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Archdiocese of Detroit asks Michael Voris to stop using the name ‘Catholic’ (bishops gone wild)
Lifesite News ^ | Fri Dec 23, 2011 | John-Henry Westen

Posted on 12/24/2011 2:03:30 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor

DETROIT, Michigan, December 23, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) - For many years faithful Catholics have wished that bishops would take strong action to correct the myriad of Catholic persons and entities who, while claiming to be Catholic, act against the faith, especially regarding issues of Catholic morality.

Catholic pro-abortion politicians, Catholic hospitals that perform clandestine abortions and sterilizations; Catholic universities that constantly violate the faith in many ways, Catholic newspapers and magazines that have been challenging Church teachings and authority for years, all come to mind. Now, today, news broke that the Archdiocese of Detroit has called on someone to stop using the name ‘Catholic’ - but it’s not someone who is fighting against the morals or faith of the Catholic Church at all. It is in fact an individual who has devoted the last several years to vigorously defending and promoting authentic Catholic principles – Michael Voris, known best for his hosting of The Vortex on the website RealCatholicTV.com.

In a press release issued December 15 and signed by Communications officer Joe Kohn, the Archdiocese of Detroit states: “The Archdiocese has informed Mr. Voris and Real Catholic TV, RealCatholicTV.com, that it does not regard them as being authorized to use the word ‘Catholic’ to identify or promote their public activities.”

Of note there are prominent ‘Catholic’ entities and even Catholic priests in the Archdiocese of Detroit directly flouting Church teaching without a comparable reprimand from the Archdiocese. One such entity is a group of priests of the Archdiocese who are publicly in favor of women’s ordination to the priesthood and against the Church’s teaching prohibiting contraception. The group is called “Elephants in the living room.”

There is however an interesting twist to this story. Michael Voris, while he may be the star of RealCatholicTV’s programming, is not the owner of the website. The owner is Marc Brammer who lives in South Bend Indiana in the diocese of Bishop Kevin Rhoades.

Brammer told LifeSiteNews, “I own RealCatholicTV.com. I contracted with Michael Voris to produce video content for that website and I pay him for it. It is a business relationship between me and Michael. If all of a sudden now there’s this tussle over the use of the word ‘Catholic’ I’ll deal with it through competent ecclesial authority.”

Brammer noted that he had received a letter from the Archdiocese of Detroit acknowledging him as the owner of the website. He responded to that letter with a request for a meeting with the Archdiocese. He received no response. Brammer has not been asked by his bishop, Fort Wayne-South Bend Bishop Kevin Rhoades to cease using the word Catholic.

A LifeSiteNews request for an interview with the Archdiocese of Detroit was not returned, and the voice message noted that the office was on holiday till after Christmas.

The press release from the Archdiocese of Detroit notes, “The Church encourages the Christian faithful to promote or sustain a variety of apostolic undertakings but, nevertheless, prohibits any such undertaking from claiming the name Catholic without the consent of the competent ecclesiastical authority.”

The release adds, “For some time, the Archdiocese of Detroit has been in communication with Mr. Michael Voris and his media partner at Real Catholic TV regarding their prominent use of the word ‘Catholic’ in identifying and promoting their public activities disseminated from the enterprise’s production facility in Ferndale, Michigan.”

Voris says that communication was only one way – directives from the Archdiocese and refusal to meet with Voris or Brammer to discuss the matter. Voris told LifeSiteNews that he has requested a meeting with Archdiocesan officials seven times to discuss the matter, but each time he has been ignored or rebuffed.

According to its minutes, Elephants in the living room (the group of priests which publicly holds positions counter to Catholic teachings on women priests and contraception), met with Detroit Archbishop Allen Vigneron on February 1, 2011.

Voris notes that his conflict with the Archdiocese of Detroit has more to do with its staffers than with the Archbishop. Previous to his work for RealCatholicTV, Voris launched St. Michael’s Media and had various offers to air programs he produced, talks he was to give and television shows he was to be featured on canceled through the efforts of staff at the Archdiocese. “They have waged a quiet war since the very first time we set foot into the public realm,” he said.

In response to the press release demand from the Archdiocese of Detroit, Voris told LifeSiteNews, “I don’t have ownership over the name of the organization. It’s not my organization. The headquarters are outside of the diocese.” He concluded, “It’s the wrong person, and the wrong outfit asking the wrong person the wrong question.”

