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Pope highlights Mary's role as 'woman of the apocalypse'
Catholic News Agency ^ | 12/28/11 | Benjamin Mann

Posted on 12/27/2011 8:24:19 PM PST by RnMomof7

Rome, Italy, Dec 8, 2011 / 04:28 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- Pope Benedict XVI reflected on the biblical description of a “woman clothed with the sun” in his remarks at Rome's Spanish Steps on the 2011 Feast of the Immaculate Conception.

“What is the meaning of this image? It represents the Church and Our Lady at the same time,” the Pope told the crowd assembled before the nearby statue commemorating the 1854 definition of Mary's Immaculate Conception. “Before all, the 'woman' of the apocalypse is Mary herself.”

The 12th chapter of the Biblical Apocalypse – also known as the Book of Revelation – describes the glorification and persecution of “a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.”

Though not named, this woman is described as the mother of the Messiah. In poetic language akin to the Bible's other prophetic books, Saint John says she faced the threat of “a huge red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns,” and “fled into the desert where she had a place prepared by God.”

Pope Benedict, offering white roses in his traditional yearly act of Marian veneration, gave listeners his insight into the connection between the Virgin Mary and the Church – portrayed in the Apocalypse through the single image of the sun-clad woman.

“She appears 'clothed in sunlight,' that is, clothed in God,” observed the Pope. “The Virgin Mary is in fact completely surrounded by the light of God and lives in God … The 'Immaculate One' reflects with all of her person the light of the 'sun' which is God.”

“Besides representing Our Lady, this sign personifies the Church, the Christian community of all times,” he continued.

The Church, he explained, is “pregnant, in the sense that she carries Christ” and “must give birth to him to the world.”

“This is the labor of the pilgrim Church on earth, that in the midst of the consolations of God and the persecutions of the world, she must bring Christ to men.”

Because the Church continues to bring Jesus into the world, Pope Benedict said, it “finds opposition in a ferocious adversary,” symbolized in scripture by the “dragon” that has “tried in vain to devour Jesus,” and now “directs his attacks against the woman – the Church – in the desert of the world.”

“But in every age the Church is supported by the light and the strength of God,” the Pope said. “She is nurtured in the desert with the bread of his word and the Holy Eucharist.”

“And in this way, in every tribulation, through all of the trials that she finds in the course of the ages and in the different parts of the world, the Church suffers persecution, but comes out the victor.”

Pope Benedict said the Church should not fear persecution, which is bound to arise, but will be defeated.

“The only pitfall of which the Church can and must be afraid is the sin of her members,” he warned, highlighting the key difference between the Church and the woman who is its prototype.

“While in fact Mary is immaculate – free from every stain of sin – the Church is holy, but at the same time marked by our sins.”

While sinless herself, Mary remains in solidarity with the Church struggling against sin.

“That is why the people of God, pilgrims in time, turn to their heavenly mother and ask for her help,” explained Pope Benedict.

He stressed the world's need for the hope brought by the “woman clothed with the sun” – “especially in this difficult moment for Italy, for Europe and for different parts of the world.”

“May Mary help us to see that there is a light beyond the veil of fog that appears to envelop reality,” he declared.

“For this also we, especially on this day, never cease to ask with filial trust for her help: 'O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to you.'”


TOPICS: Apologetics; General Discusssion; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: absolutetruth; altereddate; ancientdoctrine; biblicaltruth; blessedartthou; blessedartythou; calvinismisdead; catholic; christ; falsedoctrine; fullofgrace; hailmary; idolatry; ignorantmariology; ignorantproddies; jealousmoonbats; keywordjerk; keywordjerks; lordiswiththee; mariology; maryalwayspoints2him; pope; sin; thelordiswiththee; theonetruechurch
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1 posted on 12/27/2011 8:24:36 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: 1000 silverlings; metmom; boatbums; Quix; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; ...

Mariology ping


2 posted on 12/27/2011 8:25:58 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7

Merry Christmas Rnmom!


3 posted on 12/27/2011 8:33:25 PM PST by fkabuckeyesrule
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To: Salvation; NYer; Mrs. Don-o; Dr. Brian Kopp

It seems bold commentary about scripture, the Messiah, His mmother and the Church bothers some folks.


4 posted on 12/27/2011 8:33:33 PM PST by Notwithstanding (1998 ACU ratings: Newt=100%, Paul=88%, Santorum=84% [the last year all were in Congress])
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To: RnMomof7; thesaleboat; Sick of Lefties; Chainmail; StrongandPround; lilyramone; crusadersoldier; ...

My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen

Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.

Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.

Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.

Amen.

She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.

(Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther’s Works, Pelikan et al, vol. 21, 326)


5 posted on 12/27/2011 8:35:13 PM PST by narses
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To: RnMomof7

I went to Catholic school for 12 years and I think this devotion to Mary stuff is bunk. Who thinks up this stuff anyway??


6 posted on 12/27/2011 8:44:12 PM PST by ExtremeUnction
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To: RnMomof7

I went to Catholic school for 12 years and I think this devotion to Mary stuff is bunk. Who thinks up this stuff anyway??


7 posted on 12/27/2011 8:44:34 PM PST by ExtremeUnction
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To: ExtremeUnction

Satan?


8 posted on 12/27/2011 8:48:12 PM PST by doc1019 (Romney will never get my vote!)
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To: ExtremeUnction

Yes, often pearls are cast before swine.
What a waste of everyone’s time and resources.


9 posted on 12/27/2011 8:53:32 PM PST by Notwithstanding (1998 ACU ratings: Newt=100%, Paul=88%, Santorum=84% [the last year all were in Congress])
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: ExtremeUnction
Who thinks up this stuff anyway??

That one's Easy: The king of hell.

11 posted on 12/27/2011 8:56:50 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: RnMomof7

Boy that’s a mythology if I ever read one. They have gone completely off track.


