Skip to comments.Top LDS Events of 2011
Posted on 12/31/2011 9:45:58 PM PST by Colofornian
Less than 60 years after forming "student" wards at BYU, the church decided to eliminate student congregations in June, now forming "young single adult" wards and stakes throughout Utah for single members ages 18-30...
(Excerpt) Read more at deseretnews.com ...
Why? Because marriage rates among Mormons are dropping...Utah's been in the top 17-18 states for unmarried singles now for several years.
Worse -- for Mormons -- is that now for every 3 young single Mormon women, there's only two young single Mormon men...(Young men are dropping out fast!)
For more on these 2011 developments, see:
New study confirms many LDS stereotypes [Lds church bloats stats; men defecting @ high rates]
* Mormon men waiting longer to marry, worrying church officials
Mormon women...want a church-going husband? Odds are...look beyond the Mormon church.
You may even have to leave the Mormon church.
I’m actually a little sad by the ending of Student wards. Student wards at BYU were the most fun, much better than ‘family’ wards when I lived outside student housing. Of course, there was always the meat market feel to them, that was a downside.
Same to all FREEPERS!
✫✫✫¸.°**°.✫✫✫✫¸.°**.✫✫✫ ◕▄███▄◕──◕▄██▄◕──◕▄███◕──◕▄███▄◕ ◕▀──██◕─◕██──██◕───◕██◕──◕▀──██◕ ◕──██◕──◕██──██◕───◕██◕──◕──██◕ ◕─██◕───◕██──██◕───◕██◕──◕─██◕ ◕█████◕──◕▀██▀◕───◕▄██▄◕─◕█████◕ ❀♥❁*¨✿❀❁*¨`*.✿❀❁*¨`*.`✿♥❀♥❁♥❀
Where does “Engineering the recall of AZ Senate President Russell Pearce”, and “Pushing for amnesty for illegal aliens against Mormon precepts” rank on the list? I personally know a dozen Mormons who are seething over the “Utah Compact” and other LDS moves to pimp amnesty, but cannot speak out about it. Disgraceful.
Happy New Year to all the Flying Inmans!
I guess Mormons can’t go indy when their leaders go looey, huh.
They might be happier in a conservative independent Christian church.
Please enlighten us non-Mormon exposure types.
Wards? Some organizing unit from the context. Are they voluntary, like picking a specific church, or preset, like parishes?
My experience with mormonISM, is that nothing is voluntary.
The leaders tell you where you can go or not go.
Better LDS than LSD, that’s what I say.
What year did Mormons allow Blacks full rights? How ‘bout half-Blacks? Any allowance for the White part?
Pretty much the case. As has been said in the Church, “when the Prophet speaks, the thinking has been done”.
There's a very obvious, tried-and-true solution to this disparity in the number of men and women of marriagable age.
It was On June 9, 1978.
The LDS believe that blacks are inferior, and not worthy of the blessings of Gospel.
Mitt Romney is a high ranking Mormon, as was his father.
So Romney was a Mormon before they "changed their minds" about blacks and as he was brought up in a Mormon family, he was brought up in a racist environment.
Whether you list that as "Top LDS Theologians Have No Idea What LDS Theology Is Being Taught" or "Apostle Dallin Oaks Co-Award Winners For Protecting The Church By Lying For The Lord Because It's Not A Sin; You Would Lie To Keep Your Family From Being Killed Like In This Little Homily Of Mine That's Always Quoted So It's Okay, Trust Me."
He wasn't just a Mormon. He served as a Bishop. He taught that blacks were cowards in the pre-existence in the battle and were punished by God. As an LDS Bishop "Holy Father" moved him, or spoke to him, so that he could tell others of their calling to teach the same. The doctrinal statements, statements by Joseph Smith, Brigham Youth, and other LDS Prophets and Apostles (members of the Quorum of the Twelve) are too numerous to cite here. And the statements aren't all old. They continued right up until 1978.
"THE NEGROES ARE NOT EQUAL WITH OTHER RACES where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, ...but this inequality is not of man's origin. IT IS THE LORD'S DOING, is based on his eternal laws of justice, and grows out of the LACK OF SPIRITUAL VALIANCE OF THOSE CONCERNED IN THEIR FIRST ESTATE [the Mormon pre-existence]."
