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Exploring: The Church Began with a Prophet [Mormon Merry Smithmas Day!]
Liahona Magazine (Official Magazine of the Mormon Church) ^ | December 1993 | Sherrie Johnson

Posted on 12/23/2011 9:13:15 AM PST by Colofornian

The history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints began in the Sacred Grove when fourteen-year-old Joseph Smith prayed to know which church was true. But Heavenly Father had been preparing Joseph Smith throughout his life for that marvelous First Vision—the most important message the world has received since the time of Jesus Christ. This preparation began on December 23, 1805, in Sharon, Vermont, when Joseph Smith, Jr., was born.

(Excerpt) Read more at lds.org ...


TOPICS: History; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Worship
KEYWORDS: church; inman; josephsmith; lds; mormon
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From the article's headline: ...The Church Began with a Prophet...

Lds Doctrine & Covenants 1:30 says that the Mormon Church "is the ONLY true and living church on the face of the earth" (D&C 1:30).

[So much for "Good will" and cheer to all Christian churches who claim the name of Jesus Christ every Christmas season!]

When you couple D&C 1:30 with this headline: That "the church began with a prophet" -- it means this headline implies that the only true and living church began with a man named Joseph Smith.

No headline credit to Jesus Christ.
No focus on the Church Jesus Christ began in the first century.

And, of course, the Mormon church can't focus on that historic church. Why not?

Because it claims that church went down in flames. A 100% apostasy...or as close to 100% as you can get.

Joseph Smith even boasted at one point that he was the ONLY man who ever knew how to keep a church together. He specifically said Jesus Christ didn't do it. (Yeah, I know. Blasphemy)

And if there was no "universal apostasy" -- a topic that 52,000 Mormon missionaries broach regularly with contacts...then there's no need for a "restoration"...no need for the existence of the Mormon church.

The presence of such a built-from-scratch church would all be superflous. Redundant. Unnecessary.

Mormon leaders know that.

So in that sense, whatever "peaceful co-existence" there is between the Mormon church and worldwide Christianity, it's really a mere surface public relations' type of "tolerance."

Underneath that surface, Mormonism's spiritual militancy is such that if it allows the worldwide Christian church to be acknowledged as one authorized by Jesus Christ...then its own very existence is called into question.

And you can't have that. (Not if you're a true believing Mormon, that is).

From the December article: This preparation began on December 23, 1805, in Sharon, Vermont, when Joseph Smith, Jr., was born.

Merry Smithmas Day to all Mormons! May you know that the apostle Paul said in Ephesians 6 that we fight NOT vs. flesh and blood!

No Mormon is our enemy! Every Mormon is of tremendous value to God and to us as Christians!

He or she is of such value that our Father-who-was-always-God-from-eternity-past (and was never a man) sent His everlasting-Son-from-Eternal-Past to become a baby in need of "diaper" changes while in a manger low some 2,000 years ago.

And that Christ child went on to show the value of each Mormon by dying for their sin nature and their personal sins on the cross.

May all who identify themselves as "Mormon" have a truly Merry Christmas!

1 posted on 12/23/2011 9:13:20 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

I lump Smith in with Mohammad.


2 posted on 12/23/2011 9:17:05 AM PST by Dallas59 (President Robert Gibbs 2009-2011)
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To: Colofornian

3 posted on 12/23/2011 9:24:26 AM PST by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: Colofornian

The lds denies Jesus is the Creator of EVERYTHING.

They lie.

They lie.

They lie.


4 posted on 12/23/2011 9:25:33 AM PST by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: Colofornian
Joseph Smith, Napoleon Bonaparte, and the Rosetta Stone, read it and weep for anybody still convinced that Joseph Smith was any sort of a prophet...
5 posted on 12/23/2011 9:26:11 AM PST by varmintman
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To: Colofornian

Your relentless religious bigotry against the mormon church is beginning to drive me away from this site. A site I have come to rely on for news and comment over the past ten years.


6 posted on 12/23/2011 9:29:08 AM PST by jwatz49
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To: Dallas59
I lump Smith in with Mohammad.

Well, they both said "angels" appeared to them. (Muhammed even thought it was a jinn -- a demon -- at first). Which resulted in extra "revelations."

And per the head of the Lds apostles in 1838 -- Thomas B. Marsh -- who swore out an affidavit re: Joseph Smith...so did Smith:

I have heard the Prophet say that he would yet tread down his enemies, and walk over their dead bodies; and if he was not let alone, he would be a second Mohammed to this generation, and that he would make it one gore of blood from the Rocky mountains to the Atlantic ocean; that like Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was, 'the Alcoran or the Sword.'
Source: Lds 'apostle' affidavit about Smith-as-Mohammed

7 posted on 12/23/2011 9:30:18 AM PST by Colofornian (Mormon polygamy: It ain't just for time anymore...Lds tie the plural knot sequentially THESE days)
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To: jwatz49
IOW, your intolerance of my religious vantage point is beginning to rise...and you don't like to think of yourself as religiously intolerant...yet apparently you are...and you don't like that...