12 posted on 12/27/2011 8:58:02 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: ExtremeUnction

In 12 years you never read Genesis, the Gospel of Luke or The Apocalypse of St. John, not to mention the Church Fathers? That’s hard to believe.


13 posted on 12/27/2011 9:00:34 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: ExtremeUnction

God.


14 posted on 12/27/2011 9:02:27 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: CynicalBear

You probably have no idea what Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and many other revolutionaries would have to say about your ignorance of the topic at hand.


15 posted on 12/27/2011 9:03:03 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: RnMomof7
The Church, he explained, is “pregnant, in the sense that she carries Christ” and “must give birth to him to the world.”

No.

Christ does not need the Church to be born in the world.

Christ needs nothing, by definition.

Matthew 28:18 - "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."

John 3:35 - "The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand."

16 posted on 12/27/2011 9:04:36 PM PST by Talisker (History will show the Illuminati won the ultimate Darwin Award.)
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To: CynicalBear

Off track and round the delusional, linguistic bend.


17 posted on 12/27/2011 9:04:47 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: RnMomof7

Oy


18 posted on 12/27/2011 9:05:25 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: A.A. Cunningham
>> You probably have no idea what Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and many other revolutionaries would have to say about your ignorance of the topic at hand.<<

Go ask Michael Servetus what I think of men like Calvin.

19 posted on 12/27/2011 9:08:30 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: A.A. Cunningham

I don’t know of a single Proddy who considers their idiotic notions about Mary and the Revelation Scriptures to be

remotely the least bit infallible.

They may well have been as clueless as the Pope on the matter.


20 posted on 12/27/2011 9:08:49 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

U G L Y post.
Wow, Quix.


21 posted on 12/27/2011 9:25:51 PM PST by onyx (PLEASE SUPPORT FREE REPUBLIC:DONATE MONTHLY! Sarah's New Ping List - tell me if you want on it.)
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To: onyx

LOL.

imho, not one/trillion trillionth

as ugly as blasphemy is to God and to

the Authentic Mary.


22 posted on 12/27/2011 9:28:33 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

23 posted on 12/27/2011 9:39:31 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: RnMomof7

bookmark


24 posted on 12/27/2011 9:57:35 PM PST by GOP Poet (Time for Bambi and his commie crew to go.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp; Quix

IDOLATRY!


25 posted on 12/27/2011 10:19:25 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name

INDEED.

Thanks.

As you may know, I’m not allowed to post to some though they are allowed to post to me.


26 posted on 12/27/2011 10:25:25 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: RnMomof7

Not much here that is not “de fide” of the faith.

Mary is the women mentioned in revelations, an apocalyptic book of the New Testament.

She is clothed with the sun, which alludes to the power of God overshadowing her as mentioned in Lk 1:35.

The doctrine of the sinless Mary is one that incorporates God’s predestining grace which is essential to understanding the incarnation.

In a woman’s pregnancy, the child and mother share a completely intimate bond. If that Child is God (See Incarnation), than that bond is of a caliber which no living creature could sustain unless they were wholly free from sin.

Her grace is God’s grace reflected in her. Hail Mary, Full of Grace. In the prayer, the Lord is with you, the fundamental doctrine of the incarnation is preserved.

What does she reflect? The incarnation, Jesus.

All grace, and all salvation come from Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ is the incarnate son of God.

The incarnated son of God, to be fully man, must assume His humanity from a living human being, or he does not assume our humanity.

He chose Mary.

He prepared Mary to be His temple before her birth.

He made Mary full of grace in order that His image might bring the world from out of darkness and into the light.

She is therefore by analogy “clothed with the sun,” representing the apocalyptic writing.


27 posted on 12/27/2011 11:03:15 PM PST by Bayard
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To: ExtremeUnction

Knowing the quality of religious instruction in so many Catholic schools, I can easily believe you don’t know a thing about the subject. I am reminded of a remark by Bertrand Russell about his own schooling, to wit: “We were taught our religion by agnostics.” My guess is that your teachers were agnostic in a different sense. More like quiests. (Look it up.)


28 posted on 12/27/2011 11:18:27 PM PST by RobbyS
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To: Bayard

Plus the term “theotokos,” implies the dogma of the Incarnation, which was defined by the series of councils ending at Chalcedon. It is a product of that controversy.


29 posted on 12/27/2011 11:22:27 PM PST by RobbyS
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To: Bayard; metmom; presently no screen name; RnMomof7; CynicalBear
Photobucket

Photobucket

One plausible interpretation:

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/bb000415.htm

The Woman Clothed with the Sun


When Brother Branham was asked, "Is Revelation 12 speaking of the Bride?" He replied, "Revelation 12 does not pertain to the Bride . . . it's Israel, the church" (C.O.D. 1145:Q137).

Please open your Bibles to Revelation 12. This chapter outlines the earthly journey of the believers in Jesus as Messiah. The woman clothed with the Sun is the church in the sense of those who have separated from the world and identified with Jesus Christ. The woman symbolizes the elect. Since the revelation in this chapter will be received by the 144,000 elect Israelites during the tribulation, three and a half years after the first resurrection and the translation of the living Bride, we should view this chapter through the eyes of those Hebrew believers.

Revelation 12 spans Matthew 1:1 to Revelation 11:19. From the birth of Messiah, His confirmation of the Abrahamic Covenant for three and a half years, His rejection and crucifixion as foretold in Daniel 9:27, His ascension, and fulfillment of the Promise -- from the Day of Pentecost and the redemption of the Gentiles during Israel's apostacy and spiritual blindness -- to Israel's revival and the consummation. In this time the sixfold purpose of Gabriel's visit to Daniel (9:24) will be fulfilled under the Seven Seals, Seven Trumpets, Seven Vials and Three Woes, bringing-in the Millennium.

"And there appeared a great sign in heaven; a woman clothed with the Sun, and the Moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars. She was pregnant and screamed in the anguish of delivery."

