that ever will be.” Journal of Discourses (JoD), vol. 11, p. 122

(OK, Young's quote here = absolute statement that God only has one means of creation, and that the spirit, Jesus, was first “created” in heaven through the same process “as we create our children”).

(Of course, if any poster wants to tell us that they were begotten of their fathers in some other manner that their fathers who ”partook of flesh and blood”--anything other than what Young called a “natural action”--we’ve got listening ears)

“When the time came that His first-born, the Saviour, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came Himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it.” (JoD, vol. 4, p. 218, 1857)

What did Brigham mean by "who is the Father?...first of the human family?”

”Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation…Now remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost.” (Millennial Star, Vol. 15, p. 770, 1853)

What other LDS “prophets” embraced Brigham’s “natural process” of begottening?

“…As the horse, the ox, the sheep, and every living creature, including man, propogates its own species & perpetuates its own kind, so does God perpetuate His.” (Lds "prophet" John Taylor, Mediation & Atonement, 1882, p. 165)

What about other LDS apostles? What did they say about this natural process?

"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (LDS apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 547.)

I know a lot of folks have seen McConkie quotes on this controversial subject, but not nearly as many have seen this following McConkie excerpt…where McConkie makes sure we otherstand the literalness of what’s he talking about:

“We have spoke PLAINLY of our Lord’s conception in the womb of Mary. I am the son of my father and the father of my sons. They are my sons because they were begotten by me, were conceived by their mother, and came forth from her womb to breathe the breath of mortal life, to dwell for a time and a season among other mortal men. And so it is with the Eternal Father and the mortal birth of the Eternal Son. The Father is a Father is a Father…And the Son is a Son is a Son…a literal, living offspring from an actual Father. God is the Father; Christ is the Son. The one begat the other. Mary provided the womb from which the Spirit Jehovah came forth, tabernacled in clay, as all men are, to dwell among his fellow spirits whose births were brought to pass in like manner. There is no need to spiritualize away the plain meaning of the scriptures. There is nothing figurative or hidden or beyond comprehension in our Lord’s coming into mortality. He is the Son of God in the same sense and way that we are the sons of mortal fathers. It is that simple. Christ was born of Mary. He is the Son of God—the Only Begotten of the Father. (McConkie, The Promised Messiah, pp. 467-468, 1978 )

1 posted on 12/20/2011 7:38:08 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
Brigham Young said, "The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers," (Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 115).

Brigham Young also said, "Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 51).

Brigham Young said, "When the time came that His first-born, the Saviour, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came Himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. The Saviour was begotten by the Father of His spirit, by the same Being who is the Father of our spirits," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, 1857, p. 218).

{I really like this next one...}

Joseph Fielding Smith said, "They tell us the Book of Mormon states that Jesus was begotten of the Holy Ghost. I challenge that statement. The Book of Mormon teaches no such thing! Neither does the Bible." (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 19).

{Uhm, hello!!?? Alma "said" it.}

Bruce McConkie, who was a member of the First Council of the Seventy stated, "Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers," (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 547). "And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events,...Christ is the Son of Man, meaning that his Father (the Eternal God!) is a Holy Man." (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, p. 742).

Heber C. Kimball who was a member of the first presidency said,"In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my saviour Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it." (Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 211).

Now, before anyone argues that the JoD are to be discounted as just the “opinions of men”, read this…

"The Journal of Discourses is a vehicle of doctrine, counsel, and instruction to ALL people, but especially to the Saints. It follows then, then, [sic] that each successive volume is more and more valuable as the Church increases in numbers and importance in the earth." Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. iii (1867) " — Brigham Young

So God had sex with Mary and Jesus was conceived through physical relations according to mormon prophets, apostles and seventy’s. Yet, the BoM [“…the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our [mormon] religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.”] says something different, “by the power of the Holy Ghost”. A supposed ancient record translated through the power of God says something completely different than what purported “prophets” of God revealed.

How is that possible? Is the BoM “not translated correctly”?

So, who is right? The BoM, or the “men” of the church? How does a number of their prophets and apostles get to change the entire construct and meaning of Alma 7:10 without changing the BoM to match their teachings?