Btw, isn't "intolerance" what "bigotry" means?

8 posted on 12/23/2011 9:32:10 AM PST by Colofornian (Mormon polygamy: It ain't just for time anymore...Lds tie the plural knot sequentially THESE days)
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To: Colofornian

When Christ tells Smith he never knew him.....


9 posted on 12/23/2011 9:35:40 AM PST by Dallas59 (President Robert Gibbs 2009-2011)
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To: Colofornian

“A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs. The predominant usage in modern English refers to persons hostile to those of differing sex, race, ethnicity, religious beliefs or spirituality...”

You need to own this.


10 posted on 12/23/2011 9:37:22 AM PST by jwatz49
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To: Colofornian

Not surprised


11 posted on 12/23/2011 9:38:53 AM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: Colofornian
Are the Joseph Smith nativity scenes set up again this year?

Joseph Smith Nativity Pictures, Images and Photos

The caption reads: "We are the beneficiaries of the "restored gospel" of Jesus Christ a work which had its earthly commencement with the birth of the Prophet Joseph Smith in the hills of Vermont on a December day in 1805. As we commemorate the birth of the baby in Bethlehem, the Savior of the world, may we also remember his messenger Joseph Smith, and rejoice in his live and sacrifice.

12 posted on 12/23/2011 9:39:01 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Holy, Holy, Holy..."God in Three Persons, Blessed Trinity")
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To: Colofornian
The history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints began in the Sacred Grove when fourteen-year-old Joseph Smith prayed to know which church was true.

Speaking historically, and not theologically, that depends on which of the accounts of the First Vision you accept. That age and purpose are not in the first version of the First Vision as written by Joseph Smith, Jr.. That is what appears in the fourth version, chronologically, which was dictated in 1838, six years after the first version was handwritten by Smith in 1832. Not all of the versions, including the version written in Joseph Smith, Jr.'s hand, place him at fourteen. And saying there is more than one version of the First Vision doesn't make me 'anti-Mormon.' On its official website, the LDS Church states:

'On at least four different occasions, Joseph Smith either wrote or dictated to scribes accounts of his sacred experience of 1820. Possibly he penned or dictated other histories of the First Vision; if so, they have not been located. The four surviving recitals of this theophany were prepared or rendered through different scribes, at different times, from a different perspective, for different purposes and to different audiences. It is not surprising, therefore, that each of them emphasizes different aspects of his experience.

That is how the LDS Church reconciles the differences among the different versions of the First Vision. See also the official LDS source here. Other sources simply view them as inconsistent and irreconcilable versions of the First Vision.

In Joseph's Smith's first, handwritten account, he was sixteen. This is not accepted by the LDS Church as the official version.

Among the versions, the purpose for Smith's visit to the woods differs, the number of spiritual parties who visits him differ, whether it was a "visitation of angels," as first written, two personages, or one. The fourth version has been accepted as the official version by the LDS Church. That's where the age of fourteen, and going to pray regarding which church is true, comes from.

This is not a theological comment, but a historical one. Please consult the LDS website and historical sources for discussions regarding the different versions of the First Vision. I respect the rights of FR members to believe as they choose; I do not, however respect the rights of all to practice their religious beliefs (for example, I would draw the line at human sacrifice).

13 posted on 12/23/2011 9:41:54 AM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: Colofornian

What does the Old Testament say about a false prophet? Guess it worked with Joseph Smith, Jr.


14 posted on 12/23/2011 9:42:45 AM PST by SkyDancer ("If You Want To Learn To Love Better, You Should Start With A Friend Who You Hate")
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To: Colofornian

“the Sacred Grove”
___________________________________

Capitalized and all...

God had the prophets of old cut down “the sacred groves” amd break down the “high places” and the altars to Baal and Ashtoreth and Molech..

The Mormons include them in their pagan worship..


15 posted on 12/23/2011 9:43:00 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: jwatz49
Oh, baloney. If you don't like religious forum discussions don't look at the thread.
You accuse. bigotry yet fail to point any out.
If you are lds, then defend it. Calling some one a bigot and other assorted names as nothing to defense of something you may believe.
16 posted on 12/23/2011 9:44:29 AM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: Scoutmaster
I apologize. I meant to link articles on the various First Vision accounts from Dialogue: A journal of Mormon Thought and from Brigham Young University Studies
17 posted on 12/23/2011 9:45:53 AM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: jwatz49; Colofornian
"You need to own this."

Problem is that we're not hostile towards "those". We're "hostile" towards the system, the doctrines, tenets, etc. The aspects of mormonism that misleads, denies mormons the saving grace of Christ. I've yet to see any just jump on these threads and claim they hate someone simply because they're a mormon. Although there have been many claims made that is the case but can't prove their claim.