This woman represents Israel, the mother church who brought forth Messiah and has crossed from Orthodox Law to the Christian Gospel. The Moon is a reflection of the perfect light of the Sun in its absence and becomes superfluous once the Sun has risen. The Sun types the Word or Light of God; Jesus is the Light of the World made flesh. The Moon types the Law, reflecting good things to come. In an eclipse, the world comes between the Sun light and the Moon, bringing darkness upon the earth as in the total eclipse (December 30, 1963) before Pope Paul VI visited Jerusalem (January 4-6, 1964).

The woman is under the headship of the glory of twelve stars which are the twelve apostles who crown the New Testament. Ephesians 2:20, "The church is build on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ being the chief cornerstone". No other foundation can be laid (I Corinthians 3:11; Matthew 19:28). Like the Sun, true stars are on fire (or full of the Spirit) and generate their own Light (Matthew 5:14). Although the Law is still glowing, it has fulfilled its purpose and is no longer needed. She has risen above it, clothed in the Light of the PRESENT Truth (I John 1:7).

Joseph, a type of Jesus Christ, was Spiritual and loved by his father but hated of his brethren. Both Joseph and Jesus married a Gentile Bride. When Joseph's father blessed his two sons, God crossed Israel's hands so that the greatest blessing passed to the younger. This heavenly sign shows the blessing is crossing from Israel the elder to the younger Gentile Church (Genesis 48:11-22).

Jesus came first to Israel, commissioning His disciples, "Go not in the way of the Gentiles or into any city of the Samaritans, but rather go to the lost sheep of the House of Israel" (Matthew 10:5-6). The S-O-N Light was anointing the woman because He came to His own and an election received Him. Because "Israel knew Him NOT", she is travailing under Roman and "Jewish" persecution, to bear the Gospel church, and pass the blessing FROM Israel TO the Gentiles.

Acts 15:14-17, "Simon Peter has just explained (in verses 7-9) how God visited the Gentiles in the House of Cornelius at the start of the Church (Acts 10), to call a people for His Name, a Gentile Bride. To this agree the Words of the prophets; as it is written, 'After this I will return, and will rebuild the House of David, which has fallen down; and I will rebuild its very ruins and I will set it up again (or restore them to the Promise I made with the Fathers): So that the rest of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom My Name has been invoked', says the Lord, Who does all these things'." First God would call out a Gentile Bride for His Son (Genesis 9:27; Isaiah 11:10; 54:1-5; Amos 9:11), then He will return to Israel during Daniel's Seventieth Week and reconfirm the Abrahamic Covenant their forefathers had rejected (Daniel 9:27).

Revelation 12:3-5, "And there appeared another sign in heaven; a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail gathered a third of the stars, and cast them to the Earth: and the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man Child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her Child was caught up unto God, and to His throne".

The red dragon is Satan, here working through Rome, the fourth Gentile empire of Nebuchadnezzar's dream (Daniel 2). We know this is Imperial Rome (before the Roman Catholic church organized) as the crowns are on the seven Emperors who deified themselves, whereas Revelation 13:1 is Papal Rome and it is the ten kings of the Holy Roman Empire who are crowned (Revelation 17:9-12).

The tail of the fiery red dragon signifies the "tale" by which he deceived Israel, causing Shem, the third part of man to reject his very Messiah. The deceived "stars" were blotted from the Book of Life (Isaiah 9:15; Psalm 69:26-28).

When Jesus was born, Caesar Augustus, who from his accession called himself "son of the divine Julius", ruled Rome, and the Edomite king, Herod the Great, ruled Rome's colony of Judea. The insignia on the pennants of the Roman armies was a red dragon. When Satan heard Jesus was born, he tried to kill all boys two years and younger as he had tried to destroy Moses when Pharaoh ordered Israelite boys killed at birth. Moses also typed Jesus.

God warned Joseph in a dream and he fled with Mary and Jesus to Egypt where he remained until after Herod's death. Herod knew the Hebrew prophecies and feared his Hasmonaean House might forfeit its kingdom to the House of David.

Rome has been the enemy of God's church under both Old and New Covenants. The prophet said it would be (Daniel 2). America is the image of Rome in the political as Protestant denominations are the image of the Roman Catholic church in the spiritual. As Rome has persecuted the church from the beginning, killing scores of millions who refused to receive its mark of the beast, it will martyr the foolish virgin and 144,000 elect Hebrews when Israel receives the Gospel in the end.

Revelation 13:11-15, "And I saw another beast coming up out of the Earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke like a dragon, exerting all the power of the first beast on his behalf, and causes the Earth and all who dwell there to deify and worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

He does great wonders, making fire fall from the sky to the Earth in men's sight (the first Atomic bombs). By these signs he is permitted to perform in behalf of the first beast he is able to deceive everyone on earth, commanding them to make an image to the beast, which was fatally wounded by a sword, yet is alive. And he was empowered to give life to the image (a world confederation of Protestant churches), so that it could execute all who refuse to worship the image of the beast".

Imperial Rome was mortally wounded, her Empire in decline, when Emperor Constantine united the nominal Christian church with the State at the First Nicea Council of AD325, transforming Rome from a natural to a spiritual empire.

In AD337, Constantine founded a new Capital in the city of Byzantium in Asia Minor, away from the troubles of Italy, modestly renamed "Constantinople", (now Istanbul, Turkey). This change created rivalry within the administration, eventually splitting the empire and later the Roman church, between East and West as symbolized by the legs of the image in Nebuchadnezzar's dream (Daniel 2).

Emperor Theodosius who was the last ruler of a united empire, outlawed the old gods, and made conversion to Roman Catholicism compulsory. At his death in AD395, the Empire was divided between his two sons -- the East and West legs. The Gothic and Germanic tribes effectively conquered the Western Roman Empire in 410, leaving a ceremonial emperor on the imperial throne, and half the Empire was occupied by the warring barbarian tribes of Gaul, the Germanic Visigoths, and the Hun. As the non-Germanic Hun were the Dragon's seed, these powers embodied forces from which Western Europe has never been free.