Brammer is to give a formal response to the Archdiocese after Christmas which will be aired on RealCatholicTV.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: helltoupee; realcatholictv; vaticanii; vigneron; voris
This is from the supposedly conservative Archbishop Allen Vigneron. This solid proof, if there was lingering doubt, that Vatican II bishops are the number enemy of real Catholics.
1 posted on 12/24/2011 2:03:37 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: mas cerveza por favor

You can’t fight the diocese and you can’t use the word Catholic.


2 posted on 12/24/2011 2:10:47 PM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: fatima

Are you saying that RealCatholicTV was fighting against the Catholic mission of the diocese? How so?


3 posted on 12/24/2011 2:15:59 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: mas cerveza por favor

Don’t put words in my mouth.Read the article.


4 posted on 12/24/2011 2:18:10 PM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: mas cerveza por favor

A major part of being a Christian is to place oneself under authority.


5 posted on 12/24/2011 2:20:53 PM PST by Raycpa
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To: fatima
But if this account is true and complete (and John-Hernry Westen has, as far as I know, a good track record for "tue and complete") Archbishop Vigneron does not have the authority to rein in an organization not owned or based in his Archdiocese. And if he hasn't the authority, then RealCatholic only has the obligation in charity to tell him so, and to invite a respectful dialog if there are any unresolved conflicts. This --- dialogue -- is just what RealCatholic has requested repeatedly.

Mind you, I sometimes applaud, and sometimes wince, at RealCatholic's aggressive style. But that's not the point. I'm no canonist, and I am open to correction, but if the issue is ecclesiastical auhority, it appears they're in the right.

So no, I don't think RealCatholic is out of line, Do you?

6 posted on 12/24/2011 2:22:39 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (The birth of Christ my hope.)
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To: fatima

You are saying that RealCatholicTV did something against the diocese? Please quote what you are talking about.


7 posted on 12/24/2011 2:23:31 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: Raycpa

“A major part of being a Christian is to place oneself under authority.”

Right, but how does that relate to this topic?


8 posted on 12/24/2011 2:25:30 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: mas cerveza por favor

: “The Archdiocese has informed Mr. Voris and Real Catholic TV, RealCatholicTV.com, that it does not regard them as being authorized to use the word ‘Catholic’ to identify or promote their public activities.”


9 posted on 12/24/2011 2:30:47 PM PST by Raycpa
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To: mas cerveza por favor; fatima; Mrs. Don-o
This is from the supposedly conservative Archbishop Allen Vigneron. This solid proof, if there was lingering doubt, that Vatican II bishops are the number enemy of real Catholics.

Even Mike Vorris notes that this is probably from the chancery staff at the Archdiocese, and not exactly direct communication from Apb. Vigneron. However, given that it is from his office he is likely committed to some position on it.

Boy, I don't want to be in the room when discussion over this is going on there.

Detroit is dealing with a big priest shortage, and is having to close and merge parishes because there are not enough priests. Due to this, groups of priests like "elephant in the room" have some weight. AOD politics are complicated.

10 posted on 12/24/2011 2:35:38 PM PST by Bayard
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Is Michael Voris in the diocese.Somebody is or the letter would not have gone out.How do you know what Real Catholic requested?Something turned the diocese off.The Diocese does not have to answer them.


11 posted on 12/24/2011 2:41:15 PM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: Raycpa
A major part of being a Christian is to place oneself under authority.

The Smoke of Satan entered the Church around 1960. So whose authority would you be under? Myself, I would say it would depend on the particular Bishop.

12 posted on 12/24/2011 2:46:33 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture (Could be worst in 40 years))
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To: Raycpa

Since Archbishop Vigneron has not explained why he is persecuting this loyal Catholic media outlet, it should be apparent that he has no legitimate reason. The Catholic Church is currently under attack from various traitor bishops. Unless Vigneron can explain away his suspicious actions, one can only assume that he is among these ranks.

Loyal Catholics have always had and still do have an obligation to defend the faith against traitorous bishops.

13 posted on 12/24/2011 2:53:20 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: Bayard

“Even Mike Vorris notes that this is probably from the chancery staff at the Archdiocese, and not exactly direct communication from Apb. Vigneron. However, given that it is from his office he is likely committed to some position on it. Boy, I don’t want to be in the room when discussion over this is going on there.”

