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FLDS exodus prompts call for 'foster homes'
Fox13 (Salt Lake City) ^ | Dec. 22, 2011 | Ben Winslow

Posted on 12/26/2011 4:04:21 PM PST by Colofornian

Imprisoned polygamist leader Warren Jeffs has reportedly issued an edict to his followers with a deadline -- renew allegiances to the Fundamentalist LDS Church or be excommunicated.

With a Dec. 31 deadline looming, non-profit groups who help those leaving Utah's polygamous communities say an ongoing exodus from the FLDS Church is turning into a "humanitarian crisis," with people walking away with no place to go.

"You've got new control where you have to give everything," James Barlow told FOX 13. "And I mean everything."

Barlow left the FLDS Church last month after refusing to give his allegiance to Jeffs. Barlow, 19, described being called before Jeffs' brother, Lyle, and asked to confess his sins and be re-baptized into the FLDS Church. Tired of the increasing restrictions on people's lives within the church, Barlow left with the clothes on his back.

"I said 'no' and walked out the door," he said. "To come out here and just fall on my head, just not have anything. Nothing... nobody to give me anything, a roof over my head."

He wound up at a home in the Salt Lake City area where his sister, Ruth, has been staying. She left the FLDS Church in September after deciding she no longer believed in the faith under Jeffs.

"I've really enjoyed the family," Ruth Barlow said in an interview with FOX 13. "They've been really good and really fun to be around. It's different than being with my own family, but it's still the same."

The siblings are being "fostered" by the group Holding Out Help, which works with those in Utah's polygamous communities. Since Jeffs went to prison, the group said it has seen a steady stream of people leaving the FLDS Church.

"They leave with absolutely nothing," said Holding Out Help's Tonia Tewell. "The first thing we try to hit is the basic needs: food, clothing and shelter."

Warren Jeffs is serving a life sentence in a Texas prison for child sex assault related to underage marriages. Since he's been imprisoned, he's released a steady stream of "revelations" he claims are from God to lawmakers across the country. They include demands that he be released or the wrath of the Almighty will destroy the earth. The most recent revelations sent to Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff claimed they were a "final warning."

Amongst his followers, Jeffs has reportedly made even more demands. Ex-FLDS members tell FOX 13 he has demanded that children give up toys, and adults sell things like ATVs.

"The demands range from coming up with $5,000 at the end of the month to handing over all the food stamps. I've heard they're no longer allowed to have sexual relations with their wives except to have children," Tewell said.

Tewell said she has heard of as many as 50 people a month leaving the polygamous border towns of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz. Some are going to a rival polygamous leader. Others, mostly young adults, are trying to find their way in the world. Holding Out Help and Utah's Safety Net Committee (a coalition of government agencies, social service agencies and polygamists) are trying to find shelter for everyone.

"We need the entire community here in the Salt Lake Valley to step up," said Tewell. "We cannot do this alone any longer."

The Safety Net Committee and Holding Out Help are setting up sort-of "foster homes" across the state. The Safety Net Committee has been holding open houses in St. George, asking people to be willing to open up their homes for children, teenagers, adults or entire families.

"Would I encourage other people to do it? Absolutely. It's been, I think, a blessing to our family," said Kristi Gower, who is hosting the Barlow siblings.

The Safety Net Committee said it would conduct background checks and has a few terms for families willing to foster those from the polygamous communities. More information can be found at holdingouthelp.org or by contacting the Safety Net Committee through Utah's Family Support Center (www.familysupportcenter.org).

James Barlow said with a New Year's Eve deadline coming, more people will likely be leaving.

"Family means everything to most of us from there," he said. "I know, to everybody I know, it means everything. That's why a lot of people haven't left. But you have to the end of the year and you're excommunicated."


TOPICS: Current Events; Moral Issues; Other Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: flds; inman; lds; mormon; warrenjeffs
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From the article: Imprisoned polygamist leader Warren Jeffs has reportedly issued an edict to his followers with a deadline -- renew allegiances to the Fundamentalist LDS Church or be excommunicated. With a Dec. 31 deadline looming, non-profit groups who help those leaving Utah's polygamous communities say an ongoing exodus from the FLDS Church is turning into a "humanitarian crisis," with people walking away with no place to go.

This fLDS generation was NEVER LDS -- so they're not renegade Mormons. They just take Lds Doctrine & Covenants 132 -- still Mormon "scripture" -- the same way Brigham Young and other Lds leaders take it.