Why just the other day, Christians who evangelize about mormonism, were called "Taliban Christians". I wonder, in rebuttal, based on that person's understanding, can I call the 52,000 mormon missionaries around the world, "Taliban Mormons"? How would that go over? .

Of course, there will be those who claim the two are inseparable, but none have been able to show that, yet, since it's entirely subjective.

Merry Christmas.

18 posted on 12/23/2011 9:49:38 AM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Colofornian

You keep right on being salt and light on this cult. The truth is often called intollerance.


19 posted on 12/23/2011 9:50:31 AM PST by freemama
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To: jwatz49

Welcome to the Religion Forum - a place for RELIGIOUS commentary. If you want POLITICAL commentary, there are many other forums here in FR more suited to you.


20 posted on 12/23/2011 9:52:28 AM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: jwatz49

You don’t have to click on the RF and you don’t have to click on the article if it is bothersome.

Use your free agency and be accountable for your own decisions, but don’t blame FR and JR for providing the forum where people discuss things others may find unpalatable.


21 posted on 12/23/2011 9:52:54 AM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Colofornian
Btw, isn't "intolerance" what "bigotry" means?

Actually, "mormonism" is what bigotry means...the mormon church elevated bigotry to its highest level ever when Joseph Smith founded his sect on the premise that all other creeds were wrong, and the leaders following him piled on with more and more bigotry against Christians.

52,000 mormon missionaries go out every day, and preach three minutes of hate....that's real bigotry!

{Knock...Knock}

{Door opens}....uninvited, two young men in white shirts and ties and nametags (of 52,000 similar young men worldwide) greet the Christian homeowner...

"We have come to tell you about the news that the Gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored after being taken from the earth because no one was worthy to follow Jesus' Apostles until Joseph Smith became a prophet....and to show you how you can spend eternity with your wife and family in the presence of God and Jesus Christ...if only you will join the mormon church and leave your Christian belief behind."

"Just read this book, pray about it and you will receive a message from the Holy Ghost that the only way to salvation is by being baptized and confirmed as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, after which if you obey the rules which govern what you drink, what you wear and how much tithing is required, you MAY be worthy to enter our temple and take part in arcane rituals that will bind God to recognize them and grant you exaltation".

THAT IS THREE MINUTES OF HATE!...MULTIPLIED 26,000 TIMES PER DAY.

22 posted on 12/23/2011 9:53:26 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Holy, Holy, Holy..."God in Three Persons, Blessed Trinity")
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To: greyfoxx39
the mormon church elevated bigotry to its highest level ever when Joseph Smith founded his sect on the premise that all other creeds were wrong

Hmm. In the 1832 and two 1835 versions of the First Vision, Smith doesn't say he was told that all other creeds were wrong. The 1838 and 1842 versions (the official version published in Times and Seasons and dated back to 1838) of the First Vision stated that two personages told Smith that all churches are corrupt.

Of course, the whole reliance upon The First Vision is an interesting thing, historically, because the LDS Church didn't rely upon The First Vision as an integral part of its teachings until the early 1880s. It was Joseph F. Smith, as President (Prophet) who made the 1842/1883 version of the First Vision part of the LDS Canon in 1880. When Gordon B. Hinckley said in 1998 that "[o]ur entire case as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints rests on the validity of this glorious First Vision," he was talking about something that wasn't even a material part of the church's teachings for its first 50 years of its existence.

23 posted on 12/23/2011 10:03:13 AM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: jwatz49; Colofornian

These statements and more demonstrate the seperateness of Christianity and Mormonism.

The only reason they say "We are Christian" is an attempt to morph into something they are not and co-opt Christianity.

 

"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world"
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 270

"...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels."
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. , The Elders Journal, v. 1, no. 4, p. 60

"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world."
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p.

"Christians—those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers' sermons —preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born. ...You may get a Methodist priest to pour water on you, or sprinkle it on you, and baptize you face foremost, or lay you down the other way, and whatever mode you please, and you will be damned with your priest.
- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 89

"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast."
- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 225

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the ‘whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent."
- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 255

"After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon."
- Apostle George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, p. 324

Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls.”
- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, see pp. 45-46

"I was answered that I must join none of them (Christian Churches), for they were all wrong...that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight" (Joseph Smith History 1:19).