No doubt Archbishop Vigneron is experiencing pressure (perhaps blackmail) from his liberal, disloyal priests. That is why loyal Catholics should exert pressure from the opposite direction.


14 posted on 12/24/2011 2:57:59 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: steve86
The Smoke of Satan entered the Church around 1960. So whose authority would you be under? Myself, I would say it would depend on the particular Bishop.

That quote is not to be taken out of context, and deliberately misapplied in order to abrogate the authority of the Church instituted by Christ.

15 posted on 12/24/2011 3:03:10 PM PST by Bayard
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To: Bayard

I have a special fondness for the Detroit Archdiocese.Used to have many souls call me from that area.I did a quick search of Real Catholic TV and the problems are there.


16 posted on 12/24/2011 3:10:26 PM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: steve86
The Smoke of Satan entered the Church around 1960. So whose authority would you be under? Myself, I would say it would depend on the particular Bishop.

<< Romans 13 >> New American Standard Bible Be Subject to Government 1Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.

17 posted on 12/24/2011 3:30:32 PM PST by Raycpa
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To: fatima

Thirty years ago, the Bishop of Wilmington, DE told me that there was no room in the Catholic Church for people like me - Catholic Conservative. The current Bishop let me know that he still feels the same way.

But Biden, Pelosi, Kerry and the rest of the child molesters are welcome.


18 posted on 12/24/2011 4:01:41 PM PST by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)
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To: fatima
You can’t fight the diocese and you can’t use the word Catholic

\you can use the word Catholic if you don't capitalize it

19 posted on 12/24/2011 4:28:53 PM PST by terycarl (lurking, but well informed)
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To: steve86
The Smoke of Satan entered the Church around 1960. So whose authority would you be under? Myself, I would say it would depend on the particular Bishop.

no it didn't...the church is made up of fallible men and at times they do stupid things. You are, of course, free to put yourself under whichever bishop you choose, but if you have a problem with a particular bishop...take it up with a higher authority, the vatican if necessary, but don't go off half cocked and make your own rules as you go along. That describes protestantism to a "T".

20 posted on 12/24/2011 4:40:24 PM PST by terycarl (lurking, but well informed)
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To: NTHockey

Bishops that have lost Catholic faith do not exercise legitimate authority. Traditionalist Catholicism welcomes genuine conservatives.


21 posted on 12/24/2011 4:47:45 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: fatima
Fatima. You just said you did a quick research of RealCatholicTV. Michael Voris is very much in communion with the Catholic Church, Authority of Rome and the Catechism. He takes on the magisterium for when they are not in communion with the same. For this he is being persecuted. If you have not watched his episodes you should. Research what HE has to say and see if there is any single word that is not authentically Catholic.
22 posted on 12/24/2011 5:22:14 PM PST by Integrityrocks
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To: fatima
You can’t fight the diocese and you can’t use the word Catholic.

I suppose it comes down to "which diocese?"

23 posted on 12/24/2011 6:21:31 PM PST by Jeff Chandler (Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati)
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To: Integrityrocks
Again don't put words in my mouth.I never saw his programing.If you are evangelizing stick to it.Take on the church and you get a letter in the mail.
24 posted on 12/24/2011 6:39:27 PM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: NTHockey

Sorry to hear that NTHockey ((((Hugs))))


25 posted on 12/24/2011 6:41:51 PM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: terycarl

:)


26 posted on 12/24/2011 6:44:24 PM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: Jeff Chandler

I would guess complaints came in.


27 posted on 12/24/2011 6:51:27 PM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: fatima

they should just use catholic with a small c.

that way, no problem.


28 posted on 12/24/2011 7:23:24 PM PST by LadyDoc
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To: LadyDoc

Someone else said that.That’s a new one for me :)


29 posted on 12/24/2011 7:29:30 PM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: mas cerveza por favor

Michael Voris’ worst crime is the ridiculous wig he wears.


30 posted on 12/24/2011 7:38:23 PM PST by iowamark
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To: fatima

“Take on the church and you get a letter in the mail.”

You are saying Voris took on the Church? How so?


31 posted on 12/24/2011 8:11:42 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: iowamark
That hair aint real.....?? Uh-oh..........

