Posted on 01/03/2012 3:30:48 PM PST by Gamecock
Not many people get the opportunity to attend seminary. In an amazing way I have attended two. The first was training for the Roman Catholic priesthood in Ireland and the second at a conservative Evangelical seminary in England.
Raised a Catholic . . . but not knowing God Like most boys in the Republic of Ireland in the 1980s, I was brought up a Roman Catholic. My parents taught me to live a good life, say my prayers, and attend mass every Sunday. I believed there was a God, but I didn't know him personally. I prayed as my mother taught me, but I never knew whether or not God was really listening. I attended confession monthly and did many penances. Conscious of my sinfulness, I hoped that God would accept me into heaven if I did enough good works. I tried to live the best life I could. It was like balancing the accounts, hoping that my credits (good works) would cancel my debits (sins). Zealous to please God, I was just eleven years old when I decided to become a Roman Catholic priest. I told the local priest, but he said I would have to wait until I was eighteen before I could enter the seminary.
During my teenage years I got involved in much sinful behaviour. I rebelled against God and disobeyed his commandments. I loved my sin, but I hated that miserable life and started to cry out to God. I realise now that God was working in my heart. He showed me I was a sinner. I longed to be right with him. This became the focus of my life. I knew that I needed to be saved from my sins. I went on a pilgrimage to a famous Roman Catholic shrine. I ate oatcakes, drank black tea, and crawled on my knees around the Stations of the Cross over three days to do penance for my sins. I fasted and meditated but never knew pardon for sin. I wanted to know forgiveness, but how?
Training for the priesthood
At the age of nineteen, and after checking different possible organisations, I finally decided to join the Society of Missions to Africa (SMA). They are a society of priests who live together in small communities in different parts of the world, seeking to convert pagans to the Roman religion. I entered the Roman Catholic Seminary located in Maynooth, County Kildare, Ireland. During my two years at seminary, I learned about religion and philosophy but there were no biblical studies. I attended daily mass and monthly confession but, alas, there was no teaching on forgiveness for sin. We had set times of prayer as a community - morning, evening, and night. I heard many talks that were focused on pleasing God by doing charitable works and buying favour with God through the church. I also heard a lot about how to use psychology to counsel people spiritually. Not once did I hear how to be reconciled to God through Christ who alone could forgive my sins.
I began to read the Bible (a Protestant translation my parents had given to me). As I read it, I asked the priests serious questions about the religious rituals in the Roman Catholic faith, but they couldn't show me any scriptural basis whatsoever for so much of their superstition and their many traditions. I discovered that the Bible does not promote the veneration of Mary as practiced in the Roman Catholic Church. The official teaching of the Roman Church is that Mary does not necessarily answer prayers but rather intercedes on the Catholic's behalf and prays for them. However, the Bible teaches that she is a sinner: in the famous 'Magnificat' she is found praying to God her Saviour. Mary knew she had sinned and we find her rejoicing in God her Saviour, the one conceived in her womb by the Holy Spirit - Jesus Christ her Lord.
I realised that rosaries and prayers to the saints have no scriptural basis. Mary is addressed in Roman Catholic prayers (eg 'O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee'), but the Saviour teaches us to pray to the Father directly. Indeed, the Bible warns us against ritualistic prayer. This described me exactly: outwardly very holy and pious, but inwardly my heart was sinful and corrupt. Also, the Roman Church teaches its followers to pray to the saints. There is a saint for almost every circumstance, such as St Christopher for travel, St Anthony for lost property, St Martin de Porres for healing, St Joseph for the dying, St Vincent de Paul for the poor, and St Jude for lost causes. Unable to find anything in Scripture to support these things, I asked the priests many questions, and I was told that these Church traditions could not be questioned.