"...orthodox Christian views of God are Pagan rather than Christian." (Mormon Doctrine of Deity by B.H. Roberts, p.116)

"...the God whom the 'Christians' worship is a being of their own creation..." (Apostle Charles W. Penrose, JD 23:243)

"The Christian world, so called, are heathens as to their knowledge of the salvation of God." (Brigham Young, JD 8:171)

"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute best." (John Taylor, JD 13:225)

"What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing...Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God." (John Taylor, JI) 13:225)

"Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.177)

"...brother Joseph B. Nobles once told a Methodist priest, after hearing him describe his god, that the god they worshiped was the "Mormon's" Devil-a being without a body, whereas our God has a body, parts and passions." (Brigham Young, JD 5:331)

"...the great apostate church as the anti-christ...This great antichrist...is the church of the devil." (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine p.40)

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the "whore of Babylon" whom the lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness." (Pratt, The Seer, p.255)

 

“God is not at its head, making that church [i.e., Christianity] – following the appearance in it of Satan – no longer the church of God. To say that Satan sits in the place of God in Christianity after the time of the apostles is not to say that all that is in it is Satanic.”
- Kent P. Jackson, “Early Signs of Apostasy,” Ensign, December 1984, p. 9

1 Nephi 14:10 "Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of god, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth."

"Orthodox Christian views of God are pagan rather than Christian" (Mormon Doctrine of Deity, B. H. Roberts [General Authority], 116).

Brigham Young: “…and he that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is Antichrist.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol 9 pg 312).

Mormon Apostle Hyrum M. Smith,- “In fact, my brethren and sisters, if the falsity of a religion can be measured in any degree by the amount of trouble and turmoil and strife and bitterness and hatred that it has engendered in the hearts of men, if it can be judged by the number of wars it has carried on and the rivers of blood it has shed, the amount of misery and sorrow, it has caused, or the extremes of impurity, found among its adherents, then Christianity, that which is known as Christianity, is the falsest of all religions in the world… The trouble is, as God declared to Joseph the Prophet, mankind have gone astray. Their religions are an abomination in his sight, and their professors are corrupt because they have turned away from the truth and have turned unto fables.” (Conference Report, October 1916, p.43).

 

 

The plaque above is found in Temple Square with Joseph Smith a top it.

Do the Latter Day Saints corporately and collectively believe this and support that view point?  Of course they do.  Otherwise, if there is no resurrected church then there is no LDS.

But everyone outside their group is "Anti-Mormon"?  LOL  They are Anti-Christian and seek not only to undermine Christianity and their beliefs but outright work to subordinate one man to another, in that one must accept the Prophets words as sacrosanct and inviolable.

No man pays fealty to another as their superior because their so called god ordains it.

?
24 posted on 12/23/2011 10:18:47 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: jwatz49; Colofornian

You know, I kind of object to being called a whore.

The apostate thing doesn’t really bother me.

I also object to being called stupid by your church leaders.

I also object to being called ignorant by your church leaders.

We are also poor and miserable by definition of your church leaders.

There is a certain adolescence comparing others to and ignorant beast, who happen to be outside your religion.

Whore Master? LOL Now that one is rich. Personally, if you can’t sweet talk your way.... fuhget aboud it....

Pagans? check....

Heathens? check....

Gracer? Well, alrighty then...

“...the God whom the ‘Christians’ worship is a being of their own creation...” You have to admit that’s just a bit duplicitous and oh so rich....


25 posted on 12/23/2011 10:27:29 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: SZonian

“Taliban Christians”????

NO one gave me a rag do to wear...


26 posted on 12/23/2011 10:30:20 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Scoutmaster; greyfoxx39

I'm on a horse....

 

The plaque above is found in Temple Square with Joseph Smith a top it.

Do the Latter Day Saints corporately and collectively believe this and support that view point?  Of course they do.  Otherwise, if there is no resurrected church then there is no LDS.

But everyone outside their group is "Anti-Mormon"?  LOL  They are Anti-Christian and seek not only to undermine Christianity and their beliefs but outright work to subordinate one man to another, in that one must accept the Prophets words as sacrosanct and inviolable.

No man pays fealty to another as their superior because thier so called god ordains it.


27 posted on 12/23/2011 10:32:25 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: jwatz49
And the LDS Church’s continued denigration and misrepresention of MY savior and brother Jesus Christ makes me support exposing their falsehoods more and more.

So get used to it or enter the light of the true Christ and walk away from false prophets and wacky non Christian beliefs.

28 posted on 12/23/2011 10:58:23 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Scoutmaster
"all churches are corrupt." "all other creeds were wrong"....notice I stated that he founded his sect on the premise that all other creeds were wrong.

I don't see where your post invalidates my statement.

The same premise continues to this day with the "only true church" meme of mormons and illuminates the bigotry.

29 posted on 12/23/2011 11:07:53 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Holy, Holy, Holy..."God in Three Persons, Blessed Trinity")
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To: jwatz49
...devoted...

I'm glad you included this word at least in the def you provided.

"Bigot" is etymologically tied to "Beguines." It was used abusively in French for the Beguines, members of a Roman Catholic lay sisterhood, with the meaning of attaching "excessive devotion" to this sisterhood...(yeah, the devoted do get slapped around a bit).