Mormon Doctrine, p. 527 - 528, 1966 edition, emphasis added. Other quotes here.
Members of other churches were certainly racists. The Southern Baptist Church has issued an official apology for racism, although it wasn't formerly institutional. Mitt Romney and the LDS Church can't. They can't, because the argument is that God is the one who said blacks were inferior, not the LDS. Don't blame it on them. It was Heavenly Father. They didn't get it wrong. It was Heavenly Father/God's position from the pre-life all the way up until 1978. They are only telling you what Heavenly Father says.
So Mitt was only doing God's work to be a racist when he was an adult, and to teach others to be a racist. He can't apologize for it now, because that would be saying that God was wrong.
To me, perhaps the most poignant thing of all of this are these three sects of the Mormon church:
Independent Latter Day Saints of Nigeria
Independent Latter Day Saints of Ghana
Apostolic Divine Church of Ghana
They are now thought to be defunct. Before 1978 LDS missionaries went to Africa and shared with African blacks the Book of Mormon, Another Gospel of Jesus Christ. In the milk before meat tradition, they baptized them. Then, sometime after that, the black converts were told something along the lines of:
"Oh, and by the way? You can never be exalted and enter the Celestial Kingdom, which is the only one of the three heavenly kingoms where God dwells, and the only one where you become a god, with your own planet, and where you have eternal physical sex with your celestial wives, populating your own planet(s) with bodies filled with spirit babies, and their own christ. And where your children can eventually become gods themselves. Why? It's not up to me. That's what Heavenly Father says. It's because of the color of your skin, of course. You're black. God marked you as punishment for being fence-sitters in the pre-life, you blacks were. You're not white and delightsome."
So these African blacks, baptized LDS, started their own Mormon sects in which they could be exalted and enter the Celestial Kingdom and become gods. That's a footnote you don't see in these stories about LDS racism until 1978.
I'm aware of all that information except the Africa stuff, re my statement that Romney was a high ranking Mormon.
Good to see it spelled out on this thread.
“Heavenly Father,” a man that became “god” of this planet is a racist.
Fits Romney's political style perfectly to be a member of a non-Christian belief system that changes with the wind, but really doesn't mean it.
Wow, thanks guys.
Thanks. It’s way worse than I thought.
In established areas a ward will have somewhere around 250-300 people attending the service. Outside of Utah, California, and Idaho a ward may be closer to about 200 attending.
A group of wards are organized into a "Stake." Typically around 10-12 wards, but I have seen as little as 7 and as many as 20. Many stakes are organized into "areas." The next organization above areas is the church as a whole. In even less populated areas you can have branches (tiny wards, sometimes as few as one family) and missions (sort of an "area").
While you are not required to attend the ward you live in, there is a downside to not doing so. The LDS church has no paid ministry at the local level (and at the top levels only an "allowance/travel stipend" payment to cover costs). The ward is lead by a bishop who is "called" to serve as such by stake leadership. And nearly every attending adult has a "calling" that helps staff the ward. Everything from Sunday school teacher to organist to scoutmaster is filled by attending members. You don't campaign for assignments in the ward. The situation is that you can only have a calling in the ward you are assigned. If you attend a ward that you do not live in, you cannot be given a calling. Some may consider this a good thing.
There are special cases where the boundaries overlap. A stake might have a "spanish ward" or "deaf branch" that draws people from the entire stake (or other similar language or condition group). In Utah there are branches set up at nursing homes. I know of cases where two stakes share a spanish ward.
Another special unit is the "singles" ward or branch. In the LDS church those between 18-30 and unmarried have a special program called "young single adults" that involves special activities and such. And in some areas they set up a ward for these folks. For a long time these wards were open to anyone living anywhere, so the more dynamic wards grew, and in a compounding way as the "dull" wards died because everyone was going everywhere else.
In colleges with high LDS populations (like BYU) they used to set up student wards, which were much like a singles ward. And it appears that the church has changed the way they organize these wards. Not being in Utah, I do not know the details on all the differences. Since they still end up having to divvy up the population into manageable congregations, it really doesn't matter if they call it a student ward or a singles ward. You are still going to end up breaking the on-campus dorms (which tend to be unmarried folks) into groups of 300 or so students.
