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Vanity: Beware of False Prophets, False Prophecy
Excerpts from http://bible.cc/matthew/7-15.htm ^

Posted on 12/24/2011 1:00:53 PM PST by Jim Robinson

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To: wizr

There are Mormons who are Christians
_________________________________________

No there are not

Theyre either Mormons or they are Christians...

They either Follow the LORD Jesus Christ or they “follow the prophet” Joey Smith...

Either the LORD Jesus Christ is their Judge and Saviour

or the pagan Joey Smith is their judge and saviour

But never both..

Mormonism is not Christianity..

The LORD Jesus Christ is God...

Joey Smith is a resident of Hell..


151 posted on 12/24/2011 4:57:56 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
you might not like it, but without “church tradition” you and i would have no idea what books are inspired and which are not. What I don't like are false conclusions.God uses Sacred Tradition to give us His Word. read Mark 6:7,8 to see how mans tradition stacks up to Gods Commandments on the Sabbath, no the Apostles did not keep the Sabbath and the Sabbath will not be kept in heaven. A mouthful there. I would bombard you with verses but here's just a few Ex 20:8-11 Look at that word "Remember", as if we would forget. Rev. 1:10 John knew what day the Sabbath was. Luke 4:16 Jesus kept it but you cannot? Matthew 24:20 about an event years after the crucifixion. Acts 17:2 Paul kept it as well. Hmmmm.
152 posted on 12/24/2011 5:00:17 PM PST by BipolarBob (Of all the taglines in all the posts in all the world and she read mine.)
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To: MARTIAL MONK
There are differences in every religion

And there is ONLY ONE TRUTH.

My God commands this.

Your God commands what? And then show me in His Word where He commands it.
153 posted on 12/24/2011 5:01:36 PM PST by presently no screen name (If it's not in God's Word, don't pass it off as truth! That's satan's job.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

Right. And the difference between hanging out with some of them and hanging out on this thread is???


154 posted on 12/24/2011 5:05:19 PM PST by bigheadfred (MERRY CHRISTMAS)
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To: BipolarBob

you need to take off the Ellen White glasses when reading Scripture.

the Church keeps the Apostolic Tradition as commanded by Paul, not the “tradition of men” condemned by Jesus.

Acts 17:2 does not say Paul kept the Sabbath.

After Pentecost, the NT does not record any Apostle keeping the Sabbath.
the “Lord’s Day” is the first day of the week, the day Jesus rose from the dead.

Jesus is our Sabbath, we rest in Him.

please “bombard” me with NT verses that tell us we need to keep the seventh day sabbath after Jesus went to the cross.


155 posted on 12/24/2011 5:14:28 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: T. P. Pole

Any hack writer can pound out a copy of a gospel according to Jesus.

Case in point...

The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus
the Christ

The Greatest Book Ever Written

The Greatest Story Ever Told

Transcribed from The Book of God’s Remembrance (Akashic Records)
by Levi H. Dowling (1844-1911)

CHAPTER 55 (Jesus in Egypt)

Having passed the seventh brotherhood test, Jesus receives the seventh,
and highest degree, THE CHRIST. He leaves the temple a conqueror.

THE work of Jesus in the Chamber of the Dead was done, and in the temple purple room he stood before the hierophant,
2) And he was clothed in purple robes; and all the brothers stood. The hierophant arose and said,
3) This is a royal day for all the hosts of Israel. In honor of their chosen son we celebrate the great Passover Feast.
4) And then he said to Jesus,
Brother, man, most excellent of men, in all the temple tests you have won out.
5) Six times before the bar of right you have been judged; six times you have received the highest honors man can give; and now you stand prepared to take the last degree.
6) Upon your brow I place this diadem, and in the Great Lodge of the heavens and earth you are THE CHRIST.
7) This is your Passover rite. You are a neophyte no more; but now a master mind.
8) Now, man can do no more; but God himself will speak, and will confirm your title and degree.
9) Go on your way, for you must preach the gospel of good will to men and peace on earth; must open up the prison doors and set the captives free.
10) And while the hierophant yet spoke the temple bells rang out; a pure white dove descended from above and sat on Jesus’ head.
11) And then a voice that shook the very temple said, THIS IS THE CHRIST; and every living creature said, AMEN.
12) The great doors of the temple swung ajar; the Logos journeyed on his way a conqueror.