Pope Leo's intervention to persuade Attila the Hun not to invade Rome was crucial in augmenting the power of the Roman church and laying the foundation of the temporal power of the popes. It was thus that the primacy of Rome's bishop was asserted over all other bishops. As the Council of Chalcedon stated in 451, "Peter has spoken by Leo; let him be anathema who believes otherwise".

From this, the doctrine that papal power was granted by Christ to Peter, and that power was passed on by Peter to his successors, began to take firm root. But the Western Empire had merely become a ceremonial show for various Germanic generals. That ended in AD476, when the final emperor was deposed, leaving Germanic kings governing every portion. Effectively the Western Empire had fallen, but forces were already at work to mold a new Roman Empire out of the ruins.

In 554, the Emperor Justinian succeeded in that restoration. He saw himself as God's agent, destroying barbarian heretics, winning back the lost provinces of the West, and healing the divisions inflicted on Rome by the barbarian invaders in 476. He acknowledged the supremacy of the Pope in the West. At Justinian's death in 565, the resources of the restored Empire had been depleted and subsequent invasions once again divided East and West for a further two centuries. But the principal focus shifted to the West, as Papal Rome turned its eyes to the powerful Frankish, German and Austrian kings at the heart of Europe.

The transformation of Rome from Imperial to Papal power healed her mortal wound, and today Rome rules a universal Empire with greater power than ever she had under the Caesars.

Rome and America in the natural, and the Roman Catholic church and her Protestant image in the spiritual, are type and antitype. Through her (once) Protestant image, Rome will ban and persecute the end-time Bride, as she sought to eliminate the early Church under martyrdom. Her image will do Rome's bidding, and they will kill the foolish virgin and other classes of the "saved", but the Bride will be translated.

The true Church is feminine in designation. In Revelation 18 to 22, Jesus calls her His Wife and His Bride, whereas in Revelation 17, He calls the Roman Catholic church a whore, the mother of harlots (her Protestant daughter churches) and abominations of the earth (her creed and rituals). Rome's military enforcer and image in the political realm is America, which is also feminine in designation. Brother Branham called America "the prostitute of the nations" because she broke her Constitution and hybrid her people as Jesus called Rome "the prostitute of the churches" because she broke her vow to Christ and hybrid His Word with Satan's wisdom to make a creed. America is the headquarters of Protestantism and the image of the "First Lady" that sits on seven hills.

The degradation of women began in Eden when Eve disbelieved God's Word. Satan has been working on women ever since, causing those he can deceive to ruin men, and causing the spiritual woman or second Eve, the Roman Catholic church, to destroy billions of souls. From Eden the degradation of women went to Babylon, then Rome. Now it's in America where the women have invaded the pulpits, cut their hair, put on garments pertaining to men and divorced their husbands. Hollywood leads the world in filth. And there it will be judged (Revelation 18:21-24).

Continued at the link.

30 posted on 12/27/2011 11:24:25 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix
As you may know, I’m not allowed to post to some though they are allowed to post to me.

No, I didn't know that but I'd like to know more about it.
31 posted on 12/28/2011 12:00:22 AM PST by presently no screen name
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To: Quix
Makes more sense to think that the Emperor was Nero/and other emperor at the end of the century. From your perspective, the Revelation of John was an effort to forecast the end of the world, but the many apocalypes of the time, were veiled commentaries on the present as well as a depiction of future events. As for the rest, it reminds us of the bile that produced the religious wars that turned reasonable men against both Protestantism and Catholic .Why happens when dialectic reaches the point where men can only scream and hurl insults at one another. Like this stuff.

Reminds me of our current political “dialogue,” where the only object is to make the other guy look bad.

32 posted on 12/28/2011 12:13:28 AM PST by RobbyS
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To: A.A. Cunningham; ExtremeUnction

It sounds like a typical experience in Vatican II “Catholic” schools.


33 posted on 12/28/2011 12:27:08 AM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: RnMomof7

Virgin Israel


34 posted on 12/28/2011 1:59:58 AM PST by xzins (Pray for Our Troops Remaining in Afghanistan, now that Iran Can Focus on Injuring Only Them)
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To: ExtremeUnction

Christ?

It’s IN the Bible. Oh, wait, the woman in the apocalypse giving birth to Christ couldn’t be the mother of Christ. You’re right; neo-Protestantism makes much more sense.

(Traditional Protestantism affirmed the role of Mary.)


35 posted on 12/28/2011 2:21:11 AM PST by dangus
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To: Talisker

>> The Church, he explained, is “pregnant, in the sense that she carries Christ” and “must give birth to him to the world.” <<

Read it again, Talisker. It doesn’t say Christ needs or must do anything. It says the Church must give birth to him. It’s an obligation of the Church, not of Christ.


36 posted on 12/28/2011 2:24:55 AM PST by dangus
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To: CynicalBear; A.A. Cunningham
Go ask Michael Servetus

    Deuteronomy 18:10-12 There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you.
What a thing to advise someone to do. Please read the Bible and learn what the Scriptures have to say.
37 posted on 12/28/2011 2:53:08 AM PST by Titanites
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To: Quix
Brother Branham
    Matthew 7:15 " Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

    Matthew 24:24 "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.


38 posted on 12/28/2011 3:18:13 AM PST by Titanites
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To: Religion Moderator; Quix
I’m not allowed to post to some though they are allowed to post to me.

How does one get on this list?

39 posted on 12/28/2011 3:21:42 AM PST by Titanites
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To: RnMomof7
“Before all, the 'woman' of the apocalypse is Mary herself.”

The Church is overcoming her post-Vatican II years in the desert faster than I thought possible. Deo Gratias.