Hope this helps. Let me know if more detail is desired.
Wards are congregations. You are assigned a ward based upon your address (ward boundaries). You cannot attend another ward for any real length of time without a very good reason and permission from your Bishop. In some ways they are more restrictive than parishes even.
BYU students who live at home had the choice of attending a student (or singles) ward or a “family ward” (the same ones with their parents.
Singles living on their own could attend (with permission) a singles ward or a ‘family ward’ but if they were young enough (mid 20’s) were encouraged to attend a singles ward to find a mate.
Married couples and older singles (over the age of 30 or 35) attended ‘family wards’. Again, you had to decide and get permission if you were to attend outside your ‘ward boundaries’.
I attended a Student ward when I was in BYU housing. When I moved to BYU approved housing (with a friend’s aunt - who had to go through a whole approval process) I attended the family ward with her. Her niece, my roommate, attended a singles ward down a block. But we all had to get approval to do so.
My favorite line in Star Trek IV is when Kirk, trying to explain Spock says “Never mind him, he did a little too much LDS in the 60’s”.
I used that for several years but changed the dates. I did a little to much LDS in the 80’s.
Same year. Up until 1978 no one from black descent was allowed the LDS priesthood, which meant they were denied all the ‘saving ordinances’ (LDS phrase) of the LDS Temples.
Back during Young’s days the restriction was on a ‘single drop of Negro blood’ (I can get you the quote if you want it).
By the 1960’s, a lot of people didn’t know. Half black, no. Quarter blaick, probably not if anyone new about it. 1/32 black? Most likely it wouldn’t have been an issue just because it would be ‘under the radar’.
If you want links or more info, just let me know.
Another thing regarding the LDS and the ‘black problem’, is that if you pay attention you will notice the LDS defense is “all churches were racist - you don’t complain about them!”
But the LDS can’t slide on that. There were other racist views in other churches, but because we all (even the Catholics) believe in the ability of the Church to reform (change) we recognize that what the views were were not in line with God.
However, don’t let the LDS pull this fast one on you. The LDS believe that they are NOT reformed. They are the ONE RESTORED Church of Jesus Christ. They believe that Christ set up Mormonism while here on earth and evil ‘pagans’ like Constantine squashed them for political gain thus giving rise to the Catholic church.
As the “One true church” their founding (according to them) is given directly by God. Smith (and the other prophets) speak directly to God. So, racism in Mormonism like denying Blacks the priesthood (and thus true salvation) is either a doctrine of God (which makes God a racist) or it proves the LDS founder and prophets were false prophets and thus Mormonism is not in any way true.
The other ‘out’ they will try is “God changed his mind”. So, in essence they are saying that God, all knowing, all seeing, decided to just ‘change his mind’ on the requirements to get back into his presence because of a lawsuit by the NAACP?? Like polygamy, the blacks and priesthood issue puts them in a quandry - either their church is false or God bows to the temperament and laws of the US Government.
If they weren’t claiming ‘restored’ status, they could say the teachigs were of man and not God, but they do not, by their very claims, allow themselves that luxury.
I'm fascinated in LDS/American history, and not particularly from a theological view. Mormonism is the distinctly American contribution to the religious spectrum. It was started, whether conveniently or not, during the time of printing presses, by men who liked to talk and write, surrounded by people who liked to write and to record the spoken word. And there is a lot of dramatic American history involved - the Missouri Wars and the Utah War (name another American religion involved historical incidental actually called capital "w" Wars, on the American soil, one involving the religion against the U.S. Army).
We're reaching an interesting point in LDS history, and not just because the original documents and the official www.lds.org site are available on the internet (that doesn't alway help - the LDS church puts it's youth educational material and the history it teaches its youth behind a portal that requires an authorized LDS password to view).
The Readers' Digest Version, because it didn't start with him, is that a LDS Apostle, Boyd K. Packer, delivered a speech entitled "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than The Intellect," promoting (ordering) LDS Historians to write and teach "faithful" or "faith-promoting" history; that is, print only those parts of church history that show the church and its leaders in a good light and interpret all history to show the church is true and actions by the church and its leaders were right and justified. You can Google it.