Just wait till he gets to India!

****
Would you really trust your soul to this drivel? so why trust Joseph Smith the moneydigger.


156 posted on 12/24/2011 5:15:26 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: presently no screen name

Some may be church members who have accepted Christ as their Savior, and are following His lead.


157 posted on 12/24/2011 5:15:32 PM PST by wizr (If God isn't on your side, who is?)
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To: bigheadfred

then you do not believe in the Christ of the bible

1Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1Cor 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1Cor 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1Cor 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

1Cor 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

1Cor 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

1Cor 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

1Cor 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

1Cor 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

1Cor 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which [was bestowed] upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

1Cor 15:11 Therefore whether [it were] I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

1Cor 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

1Cor 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

1Cor 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then [is] our preaching vain, and your faith [is] also vain.

1Cor 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

1Cor 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

1Cor 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.

1Cor 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1Cor 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

1Cor 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1Cor 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1Cor 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

1Cor 15:24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1Cor 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

1Cor 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.


158 posted on 12/24/2011 5:19:13 PM PST by RaceBannon (Ron Paul is to the Constitution what Fred Phelps is to the Bible.)
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To: Tennessee Nana

IMHO that is like saying all “Christian” churches profess to follow Christ’s path. Ask that question to Reverend Jeremiah Wright.

Some churches spew hatred instead of the love that Christ has given us.


159 posted on 12/24/2011 5:19:36 PM PST by wizr (If God isn't on your side, who is?)
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To: Dallas59

***They haven’t started to blow stuff up yet in the name of Smith.***

They were doing that kind of stuff in Missouri during the 1840s Mormon Wars.


160 posted on 12/24/2011 5:20:50 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: bigheadfred

What? You don’t speak English and understand words ?

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
Gal 1:2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
Gal 1:3 Grace [be] to you and peace from God the Father, and [from] our Lord Jesus Christ,
Gal 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
Gal 1:5 To whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.


161 posted on 12/24/2011 5:22:56 PM PST by RaceBannon (Ron Paul is to the Constitution what Fred Phelps is to the Bible.)
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To: RaceBannon

Oh settle down, Race. It’s Christmas for Christ’s sakes!


162 posted on 12/24/2011 5:23:03 PM PST by bigheadfred (MERRY CHRISTMAS)
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To: wizr

Some churches spew hatred
___________________________________

This is about Mormonism...

All Mormons “spew hatred”

The Mormon doctrines from the start were hatred of the LORD Jesus Christ, Christians, and Christianity..

All mormons MUST “sustain” what the Mormon doctrines say..


163 posted on 12/24/2011 5:24:35 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: bigheadfred

then why are you picking fights ?


164 posted on 12/24/2011 5:24:44 PM PST by RaceBannon (Ron Paul is to the Constitution what Fred Phelps is to the Bible.)
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To: bigheadfred

It’s Christmas
____________________________

So you insult all the Christian FReepers by taking the Name of our Lord in vain ???


165 posted on 12/24/2011 5:25:53 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
the “Lord’s Day” is the first day of the week, the day Jesus rose from the dead.

says who? You. Your church tradition - which has no validity with me?

As far as Heaven let's peek at Is.66:22,23 and read about (gasp!) Sabbath keeping! Or Psalms 19-7-9 The Law is perfect - (except for that pesky 4th commandment?)What did Paul say? The Law is holy, just and good. Romans 7:12 Gee, I don't know

Last question, so get this one right. What did Jesus say to do IF YOU LOVE HIM? Read John 14:15 if you didn't already know the answer.

166 posted on 12/24/2011 5:32:19 PM PST by BipolarBob (Of all the taglines in all the posts in all the world and she read mine.)
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To: Tennessee Nana

You speak for all Christian FReepers? Including me??? I bow my head and knee.


167 posted on 12/24/2011 5:33:25 PM PST by bigheadfred (MERRY CHRISTMAS)
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To: Jim Robinson

If you believe the Bible to be the Word of God, then yes, it applies to all men who falsely claim to be a prophet.

As another FReeper pointed out some time ago...

Christ said that upon His return, it would be for all the world to see, not secretly in the woods with a teenage boy.