What is it with big hair and so many televangelists?

32 posted on 12/24/2011 8:19:58 PM PST by marshmallow (.)
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To: fatima
I would guess complaints came in.

I'm sure they did, but the question is one of jurisdiction. If the organization using the name "Catholic" isn't in the Detroit diocese, then they may be off the hook.

33 posted on 12/24/2011 8:20:45 PM PST by Jeff Chandler (Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati)
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To: fatima; Judith Anne; Cronos; wagglebee; dsc; Deo volente; MarkBsnr; Mad Dawg; ArrogantBustard; ...
I did a quick search of Real Catholic TV and the problems are there.

Please be more specific. I've looked very closely at RealCatholicTV and I've spoken at length with Simon Rafe, who runs the technical end of things. I was also one of the moderators for their forum. I've never seen ANY problems with RealCatholicTV, so please give specific examples before you malign a faithful Catholic apostolate.

In this day and age, unfortunately, I give the benefit of the doubt to faithful Catholic laity attempting to maintain and promote orthodoxy over the typical chancery hack and/or USCCB member attempting to prolong the "spirit of VII."

And this campaign against Voris is fruit the latter, and not to be given any credence whasoever.

34 posted on 12/25/2011 8:39:26 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: marshmallow; iowamark

The hair is real. It might not be some folks’ style, but it is real.


35 posted on 12/25/2011 8:43:05 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Thank you.


36 posted on 12/25/2011 9:22:36 AM PST by marshmallow (.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
There is a difference between kissing the ring and kissing the butt. Too many dioceses are run by lay liberals who think they are ordained. Liberal priest get away with virtual apostasy because they are in holy orders. Just look at the miscreant friend of Obama who is a priest in the Chicago archdiocese.
37 posted on 12/25/2011 12:14:19 PM PST by RobbyS
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To: iowamark

Ad homiunem? What the bishops probably don;’t like is the tome of his telecasts. What they hate is that he is a lay person and therefore beyond their reach. I think I will subscribe just because I am getting tired of these clerical games.


38 posted on 12/25/2011 12:17:38 PM PST by RobbyS
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To: fatima
Michael Voris is in threArchdiocese of Detroit, but he does not own the RealCatholic website. It's owned by Marc Brammer; and Brammer has not been asked by his bishop, Fort Wayne-South Bend Bishop Kevin Rhoades to cease using the word Catholic.

"How do you know what Real Catholic requested?"

Brammer (the owner of RealCatholic) has asked for the meeting with Abp Vigneron. He's the one who represents RealCatholic.

39 posted on 12/25/2011 1:15:58 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (The birth of Christ my hope.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Merry Christmas Brian,malign” having or showing intense often vicious ill will”


40 posted on 12/25/2011 9:08:28 PM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

For the religious forum-reading minds and name calling “malign”


41 posted on 12/25/2011 9:12:16 PM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: fatima
Not at all. I used the term appropriately, and it had nothing to do with mind reading or name calling. The diocese has maligned Voris, and folks across the internet are doing likewise as a result of the diocesan nonsense.

You just don't challenge (i.e., "malign") the Catholicity of good faithful Catholic groups in your diocese when heterodox groups are running amok. The USCCB members have bigger fish to fry than Voris.

When they've fulfilled their duties in regard to Canon 915 and silenced apostates like National Catholic Reporter and the many heterodox "catholic" colleges and universities and women religious groups, then they can investigate the "catholicity" of groups like Voris.

Until then, this is damnable hypocrisy on the part of the chancery hacks maligning Voris and his good work.

42 posted on 12/25/2011 10:01:42 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Dr. Brian Kopp,For you to use the word malign to me is “Calumny

(Latin calvor, to use artifice, to deceive)

Etymologically any form of ruse or fraud employed to deceive another, particularly in judicial proceedings. In its more commonly accepted signification it means the unjust damaging of the good name of another by imputing to him a crime or fault of which he is not guilty. The sin thus committed is in a general sense mortal, just as is detraction.”
https://www.google.com/search?q=real+catholic+tv+Michael+Voris&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.yahoo:en-US:official&client=firefox
Real Catholic TV Michael Voris Google search first page.
#1 Home / News/Press Releases / Statement Regarding Michael Voris
Statement Regarding Michael Voris
Posted on: 04-7-2011 Posted in: News

The Diocese of Scranton has determined that Mr. Voris will not be allowed to speak in a Diocesan or parish facility. After these engagements were scheduled, the Diocese became aware of concerns about this individual’s views regarding other religious groups. In videos posted on the Internet, Mr. Voris makes comments that certainly can be interpreted as being insensitive to people of other faiths. The Catholic Church teaches us to respect all people, regardless of their faith tradition.