40 posted on 12/28/2011 6:09:40 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: dangus; Talisker

Ever notice how anti-Catholics have (and I mean routinely) poor reading skills?


41 posted on 12/28/2011 6:23:45 AM PST by vladimir998
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To: CynicalBear
Go ask Michael Servetus what I think of men like Calvin.

Servetus was a Unitarian. Are you?

42 posted on 12/28/2011 6:39:05 AM PST by Campion ("It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins." -- Franklin)
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To: ExtremeUnction
Who thinks up this stuff anyway??

maybe Simon Magus, Babylon?

43 posted on 12/28/2011 6:41:30 AM PST by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: Quix
The woman symbolizes the elect.

"The elect" don't give birth to Jesus. Jesus gives new birth to them through baptism.

The woman of Revelation 12 does give birth to Jesus; the text flatly says so. It's amazing what you learn when you actually read the Bible, instead of just believing what "Brother So-and-so" tells you about it.

44 posted on 12/28/2011 6:41:43 AM PST by Campion ("It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins." -- Franklin)
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To: Titanites
>>What a thing to advise someone to do. Please read the Bible and learn what the Scriptures have to say.<<

You obviously missed the meaning of my post entirely. Good grief. Did you even bother to check the post I was responding to? I was accused of looking to men like Calvin as inspiration. I responded with the post I did to show that Calvin was an evil man who had Servetus burned at the stake. My intent was to show that I would look at Calvin the way Servetus did. Reading comprehension man.

45 posted on 12/28/2011 7:14:50 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Quix; Bayard; metmom; presently no screen name; RnMomof7; boatbums; caww

“it’s Israel, the church”? Has this thread become the center for myth and fables? The women in Revelation 12 is Israel. Also the “whore of Babylon” is not a political entity but is a religious entity “With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication”. The “whore of Babylon” is the “mother of harlots” meaning out of her all apostate religions sprang.


46 posted on 12/28/2011 7:32:28 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Campion
>>Servetus was a Unitarian.<<

And Calvin retained his murderous ways from his Catholicism.

47 posted on 12/28/2011 7:38:26 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: All; RnMomof7
Here are some Catholic views with Scripture and Tradition of early Church Fathers to Modern era.

Revelation Chapter 12

1 And a great sign was seen in heaven: a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars; [Return to Original Document]

Parallel

RSV 1: And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;

NRSV 1 A great portent appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

Douay 1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars:

NAB 1 A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

KJV 1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

WEB 1 A great sign was seen in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

ESV 1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

NASB 1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;

NIV 1 A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

YOUNG 1 And a great sign was seen in the heaven, a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars,

Greek 1: kai <2532> {AND} shmeion <4592> {A SIGN} mega <3173> {GREAT} wfqh <3700> (5681) {WAS SEEN} en <1722> {IN} tw <3588> {THE} ouranw <3772> {HEAVEN;} gunh <1135> {A WOMEN} peribeblhmenh <4016> (5772) {CLOTHED WITH} ton <3588> {THE} hlion <2246> {SUN,} kai <2532> {AND} h <3588> {THE} selhnh <4582> {MOON} upokatw <5270> {UNDER} twn <3588> podwn <4228> authV <846> {HER FEET,} kai <2532> {AND} epi <1909> {ON} thV <3588> kefalhV <2776> authV <846> {HER HEAD} stefanoV <4735> {A CROWN} asterwn <792> {OF STARS} dwdeka <1427> {TWELVE;}

Vulgate 1 et signum magnum paruit in caelo mulier amicta sole et luna sub pedibus eius et in capite eius corona stellarum duodecim

ASV 1 And a great sign was seen in heaven: a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars;

Darby 1And a great sign was seen in the heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars;

NKJV 1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.

Other Related Passages

Psalms 104 2: who coverest thyself with light as with a garment, who hast stretched out the heavens like a tent,

Song of Solomon 6 10: "Who is this that looks forth like the dawn, fair as the moon, bright as the sun, terrible as an army with banners?"

Matthew 24 30: then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory;

Galatians 4 26: But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.

Revelation 11 19: Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.

Library References

Victorinus [240-303 AD]

Commentary on the Apocalypse of the Blessed John 1. "And there was seen a great sign in heaven. A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. And being with child, she cried out travailing, and bearing torments that she might bring forth." The woman clothed with the sun, and having the moon under her feet, and wearing a crown of twelve stars upon her head, and travailing in her pains, is the ancient Church of fathers, and prophets, and saints, and apostles, which had the groans and torments of its longing until it saw that Christ, the fruit of its people according to the flesh long promised to it, had taken flesh out of the selfsame people. Moreover, being clothed with the sun intimates the hope of resurrection and the glory of the promise. And the moon intimates the fall of the bodies of the saints under the obligation of death, which never can fail. For even as life is diminished, so also it is increased. Nor is the hope of those that sleep extinguished absolutely, as some think, but they have in their darkness a light such as the moon. And the crown of twelve stars signifies the choir of fathers, according to the fleshly birth, of whom Christ was to take flesh. [Read More]

Methodius [Unknown]

Banquet of the Ten Virgins (Discourse 8)

John, in the course of the Apocalypse, says: "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: and she, being with child, cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man-child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to His throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days." So far we have given, in brief, the history of the woman and the dragon. But to search out and explain the solution of them is beyond my powers. Nevertheless, let me venture, trusting in Him who commanded to search the Scriptures. If, then, you agree with this, it will not be difficult to undertake it; for you will quite pardon me, if I am unable sufficiently to explain the exact meaning of the Scripture. [Read More]

Haydock, Fr. George Leo [1774-1849 AD]