I don’t for one minute believe that either of the two you mentioned or their successors were/are prophets. Besides both of the ones mentioned failed the basic tests of a prophet...they both gave wrong revelations.

The Bible says you don’t get do overs in that category...sorry.

Merry Christmas to you and yours Jim and thank you for all you do.


168 posted on 12/24/2011 5:34:31 PM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: bigheadfred

Yes, Fred he did. The Bible says he took 30 coins of silver to betray Christ and after he saw what was happening to Christ he tried to give it back. Then he went and hanged himself. Yup, I believe that he did.


169 posted on 12/24/2011 5:35:21 PM PST by RetiredArmy (The End of Days draws near. In this time, you should be drawing closer to the Lord Jesus Christ.)
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To: bigheadfred
This fred, says it all:

Matthew 26:25:

Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.

I think that is pretty clear. Don't you? If not, reread my prior post.

170 posted on 12/24/2011 5:39:03 PM PST by RetiredArmy (The End of Days draws near. In this time, you should be drawing closer to the Lord Jesus Christ.)
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To: Washi

So questioning the legitimacy of 2 self proclaimed mormon “prophets” makes FR an “anti-mormon” website?


171 posted on 12/24/2011 5:40:22 PM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: bigheadfred

***And the difference between hanging out with some of them and hanging out on this thread is???***

Christians on this thread agree with one another across denominational lines.

Only those who consider themselves the “only true church” such as the Mormons, are like the Pharisee who said...” Thank God that I am not like other men..”


172 posted on 12/24/2011 5:41:46 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: BipolarBob

there you go again with the Ellen White glasses.

if you take them off, you will see Isaiah doesn’t say the 7th day Sabbath will be kept in heaven. from sabbath to sabbath is the way OT Jews tracked time.
the law is perfect and Jesus kept it perfectly because man can’t.
the commandements Christians keep is the command to love God and our neighbor as our self.

anyone who has read Church history, knows the Church received the teaching from the Apostles to keep the first day of the week because this is the day Jesus rose from the dead.

Ellen White was a false prophetess who led many straight to hell.

where are those post-Pentecost NT verses teaching us to keep the Sabbath?


173 posted on 12/24/2011 5:43:01 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: bigheadfred
It’s Christmas for Christ’s sakes!

DON'T USE GOD'S NAME IN VAIN!
174 posted on 12/24/2011 5:49:44 PM PST by presently no screen name (If it's not in God's Word, don't pass it off as truth! That's satan's job.)
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To: Jim Robinson

There are false prophets, false teachers, and false Christs misleading people.

They should be treated with the same seriousness we treat people who slip razor blades or drugs in candy at Halloween.


175 posted on 12/24/2011 5:49:56 PM PST by gitmo (Hatred of those who think differently is the left's unifying principle.-Ralph Peters NY Post)
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To: RetiredArmy

And I simply don’t.

There was a plan.

My personal belief in Christ leaves no one out.

Hey. Peter denied Christ. But what is the status of Peter now?

Judas was a man with a terrible burden. With the Mercy he lives forever.


176 posted on 12/24/2011 5:50:34 PM PST by bigheadfred (MERRY CHRISTMAS)
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To: presently no screen name

I thought you weren’t talking to me?


177 posted on 12/24/2011 5:52:10 PM PST by bigheadfred (MERRY CHRISTMAS)
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To: BipolarBob; one Lord one faith one baptism
I wouldn't bother posting Scripture to OLOF - he doesn't believe God's Word is THE FINAL AUTHORITY.

Let him resort to his man made teachings/beliefs - like the mormons do. Some are hell bent on being deceived.

Merry Christmas, BB

God's Word is THE FINAL AUTHORITY for HIS CHURCH.
178 posted on 12/24/2011 5:54:42 PM PST by presently no screen name (If it's not in God's Word, don't pass it off as truth! That's satan's job.)
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To: Tennessee Nana

I hate to correct you, but “all Mormons” do not spew hatred.

My father was sick and not working when I was young. If it were not for Deseret Industries, we may not have had food.

As I said before, my father’s family has been raised in the Mormon Church. They have shown love in many different ways.

Please do not say ALL about any religion. Jesus is about the individual.


