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Pope: Other Christian Denominations Not True Churches
Fox News ^ | July 10, 2007 | associated press

Posted on 01/02/2012 3:13:39 PM PST by RnMomof7

LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy — For the second time in a week, Pope Benedict XVI has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, reasserting the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church and saying other Christian communities were either defective or not true churches.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Ecumenism; General Discusssion; Ministry/Outreach; Theology
KEYWORDS: calvinismisdead; catholics; christianity; faithandphilosophy; hell; hypocrites; inquisition; italy; lds; oldarticle; pope; protestants; ricksantorum; romancatholicism; rome; santorum; santorum2012; thisisnotnew
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To: RnMomof7
You forgot this sentence fragment:

While there was nothing doctrinally new in the document,

LOL!

51 posted on 01/02/2012 3:59:32 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: bibletruth

bttt

The most powerful man in the RCC denomination reduced to fodder by one of the most published and common anthologies of all time.


52 posted on 01/02/2012 3:59:56 PM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: BlueMoose

Ummmm. Can I believe what my wife who was born and raised Catholic, went to Catholic schools and still attends mass weekly, says?

Me: “Do Catholics worship Mary?”

Wife: “Is this some kind of trick question?

Me: “No, some Catholics on FreeRepublic are saying Catholics don’t venerate Mary.”

Wife: “Then they aren’t really Catholics.”

Hank


53 posted on 01/02/2012 4:00:45 PM PST by County Agent Hank Kimball (Screw it. Newt's the smartest candidate and the guy I want to see debating Obummer. Flame away. Num)
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To: Salvation
Catholics do not worship Mary. They only worship God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Please don’t believe the nosense drivel that someone has told you.

Excuse me? YHVH says that prayer such as that of the Catholic sinners prayer holy Mary, mother of god is idol worship and in it there is nothing but foolishness. FYI...the Catholic Mary is NOT the mother of YHVH, Elohiym. She may be the mother of some god, but it is NOT the One True God of all creation. To imply this is to imply she existed before YHVH Elohiym. Fact, the Catholic church changed ALL of YHVH's instructions for assembly and replaced them with their own. They admit it, they are proud of it. Catholic the one true ecclesia of YHVH? That is just put right no true.

54 posted on 01/02/2012 4:00:45 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: RnMomof7
Sorry guys.the pope says we are out... so much for “cant we all get along” huh?

Oh shucks......

55 posted on 01/02/2012 4:01:32 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: RnMomof7

“FIFTH QUESTION

Why do the texts of the Council and those of the Magisterium since the Council not use the title of “Church” with regard to those Christian Communities born out of the Reformation of the sixteenth century?

RESPONSE

According to Catholic doctrine, these Communities do not enjoy apostolic succession in the sacrament of Orders, and are, therefore, deprived of a constitutive element of the Church. These ecclesial Communities which, specifically because of the absence of the sacramental priesthood, have not preserved the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic Mystery[19] cannot, according to Catholic doctrine, be called “Churches” in the proper sense[20].”

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html

“the absence of the sacramental priesthood”

Priests bringing man to God via sacraments, versus:

But this man, after offering one sacrifice for sins for ever, took his seat at God’s right hand, from that time offering no more sacrifice, but waiting until “his enemies be made his footstool”. For by virtue of that one offering he has perfected for all time every one whom he makes holy. The Holy Spirit himself endorses this truth for us, when he says, first: ‘This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them’.

17 And then, he adds, ‘Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more’.

18 Where God grants remission of sin there can be no question of making further atonement.”

Or as put in Matthew:

“But Jesus gave one more great cry, and died. And the sanctuary curtain in the Temple was torn in two from top to bottom.”


56 posted on 01/02/2012 4:02:21 PM PST by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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To: RnMomof7
Catholicism is catholicism for whatever worth one may make of it.
57 posted on 01/02/2012 4:03:23 PM PST by Tigen (I shall raise you one .)
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To: dangus
"Benedict, who attended Vatican II as a young theologian, has long complained about what he considers the erroneous interpretation of the council by liberals, saying it was not a break from the past but rather a renewal of church tradition."
58 posted on 01/02/2012 4:05:19 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Crichton

“News at 11 - denominations without apostolic succession lack apostolic succession.”

News at 11:30 - turns out the Bible has no instructions for Apostolic succession - except casting lots. Inside investigation reveals no church on earth uses the Biblical example!


59 posted on 01/02/2012 4:05:19 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (You know, 99.99999965% of the lawyers give all of them a bad name)
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To: County Agent Hank Kimball
Worship and venerate are two different words. Which one do you want to discuss?

=============================================

wor·shiped or wor·shipped, wor·ship·ing or wor·ship·ping, wor·ships v.tr.
1. To honor and love as a deity.

ven·er·ate/ˈvenəˌrāt/
Verb:
1. Regard with great respect; revere.