Revelation 12

Ver. 1. A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet. By this woman, interpreters commonly understand the Church of Christ, shining with the light of faith, under the protection of the sun of justice, Jesus Christ. The moon, the Church, hath all changeable things of this world under her feet, the affections of the faithful being raised above them all. --- A woman: the Church of God. It may also, by allusion, be applied to our blessed Lady [the Virgin Mary]. The Church is clothed with the sun, that is, with Christ: she hath the moon, that is, the changeable things of the world, under her feet; and the twelve stars with which she is crowned, are the twelve apostles: she is in labour and pain, whilst she brings forth her children, and Christ in them, in the midst of afflictions and persecutions. (Challoner) --- On her head....twelve stars, her doctrine being delivered by the twelve apostles and their successors. (Witham) [Read More]

Newman, John Henry [1801-1890 AD]

Meditations and Devotions - Part 1

Thus was it that she became the Mother of the Christ, not in that way which pious women for so many ages had expected Him, but, declining the grace of such maternity, she gained it by means of a higher grace. And this is the full meaning of St. Elizabeth's words, when the Blessed Virgin came to visit her, which we use in the Hail Mary: "Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb." And therefore it is that in the Devotion called the "Crown of Twelve Stars" we give praise to God the Holy Ghost, through whom she was both Virgin and Mother. On the Annunciation (7) May 16 Mary is the "Mater Salvatoris," the Mother of the Saviour [Read More]

Catholic Encyclopedia

Blessed Virgin Mary

Apocalypse 12:1-6 [Read More]

The applicability of this passage to Mary is based on the following considerations: At least part of the verses refer to the mother whose son is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; according to Psalm 2:9, this is the Son of God, Jesus Christ, Whose mother is Mary. It was Mary's son that "was taken up to God, and to his throne" at the time of His heaven. The dragon, or the devil of the earthly paradise (cf. Apocalypse 12:9; 20:2), endeavoured to devour Mary's Son from the first moments of His birth, by stirring up the jealousy of Herod and, later on, the enmities of the Jews. Owing to her unspeakable privileges, Mary may well be described as "clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars". It is true that commentators generally understand the whole passage as applying literally to the Church, and that part of the verses is better suited to the Church than to Mary. But it must be kept in mind that Mary is both a figure of the Church, and its most prominent member. What is said of the Church, is in its own way true of Mary.

Hence the passage of the Apocalypse (12:5-6) does not refer to Mary merely by way of accommodation [108], but applies to her in a truly literal sense which appears to be partly limited to her, and partly extended to the whole Church. Mary's relation to the Church is well summed up in the expression "collum corporis mystici" applied to Our Lady by St. Bernardin of Siena. [109] [Read More]

Pius X, Pope [1844-1914 AD] Pope Pius X 2 February 1904 Immaculate Conception 24. Leaving aside charity towards God, who can contemplate the Immaculate Virgin without feeling moved to fulfill that precept which Christ called peculiarly His own, namely that of loving one another as He loved us? 'A great sign,' thus the Apostle St. John describes a vision divinely sent him, appears in the heavens: 'A woman clothed with the sun, and with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars upon her head' (Apoc. xii., 1). Everyone knows that this woman signified the Virgin Mary, the stainless one who brought forth our Head. The Apostle continues: 'And, being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered' (Apoc. xii., 2). John therefore saw the Most Holy Mother of God already in eternal happiness, yet travailing in a mysterious childbirth. What birth was it? Surely it was the birth of us who, still in exile, are yet to be generated to the perfect charity of God, and to eternal happiness. And the birth pains show the love and desire with which the Virgin from heaven above watches over us, and strives with unwearying prayer to bring about the fulfillment of the number of the elect. [Read More]

Pius XII, Pope [1888-1958 AD]

Defining the Dogma of the Assumption

24. Rv 12:1ff. [Read More] Paul VI, Pope [1908-1978 AD] Mary, the Great Sign The great sign which the Apostle John saw in heaven, "a woman clothed with the sun,"[1] is interpreted by the sacred Liturgy,[2] not without foundation, as referring to the most blessed Mary, the mother of all men by the grace of Christ the Redeemer. [Read More]

John Paul II, Pope [1920-2005 AD]

Pope John Paul II 25 March 1987 Mary in Life of Pilgrim Church

11. In the salvific design of the Most Holy Trinity, the mystery of the Incarnation constitutes the superabundant fulfillment of the promise made by God to man after original sin, after that first sin whose effects oppress the whole earthly history of man (cf. Gen. 3:15). And so, there comes into the world a Son, 'the seed of the woman' who will crush the evil of sin in its very origins: 'he will crush the head of the serpent.' As we see from the words of the Protogospel, the victory of the woman's Son will not take place without a hard struggle, a struggle that is to extend through the whole of human history. The 'enmity,' foretold at the beginning, is confirmed in the Apocalypse (the book of the final events of the Church and the world), in which there recurs the sign of the 'woman,' this time 'clothed with the sun' (Rev. 12:1). [Read More]

Thanks to this special bond linking the Mother of Christ with the Church, there is further clarified the mystery of that 'woman' who, from the first chapters of the Book of Genesis until the Book of Revelation, accompanies the revelation of God's salvific plan for humanity. For Mary, present in the Church as the Mother of the Redeemer, takes part, as a mother, in that 'monumental struggle against the powers of darkness'[138] which continues throughout human history. And by her ecclesial identification as the 'woman clothed with the sun' (Rev. 12:1)[139] it can be said that 'in the Most Holy Virgin the Church has already reached that perfection whereby she exists without spot or wrinkle.' Hence, as Christians raise their eyes with faith to Mary in the course of their earthly pilgrimage, they 'strive to increase in holiness.'[140] Mary, the exalted Daughter of Sion, helps all her children, wherever they may be and whatever their condition, to find in Christ the path to the Father's house. [Read More]

EVANGELIUM VITAE (The Gospel of Life)

'A great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun' (Rev 12:1): the motherhood of Mary and of the Church [Read More]

Boundary Between Original Innocence and Redemption 1) Already the Greek translation of the Old Testament, the Septuagint, which goes back to about the 2nd century B.C., interprets Genesis 3:15 in the Messianic sense, applying the masculine pronoun autos in reference to the Greek neuter noun sperma (semen in the Vulgate). The Judaic tradition continues this interpretation. Christian exegesis, beginning with St. Irenaeus (Adv. Haer. III, 23, 7), sees this text as "proto-gospel," which announces the victory won by Jesus Christ over Satan. In the last few centuries scripture scholars have interpreted this pericope differently, and some of them challenge the Messianic interpretation in recent times. However, there has been a return to it under a rather different aspect. The Yahwist author unites prehistory with the history of Israel, which reaches its peak in the Messianic dynasty of David, which will fulfill the promises of Genesis 3:15 (cf. 2 Sam 7:12).