179 posted on 12/24/2011 5:55:33 PM PST by wizr (If God isn't on your side, who is?)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
Isaiah doesn’t say the 7th day Sabbath

Oh yes. Those catholic colored glasses won't let you see the TRUTH. Maybe he meant the 1st Day Sabbath? Show me the verse for that one.

the Church received the teaching from the Apostles to keep the first day of the week because this is the day Jesus rose from the dead.

People were COMMANDED to keep the first day of the week holy instead of the Sabbath! Are you sure? My Bible don't have that commandment. When God gave Moses the Ten Commandments (wrote by Gods own finger!) in stone, do you think stone signified permanence or did God just make a mistake?

180 posted on 12/24/2011 5:55:45 PM PST by BipolarBob (Of all the taglines in all the posts in all the world and she read mine.)
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To: bigheadfred
Do you believe Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus?

Holy crap, what's there to "believe" about it? Which one of these are you hazy about?

Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
--Matthew 10:4

Then one of the Twelve—the one called Judas Iscariot—went to the chief priests and asked, “What are you willing to give me if I deliver him over to you?” So they counted out for him thirty pieces of silver.
--Matthew 26:13-15

Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, “Surely you don’t mean me, Rabbi?” Jesus answered, “You have said so.”
--Matthew 26:25

While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people. Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: “The one I kiss is the man; arrest him.” Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, “Greetings, Rabbi!” and kissed him.
--Matthew 26:47-49

When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders.
--Matthew 27:3

Then Judas Iscariot, one of the Twelve, went to the chief priests to betray Jesus to them.
--Mark 14:10

Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.
--Luke 6:16

Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve. And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus.
--Luke 22:3&4

He approached Jesus to kiss him, but Jesus asked him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
--Luke 22:47-48

(He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)
--John 6:71

But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected...
--John 12:4

The evening meal was in progress, and the devil had already prompted Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, to betray Jesus.
--John 13:2

Leaning back against Jesus, he asked him, “Lord, who is it?” Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot.
--John 13:25-26

Now Judas, who betrayed him, knew the place, because Jesus had often met there with his disciples.
--John 18:2

“Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “I am he,” Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.)
--John 18:5

n those days Peter stood up among the believers (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty) and said, “Brothers and sisters, the Scripture had to be fulfilled in which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus. 17 He was one of our number and shared in our ministry.” (With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out.
--Acts 1:15-18
181 posted on 12/24/2011 5:57:09 PM PST by aruanan
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To: BipolarBob
do you think stone signified permanence or did God just make a mistake?

Nah. Paper doesn't survive fire.

182 posted on 12/24/2011 5:59:29 PM PST by bigheadfred (MERRY CHRISTMAS)
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To: Jim Robinson

Thank you for the post. I see you posted Mark 13:22. I believe it is useful to read Mark 13:22 and 23 together.

Mark 13:22 But false Christs and false prophets will arise and will make signs and wonders in order to be deceiving if possible, the chosen.

Mark 13:23 But you be looking; I have foretold you everything.

- Behold I have foretold you everything -

meaning there are no more prophesies after the prophesies of Jesus Christ. Therefore the so-called last prophet Mohammed, as well as Joseph Smith and anyone and everyone until now, are not true prophets. Indeed there will not be a true prophet to come until Jesus returns. He warned us there will be many false prophets. He did not foretell of any true phophets to come just false ones. He said that he had already foretold us everthing there was to foretell.

Well that’s how I look at it, but I’m no Biblical scholar.


183 posted on 12/24/2011 5:59:40 PM PST by clashfan (know your rights)
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To: aruanan
Explain to me in that last.

Scripture had to be fulfilled

There is a wrongness there. The implication was Judas NEVER had a chance.

And that makes this complete bullsh!+

Then Satan entered Judas

184 posted on 12/24/2011 6:07:13 PM PST by bigheadfred (MERRY CHRISTMAS)
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To: SZonian
So questioning the legitimacy of 2 self proclaimed mormon “prophets” makes FR an “anti-mormon” website?

When that "questioning the legitimacy" is in the form of a stand-alone thread begun by the site founder, owner, and setter-of-policy, it's a reasonable question to ask.

185 posted on 12/24/2011 6:07:52 PM PST by Washi (Surviving the Zombie Apocalypse, one head-shot at a time.)
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To: bigheadfred

I was warning you - not talking to you.