And just as Young ruled territorial Utah with an iron fist, that's the way Warrn Jeffs is still ruling -- from prison.

From the article: Tewell said she has heard of as many as 50 people a month leaving the polygamous border towns of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz.

With the deadline coming, that may be increase.

From the article: Warren Jeffs is serving a life sentence in a Texas prison for child sex assault related to underage marriages. Since he's been imprisoned, he's released a steady stream of "revelations" he claims are from God to lawmakers across the country. They include demands that he be released or the wrath of the Almighty will destroy the earth. The most recent revelations sent to Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff claimed they were a "final warning."

Well, that's the interesting part here: The Utah AG serves as the "news filter" for Jeffs' "final warning." (I guess, in Utah, the AG office is the "PR" Division for Jeffs)

Here's an article from earlier this month: FLDS community said to be purging itself of outside influence

1 posted on 12/26/2011 4:04:23 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Yay! Refugees! How many you gonna get???


2 posted on 12/26/2011 4:08:28 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: Colofornian

A coalition of government agencies, social service agencies and polygamists?

3 posted on 12/26/2011 4:19:45 PM PST by delacoert
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To: Colofornian

Religion almost makes me as sick as politics . . . almost!


4 posted on 12/26/2011 4:29:10 PM PST by ArchAngel1983 (Arch Angel- on guard / The democrat party "Can Go Straight To Hell".)
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To: Colofornian
the end of the month to handing over all the food stamps.

All on food stamps..... What a scam. I bet those polygamists on TLC collect food stamps as well.

5 posted on 12/26/2011 4:31:27 PM PST by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: Colofornian

The religion of the pervert prophet strikes again.... This works on Muslims too!


6 posted on 12/26/2011 4:37:15 PM PST by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: dragonblustar; Colofornian; restornu; Saundra Duffy; TheDon

Fruits of Joseph Smith spoil the barrel AGAIN.


7 posted on 12/26/2011 4:41:22 PM PST by pennyfarmer (Even a RINO will chew its foot off when caught in a trap.)
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To: Colofornian

Where’s Myth???? He could fix this, just like the Olympics and Massachusetts healthcare....


8 posted on 12/26/2011 4:43:41 PM PST by King Moonracer (Bad lighting and cheap fabric, that's how you sell clothing.....)
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To: dragonblustar

Since polygamy is not recognized within state or federal laws, all of the “wives” except the first “legal” one are single moms.

So they get all of the same bennies as your inner city single moms.

They are not as “self-sufficient” as some here on FR pretend they are.


9 posted on 12/26/2011 4:58:20 PM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Colofornian
So. Problems in Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Arizona. As Gomer Pyle would say, "Surprise, surprise, surprise."

Polygamy isn't just against the law in Utah and Arizona. It's prohibited by the State Constitutions of both Utah (Article Three, Section 1") and Arizona (Article 2, Section 20. Why? Because of the wide-spread illegal polygamy by members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints at this time Utah and Arizona became states. In fact, in the case of Utah, the LDS Church had to give up polygamy for Utah to become a state (we won't get into the deceptive 1890 Manifesto, and the following Second Manifesto of 1904).

The anti-polygamy provision of the Utah Constitution may be unique among all provision of any kind among all the fifty states. It specifically states that the people of Utah can't change that provision of their own constitution without permission of the United States. That's how much the United States trusted the people of Utah at the time of statehood:

"The following ordinance shall be irrevocable without the consent of the United States and the people of this State . . . No inhabitant of this State shall ever be molested in person or property on account of his or her mode of religious worship; but polygamous or plural marriages are forever prohibited

Utah Constitution Article Three, Section 1.

Bigamy is a crime under Utah law (Utah Criminal Code Section 76-7-101, which includes purporting to marry another or cohabitating with another when one is married - specifically to address post-Manifesto 'polygamy,' where a party can be legally married only once. Polygamous co-habitation is illegal under the Arizona Constitution.

One might assume that the Attorneys General of the States of Utah and Arizona would have been enforcing the anti-polygamy laws - because we're not just talking in the recent past, after recent Supreme Court rulings. But they don't enforce them. And they haven't enforced them. Why? I'll let you hold your finger to the prevailing religious winds in Utah and northern Utah and take an educated guess.

Am I presuming that the laws are not enforced? No. I'm taking the Attorney General of Utah at his word. The official website of the Utah State Attorney General, Mark Shurleff, states that:

Polygamy is illegal in Utah and forbidden by the Arizona constitution. However, law enforcement agencies in both states have decided to focus on crimes within polygamous communities that involve child abuse, domestic violence and fraud.