I was conscious of my sin and longed to have assurance of salvation. I asked the priests but I was told that we could never be sure of salvation until we died. I was instructed to attend the priest for confession, but I did not find that in Scripture either. The Bible instructs us to confess our sins to God, not to human priests. I also realised that as a priest I would have to hear people's confessions and absolve them. I was confused. How could I forgive other people's sins, when I did not even know forgiveness myself? I now realise that the Lord was lifting the veil from my eyes to show me that true faith and forgiveness for sin is to be found in Christ alone.
Eventually, I left the Roman seminary in 1995. The Society had decided that I was not suitable, but the Lord, through his Word, had shown me the errors of Rome and that I shouldn't continue training for the priesthood. I had entered the seminary thinking that I would find God's answer to my sins. When I left, I thought that I had finished with God - but he hadn't finished with me! Over the next two years I lived in Dublin and continued my search for God. I went to various Protestant churches and also met people from different cults. One cult told me that if I was to be baptized again, then I would be born again. This sounded too much like the Roman Church and its teaching of justification by works, so I had nothing more to do with them.
Going to England
I went to London in preparation for nursing studies. On the first night I met a man who told me how I could know forgiveness for sin. He gave me a leaflet that emphasized the need to trust in Jesus Christ alone. I read this leaflet many times, but still had no peace with God. Although well physically, I became very depressed spiritually.
I knew that I was condemned if I was not converted. The Bible told me that if I did not believe then the wrath of God abode upon me. Then I read 'There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit' (Rom. 8:1). This was a constant challenge to me. I was alone in a huge city with no one to turn to for spiritual help. How my heart yearned to be right with God.
While pursuing my nursing studies, I met some students who seemed to know God. I attended their church where the Bible was central to the whole service. The sermon was preached from the Bible - that was something completely new to me. Deep down I knew these people were genuine Christians. I asked many questions and started to attend the church regularly. About this time, a small Christian group was meeting in my halls of residence. I went along aiming to disrupt the meetings, but slowly began to be drawn to Christ. I saw that they had something that I didn't have - peace with God and a real love for Christ. They knew the reality of 'Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ' (Rom. 5:1). One of them gave me J. I. Packer's book, Knowing God. I read the book and saw that I too could know God in a personal way.
My conversion
One Sunday morning, 8th February 1998, I was listening to a sermon from Luke 10:30-37 about the Good Samaritan. The preacher spoke of Jesus Christ being like the Good Samaritan - coming to help us in our wretched sinful state - while revealing that the Holy Spirit gives new life to lost sinners. He also urged the listeners to repent of sin and trust in Jesus Christ alone for forgiveness. I called upon Jesus Christ to save me, 'For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved' (Rom. 10:13). There and then, I knelt down in my room and prayed, 'O God, I know that you have sent your Son Jesus Christ into the world to save sinners. Will you save me? I trust in Christ alone and ask that you would come into my life by the power of your Holy Spirit and make me new.' I felt a huge weight of guilt and sin taken from my heart. As soon as I opened my eyes a deep sense of peace came over me. At that moment I knew that I was a Christian and truly forgiven of all my sins. The Bible became the living Word of God and he was speaking to me as I read. I realised that we are not saved by works but by grace, 'For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast' (Eph. 2:8,9). I was baptised in London as a believer in September 1998. After my baptism I struggled with temptations and trials, but the Lord was my constant refuge: 'God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble'(Psa. 46:1).
My life as a Christian
On my first visit back to Ireland, I did not know of a Christian church, so I went to mass with my parents. I realised the priest was re-enacting a sacrifice that was accomplished once and for all on the cross of Calvary (Heb. 9:26; 1 Pet. 3:18). For this reason, I couldn't attend the Roman Catholic mass any longer. As a young Irish man, swearing was second nature to me. Very soon after my conversion this dried up. Worldly pursuits like drinking in pubs and going to nightclubs ceased. Prayer and communion with God became a whole new area of experience. I had learned formal rote prayer as a young boy, but now I began truly to pray from my heart. This is still an amazing experience to me: to be able to lift my heart to God as my Father and know that he is listening and will answer my prayers according to his will.