186 posted on 12/24/2011 6:16:29 PM PST by presently no screen name (If it's not in God's Word, don't pass it off as truth! That's satan's job.)
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To: DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
I agree that the verses warning us to beware of false prophets apply to Joseph Smith and to others (such as Mohamhed) who claimed that everyone else is wrong and we must all follow their prophet who made all sorts of additions and/or changes to scripture.

Separated at birth uh... in the Pre-Mortal Kingdom...


 

“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1]

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

  • Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

  • Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

  • Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

  • As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

  • Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

  • Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

  • Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

  • Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

  • Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, believe Mohammed’s son was to be their next leader. Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith's followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith's own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

  • Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith's claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.


[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.




187 posted on 12/24/2011 6:17:56 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: oprahstheantichrist; Jim Robinson

Polygamy is not only okay, it is to be encouraged and pursued.


Christian marriage:

Gen. 2:18, 21-24

The Lord God said, ‘It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him’...and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and closed up the place with flesh.

Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. The man said, ‘This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman,’ for she was taken out of man.’ For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.


It does not say we should be a community of flesh. I think Smith had a sexual problem and made up a church to feed, bless and normalize that problem. Would not be the first time...

This could be why Romney sees nothing wrong with homosexuality and nothing unethical about the elite using the govenerment and legal power to force it on Christian people.


188 posted on 12/24/2011 6:18:27 PM PST by SaraJohnson
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To: presently no screen name

Oh. I see. ANOTHER one. I bow my head and knee.


189 posted on 12/24/2011 6:18:43 PM PST by bigheadfred (MERRY CHRISTMAS)
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To: bigheadfred
IMO, the Mormons have more Chritianity than most.

Most WHAT?

Muslims???

190 posted on 12/24/2011 6:19:06 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Jim Robinson
Why would I place any faith at all in the Book Of Mormon?

Simple, Jim.

Merely READ it and then ask God to reveal to you the TRUTH of it all.

If you are sincere in your request; it will be made manifest to you.

--MormonDude(No; I CAN'T tell you why none of our doctrine is found in the BoM, but in OTHER writings we consider to be scripture, but don't tell you to read and pray about.)








191 posted on 12/24/2011 6:22:37 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Larry Lucido
Well, I’m not a Mormon so I don’t care what they eat, drink or wear.

Well; their GOD sure does!!!


(It's now cold weather, so the 'good' MORMONs - ones with a Temple Recommend; about 15% of them - can now eat MEAT.


 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 89
 
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.
 
1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.
 
  1 A aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—
  2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—
  3 Given for a principle with apromise, adapted to the capacity of the bweak and the weakest of all csaints, who are or can be called saints.
  4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—
  5 That inasmuch as any man adrinketh bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
  6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.
  7 And, again, astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.
  8 And again, tobacco is not for the abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.
  9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.
  10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
  11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with aprudence and bthanksgiving.
  12 Yea, aflesh also of bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used csparingly;
  13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or bfamine.
  14 All agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
  15 And athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.
  16 All grain is good for the afood of man; as also the bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—
  17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.
  18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ashall receive bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;
  19 And shall afind bwisdom and great ctreasures of dknowledge, even hidden treasures;
  20 And shall arun and not be bweary, and shall walk and not faint.
  21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the adestroying angel shall bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.



192 posted on 12/24/2011 6:25:00 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: T. P. Pole
I think we will all find out one day.

What?

No 'uplifting' MORMON scripture to defend the FALSE PROPHET slur against the noble, martyred Joseph Smith?

193 posted on 12/24/2011 6:26:47 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Washi
So, is this now, officially, an anti-mormon website?

We search for TRUTH here - what part of those Sriptures posted about false teachings/prophets do you object to?

Reminder: THEY are not opinions but The WORDS from The ALMIGHTY GOD, The Creator of ALL.

Are you using some sort of intimidation tactic So, is this now, officially, an anti-mormon website for Christians to DISOBEY God's Word when HE tells us to...

1 John 4:1 "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world".


194 posted on 12/24/2011 6:26:59 PM PST by presently no screen name (If it's not in God's Word, don't pass it off as truth! That's satan's job.)
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To: Elsie

Most of you, Elsie. Most of YOU.

But not to worry.

I bow my head and knee.

It gets easier every time.