Which means: "we're not going to prosecute any polygs. They're everywhere. They've always been everywhere. Do you actually think we meant to honor that commitment to the United States? Oh, c'mon."

I know that many people will say the government shouldn't be involved in marriage, but this situation goes further than that. It's not a case of the government staying out of religion, it's a case of the government being told not embarrass the prevailing state religion. The Attorneys General aren't going to take actions that put a spotlight on polygamy because . . .

10 posted on 12/26/2011 5:00:15 PM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: Scoutmaster

It is the policy and practice for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to excommunicate anyone involved in polygamy or who are in any polygamous organization.


11 posted on 12/26/2011 5:08:31 PM PST by Dan(9698)
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To: Dan(9698); Scoutmaster
It is the policy and practice for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to excommunicate anyone involved in polygamy or who are in any polygamous organization.

while that is true Dan, the revelation from 'god' to smith - D & C section 132 is still mormon scripture and doctrine.

12 posted on 12/26/2011 5:12:15 PM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Dan(9698)
It is the policy and practice for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to excommunicate anyone involved in polygamy or who are in any polygamous organization.

The LDS Church still says that polygamy stopped with the 1890 Manifesto. That's certainly not true. I assume you know that.

I also assume you know there are many peer-reviewed scholarly papers written even at Brigham Young, as well as award-winning history books about how the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve ignored the 1890 Manifesto. I can provide cites if you would like.

And you know about the Reed Smoot hearings, the institutional deception involved in that, and the 1904 "this time we sort of really mean it" Manifesto?

Now, at this point, if you want to tell me that the LDS Church excommunicated everyone involved in polygamy, I'd be quite disappointed in the LDS Church (but I know it didn't happen). Those families living in polygamy weren't excommunicated. (That would have been cruel) They continued to live in polygamy into the 1960s.

You're aware of that, right? That while saying it was the practice and policy to excommunicate those who practiced polygamy, only those who publicly protested the abandonment of polygamy were punished by the Church? The thousands and thousands of polygamous families living in 1904 continued to live in polygamy.

Do you have some in your history? I certainly know many LDS who do.

So, when did the LDS Church put this policy in place? Before or after they didn't enforce the 1890 Manifesto? Or before or after they didn't enforce the 1904 Manifesto? Or did they keep track of the last polygamous family and spouse who died in the 1960s?

The LDS Church wasn't heartless enough to cut them all loose in 1904 . . . and they didn't. They just said they did.

13 posted on 12/26/2011 5:32:47 PM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: Dan(9698)
You'll also notice I didn't say that The Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints currently practiced polygamy (although it's still in D&C 132). But a lot of offshoots of the Brighamite branch of Joseph Smith's church do.

And every time some nutcase like Jeffs is in the news for polygamy, the history of polygamy in the LDS church is in the news. The LDS church and its members are required to tell people that they don't practice polygamy. The LDS Church has to issue statements that according to its style guide, nobody should use the words "Mormon" or "Mormonism" except with respect to The Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Polygamy is a big pain in the rear for good people like you, isn't it?

And every time some compound is breached, some guy is put on trial (particularly if he's taking child brides), and some cameras catch fleeting glances of girls in prairie dresses, it's bad public relations for the LDS church - even if it's not the LDS church involved.

What's the solution? Exactly what the Attorneys General of Arizona and Utah have stated on that website. Don't arrest people for polygamy unless things like child abuse are involved. Arresting people for polygamy is worse pubic relations for the LDS church than it is for the sect that gets raided.

And who calls the political shots in Utah? Not those small sects - but the people who get embarrassed by those polygamy arrests: the LDS, and good people like you.

So there's pressure not to arrest people for polygamy.

As a result, a lot of these people are permitted to practice as they may:

Short Creek Community
Latter Day Church of Christ
Apostolic United Brethren
Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
Church of the Firstborn of the Fulness [sic] of Times
Church of the Lamb of God
Church of the New Covenant in Christ
Confederate Nations of Israel
Righteous Branch of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
School of the Prophets
Centennial Park
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Kingdom of God
True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days
The Church of the Firstborn and the General Assembly of Heaven
Blackmore/Bountiful Community
Restoration Church of Jesus Christ
Order of Enoch
Aaronic Order
Zion's Order, Inc.
Perfected Church of Jesus Christ of Immaculate Latter-day Saints
Church of Jesus Christ (Bullaite)
Community of Christ
Church of Jesus Christ (Toneyite)
Independent RLDS / Restoration Branches
Church of Jesus Christ Restored 1830
Church of Christ (Lion of God Ministry/Clarkite)
Church of Jesus Christ (Zion's Branch)
Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Church of Christ (Temple Lot) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Fettingite) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ at Halley's Bluff (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Restored) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ "With the Elijah Message" (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Hancock) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Burtite) (Hendrickite)
Church of Israel (Hendrickite)
Church of Christ with the Elijah Message (The Assured Way of the Lord) (Hendrickite)
The Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)
Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
True Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
Restored Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite)
Holy Church of Jesus Christ (Strangite)
Church of Jesus Christ (Drewite) (Strangite)
True Church of Jesus Christ Restored (Strangite)
Pentecostal Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Whitmerite)

14 posted on 12/26/2011 5:42:49 PM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: bigheadfred; Colofornian

How many you gonna get???

- - - - - -
You live in Colorado, how many are you gonna take in?


15 posted on 12/26/2011 5:56:47 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: reaganaut

Who lives in Colorado?


16 posted on 12/26/2011 6:00:42 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: Dan(9698); Scoutmaster

It may be CURRENT policy (although I know at least 2 mainstream LDS polygamous families - one is a Bishop), but they STILL haven’t repudiated D&C 132 (the revelation giving polygamy).

Even OD 1 doesn’t mention recinding the doctrine, it is just a statement that WW would follow federal law.


17 posted on 12/26/2011 6:02:14 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: bigheadfred

Sorry, IDAHO, close enough. How many, Fred?


18 posted on 12/26/2011 6:05:15 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Dan(9698)
"It is the [earthly] policy and practice..."

It's still canon that polygamy is essential to one's eternal salvation and exaltation.

But the question I have about it is this;

...since it was taught to be essential for not only one's salvation and an essential qualifier for one to be granted entry into the celestial kingdom, why did God change His mind to suit man?

19 posted on 12/26/2011 6:20:10 PM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: reaganaut

Wait a minute. Idaho and Colorado. Close enough? CLOSE ENOUGH??? Will you stop at nothing????

Here’s the deal.

I don’t have any money. We live check to check. No insurance.

I lost my good paying job last year and had to do the unemployment/savings thing until I found another job.

Shortly after finding that job I had to use some savings for a medical problem. Then I helped my daughter move to Portland and that used more. THEN my DIL decided to become a full time junkie and to help keep the 2 grandbabies with my son I used more for the lawyer. And THEN my wife had to have a procedure. And the savings are gone.

As you will remember, my son is deaf. He can’t hear the kids (26 and 13 months) at night, so they moved back into the trailer with us. And he has no job.

The bright spot is I bought the trailer across the street last year for the son and DIL. It is sitting there empty, but the power and gas are on. And I have a lot of it fixed up. Money being tight has slowed that process some. I pay the lot rent. I need to get it finished so I can sell it. Or move the son back in.

The landlords won’t let me sublet . Nothing in it for them.

But Vigo (the landlord) could probably be talked into letting a couple or 6 12-14 year old girls move in. Under his supervision, of course. He was a Bishop you know.

Left up to me I simply could not afford to feed them. Just feeding us and paying double bills takes all I have.

There it is.

It is the best I can offer. (hangs head in shame)


20 posted on 12/26/2011 6:34:20 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: reaganaut
Even OD 1 doesn’t mention recinding the doctrine, it is just a statement that WW would follow federal law.

The fairlds.org take on the 1890 Manifesto is fascinating. Basically, FAIR says "hey, there was nothing wrong about all of those polygamous marriages that the LDS Church hid after 1890, because the 1890 Manifesto was really only a personal aspirational statement by WW, not by the Quorum of the Twelve. Nobody with any intelligence then or now ever thought it was binding on anyone, especially the LDS Church, or was actually intended to stop polygamy."

I'm paraphrasing, but it's a very long, dancing-on-the-head-of-a-pin, word-by-word argument. And FAIR doesn't explain why, if it's so clear that the 1890 Manifesto didn't amount to a hill of beans and had nothing to do with ending polygamy, the LDS Church continues to say that the LDS Church ended polygamy in 1890.

21 posted on 12/26/2011 6:35:50 PM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: bigheadfred

Wait a minute. Idaho and Colorado. Close enough? CLOSE ENOUGH??? Will you stop at nothing????

- - - - -
Both border Utah...

I’m sorry for your situation, but it also doesn’t give you licesne to demand Colo take in refugees with you not knowing his situation. Just sayin’

FWIW, my husband does pro-bono legal counsel for women leaving polygamy.