This was later enforced with excommunication/dis-enfellowshipment of the September Six, and LDS members who write unfavorable history are still excommunicated as apostates and on other grounds, without regard to whether the history is true.
There's a counter-battle between journals such as Sunstone, and Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, which don't stick to being faith-promoting, and the Maxwell Institute and FARMS at BYU, which are still touting archaeological evidence that a battle killing millions of people with steel weapons and armor - before steel existed - and with horses (before they were brought to the Americas) - and elephants and curlemons (I know, what's a curlemon?) - occurred around New York (or wherever The Hill Cumorrah keeps getting moved to).
Although LDS Ph.D authors like Michael Quinn were previously excommunicated for writing about polygamy after the 1890 Manifeso, or the impact of the practice of occult in the 1820s/1830s on the Book of Mormon (including 400 pages of footnotes, including receipts of books purchased by Joseph Smith's family) - we are getting books from LDS historians like Rough Stone Rolling (a Joseph Smith biography) and In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith (the stories of some, if not all, of Joseph Smith's plural wives, based on their journals and letters, and those of their friends and families, and other intense research).
One issue is that the primary audience for those books are historians, some LDS historians, and non-LDS. LDS aren't going to read them. When Professor Todd Compton's Book (In Sacred Loneliness) receives a bad review in FARMS, FARMS will not publish his response and he has to use the internet to do so himself.
And so much of this is being written that the LDS church is not in position any longer to excommunicate all of these LDS writers. Yet the histories - heavily footnoted, from sources in LDS archives - are not being read by LDS members. They're being read by ex-Mormons, historians, and people like me.
And if we repeat what Ph.Ds in history, teaching Mormon history, using documents from Mormon archives, are writing - we're called Anti-Mormon. And what we say is a 'lie," because the church isn't teaching this information. And 'faith-promoting' historians aren't publishing it, nor is the LDS church.
But it's out there. And more is getting out there all the time.
But don't believe what I say; research it for yourself if you are interested.
Thanks reaganaut, good info.
Here is a link to some online sources that will give you more than you ever wanted to know about racism in the Mormon church...
VERY EXCELLENT POINTS!!!
Get down and pray. You'll find an answer that doesn't need financing.
Money for who? The Morg? No one gets rich in ministry to the LDS and most I know keep their day jobs.
Praying if something is ‘true’ isn’t Biblical at all and “Moroni’s promise” is a straw man. If you don’t get the answer the Book of Mormon is ‘true’ then you either, aren’t sincere, don’t have faith in Christ, or real intent. It comes back to YOU are the one at fault.
And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. [Moroni 10:4]
So, where's the angle for more money here mime? I haven't seen a single request for any money, not only on this thread but others.
Get down and pray. You'll find an answer that doesn't need financing.
Unless you want a TR, then it will cost you at least 10% of your income.
Amazing. Simultaneously impressive and horrifying to me at a personal level. Thanks for the information on wards, stakes and so on. Very enlightening.
This is another reason LDS does not play well in the South. Doctrinal issues aside, this level of conformity and outside, coercive organization would -not- play to a very wide audience. Generally, we much prefer an easygoing chaos.
Not hard go to #30
There is nothing on that link that asks for money, nor on the post. You need to stop trying to mind read bm.
Post # 37 was copied directly from the wedsite linked in # 30.
Key word search say “not found”
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Your point is invalid BM
Sorry I do not find this on the site linked in post# 30.
Sorry I do not find this on the site linked in post# 30.
Sorry I do not find this on the site linked in post# 30.
THis is to funny. To much fun for today.
And they don’t get rich either, BM. Have you ever met the Tanners? You would love Sandra, she is the funniest sweetest and one of the smartest people you would ever hope to meet.
One of my landlords in Utah lived in GA for a few years (her husband moved back to take care of his mom). She had to drive 70 miles to go to her ‘branch’ (small ward as Tadpole said). There were about 70-80 people (according to her) and a few drove further than her every week. She hated it. She preferred Utah where all of her neighbors were in her ward (there were 2 non LDS families in our ward boundaries - one Evangelical that no one talked to and one Catholic that everyone tried to convert) and her ward house was within walking distance.