195 posted on 12/24/2011 6:26:59 PM PST by bigheadfred (MERRY CHRISTMAS)
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To: T. P. Pole
...'uplifting' MORMON scripture to defend the FALSE PROPHET slur against the noble, martyred Joseph Smith?

Let me help!


The

DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS

OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 71

Revelation given to Joseph Smith the Prophet and Sidney Rigdon, at Hiram, Ohio, December 1, 1831. HC 1: 238–239. The Prophet had continued to translate the Bible with Sidney Rigdon as his scribe until this revelation was received, at which time it was temporarily laid aside so as to enable them to fulfill the instruction given herein. The brethren were to go forth to preach in order to allay the unfriendly feelings that had developed against the Church as a result of the publication of some newspaper articles by Ezra Booth, who had apostatized.

1–4, Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon are sent forth to proclaim the gospel; 5–11, Enemies of the saints shall be confounded.

1 Behold, thus saith the Lord unto you my servants Joseph Smith, Jun., and Sidney Rigdon, that the time has verily come that it is necessary and expedient in me that you should open your mouths in proclaiming my gospel, the things of the kingdom, expounding the mysteries thereof out of the scriptures, according to that portion of Spirit and power which shall be given unto you, even as I will.

2 Verily I say unto you, proclaim unto the world in the regions round about, and in the church also, for the space of a season, even until it shall be made known unto you.

3 Verily this is a mission for a season, which I give unto you.

4 Wherefore, labor ye in my vineyard. Call upon the inhabitants of the earth, and bear record, and prepare the way for the commandments and revelations which are to come.

5 Now, behold this is wisdom; whoso readeth, let him understand and receive also;

6 For unto him that receiveth it shall be given more abundantly, even power.

7 Wherefore, confound your enemies; call upon them to meet you both in public and in private; and inasmuch as ye are faithful their shame shall be made manifest.

8 Wherefore, let them bring forth their strong reasons against the Lord.

9 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you—there is no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper;

10 And if any man lift his voice against you he shall be confounded in mine own due time.

11 Wherefore, keep my commandments; they are true and faithful. Even so. Amen.

 

196 posted on 12/24/2011 6:27:46 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Bigh4u2
God told me that there were ‘no other gods’ before him. So believing in someone else would be a little hard to reconcile.

 

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."
 - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321
 
 
"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."
- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88
 
 
"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"
- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)
 
 
There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190
 
 
"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."
 - Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155
 
 
 
"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"
 - Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670
 


They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.
He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.
He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.
As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.
Who has made this so?
Have I?
Have this people?
Have the world?
No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.
If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.
If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.
Can you pass without his inspection?
No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.
In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.
They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?
They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
 Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

197 posted on 12/24/2011 6:28:51 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dragonblustar

GMTA!!!


198 posted on 12/24/2011 6:29:19 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dragonblustar
Joseph smith said he was better than Jesus and there is no salvation unless you believe in Smith.


JESUS: Hey Smith!       Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?

JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?

JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?

JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!

JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.

JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!

JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.

JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.

JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?

JOSEPH SMITH: This? “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30)

JESUS: That's it.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: Nah - it was right.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.

JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Eternal Covenant' that you came up with.

JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!

JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?

JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....

JESUS: What did you say?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.

JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.

JESUS: No...

JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?

JESUS: Nope.

JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!

JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: No; it wasn't.

JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?

JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?

JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.

JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.

JOSEPH SMITH: But.... 

199 posted on 12/24/2011 6:30:04 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Washi; Jim Robinson

(courtesy ping to JR...)

So, let me see if I understand...

The FR founder decides he’s going to post a vanity on a religious topic, in the RF asking if anyone knows if he’s misunderstanding, asking for their opinions and understandings.

Yet, because he happens to mention 2 men, who, in the 19th century claimed to be prophets, he’s now advocating that FR is to be known as an “anti-mormon” site?

He’s not banning mormon FReepers unless they themselves crossed the lines of good decorum. But they and their companions refuse to see it that way.

To them, it’s a bias against mormons if they get banned for overtly and deliberately lying, calling FReepers Nazis, stalking, attempting to implicate FReepers in murder, etc.

Is this all it takes to be branded as an “anti-mormon”? The legitimate and Biblically based questioning of their “prophets”?


200 posted on 12/24/2011 6:31:03 PM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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