So, “bigot” in its original usage was tied to perceived intolerance. (I don’t know if the Beguines were actually intolerant or not). The Beguines were probably at least perceived as practicing "spiritual one-upsmanship"--and others didn't like it--they felt looked down upon. Perhaps they felt scorned because such sisterhoods tended to isolate themselves more and because of that, the Beguines perhaps were perceived as being spiritually snooty ("we don't like how excessively devoted they are").

But to wind this back to what I said. "Bigot" is originally tied to "excessive devotion." I suppose it's possible that the Beguines were indeed "excessively devoted." (It's also just as possible that the other Catholics' perception was largely wrong...but once a reputation develops...). But let's just say they were excessively devoted. If that's the name-slinging you wish to engage in, Jwatz, I'll just take the high road and claim a historical context.

But if you want to insist on a contemporary usage of that term -- that "bigot" means "intolerant" -- then you need to answer this Q. Because aren't you showing religious intolerance toward us? On what grounds is your "intolerance" so "allowable" and therefore elitist, whereas anyone else's perceived "intolerance" is called into question?

30 posted on 12/23/2011 11:20:04 AM PST by Colofornian (Mormon polygamy: It ain't just for time anymore...Lds tie the plural knot sequentially THESE days)
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To: jwatz49; Colofornian

Please explain jwatz, why on earth you would see the TRUTH as ‘religious bigotry’.

I thank God for people like Colo, who bluntly told me the truth about Mormonism and made me mad enough to find out that Mormonism was a lie from the pit of Hell.


31 posted on 12/23/2011 12:11:23 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: greyfoxx39
I don't see where your post invalidates my statement.

The same premise continues to this day with the "only true church" meme of mormons and illuminates the bigotry.

I apologize. I know that the "Only True Church" is something that is part of what the LDS Church teaches and has taught for years. It's an integral part of LDS teachings, including the concept of exaltation, the Celestial Kingdom, and the ability to become a god over your own planet Most religions teach it to some extent; however, I don't see 50,000+ Methodist missionaries going door-to-door telling me that the Baptist and LDS Churches are wrong. The LDS Church doesn't just send missionaries to places where people have never heard The Gospel; it sends missionaries to Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, and Lutherans to convert them to Mormons.

I was only pointing out everyone - including members of the LDS Church and the authors of this article at www.lds.org - who are focused on the early history of the church and the importance of the First Vision often neglect to note that (a) there are multiple, conflicting accounts of the First Vision, (b) the version of the First Vision accepted as the official version isn't the first version, chronologically, written by Smith himself, and (c) the First Vision was not an integral part of the teachings of the LDS Church until 1880. In fact, it was mentioned so rarely before 1880 that specific dates of mention are generally known.

I apologize if it appeared I was invalidating your statement.

32 posted on 12/23/2011 12:36:53 PM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: Colofornian
The Church Began with a FALSE Prophet...
33 posted on 12/23/2011 1:31:27 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Dallas59
I lump Smith in with Mohammad.

No need to; as JS already did it!!!


 

“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1]

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

  • Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

  • Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

  • Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

  • As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

  • Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

  • Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

  • Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

  • Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

  • Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, believe Mohammed’s son was to be their next leader. Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith's followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith's own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

  • Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith's claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.


[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.




34 posted on 12/23/2011 1:32:33 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
Lds Doctrine & Covenants 1:30 says that the Mormon Church "is the ONLY true and living church on the face of the earth" (D&C 1:30).

[So much for "Good will" and cheer to all Christian churches who claim the name of Jesus Christ every Christmas season!]


Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

35 posted on 12/23/2011 1:34:41 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: jwatz49
Your relentless religious bigotry against the mormon church is beginning to drive me away from this site.

Can't fight the FACTS of MORMONism?

Then I guess you should leave.

Come on back any time though; as WE'LL still be here...

36 posted on 12/23/2011 1:36:13 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: jwatz49
Your relentless religious bigotry against the mormon church is beginning to drive me away from this site.

...relentless bigotry against the ISLAMic religion is beginning to drive me away from this site.

Nah...

...it does NOT have the same sense of victimhood.

37 posted on 12/23/2011 1:37:55 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Dallas59
When Christ tells Smith he never knew him.....


JESUS: Hey Smith!       Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?

JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?

JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?

JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!

JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.

JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!

JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.

JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.

JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?

JOSEPH SMITH: This? “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30)

JESUS: That's it.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: Nah - it was right.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.

JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Eternal Covenant' that you came up with.

JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!

JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?

JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....

JESUS: What did you say?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.

JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.

JESUS: No...

JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?

JESUS: Nope.

JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!

JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: No; it wasn't.

JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?

JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?

JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.

JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.

JOSEPH SMITH: But.... 

38 posted on 12/23/2011 1:39:53 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: jwatz49
You need to own this.

Speaking of OWNING...

Do you AGREE with or REPUDIATE the words of MORMON leaders found in reply #33?