=====================================

Your wife is correct. Catholics who say they do not VENERATE the Virgin Mary are not truly Catholic. However, no Catholic on FR is saying they don't venerate Mary. Catholics are saying we do not WORSHIP Mary.

60 posted on 01/02/2012 4:06:13 PM PST by BillyBoy (Illegals for Perry/Gingrich 2012 : Don't be "heartless"/ Be "humane")
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To: Revolting cat!

“Such a tragedy. I sure wish I could have seen it.”
~ Oscar Wilde on Great Mormon-Catholic War


61 posted on 01/02/2012 4:07:06 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: RnMomof7

Check this out:

http://buzzardhut.net/index/htm/Babylon/Babylon.htm


62 posted on 01/02/2012 4:07:19 PM PST by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: Mad Dawg
"The Rev. Sara MacVane, of the Anglican Centre in Rome, said there was nothing new in the document."
63 posted on 01/02/2012 4:08:08 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: bigheadfred

LOL. Right along with Hitler, Ann Frank, Che, Buddy Holly, and Elvis.


64 posted on 01/02/2012 4:08:54 PM PST by reaganaut (Romney IS Obama - just 'white and delightsome' 2 Nephi 30:6)
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To: RnMomof7

I guess I will have to go buy an indulgence.


65 posted on 01/02/2012 4:08:54 PM PST by soupbone1
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To: FromTheSidelines
>> So that’s great for Peter - how does that stretch to a man voted into office by 137 other men? <<

Because Christ's church continues to the present day and passes to Peter's successors. If Jesus had intended the church to be dismantled after Peter died, he would have said so.

66 posted on 01/02/2012 4:09:49 PM PST by BillyBoy (Illegals for Perry/Gingrich 2012 : Don't be "heartless"/ Be "humane")
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To: starlifter; Salvation; Nervous Tick
>>What is Mary worship?<<

Let’s take the prayer of Prayer of Pope Pius XII. [http://catholicism.about.com/od/tothevirginmary/qt/Honor_Immacula.htm]

I’ll use just the bolded excerpts from the prayer.

we cast ourselves into your arms

1 Peter 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. (When did we need to replace God with Mary?)

confident of finding in your most loving heart appeasement of our ardent desires, and a safe harbor from the tempests which beset us on every side.

Hebrews 4:15-16 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (once again Catholics replacing Christ with Mary)

O crystal fountain of faith

Romans 12:3 according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. or "a measure of faith." (but Mary is the “fountain of faith” for Catholics)

Lily of all holiness

1 Samuel 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God. (for Catholics however, “all holiness” is given to Mary)

Conqueress of evil and death

Hosea 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes. (but Catholics claim it was Mary who conquered death)

Convert the wicked

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; (Catholics have even replaced the Holy Spirit with Mary)

Statement by catholic Bishop Liqouri “.......We often more quickly obtain what we ask by calling on the name of Mary than by invoking that of Jesus.....” She...is our Salvation, our Life, our Hope, our Counsel, our Refuge, our Help

Need I go on? Catholics have replaced virtually every attribute and working of God and given that to Mary in their worship.

67 posted on 01/02/2012 4:09:49 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: bibletruth; Nervous Tick

Confirmed...


68 posted on 01/02/2012 4:10:09 PM PST by DennisR (Look around - God gives countless, indisputable clues that He does, indeed, exist.)
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To: County Agent Hank Kimball
Sly slight of hand...changing worship to venerate.

Under the common definition of venerate, Catholics in fact do that: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/venerate

Catholics venerate Mary, but they do not worship her.

69 posted on 01/02/2012 4:10:09 PM PST by starlifter (Pullum sapit)
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To: reaganaut; Revolting cat!
Linketh
70 posted on 01/02/2012 4:11:49 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: Salvation

“If I were to get really obnoxious I would ask you to provide proof of your minister’s absolute succession by ordination to Christ himself.”

Go ahead and get obnoxious. What does scripture say?

7-8 Naturally there are different gifts and functions; individually grace is given to us in different ways out of the rich diversity of Christ’s giving. As the scripture says: ‘When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men’...

11-13 His “gifts to men” were varied. Some he made his messengers, some prophets, some preachers of the Gospel; to some he gave the power to guide and teach his people. His gifts were made that Christians might be properly equipped for their service...” - Ephesians

” 3-8 As your spiritual teacher I give this piece of advice to each one of you. Don’t cherish exaggerated ideas of yourself or your importance, but try to have a sane estimate of your capabilities by the light of the faith that God has given to you all. For just as you have many members in one physical body and those members differ in their functions, so we, though many in number, compose one body in Christ and are all members of one another. Through the grace of God we have different gifts. If our gift is preaching, let us preach to the limit of our vision. If it is serving others let us concentrate on our service; if it is teaching let us give all we have to our teaching; and if our gift be the stimulating of the faith of others let us set ourselves to it. Let the man who is called to give, give freely; let the man who wields authority think of his responsibility; and let the man who feels sympathy for his fellows act cheerfully.” - Romans

It is GOD who gives the gift of preaching, or makes a man an Apostle (a la Paul).