Did the mormon god “get it wrong”?

2 posted on 12/20/2011 7:45:06 AM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Colofornian

Bottom line...

The Mormon do not believe Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus..


3 posted on 12/20/2011 7:47:27 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Colofornian

Well, there’s a kind of dreadful consistency.


4 posted on 12/20/2011 7:51:34 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: Colofornian

As a Catholic, I’m used to being called a Bible-rejecting Mary-worshipping drunk, mainly by predestined Calvinists, but at least my few remaining unpickled brain cells can rebel at the very notion of believing in all this fanciful Mormon poppycock!

Only two more shopping days before Smithmas!


5 posted on 12/20/2011 7:51:34 AM PST by elcid1970 ("Deport all Muslims. Nuke Mecca now. Death to Islam means freedom for all mankind.")
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To: elcid1970
Only two more shopping days before Smithmas!

LOL

6 posted on 12/20/2011 7:56:12 AM PST by Colofornian (Mormon polygamy: It ain't just for time anymore...Lds tie the plural knot sequentially THESE days)
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To: Colofornian

This is the SIMPLIFIED version? But I guess that’s what happens when a church, a sect, or an individual (say, Kung) simply refuses to accept traditional tenets. What results is a nonreligion, a belief system that requires less and less belief until there’s no needat all for faith. .


7 posted on 12/20/2011 7:57:36 AM PST by Mach9
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To: elcid1970
"As a Catholic, I’m used to being called a"

That is not germane to this thread. Calvinists DO believe in the Virgin Birth. So please stick to the subject of the thread.

8 posted on 12/20/2011 8:19:13 AM PST by sr4402
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To: Colofornian

Of course lds refrain from mentioning their leaders teachings are that a god and Mary had intercourse.


9 posted on 12/20/2011 8:25:19 AM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: Tennessee Nana

No more than Leda was after Zeus in the form of a swan.

Paganism.

Besides, Jesus had to be of the line of David through his earthly father Joseph - how does that work when he is supposedly physically descended from God himself? What is the DNA pattern of God in the flesh?


10 posted on 12/20/2011 8:45:00 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream; Tennessee Nana

The line goes through the mother in Judaism. Always has. Sort of prophetic, huh?


11 posted on 12/20/2011 8:48:42 AM PST by hocndoc (WingRight.org: Have mustard seed, not afraid to use it. Cut spending, now,now,now!)
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To: hocndoc
I specifically meant the beginning of Matthew where the lineage of Jesus, as foretold, would come through the line of David. This was through Joseph.

This is the genealogy[a] of Jesus the Messiah[b] the son of David, the son of Abraham:
2 Abraham was the father of Isaac,
Isaac the father of Jacob,
Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
3 Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,
Perez the father of Hezron,
Hezron the father of Ram,
4 Ram the father of Amminadab,
Amminadab the father of Nahshon,
Nahshon the father of Salmon,
5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,
Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
Obed the father of Jesse,
6 and Jesse the father of King David.

David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah’s wife,
7 Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
Abijah the father of Asa,
8 Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,
Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,
Jehoram the father of Uzziah,
9 Uzziah the father of Jotham,
Jotham the father of Ahaz,
Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,
10 Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,
Manasseh the father of Amon,
Amon the father of Josiah,
11 and Josiah the father of Jeconiah[c] and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.

12 After the exile to Babylon:
Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13 Zerubbabel the father of Abihud,
Abihud the father of Eliakim,
Eliakim the father of Azor,
14 Azor the father of Zadok,
Zadok the father of Akim,
Akim the father of Elihud,
15 Elihud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.

12 posted on 12/20/2011 8:52:59 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: hocndoc

Amusing to me that the VERY BEGINNING of the New Testament is what I have posted above.

You don’t have to get far into Christian theology before Mormonism has major glaring differences - I mean the very first passage of the very first book of the New Testament....

Sort of jumps out at you in that context, no?


13 posted on 12/20/2011 8:55:04 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream
I'll do you one better. The biggest glaring inconsistency with the breakaway LDS sect of Mormonism takes place BEFORE you open the bible, it's when you choose it !