Although the Diocese shares Mr. Voris’ support of efforts to protect human life, his extreme positions on other faiths are not appropriate and therefore the Diocese cannot host him.
#2 http://www.patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2011/08/new-problems-surface-for-michael-voris-and-realcatholictv/
#1 first page google under simon rafe a
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/realcatholictvs-voris-had-no-idea-about-internal-problems/
Michael Voris, the founder and host of RealCatholicTV, says he was completely unaware of recently discovered troubles within his organization, involving a staff apologist’s sexually explicit writings, and his nonprofit corporation’s loss of legal status two years ago”.
I call these problems on the first page of google search.”A problem is an obstacle, impediment, difficulty or challenge, or any situation that invites resolution; “


43 posted on 12/25/2011 10:20:10 PM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: fatima
For you to use the word malign to me is “Calumny"

Hardly. I'm aware of some of what has gone on behind the scenes. In the Diocese of Scranton, a liberal feminist nun complained about (i.e., maligned) Voris to the chancery, and the liberal hacks in the chancery caved and threw Voris under the bus.

And the minor paperwork problem with Voris' state non-profit filing is extraordinarily common among small non-profits, and was deliberately blown out of proportion in a sensationalistic article in a mainstream Catholic periodical to malign Voris and RCTV - while they were out of country covering WYD and unable to respond. That was real yellow journalism from a Catholic pen.

And through ignorance, you are picking up on the same stories and rehashing them as if they had merit.

Yours is not culpable, but it is maligning nonetheless.

And my pointing it out is not "calumny."

So please don't take my attempts to set matters straight on this thread as a personal attack against you. It is nothing of the sort.

I'm just sick of the old guard desperately trying to hold their ground, and sacrificing good faithful lay Catholics and maligning them to do so, and deceiving good faithful lay Catholics like you in the process.

44 posted on 12/25/2011 10:49:07 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: fatima
There are various definitions of malign, here's the one that applies in this discussion:

1ma·lign

[+ obj] formal : to say bad things about (someone or something) publicly : to criticize (someone or something) harshly or unfairly

Her supporters say she is being unfairly maligned in the press. I did not intend to malign [=impugn] his motives. They have given up their much-maligned [=widely criticized] attempt to reform tax policy.

45 posted on 12/25/2011 11:07:03 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: fatima

fatima,
I would strongly urge you to spend a three or four hour period, across as many days, watching some of the Vortex episodes available on Youtube. Note the subjects in each. Then go look up the official Church stances on each of the subjects you’ve listed. You won’t find any deviance from official Church teachings. You WILL find the actual definition of charity. The non-false ecumenism definition of the Church’s view of the One True Faith.

While his manner may not please all, he is most certainly orthodox, and earned an STB, Magna Cum Laude. The archdiocese of Detroit has not cared for having a gadfly. So be it. They aren’t often welcome. But this one has yet to step out of proper bounds, whether you care for him or not.

The press release from the chancery came on the heels of a Vortex episode wherein Mr. Voris made mention of a specific Catholic Church’s marquis, which read, “Happy Holidays.” We ARE, after all, speaking of one of those founded by Our Lord, and Redeemer. And they lacked the ability to wish a Merry Christmas. Then, when pressed on the matter, they waffled. The obvious point having been that members of the Catholic Church, founded by Jesus Christ Himself should not hide behind political correctness, and should most certainly, clearly celebrate the birth of Our Lord. And he’s RIGHT!

This doesn’t necessarily mean that his manner, which can be quite abrasive, is the best, or that one must always agree with his opinions. But it doesn’t mean that thus far, no reason for genuine castigation has not turned up in Mr. Voris’ media appearances. You may be sure that many await that day, but likewise that it hasn’t arrived yet.


46 posted on 12/26/2011 4:48:36 AM PST by sayuncledave (et Verbum caro factum est (And the Word was made flesh))
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