The New Testament illustrated the fulfillment of the promise in the same Messianic perspective: Jesus is the Messiah, descendant of David (cf. Rom 1:3; 2 Tim 2:8), born of woman (cf. Gal 4:4), a new Adam-David (cf. 1 Cor 15), who must reign "until he has put all his enemies under his feet" (1 Cor 15:25). Finally Revelation 12:1-10 presents the final fulfillment of the prophecy of Genesis 3:15. While not being a clear and direct announcement of Jesus as Messiah of Israel, it leads to him, however, through the royal and Messianic tradition that unites the Old and the New Testament. [Read More]

On the Dignity of Women From the "beginning," woman--like man--was created and "placed" by God in this order of love. The sin of the first parents did not destroy this order, nor irreversibly cancel it out. This is proved by the words of the Proto-evangelium (cf. Gen 3:15). Our reflections have focused on the particular place occupied by the "woman" in this key text of revelation. It is also to be noted how the same Woman, who attains the position of a biblical "exemplar," also appears within the eschatological perspective of the world and of humanity given in the Book of Revelation.[60] She is "a woman clothed with the sun," with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of stars (cf. Rev 12:1). One can say she is a Woman of cosmic scale, on a scale with the whole work of creation.

At the same time she is "suffering the pangs and anguish of childbirth" (Rev 12:2) like Eve "the mother of all the living" (Gen 3:20). She also suffers because "before the woman who is about to give birth" (cf. Rev 12:4) there stands "the great dragon...that ancient serpent" (Rev 12:9), already known from the Proto-evangelium: the Evil One, the "father of lies" and of sin (cf. Jn 8:44). The "ancient serpent" wishes to devour "the child." While we see in this text an echo of the Infancy Narrative (cf. Mt 2:13, 16), we can also see that the struggle with evil and the Evil One marks the biblical exemplar of the "woman" from the beginning to the end of history. It is also a struggle for man, for his true good, for his salvation. Is not the Bible trying to tell us that it is precisely in the "woman"--Eve-Mary--that history witnesses a dramatic struggle for every human being, the struggle for his or her fundamental "yes" or "no" to God and God's eternal plan for humanity? [Read More]

Message of Mary's Maternal Love

But " the first heaven and the first earth " still exist about us and within us. We cannot ignore it. But this enables us to recognize what an immense grace was granted to us human beings when, in the midst of our pilgrimage, there shone forth on the horizon of the faith of our times this "great portent, a woman" (cf. Rev 12:1). [Read More] Mary is Church's Pattern; Mary is First to Receive Glory Thus Mary is resplendent as the "beginning and the pattern of the Church" (preface of the Assumption), already fulfilled in her person by virtue of Christ's paschal mystery, that saving destiny to which God calls every human creature from eternity. On their earthly pilgrimage, believers look to Mary, the "woman clothed with the sun" (Rev 12:1), as a bright star showing us the goal to strive for on our daily journey. [Read More]

1. "A woman clothed with the sun". [Read More] On today's feast of the Assumption, the Church applies to Mary these words from the Revelation of St. John. In a certain sense, they tell us the end of the story of the "woman clothed with the sun": they speak to us of Mary assumed into heaven. Therefore, the liturgy rightly links them to the early part of Mary's history: the mystery of the Visitation in the house of St. Elizabeth. We know that the Visitation took place shortly after the Annunciation, as we read in the Gospel of St. Luke: "In those days Mary arose and went with haste into the hill country, to a city of Judah" (Lk 1:39). [Read More]

4. "Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple.... And a great portent appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars" (Rev 11:19; 12:1). [Read More]

Mary Shines As A Sign of Certain Hope

MARY SHINES AS A SIGN OF CERTAIN HOPE Pope John Paul II Angelus 14 August 1996 "Signum magnum apparuit in caelo...": "And a great sign appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars" (Rv 12: 1). [Read More]

Beatification of Francisco and Jacinta Marto According to the divine plan, "a woman clothed with the sun" (Rv 12: 1) came down from heaven to this earth to visit the privileged children of the Father. She speaks to them with a mother's voice and heart: she asks them to offer themselves as victims of reparation, saying that she was ready to lead them safely to God. And behold, they see a light shining from her maternal hands which penetrates them inwardly, so that they feel immersed in God just as-they explain-a person sees himself in a mirror. [Read More]

Mary's Enmity Towards Satan Was Absolute The 12th chapter of Revelation, which speaks of the "woman clothed with the sun" (12:1), is often cited too as biblical testimony on behalf of the Immaculate Conception. Current exegesis agrees in seeing in this woman the Community of God's People, giving birth in pain to the risen Messiah. Along with the collective interpretation, however, the text suggests an individual one in the statement: She brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron" (12:5). With this reference to child-birth, it is acknowledged that the woman clothed with the sun is in a certain sense identified with Mary, the woman who gave birth to the messiah. The woman-community is actually described with the features of the woman-Mother of Jesus. [Read More]

Ecclesia in Europa

CONCLUSION Entrustment to Mary 'A great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun' (Rev 12:1) [Read More]