You see God(s) told Joseph Smith not to become a Christian, or use the King James bible because it had been corrupted, and to Translate the Book of Mormon, and re-translate the entire Bible and use them.

Smith founded his own religion, wrote the Book of Mormon and "re-translated" the entire bible as he claimed he was told. He spent several years working on just the bible re-translation.

After Smith's death FLDS/LDS "prophet" Brigham Young declared the entire Joseph Smith Translation (JST) of the bible to be a fraud, so the LDS sect does not use it to this very day.

In review...God(s) told Smith don't join Christians, retranslate the bible, and don't use the KJV. Forward to today...Any LDS sect member will tell you that Smith was a prophet of God(s), they are Christians, they don't use the JST bible, but they use the KJV.

Not only are the wealthy SLC folks not Christians, they are not even mormons after abandoning Joseph Smith's bible translation ! ....And Oh yeah, we should vote for Romney because of a prophecy about a "white horse".

14 posted on 12/20/2011 9:32:05 AM PST by SENTINEL (Romney is to Conservatism what Mormonism is to Christianity.)
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To: elcid1970

As a “predestined Calvinist,” I’ve never called a Catholic a drunk. Furthermore, as a “predestined Calvinist,” I would count it a good day to only be accused of rejecting the Bible, worshiping a mere human, and being a drunk. As horrid as those things are, there are even worse things that can and often have been said against those who hold the grace of God in high regard.

But I seem to remember something Paul said about how love doesn’t even remember the evils done against it. A beneficial amnesia, which would greatly enhance the quality of these discussions if more commonly practiced.


15 posted on 12/20/2011 9:33:12 AM PST by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: allmendream

It isn’t up to me or anyone else to tell Mormons what to believe.
Just as it isn’t up to Mormons to tell me what to believe.

Mormons aren’t trying to kill me behead me or enslave me.

If they believe God came down from heaven as a man and had sex with Mary, that is their problem.

I choose to believe that she was impregnated by the Holy Ghost without carrying out the sex act. Virgin Birth.Virgin till death.

It is a matter of Faith. I believe in the Apostle’s Creed.


16 posted on 12/20/2011 9:36:22 AM PST by Venturer
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To: Venturer

No, you were not directed by God to spread the ‘good news’?

Wouldn’t that be telling Mormons (and others) what to believe?


17 posted on 12/20/2011 9:39:25 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: Colofornian

This is a non-issue. What Mormons think or say about the Virgin Birth is totally inconsequential.

Mormonism is not Trinitarian. It is therefore not Christian, because the Trinity is the primordial, fundamental revelation of Christianity. It is more fundamental and more important than any particular aspect of the earthly life of Jesus.

I don’t care what theological views a candidate or a candidate’s church may hold, except insofar as they might reveal what he will do in office. And I ALREADY know what Romney will do in office: Make nice; muddle through; play defense.


18 posted on 12/20/2011 9:45:41 AM PST by Arthur McGowan (In Edward Kennedy's America, federal funding of brothels is a right, not a privilege.)
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To: Venturer
"Mormons aren’t trying to kill me behead me or enslave me."

You may be interested to know that FLDS/LDS "prophets" repeatedly taught that beheading was an appropriate punishment for both leaving the cult, questioning the word of the "prophets", marrying a black girl etc.

“I say, rather than that apostates should flourish here, I will unsheath [sic] my bowie knife, and conquer or die [Great commotion in the congregation, and a simultaneous burst of feeling, assenting to the declaration.]. Now, you nasty apostates, clear out, or judgment will be put to the line, and righteousness to the plummet [Voices, generally, ‘go it, go it.’]. If you say it is right, raise your hands [All hands up.]. Let us call upon the Lord to assist us in this, and every good work.”
- FLDS/LDS "Prophet" Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 1, p. 83

“In debate, George A. Smith said imprisonment was better than hanging. “I replied, I was opposed to hanging, even if a man kill another, I WILL SHOOT HIM, OR CUT OFF HIS HEAD, SPILL HIS BLOOD on the ground, and let the smoke thereof ascend up to God; and if ever I have the privilege of making a law on that subject, I will have it so.”
(History of the Church, by FLDS/LDS "prophet" Joseph Smith, Vol. 5, p. 296

Modern day salt lake sect mormon are justifyably ASHAMED of this and try their best to hide it.