71 posted on 01/02/2012 4:12:49 PM PST by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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To: RnMomof7

Good. Pope is right


72 posted on 01/02/2012 4:13:41 PM PST by AdamBomb
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To: County Agent Hank Kimball

oops


73 posted on 01/02/2012 4:13:48 PM PST by reaganaut (Romney IS Obama - just 'white and delightsome' 2 Nephi 30:6)
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To: dangus; RnMomof7; Salvation

Exactly, this is nothing new.

I don’t know why RN7 is posting this article as if it was written today when it from an article in 2007.

Whenever I post a thread here I put the date of the article


74 posted on 01/02/2012 4:14:01 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: rsobin

Oh, you would bring that up. Ha!


75 posted on 01/02/2012 4:14:11 PM PST by DennisR (Look around - God gives countless, indisputable clues that He does, indeed, exist.)
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To: mas cerveza por favor

That’s ok. I don’t need some guy living in utter luxury in palaces, wearing fine clothes, eating fine food, only spending his time with the finest of people to tell me whether or not I’m right with God.


76 posted on 01/02/2012 4:14:17 PM PST by Dogbert41
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To: rsobin
Didn’t the the “the leader of catholicism” ...,jail people for suggesting the earth is not the center of the universe...?"

This one I know. The answer is "No."

Galileo was honored more than once by the Vatican. he was free to explore a heliocentric hypothesis.

However, a logical consequence of the heliocentric hypothesis is parallax. That is the position of a planet, for example, compared to the position of the "fixed stars" behind it, should be different, all other things being equal, in June from what it would be in December.

And this consequence has been verified, after the development of instruments subtle enough to measure it.

BUT in the time of Galileo there was no measurable difference. So Galileo was told he could not say his theory was definitely true. He was welcome to explore it and to publish his explorations. He just couldn't say it was true because there was no proof.

he not only was allowed to 'suggest' that the earth was not the center of the universe, he received public Vatican honors for the suggestion.

77 posted on 01/02/2012 4:14:33 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: CynicalBear; Salvation; Nervous Tick
Sweetheart, you are not as smart as you think you are, taking a prayer out of context, applying random Bible quotes, then using your fecund imagination to contrive a preordained conclusion.
78 posted on 01/02/2012 4:15:19 PM PST by starlifter (Pullum sapit)
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To: Mad Dawg

ooops.


79 posted on 01/02/2012 4:15:35 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: RnMomof7; verga; thesaleboat; Sick of Lefties; Chainmail; StrongandPround; lilyramone; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.


80 posted on 01/02/2012 4:15:35 PM PST by narses
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To: Cvengr
>> Same authority has been given to every believer in Christ. <<

Then why do all these protestant churches elect leaders to be spokesman for their church? Where in the Bible does it say that there's a "Office of the President of the Southern Baptist Convention". Did Jesus give Bryant Wright that authority? Seems pretty "unbiblical" to me. If they believe in the "same authority of all believers", then all 16.7 million members of the SBC ought to be voting on what their denomination says, not this guy.

http://www.sbc.net/PresidentsPage/BryantWright/bio.asp

81 posted on 01/02/2012 4:18:07 PM PST by BillyBoy (Illegals for Perry/Gingrich 2012 : Don't be "heartless"/ Be "humane")
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To: Salvation

Not sure I understand the argument. Essentially EVERYTHING Jesus said was to the Jews and not to us. So are you saying none of it applies to us? If so, which parts of the New Testament apply to all of us and which parts apply to only some of us?


82 posted on 01/02/2012 4:18:15 PM PST by DennisR (Look around - God gives countless, indisputable clues that He does, indeed, exist.)
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To: mas cerveza por favor
Are you disputing the New Testament?

No, I am correctly interpreting the 1st century writings. When they speak f Scripture, the only Scripture they had was Moses (Torah) and the Prophets. So to claim that there is any new doctrine when the 1st century writings do not expound on it as in put it in writing as had been done in the beginning is pure blasphemy. In the beginning YHVH told us that what was given was for ever, that He never changes, that His doctrine has never changed and that neither is it burdensome. So if church doctrine says that YHVH changed His mind, changed His doctrine yet YHVH never had it written down for everyone to see and read, that doctrine is nothing but heresy and is to be rebuked

John 7:16 Jesus answered them and said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.17 If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority. 18 He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him."