39 posted on 12/23/2011 1:42:23 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Scoutmaster
Speaking historically, and not theologically, that depends on which of the accounts of the First Vision you accept.

Why ALL of them; of course!!

--MormonDude(Just like the Gospels!)

40 posted on 12/23/2011 1:43:45 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Scoutmaster
Version Number
When Published
Brief Description
Age/Year Evil Power Pillar of
Light or Fire
Number of
Personages
Father Son Question:
Join What
Sect
Remarks
Official Version,
 Mormon scripture,
 Pearl of Great Price
p. 47, 48, 1974 Ed.
Age 14

1820

Yes Yes

Light

2 Yes Yes Join None Lucy, Hyrum, Samuel, Sopronia
Join Presbyterian Church 1820
Paper by Joseph Smith,
Times and Seasons
March, April 1842
Same as item 1 above
Letter from Joseph Smith
to John Wentworth,
 editor Chicago Democrat
1841 account
Published March 1,1842
None given No No 2 ? ? No question,
told all
incorrect
Joseph Smith's First Vision
by Milton V. Backman Jr.
Bookcraft, Appendix D.
Ensign, Jan.1985, p. 16
Both looked the Same
They spoke
Dictated by Joseph Smith,
in hand of
 James Mulholland, 1838
Same as item 1 above, first known account of the official version.
Ensign,
 Jan. 1985 p. 14
Joseph Smith's diary of 1835, Recorded by
 Warren Cowdery
 Nov. 9, 1835, conversation of Joseph Smith with Joshua
Joseph, about 14 No
Tongue seemed swollen; heard someone; at first couldn't pray
Yes

Fire

One, and then another like unto the first ? ? No question, told sins are forgiven, Jesus Christ is the Son of God
Joseph Smith's First Vision
 by Milton V. Backman Jr. Bookcraft, Appendix B
Second spoke.
Saw many angels
Messenger & Advocate
by Oliver Cowdery supervised by
 Joseph Smith
 Feb. 1835
 p. 77-79;
 Also see Dec. 1834 p. 43
Joseph 17

1823

No Yes 1
No No No question told sin are forgiven Note on pg. 78 that the revival was in 1823 (NOT 1820) so this must be the First Vision.
Messenger from God
Dictated by Joseph Smith
 to F. G. Williams Summer to Nov. 1832
Joseph 14 or 16 No Yes 1 No Yes No question, told "None doeth good", sins forgiven
Joseph Smith's First Vision
 by Milton V. Backman Jr. Bookcraft, Appendix A
Saw Lord (Jesus) he "spoke"
Written by Joseph Smith, 1832 diary Joseph 15 No Yes 1 No Yes No question, told sins forgiven all do no good
Ensign,
 Dec. 1984 pgs. 24-26
 Jan. 1985 pg. 11
Saw the Lord Jesus Christ (said He was crucified)
Early Church leaders
 B. Young,
 G. A. Smith,
 J. Taylor
Joseph 15 No No 1 No No Join None Journal of Discourses, 2:171; 18:239; 13:77,78; 20:167; 12:333,334
Saw an angel, and asked the angel


41 posted on 12/23/2011 1:44:17 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: SkyDancer
What does the Old Testament say about a false prophet? Guess it worked with Joseph Smith, Jr.

In 1976, the 137th section of Doctrine & Covenants (D&C) was submitted to the general conference of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for a vote to be "sustained" as scripture. It is a narrative of a vision supposedly seen by Joseph Smith in Kirtland, OH in 1836.

What the members who voted on this new addition to scripture were not told by "the Brethren," is that whole paragraphs (216 words) of the actual revelation as recorded in The History of the Church had been conveniently left out of the version to be included in the D&C. The reason for these omissions was that four obviously false prophecies were contained in the part of the revelation that was censored out. These were prophecies so obviously false that even the average LDS reader would pick them up. Therefore, they went down the "black hole" of Mormon history.

What exactly were in these missing parts? Well, if you go to the official history of the LDS church published by the church's own publishing company, you will be easily able to find the missing prophecies. Here is what is not in the new D&C 137:

[Joseph Smith:] "....I saw the Twelve Apostles of the Lamb, who are now upon the earth, who hold the keys of this last ministry, in foreign lands, standing together in a circle, much fatigued, with their clothes tattered and their feet swollen, with their eyes cast downward, and Jesus standing in their midst, and they did not behold him. The Saviour looked upon them and wept.

I also beheld Elder M'Lellin in the south, standing upon a hill, surrounded by a vast multitude, preaching to them, and a lame man standing before him supported by his crutches; he threw them down at his word and leaped as a hart, by the mighty power of God.

Also, I saw Elder Brigham Young standing in a strange land, in the far south and west, in a desert place, upon a rock in the midst of a bout a dozen men of color, who appeared hostile. He was preaching to them in their own tongue, and the angel of God standing above his head with a drawn sword in his hand, protecting him, but he did not see it.