The woman, clothed with the sun, in travail and ready to give birth (cf. Rev 12:1-2), can be seen as the Israel of the Prophets which gives birth to the Messiah 'who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron' (Rev 12:5; cf. Ps 2:9). But she is also the Church, the People of the New Covenant, subjected to persecution and yet protected by God. The dragon is 'the ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world' (Rev 12:9). The conflict is an uneven one: the dragon seems to prevail, so great is his arrogance before the defenceless and suffering woman. Yet in reality the triumph belongs to the son born of the woman. In this conflict one thing is certain: the great dragon has already been defeated; 'he was cast down to the earth, and his angels were cast down with him' (Rev 12:9). He was defeated by Christ, God made man, through his death and resurrection, and by the martyrs 'through the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony' (Rev 12:11). And even when the dragon continues his opposition, there is no reason for fear, since his defeat has already taken place. [Read More] 123. This is the certainty which heartens the Church on her pilgrim way; in the story of the woman and the dragon she reads her own history ever anew. The woman who gives birth to her son also brings to mind the Virgin Mary, especially at that moment when, transfixed by suffering at the foot of the Cross, she begets her Son anew as the victor over the prince of this world. She is then entrusted to John who in turn is entrusted to her (cf. Jn 19:26-27), and thus she becomes the Mother of the Church. Thanks to the bond uniting Mary to the Church and the Church to Mary, the mystery of the woman becomes clearer: 'Mary, present in the Church as the Mother of the Redeemer, takes part, as a mother, in that 'monumental struggle against the powers of darkness,' which continues throughout human history. And by her ecclesial identification as the 'woman clothed with the sun' (Rev 12:1), it can be said that 'in the Most Holy Virgin the Church has already reached the perfection whereby she exists without spot or wrinkle' '.192 [Read More]

Boundary Between Original Innocence and Redemption 1) Already the Greek translation of the Old Testament, the Septuagint, which goes back to about the 2nd century B.C., interprets Genesis 3:15 in the Messianic sense, applying the masculine pronoun autos in reference to the Greek neuter noun sperma (semen in the Vulgate). The Judaic tradition continues this interpretation. Christian exegesis, beginning with St. Irenaeus (Adv. Haer. III, 23, 7), sees this text as "proto-gospel," which announces the victory won by Jesus Christ over Satan. In the last few centuries scripture scholars have interpreted this pericope differently, and some of them challenge the Messianic interpretation in recent times. However, there has been a return to it under a rather different aspect. The Yahwist author unites prehistory with the history of Israel, which reaches its peak in the Messianic dynasty of David, which will fulfill the promises of Genesis 3:15 (cf. 2 Sam 7:12). The New Testament illustrated the fulfillment of the promise in the same Messianic perspective: Jesus is the Messiah, descendant of David (cf. Rom 1:3; 2 Tim 2:8), born of woman (cf. Gal 4:4), a new Adam-David (cf. 1 Cor 15), who must reign "until he has put all his enemies under his feet" (1 Cor 15:25). Finally Revelation 12:1-10 presents the final fulfillment of the prophecy of Genesis 3:15. While not being a clear and direct announcement of Jesus as Messiah of Israel, it leads to him, however, through the royal and Messianic tradition that unites the Old and the New Testament. [Read More]

Homily and Other Words of the Holy Father, at Lourdes 2004 The faithful have understood this. That is why they throng to this grotto in order to hear the maternal counsels of the Blessed Virgin. In her they acknowledge "the woman clothed in the sun" (Rev 12:1), the Queen resplendent before the throne of God (cf. Responsorial Psalm), ever interceding on their behalf. [Read More]

48 posted on 12/28/2011 8:00:05 AM PST by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass ,Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: RnMomof7
Pope Benedict, offering white roses in his traditional yearly act of Marian veneration, gave listeners his insight into the connection between the Virgin Mary and the Church – portrayed in the Apocalypse through the single image of the sun-clad woman.

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Marian worship is insidious in so many ways. I think one of the saddest things to see is people who seem to want to know the Lord running to idols that they bow down and pray to. This interpretation of Rev. 12 is just another example of how goddess worship twists the mind.

The answer to the identity of the woman in Rev 12 is answered in Rev. 12.

Rev. 12:6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred sixty days.

The woman is Israel that flees from the Antichrist indwelt by Satan at the mid point of the Tribulation.

49 posted on 12/28/2011 8:03:40 AM PST by wmfights (PERRY 2012)
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To: RobbyS

Indeed it does, Mary also represents Israel, since Jesus’ “Jewishness” comes from His mother. From the Talmud, it has always been a Jewish practice that matrilineal descent was what guaranteed ones’ status as a member of the people of the covenant.

So, it can even be said that the woman in the Revelations scripture is Israel, but the mystery of the incarnation is that the abstracts are made concrete.

The great truth of the incarnation is that what was a foreshadowing, and anagogic sense of God’s interactions with His people is made real in a tangible way.

Jesus is the concrete way. He is the Truth. He is the life.

He says that He is the light of the world.

He is the tangible figure of the intangible and metaphysical.

Mary thus represents Israel in a concrete way, because from before time she was foreshadowed and prepared for in God’s plan to be the mother of God.

Mary is the mother of the tangible presence of God foreshadowed in scripture.

She is the virgin, who could not possibly bear a child since she had no husband. Lk 1:34.

Thus all the biblical figures of women who asked for the grace of God to bear a son, who was their inheritance, is a representation of the struggle of Israel, and the nativity of our lord.

Israel was eagerly awaiting a savior who would restore the fortunes of Jacob. Jer 30:18. And in Mt 1:23 ‘Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel” (which means, God with us).’

Which is from Isaiah 7:14: “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Emmanuel.”

The important fact to remember is that the incarnation is the most complete sign of God’s presence among us.

All of biblical history is caught up into the coming of Jesus, and His passion and death, and His resurrection.


50 posted on 12/28/2011 8:10:27 AM PST by Bayard
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