22 posted on 12/26/2011 6:54:02 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: reaganaut

I didn’t demand anything. I merely asked a question.

You just didn’t like the way I phrased it.


23 posted on 12/26/2011 7:02:43 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: Scoutmaster

The LDS Church wasn’t heartless enough to cut them all loose in 1904 . . . and they didn’t. They just said they did.

*************

LOL, I’m suddenly reminded of Rick Perry and Big Sis regarding illegals.

Don’t be “heartless”...bless all who break laws and go forth and replenish the earth while breaking the laws for Big Sis shall set them free.....to live on food stamps....


24 posted on 12/26/2011 7:14:46 PM PST by JouleZ (You are the company you keep.)
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To: bigheadfred; Colofornian

Your comment had the expectation that Colo wouldn’t put his money where his mouth is.


25 posted on 12/26/2011 8:13:02 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Scoutmaster

I had no idea there were so many polygamous LDS/spinoff groups. What on earth happens to the young men? The “extras”?


26 posted on 12/26/2011 8:20:28 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: Colofornian

Why isn’t SLC lds, down there taking these people in. I mean really we hear daily how generous and giving they are. How much money they put out towards charity.


27 posted on 12/26/2011 8:42:09 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you)
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To: little jeremiah

What on earth happens to the young men? The “extras”?

- - - - - -
Google “Lost Boys” and Utah, there are several articles and websites. Basically they are thrown out with nothing and live on the streets.


28 posted on 12/26/2011 8:44:16 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: little jeremiah

http://thehopeorg.org/boys.html


29 posted on 12/26/2011 8:45:46 PM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: bigheadfred
So what? The fleeing flds situations are worse. The crack about child molestation, sorry not a laughing matter.
30 posted on 12/26/2011 8:45:52 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you)
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To: svcw

At least I made an offer.

And BTW. HOW MANY ARE YOU TAKING IN????

SHOW US A COPY OF THE DONATION CHECK.

Otherwise shut your yap.


31 posted on 12/26/2011 9:32:13 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: reaganaut; Colofornian

How about it?

I’ll shut up when you prove it.


32 posted on 12/26/2011 9:35:17 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: bigheadfred; svcw; Colofornian

Prove what? I already told you my husband works with a ministry to polygamists to do pro-bono work for them.

And I saw no offer at all from you, Fred.


33 posted on 12/26/2011 9:39:26 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: bigheadfred

I don’t do checks. And my church is already organizing a team.
Child molestation is still not a laughing matter and your comment was disgusting.


34 posted on 12/26/2011 9:40:52 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you)
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To: Godzilla; Dan(9698)

Plural marriage as LDS was never lived in this matter but the anti Mormons take delight in disinformation and falsehoods.

anyone can call their organization just my adding another word to their name they have nothing to do with
original organization.

of course many antis here have said in the past that keeping the Lord’s Commandments were not realistic so why even try...

FLDS has the simular ideas as the antis in keeping the Lord’s Commandments so they each practiced their faith according to the whims of men not according to Heavenly Father plan of Happiness.


35 posted on 12/26/2011 9:46:39 PM PST by restornu (Love One Another)
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To: restornu
anyone can call their organization just my adding another word to their name they have nothing to do with original organization.

The Church of Latter-day Saints.

Oh, scratch that.

The Church Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

There. Fixed it for you.

I see what you mean. The name still doesn't explain that it's a Mormon church that has been re-written by a false prophet who chased after girls as young as fourteen, while married... Helen Mar Kimball was a mere child, but she met his fancy because she was young.

I wonder how she felt when he turned his affection upon her? Did she cry herself to sleep at night?

I bet her mother did. No mother would want their child to marry that man.

36 posted on 12/26/2011 10:05:46 PM PST by Pan_Yans Wife ("Real solidarity means coming together for the common good."-Sarah Palin)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife

At no time was it ever proven that JS sleep with HMK it was for eternity only not time.

Many like to imply that it did there is no record of it and some like to twist words to make it so but still that is also wrong to insinuate!

After the marriage vows HMK was return home with her father matter a fact she was to stay home that night and not attend a social function.


37 posted on 12/26/2011 10:18:55 PM PST by restornu (Love One Another)
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To: restornu; Pan_Yans Wife; Scoutmaster; Godzilla; Colofornian

Resty, how many spouses have you had that you did not have sex with???