And I finally saw the Twelve in the celestial kingdom of God. I also beheld the redemption of Zion and many things which the tongue of man cannot describe in full"

Now, if this were true, it was a truly inspiring and wonderful declaration! Unfortunately, for the LDS faithful, a short look at the official history of the church reveals the false prophecies contained therein.

 

First of all, Smith claimed to see his (original LDS) Twelve apostles all in the celestial kingdom. This is difficult to imagine, since there was already division between Smith and the majority of the Apostles, beginning with discord in Kirtland, Ohio. The first portion of the "missing words" shows his less than subtle rebuke of their resistance to his will. "...fatigued....tattered...eyes cast downward....The Saviour looked upon them and wept." Smith was calling them to get into line and submit themselves to his full authority. That's the carrot offered in the last portion, "I finally saw the Twelve in the Celestial Kingdom of God."

However, his "thus saith the Lord" must have had little effect on them, since at least seven of the twelve under discussion were soon excommunicated or apostatized from the church: John F. Boynton & Luke S. Johnson (1837), Lyman Johnson (1838), William E. M'Lellin (c.1838), Thomas B. Marsh & Orson Hyde (1838), and William Smith (1845)

How could they have ever attained the celestial kingdom under those conditions? They couldn't! They were not only accursed by their very acts of apostasy or excommunication, but fell victim to the LDS Church's own scriptural denunciation. D&C 84.40-41 clearly states:

"Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my father, which he cannot break, neither can it be moved. But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth there-from, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come."

Although a few of these men later returned to the church, none of them were even close to the standards necessary for attainment of that highest degree of glory. The majority remained apart for life. Therefore, the prophetic utterance, "I finally saw the Twelve in the Celestial Kingdom of God." was obviously false. It would have been false even if only one Apostle remained outside the fold.

Second, the vision of M'Lellin preaching and working miracles in the south never came true because he apostatized from the church without ever doing it! (See above).

Third, Although Brigham Young did bring the Mormons west and was a great colonizer and orator, the vision of Brigham Young preaching to "men of color" in their own language, in some strange and faraway place in the southwest never took place either, or at least there is no trace of it in the very detailed records and diaries concerning his reign as prophet.

Finally, "Zion" (Independence, MO.) was never redeemed, has never been redeemed in the 150+ years since the prophecy was made. (See below, for more on Zion). Is it any wonder that the Brethren chose to remove whole chunks of this "inspired" revelation?

Four false prophecies for the price of one! (from –> http://saintsalive.com/resourcelibrary/mormonism/testing-the-prophecies-of-joseph-smith- )

 

 

We do not know whether or not some instructions through prophets were not included because they were judged to be false or unreliable.

Hold this thought...

 
 
 
 

42 posted on 12/23/2011 1:45:58 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: SZonian
Use your free agency and be accountable for your own decisions, but don’t blame FR and JR for providing the forum where people discuss things others may find unpalatable.

Speaking of unpalatable; now that COLD weather is finally here, the good, Temple Mormons can go back to eating MEAT again!!


 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 89
 
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.
 
1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.
 
  1 A aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—
  2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—
  3 Given for a principle with apromise, adapted to the capacity of the bweak and the weakest of all csaints, who are or can be called saints.
  4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—
  5 That inasmuch as any man adrinketh bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
  6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.
  7 And, again, astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.
  8 And again, tobacco is not for the abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.
  9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.
  10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
  11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with aprudence and bthanksgiving.
  12 Yea, aflesh also of bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used csparingly;
  13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or bfamine.
  14 All agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
  15 And athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.
  16 All grain is good for the afood of man; as also the bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—
  17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.
  18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ashall receive bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;
  19 And shall afind bwisdom and great ctreasures of dknowledge, even hidden treasures;
  20 And shall arun and not be bweary, and shall walk and not faint.
  21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the adestroying angel shall bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.



43 posted on 12/23/2011 1:48:18 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Scoutmaster
...the First Vision stated that two personages told Smith that all churches are corrupt.

Oh?

I could only find data that claimed that ONE 'personage' spoke and the other was SILENT.


NIV Galatians 1:6-9
6. I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--
7. which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8. But even
if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
9. As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
 
Even ANGELs from HEAVEN???
 
 
 
 
 
 
It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound.
When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air.
One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!


 
NIV Galatians 1:6-9
6. I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--
7. which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
9. As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
ANYBODY???
 
 
 
Like this fine looking fellow???



2 Corinthians 11:12-15
12. And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about.
13. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
14. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
15. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 

44 posted on 12/23/2011 1:50:42 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
We do not know whether or not some instructions through prophets were not included because they were judged to be false or unreliable.

Sort of like that Moroni person telling JSjr not to follow any of those Christian sects because they were all wrong, etc.

