Skip to comments.Italian study claims Turin Shroud is Christ's authentic burial robe
Posted on 12/26/2011 2:08:43 PM PST by SeekAndFind
Just days before Christmas, a new study has emerged that suggests that one of Christianity's most prized but mysterious relics the Turin Shroud is not a medieval forgery but could be the authentic burial robe of Christ.
Italian scientists have conducted a series of advanced experiments which, they claim, show that the marks on the shroud purportedly left by the imprint of Christ's body could not possibly have been faked with technology that was available in the medieval period.
The research will be an early Christmas present for shroud believers, but is likely to be greeted with scepticism by those who doubt that the sepia-coloured, 14ft-long cloth dates from Christ's crucifixion 2,000 years ago.
Sceptics have long claimed that the shroud is a medieval forgery, and radiocarbon testing conducted by laboratories in Oxford, Zurich and Arizona in 1988 appeared to back up the theory, suggesting that it dated from between 1260 and 1390.
But those tests were in turn disputed on the basis that they were skewed by contamination by fibres from cloth that was used to repair the relic when it was damaged by fire in the Middle Ages.
The new study is the latest intriguing piece of a puzzle which has baffled scientists for centuries and spawned an entire industry of research, books and documentaries.
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
I’d feel more confident if the researchers had been French or Swedish. Imagine, Italian scientists authenticating an Italian tourist attraction. That would never happen.Right? Still, the image is awe inspiring to me, and has been since I was first shown it by a parish priest in ‘61.
Yes, tourism to Italy would slow to a trickle if the Shroud were proved to be fake.
These test results were later disputed by one of the researchers who originally came up with the dates while trying to debunk an amateur couple who debunked his work.
No it’s not. Jews never buried people in the manner the shroud suggests.
Even if they date it back to the time of Christ, they can never prove that the image is that of Jesus Christ.
yeah...probably among the thousands of 2,000 year old preserved burial cloths lying around..silly for any of us to suppose that just perhaps a miracle could have preserved that ONE cloth....nah
‘Jews never buried people in the manner the shroud suggests.’
What manner did they bury them in?
Googling around, I also found one source that claimed to quote a rabbinical source saying that persons executed by the government were wrapped in a single piece of linen.
Sorry about the formatting, I forgot how to post a link.
Whe know, or can pretty well assume that Christ bled to death? Then, the body was prepared for burial in haste, but might those whom did so have just enough time to wash the blood off?
How much blood was there left?
From this website
I found this:
James Thompson believed that Jesus did not die from exhaustion, the beatings or the 3 hours of crucifixion, but that he died from agony of mind producing rupture of the heart. His evidence comes from what happened when the Roman soldier pierced Christ's left side. The spear released a sudden flow of blood and water (John 19:34). Not only does this prove that Jesus was already dead when pierced, but Thompson believes it is also evidence of cardiac rupture. Respected physiologist Samuel Houghton believed that only the combination of crucifixion and rupture of the heart could produce this result.
The point of the article I mentioned in my previous post is that one cloth was used when He was taken from the cross, and that another set of clothing was used when He was buried.
John 20:6-7, "Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb; and he saw the linen cloths lying there, and the handkerchief that had been around His head, not lying with the linen cloths (plural), but folded together in a place by itself."
Right there in the scriptures it states to the reader that more than one piece of cloth was used when Jesus was buried. In the article it also says that 75 lbs of spices and many pieces of cloth are used in a common Jewish burial.
This webpage also has many commentaries on the burial customs in the time of Jesus. Note that many of them detail the practice of wrapping the body in many strips of linen cloth.
I know that many people want to believe in the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin, but from where I sit I see only an elaborate hoax perpetuated upon a populace eager for tangible proof of Christ's death and resurrection instead of just believing in what the Bible says is true.
Instead of seeking a sign (see what Christ says in Matthew 12:38), just seek the Savior.
Crucifixion caused the person to suffocate (they tired of pulling themselves up on their arms to allow their lungs to inflate); the others had their legs broken to speed the process (so they couldn’t push up with them), but when they got to Jesus He was already dead.
John 11:43-44 (NASB)
43 When He had said these things, He cried out with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. 44 The man who had died came forth, bound hand and foot with wrappings, and his face was wrapped around with a cloth. Jesus *said to them, Unbind him, and let him go.”
Both Lazarus and Jesus are described as having been laid in the tomb in the same way with the same grave wrappings.
I was under the impression that part of the reason for the rupture is that the body being bleed out to large extent, leaves the heart working hard, pumping on next to nothing, compared to a full or sufficient supply.
One can image how agony of the mind, at the moment when he made the pronouncement was made, would be quite severe. As the scripture says, that is the moment He "gave up the Ghost", so perhaps the explanation you bring is the better one, even if large loss of blood was a contributing factor.
Don't get me wrong... I was not taking a position one way or the other as to the shroud's authenticity. Although I would like to believe it, it's one of those things that for myself, must be categorized as uncertain.
Some time after Christ, the Romans crucified by the multiple hundreds, even on one day. It got so bad, there were no trees around, for they had all been cut down. They had to import wood just to nail many of those rebellious to the Roman authorities, to, or so I have read, though I have lost track of a good source for the information.
The latter rebellion, and what happened to those Jews living there at the time, is quite grievous to contemplate.
Some time I may look into it again, with questions in my mind like which specific legion did the dirty work, under which Roman authority, which field commanders, etc.
I've heard from one source that the legion which was occupying Judea at the time of Christ, was getting near the end of their terms of enlistment. Poor memory cannot recall if it were 14 year terms, or less? Other sources tell us the set times for enlistment did change, becoming somewhat shorter(?) when towards the end of Empire or before, when it was plain the Romans were overextended militarily.
One needs to be choosy in their sources, of course, using first those which most closely source the earliest, and or most reliable records.
I should have written multiple hundreds at a time, on more than one occasion, not “even on one day”.
Very good catch, I never even thought about Lazarus.
It's amazing how people seek to discredit things without first looking at the evidence, on the basis of what they suppose others' wishes to be.
The physical evidence for the authenticity of the Shroud (a real burial cloth of a real crucified man from the 1st century AD) is overwhelming.
In addition to many details preserved in the Shroud which were either unknown to medieval forgers (e.g. position of the thumbs consistent with damage to the medial nerve from crucifixion, placement of holes not in hand but not in wrist), the spectrographic evidence is beyond the reach of any forger (the image is a surface phenomenon on the coating of the individual cloth fibers and does not have the signature of any pigment known to be used through medieval times; the blood is real mammalian blood with degraded hemoglobin and bilurubin); and there is the three-dimensional nature of the image which to this day cannot be duplicated *consistently* with other KNOWN, OBSERVED features of the Shroud.