Your naivete is amusing but really Resty, like the guns, YOUR OWN LDS SOURCES state that polygamy is the same as the FLDS practices it, that women were thought of like livestock, badly treated and that Smith had sex with most if not all of his wives.


38 posted on 12/26/2011 10:28:05 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: reaganaut; restornu

Marriage means marriage. It does not mean friendship.

My sister and her husband are childless because of medical reasons. If they want to have children, they would have to adopt.

They are not best friends who platonically kiss each other on the cheek and hold hands at the movies.

They are in a true marriage with a marital bond. Adults know what this means.

Resty is playing games and she’s lying. We know she’s lying. She must lie and cover her ears while saying, “La-la-la-la-la! I can’t hear you!” in order to make herself feel better.

But, I doubt it really works. I think deep down she knows the truth about his relationship with Helen Mar Kimball, otherwise she wouldn’t so vehemently defend her chastity. It wouldn’t matter to her.

If you notice, I didn’t mention the word sex in my post. I only mentioned the word marriage. And that alone set Resty off. This is because she knows that the marriage was a true marriage with a sexual relationship and she can’t defend it.


39 posted on 12/26/2011 10:38:06 PM PST by Pan_Yans Wife ("Real solidarity means coming together for the common good."-Sarah Palin)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife

If you notice, I didn’t mention the word sex in my post.

“I wonder how she felt when he turned his affection upon her? Did she cry herself to sleep at night?

I bet her mother did. No mother would want their child to marry that man.” ~Pan_Yans Wife

****

Excuse me you are not the first person to bring up this canard.

I know you can blandly call me a liar and make it personal because I am LDS the RM will not correct you LDS have no standing on FR.

You are just one of many who thinks they have privilege knowledge that the Practicing LDS does not have access too
yet for some reason lack the knowledge to understand what the meaning of words are in the LDS faith.

Eternal meaning Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven

Time and Eternity mean now and for ever aka mortal and immortal.

Just because one does not understand does not give one the right to change it to suit your earthly ways.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts

Matthew 18

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:...


40 posted on 12/27/2011 12:08:18 AM PST by restornu (Love One Another)
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To: Colofornian

Those who LEAVE the Salt Lake City branch of MORMONism have quite similar experiences.


41 posted on 12/27/2011 4:35:39 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dragonblustar
All on food stamps..... What a scam. I bet those polygamists on TLC collect food stamps as well.

"It's for the chilrun!" is RUINING this country!

Subsidizing all TYPES of bad behavior, merely gets you and EXPANDED group of "chilrun" that need 'help'!

42 posted on 12/27/2011 4:38:01 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Scoutmaster
In fact, in the case of Utah, the LDS Church had to give up polygamy for Utah to become a state (we won't get into the deceptive 1890 Manifesto, and the following Second Manifesto of 1904).

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...
I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President


43 posted on 12/27/2011 4:39:52 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Dan(9698)
It is the policy and practice for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to excommunicate anyone involved in polygamy or who are in any polygamous organization.

Why?

All they are doing is following SCRIPTURE!!! and the Voice of the PROPHET!!!


"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)


Excommunicated??

Beats the HELL out of being DAMNED!

44 posted on 12/27/2011 4:43:04 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Godzilla
while that is true Dan, the revelation from 'god' to smith...

POLYGAMY is STILL the Official Doctrine of  The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints - based in Salt Laker City.

NOTHING was changed in the MORMONic scriptures.

Here - read for yourself - just SEE if 'GOD' told them to change ANYTHING about their belief.


 

 
 
 
 
 
OFFICIAL DECLARATION—1

To Whom It May Concern:

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy

I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.

There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.

WILFORD WOODRUFF
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 




President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:

“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.

Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.







 

EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF
REGARDING THE MANIFESTO

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all. . . .

I have had some revelations of late, and very important ones to me, and I will tell you what the Lord has said to me. Let me bring your minds to what is termed the manifesto. . . .

The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.

The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place
if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.

. . . I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write. . . .

I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us.
(Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)
 
 
 

Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. . . . All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it.
 
(From a discourse at the sixth session of the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, April 1893. Typescript of Dedicatory Services, Archives, Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah.)
 

 
 
 
 
What kind of  'Leadership' is THIS???
 
compared to...
 
 
 
 
Hebrews 11:35-40
 35.  Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection.
 36.  Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison.
 37.  They were stoned ; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated--
 38.  the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground. 
 
 
or compared to...
 

Acts 4:19.  But Peter and John replied, "Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God's sight to obey you rather than God.
 