19 posted on 12/20/2011 9:57:57 AM PST by SENTINEL (Romney is to Conservatism what Mormonism is to Christianity.)
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To: Springfield Reformer
As a “predestined Calvinist,” I’ve never called a Catholic a drunk. Furthermore, as a “predestined Calvinist,” I would count it a good day to only be accused of rejecting the Bible, worshiping a mere human, and being a drunk. As horrid as those things are, there are even worse things that can and often have been said against those who hold the grace of God in high regard.

But I seem to remember something Paul said about how love doesn’t even remember the evils done against it. A beneficial amnesia, which would greatly enhance the quality of these discussions if more commonly practiced.

Very well said. Thank you.

20 posted on 12/20/2011 10:40:34 AM PST by lupie
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To: svcw
Of course lds refrain from mentioning their leaders teachings are that a god and Mary had intercourse. . . . . .

_______________________________________________________

You I think are right, but, I think it is because they don't believe it.

Mary was a virgin when approached by the angel Gabriel. I don't know what it meant when the Holy Bible says that Gabriel said that “The Holy Ghost will come upon you”.

Because of the science and medical advancements I have seen in my life and because of artificial insemination, because of cloning and countless other miraculous medical procedures I don't believe that Mary had “sex” with anybody. That having been said, something did happen to her. She was impregnated and she did not have sex with her then betrothed, Joseph until after the birth of Jesus.

For anyone to think they knew how this happened is silly, no matter who it is that says it, it is conjecture. It is silly, meaningless conjecture at that. When Mary became pregnant with The Christ Child in her womb she had never known a man. The Holy Ghost is not a man. Mormons teach that in some plane of existance that The Holy Ghost was indeed a man but that now he is Glorified, a God, a member of Godhead which is the ruling body of the universe. It is impossible for people to understand that there was no beginning, that God has never been anything but God. The question always remains how did that start? The questions of how it started is one with no answer. If there is an answer we will not know it in this life. It is not important to know it in this life, it changes nothing. God is God.

21 posted on 12/20/2011 12:30:30 PM PST by JAKraig (Surely my religion is at least as good as yours)
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To: allmendream

We can tell them, they don’t have to listen.


22 posted on 12/20/2011 12:55:14 PM PST by Venturer
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To: Tennessee Nana
The Mormons do not believe Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus...

The Mormons deny that Jesus Christ is God, the only God there is. They deny the Word of God and his revelation and the exact nature of his manifestation in the flesh. They worship a "creature" (just another god in an endless cycle of gods), not the Creator, the only God there is, without beginning, without end. It's idolatry.

23 posted on 12/20/2011 1:05:13 PM PST by nonsporting
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To: Venturer

Nowhere did I insist they had to listen or read what I had to say - but it is a rather salient and amusing point as to their congruence with Christianity that they have major points of divergence with the very first passages of the very first book of the New Testament.

It is also amusing and a salient point that their ‘prophet’ invented a history that has no basis in reality as far as genetics, linguistics, archeology or elsewhere.

I mean it is exactly what you would expect if their religious texts, rather than being revelations from God, were a shoddy half asses badly written invented history and bizarre theology written by an ignorant conman.


24 posted on 12/20/2011 1:08:18 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream

History is filled with theological con-men.
beats working for a living.

Ask Jesse or Al Or Jeremiah Wright.

Ask Jimmy Swaggart.Benny Hinn.


25 posted on 12/20/2011 1:32:06 PM PST by Venturer
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To: Venturer

“Mormons aren’t trying to kill me behead me or enslave me.”

... they are doing two out of three, but of course, not physically.


26 posted on 12/20/2011 2:08:27 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (You know, 99.99999965% of the lawyers give all of them a bad name)
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To: Colofornian

http://stevebloor.wordpress.com/2011/12/18/letter-to-ward-members-re-resignation-as-their-bishop/#comment-244


27 posted on 12/21/2011 8:11:53 PM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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