45 posted on 12/23/2011 2:04:10 PM PST by SkyDancer ("If You Want To Learn To Love Better, You Should Start With A Friend Who You Hate")
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To: Elsie
I could only find data that claimed that ONE 'personage' spoke and the other was SILENT.

You are right; I am wrong. I wrote without having a grid of all of the versions of the First Vision in front of me, or copies of all the versions printed out. And I can only look at one page of Dialogue: A journal of Mormon Thought, or BYU Studies, or www.lds.org at a time.

It would make it easier if there were fewer versions or if they were more similar.

46 posted on 12/23/2011 2:08:28 PM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: SkyDancer
Sort of like that Moroni person telling JSjr not to follow any of those Christian sects because they were all wrong

First, are we talking about Nephi or Moroni? According to Times and Seasons Vol. III pp. 749, 753, which Joseph Smith, Jr. edited:

"When I first looked upon him I was afraid, but the fear soon left me. He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi. That God has a work for me to do, ... He said there was a book deposited written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang."

The digital version of TImes and Seasons has been changed by the LDS Church to read "Moroni" instead of "Nephi." The original printed version edited by Joseph Smith, Jr., is still "Nephi."

The August, 1842, edition of the LDS publication, Millennial Star, printed in England , also published Joseph Smith's story and stated that the angel's name was "Nephi" (see Millennial Star, vol. 3, p.53). On page 71 of the same volume it states that the "...message of the angel Nephi ... opened a new dispensation to man...."

In the 1853 LDS Biographical Sketch (p. 79) of Lucy Mack Smith, the mother of Joseph Smith, Jr., she states that the name of the angel who appeared to Joseph Smith was Nephi.

In both Joseph Smith's handwritten copy of The Pearl of Great Price and the 1851 edition of the same book (page 41) it states:

"He called me by name and said unto me, that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi."

A doctoral candidate at Brigham Young University named Walter L. Whipple wrote a thesis titled "Textual Changes in the Pearl of Great Price." In it he notes that Orson Pratt changed the name from Nephi to Moroni in 1878. Fairmormon.org acknowledges that changes were made to the Pearl of Great Price but leaves a stub link to discuss them eventually.

The 1853 edition of Lucy Mack Smith's "Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith the Prophet and His Progenitors of [for] Many Generations," which refers to the Angel Nephi, was banned by Brigham Young and burned and destroyed, according to the LDS newspaper, The Deseret News, June 21, 1865. It was later republished with the name of Nephi changed to Moroni, among other changes.

So are we talking about Nephi or Moroni?

I'm asking for historical purposes. Because, historically, Joseph Smith, Jr. first identified the angel who appeared to him as Nephi. This is not a theological argument and I respect the rights of all to their religious beliefs. But let's get history straight.

47 posted on 12/23/2011 2:35:44 PM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: Scoutmaster

He’s flipped around so many times on who or what he saw or did. There’s three different versions alone on how he “translated” the Book of Mormon.


48 posted on 12/23/2011 2:37:43 PM PST by SkyDancer ("If You Want To Learn To Love Better, You Should Start With A Friend Who You Hate")
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To: SkyDancer
He’s flipped around so many times on who or what he saw or did.

The angel had no name at all until 1835. In his lifetime, Joseph Smith, Jr. always used the name "Nephi" for the angel with one exception. In the Elder's Journal of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, vol 1, no 3., p 42 (Jul, 1838), he refers to the angel as "Moroni." That's it. If any scholar is aware of any other contemporaneous use by Smith of Moroni during his lifetime, I'd like to know. Joseph Smith, Jr. used "Nephi."

"Moroni" was used by Oliver Cowdry once when Smith was alive and Moroni was used by others after Smith's death. Changes were made to some publications after Smith's death to change Nephi to Moroni.

I'm not talking theology here, I'm talking academics.

LDS Historian Richard L. Anderson admits that the change was made in Pearl of Great Price to Joseph Smith's handwritten use of the name Nephi. He said it was necessary to be consistent with Smith's other uses. However, he doesn't cite any other use by Smith. And to my knowledge no scholar, LDS or non-LDS, has found any use by Joseph Smith of Moroni other than in that Elder's Journal. Once he gave the angel (or ghost, but that's another matter) a name, Joseph Smith, Jr. consistently said the name of the angel who visited him was Nephi. Any other attributions to Joseph Smith are to changes made to writings after his death, such as the change to Pearl of Great Price that Anderson acknowledges, or the change to Lucy Mack Smith's Biographical Sketchesunder the order of Brigham Young (the destruction of the 1853 edition at Young's order is noted in the Deseret News, as noted above).

49 posted on 12/23/2011 2:59:04 PM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: Scoutmaster

So the people making the changes were prophets or something? They had authorization from who/whom to make them? Still Joe wrote three different versions of the BOM translation.


50 posted on 12/23/2011 3:04:19 PM PST by SkyDancer ("If You Want To Learn To Love Better, You Should Start With A Friend Who You Hate")
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