 
So much for an 'Everlasting Covenant' that thundered out of Heaven!!!
 
Well; it DID last about 47 years!
 



 
Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...
I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President

45 posted on 12/27/2011 4:44:51 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Scoutmaster
You'll also notice I didn't say that The Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints currently practiced polygamy (although it's still in D&C 132). But a lot of offshoots of the Brighamite branch of Joseph Smith's church do.

WHAT!!??

What's this CORPORATION that you are talking about???





Corporation of the President

ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION
of the
CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS
CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS.

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

STATE OF UTAH

COUNTY OF SALT LAKE

I, the undersigned, having been duly chosen and appointed President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, in conformity with the rites, regulations and discipline of said Church, being desirous of forming a corporation for the purpose of acquiring, holding and disposing of Church or religious society property, for the benefit of religion, for works of charity and for public worship, under and pursuant to the provisions of Chapter 3, Title 19, of the Compiled Laws of Utah, 1917, on "Churches and Religious Societies," and all acts amendatory thereof and supplementary thereto, for that purpose do hereby make and subscribe, in duplicate, the following

ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION

First: The name of this corporation shall be the CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS.

Second: The object of this corporation shall be to acquire, hold and dispose of such real and personal property as may be conveyed to or acquired by said corporation for the benefit of the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a religious society, for the benefit of religion, for works of charity and for public worship. Such real and personal property may be situated, either within the State of Utah, or elsewhere, and this corporation shall have power, without any authority or authorization from the members of said Church or religious society, to grant, sell, convey, rent, mortgage, exchange, or otherwise dispose of any part or all of such property.

Third: The estimated value of the property of which I hold the legal title for the purpose aforesaid, at the time of making these Articles of Incorporation, is One Million, Five Hundred Thousand Dollars.

Fourth: The title of the person making these Articles of Incorporation is "PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS."

Fifth: The corporation seal shall contain the words, "Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints," and an impression thereof is hereto affixed.

[Seal] [Signed] Heber J. Grant
President of the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints.

STATE OF UTAH
SS:
COUNTY OF SALT LAKE

On this 26th day of November, 1923, before me, Arthur Winter, a Notary Public in and for said County, personally appeared HEBER J. GRANT, who is known to me to be the person whose name is subscribed to the foregoing instrument as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and duly acknowledged to me that he executed the same as such President.

[Seal] [Signed] Arthur Winter
Notary Public
Residing at Salt Lake City, Utah.
My commission expires Dec. 1, 1923.


AMENDMENT TO

ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION
of the
CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS
CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS.

 

 

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
STATE OF UTAH ss.
COUNTY OF SALT LAKE

HEBER J. GRANT, being first duly sworn, deposes and says:

That he is now and for more than twenty years last past has been the duly chosen and appointed President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and as such President has been since on or about the 26th day of November, 1923, and now is, the legally constituted Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter=day Saints, a corporation sole; that under and pursuant to Section 18-7-5 R.S.U. 1933 he hereby amends Article "Fourth" of said Articles of Incorporation as now of record in the proper offices of this and other states, said article as amended to read as follows:

ARTICLE FOURTH

Fourth: The title of the person making these articles of incorporation is "President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." He and his successor in office shall be deemed and are hereby created a body politic and corporation sole with perpetual succession, having all the powers and rights and authority in these articles specified or provided for by law. But in the event of death or resignation from office of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or in the event of a vacancy in that office from any cause, the President or Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of said Church, or one of the members of said Quorum thereunto designated by that Quorum, shall, pending the installation of a successor President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, be the corporation sole under these articles, and the laws pursuant to which they are made, and shall be and is authorized in his official capacity to execute in the name of the corporation all documents or other writings necessary to the carrying on of its purposes, business and objects, and to do all things in the name of the corporation which the original signer of the articles of incorporation might do; it being the purpose of these articles that there shall be no failure in succession in the office of such corporation sole.

[Signed] Heber J. Grant
President of the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints,
corporation sole.
[Seal]

Subscribed and sworn to before me this 18 day of June, 1940.
[the name of Notary Public not shown on copy of amendment]

(Original in State of Utah Archives, Salt Lake City, Utah)


ARTICLES OF AMENDMENT
TO THE

ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION
of the
CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS
CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS.