Main stream Christian doctrine claims Messiah brought a new doctrine. Messiah says otherwise. I'll take his word over man any day since he was the "WORD" of God that has been from the beginning.

83 posted on 01/02/2012 4:18:45 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: dragonblustar
I didn't know the Koran came in a ring binder.

(Hint: look at the picture.)

84 posted on 01/02/2012 4:18:58 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: RnMomof7
For the second time in a week, Pope Benedict XVI has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, reasserting the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church and saying other Christian communities were either defective or not true churches.

The feeling is mutual.

So I should care about the pope's opinion for what reason again?

85 posted on 01/02/2012 4:19:19 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: bigheadfred

LOL! gotta love that mormon tank!


86 posted on 01/02/2012 4:19:33 PM PST by mitch5501 (My guitar wants to kill your momma!)
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To: RnMomof7; All
Sorry guys.the pope says we are out... so much for “cant we all get along” huh?

You heard it here first, folks, that RnMomof7 really wants Protestants & Catholics to get along. She was working so hard at it. If only Pope Benedict XVI hadn't reiterated something he had already mentioned years ago.

May the Lord have mercy on us all.

87 posted on 01/02/2012 4:20:23 PM PST by FamiliarFace
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To: Dogbert41

Me neither. But that doesn’t describe the real Pope, in the real universe, in the present time.


88 posted on 01/02/2012 4:20:41 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: reaganaut
Image and video hosting by TinyPic
89 posted on 01/02/2012 4:20:44 PM PST by ansel12
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To: BereanBrain

AMEN - Christianity: Follower of Christ, not men - AMEN


90 posted on 01/02/2012 4:21:03 PM PST by bibletruth
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To: CynicalBear
LOL Was that before or after he joined with Islamists, Buddhists, and other pagans for prayer?

Are you saying those are not false religions?

91 posted on 01/02/2012 4:21:10 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: dragonblustar

I’m not seeing what the passage Matthew 16:18-19 has to do with a photo of John Paul II kissing a Quran. Makes as much sense as someone quoting the 10 commandments and me posting a photo of Jimmy Swaggart crying in response.


92 posted on 01/02/2012 4:22:38 PM PST by BillyBoy (Illegals for Perry/Gingrich 2012 : Don't be "heartless"/ Be "humane")
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To: ansel12

Thank you. I saved it so I don’t have bother you again.


93 posted on 01/02/2012 4:22:38 PM PST by reaganaut (Romney IS Obama - just 'white and delightsome' 2 Nephi 30:6)
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To: Salvation; RnMomof7
Source for these comments, please.

Read the thread.

RnMom posted it there.

94 posted on 01/02/2012 4:22:42 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Dr. Thorne
Praying to Mary imputes omniscience to her.

Could you develop that assertion? I don't see the connection.

95 posted on 01/02/2012 4:22:52 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: BillyBoy; Nervous Tick
>>Try Matthew 16:18-19<<

Nope, that one doesn’t do it. Not by a long shot.

If you want reference to God as the Rock here are some verses.

Deut. 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

2 Sam. 22:2 And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; 3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.

Psalm 18:31, "And who is a rock, except our God."

Isaiah 44:8, "Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none."

Rom. 9:33, "Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, and he who believes in Him will not be disappointed."

1 Cor. 3:11, "For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ,"

1 Cor. 10:4, "and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock (petras) which followed them; and the rock (petra) was Christ."

96 posted on 01/02/2012 4:23:12 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Mad Dawg
didn't know the Koran came in a ring binder. (Hint: look at the picture.)

I did. You must be seeing things.

97 posted on 01/02/2012 4:24:45 PM PST by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: BillyBoy
I’m not seeing what the passage Matthew 16:18-19 has to do with a photo of John Paul II kissing a Quran. Makes as much sense as someone quoting the 10 commandments and me posting a photo of Jimmy Swaggart crying in response.

So Peter's line flows right up to the Paul, the koran kisser?

98 posted on 01/02/2012 4:27:20 PM PST by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: Nervous Tick

How dare you slander someone you don’t know and obviously don’t have the brains to understand? I will pray for the souls of all of the heretic followers of the perderast failed monk who spawned all of your self (not “bible”) centered worship groups who all seek to carry the mantle of the church entrusted to Peter like little kids who look up to the big teenager on the block.

Go home and read your bible as the Holy Father’s words obviously are too subtle for you.


99 posted on 01/02/2012 4:27:38 PM PST by LurkLongley (Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam-For the Greater Glory of God)
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To: patlin

My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen

Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.

Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.

Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.

Amen.

She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.

(Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther’s Works, Pelikan et al, vol. 21, 326)


100 posted on 01/02/2012 4:28:04 PM PST by narses
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