A UTAH CORPORATION SOLE

Pursuant to the provisions of Section 16-7-5 of the Utah Code Annotated 1953 (as amended) relating to amendments of articles of incorporation of corporations sole, the CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS, a Utah Corporation Sole, does hereby amend its Articles of Incorporation by adding an additional Paragraph V thereto as follows:

Upon the winding up and dissolution of this corporation, after paying or adequately providing for the debts and obligations of the corporation, the remaining assets shall be distributed to a nonprofit fund, foundation or corporation, which is organized and operated exclusively for charitable, educational, or religious and/or scientific purposes and which has established its tax-exempt status under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the undersigned has caused these presents to be executed this 19th day of November, 1973.

CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE
CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY
SAINTS, a Utah Corporation Sole

By: [signed] Harold B. Lee
Harold B. Lee, Corporation Sole

STATE OF UTAH ) ss:
County of Salt Lake )

HAROLD B. LEE, being first duly sworn, deposes and says: That he is now and ever since July 7, 1972, has been the duly chosen and appointed President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and, as such president, is now and ever since said date has been the legally constituted CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS, a Utah Corporation Sole; that the original Articles of Incorporation of said Corporation Sole were executed by Heber J. Grant, President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints; that he, Harold B. Lee, is the successor in office to the said Heber J. Grant; that he, Harold B. Lee, executed the foregoing Articles of Amendment as said Corporation Sole.

[signed] Harold B. Lee

SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN to before me this 19th day of November, 1973.

[signed] Wilford W Kirton, Jr
NOTARY PUBLIC
Residing at Salt Lake City, Utah
My commission expires:
2-3-77


Articles of Incorporation as amended:

ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION

First: The name of this corporation shall be the CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS.

Second: The object of this corporation shall be to acquire, hold and dispose of such real and personal property as may be conveyed to or acquired by said corporation for the benefit of the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a religious society, for the benefit of religion, for works of charity and for public worship. Such real and personal property may be situated, either within the State of Utah, or elsewhere, and this corporation shall have power, without any authority or authorization from the members of said Church or religious society, to grant, sell, convey, rent, mortgage, exchange, or otherwise dispose of any part or all of such property.

Third: The estimated value of the property of which I hold the legal title for the purpose aforesaid, at the time of making these Articles of Incorporation, is One Million, Five Hundred Thousand Dollars.

Fourth: The title of the person making these articles of incorporation is "President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." He and his successor in office shall be deemed and are hereby created a body politic and corporation sole with perpetual succession, having all the powers and rights and authority in these articles specified or provided for by law. But in the event of death or resignation from office of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or in the event of a vacancy in that office from any cause, the President or Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of said Church, or one of the members of said Quorum thereunto designated by that Quorum, shall, pending the installation of a successor President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, be the corporation sole under these articles, and the laws pursuant to which they are made, and shall be and is authorized in his official capacity to execute in the name of the corporation all documents or other writings necessary to the carrying on of its purposes, business and objects, and to do all things in the name of the corporation which the original signer of the articles of incorporation might do; it being the purpose of these articles that there shall be no failure in succession in the office of such corporation sole.

Fifth: Upon the winding up and dissolution of this corporation, after paying or adequately providing for the debts and obligations of the corporation, the remaining assets shall be distributed to a nonprofit fund, foundation or corporation, which is organized and operated exclusively for charitable, educational, or religious and/or scientific purposes and which has established its tex-exempt status under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.

Sixth: The corporate seal shall contain the words, "Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints," and an impression thereof is hereto affixed.

46 posted on 12/27/2011 4:46:47 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Scoutmaster
The LDS church and its members are required to tell people that they don't 'practice' polygamy.

HMMmmm...

47 posted on 12/27/2011 4:47:40 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Scoutmaster
The LDS church and its members are required to tell people that they don't practice polygamy.

Be sure to think SALT LAKE CITY branch.

The MORMONs that did NOT flee to UTAH with the fearful ones; the ones who managed SOMEhow to escape the MURDEROUS MOBS who were HELLBENT on KILLING MORMONs!!! (did I emphasis the MYTH enough?); those who remained and held onto ALL the property left behind - becoming the R{eformed}lds (now Community of Christ) claim that polygamy NEVER happened under Joseph Smith. They say it was only after his death and the SPLIT that it was started and that THEIR group NEVER engaged in it.

48 posted on 12/27/2011 4:54:46 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: bigheadfred
Here’s the deal.

Talk to your Bishop. SURELY the church will help you folks out.


49 posted on 12/27/2011 4:57:53 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: bigheadfred
I merely asked a question.

You just didn’t like the way I phrased it.

Do you have a Temple Recommend®?

50 posted on 12/27/2011 4:59:34 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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