My family were upset that I had left the Roman Catholic faith. At first they thought it was another religious phase I was going through, but they soon realised that this was different. However, the Lord gave me opportunities to share the true gospel with them. About a year later my youngest brother was converted. What joy filled my heart!
Since my conversion, the Lord has taught me so much from his Word. I am especially thankful to one man from the church in London who helped me to study the Bible. We did a complete overview of the Scriptures together, as well as an in-depth study of the doctrines of grace (Calvinism). The glorious truth that God is sovereign in salvation and reaches out in mercy to sinners is truly humbling and amazing. That God, the Creator and Sustainer of the world, should call wretched sinners to himself illustrates his grace. What a joyful day it will be when all his people are united with him in heaven.
Christian service and ministry
About a year after my conversion I was seeking the Lord about serving him. One Lord's Day evening after the service I was praying to the Lord asking him where he wanted me to serve. I read 2 Timothy 3:16-4:5 and was profoundly challenged. I had never studied this portion of God's Word before. It was impressed on me that this was how the Lord wanted me to serve him - to preach the Word. I graduated and worked for a year in the National Treatment Centre for Alcohol and Drugs. Some of the patients were hardened criminals; others were involved in sordid areas of society due to their addictions. I realised the psychological treatment was not dealing with their real problem: their unpardoned sin. I couldn't witness openly to the patients but some enquired what kept me through the difficult times in my life. I told them that it was my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and they were amazed. Both my housemate and a Roman Catholic friend were converted and baptised during this time. It was a great privilege to see the Lord use even me to win sinners to Christ. I conducted a Bible Study in Colossians with some Jehovah's Witnesses. They began to seek Christ but their leaders visited and put an end to it. I pray for these people, that the Lord would open their eyes to his truth. As I taught young boys in a Crusaders Class I soon realized that children can be taught the deep truths of Scripture in a simple, understandable way.
The Lord opened up the way for me to study at London Theological Seminary. The lasting memories of my time there are of the nightly prayer meetings with fellow students and the godly men who taught us theology and prepared us for the ministry.
I know many intelligent Protestant and am alarmed at your lack of charity. Also I would never disdain the simple faith of anyone, Catholic or Protestant.
The fact that Catholic Theology is beyond some does not mean they are stupid.
The Joyful Mysteries
(Mondays and Saturdays)
1. The Annunciation (Luke 1:26-38) [Spiritual fruit - Humility]
2. The Visitation (Luke 1: 39-56) [Spiritual fruit - Love of Neighbor]
3. The Nativity (Luke 2:1-20) [Spiritual fruit - Poverty of Spirit]
4. The Presentation (Luke 2:21-38) [Spiritual fruit - Purity of mind & body]
5. The Finding of Jesus in the Temple (Luke 2:41-52) [Spiritual fruit - Obedience ]
The Luminous Mysteries or Mysteries of Light
(Thursdays) see Rosarium Virginis Mariae
1. Jesus' Baptism in the Jordan (II Corinthians 5:21, Matthew 3:17 and parallels) [Spiritual fruit - Gratitude for the gift of Faith]
2. Jesus' self-manifestation at the wedding of Cana (John 2:1- 12) [Spiritual fruit - Fidelity]
3. Jesus' proclamation of the Kingdom of God, with His call to conversion (Mark 1:15, Mark 2:3-13; Luke 7:47- 48, John 20:22-23) [Spiritual fruit - Desire for Holiness]
4. Jesus' Transfiguration (Luke 9:35 and parallels) [Spiritual fruit - Spiritual Courage]
5. Jesus' institution of the Eucharist, as the sacramental expression of the Paschal Mystery. (Luke 24:13-35 and parallels, 1 Corinthians 11:24-25) [Spiritual fruit - Love of our Eucharistic Lord]
The Sorrowful Mysteries
(Tuesdays and Fridays)
1. The Agony in the Garden (Matthew 26:36-46, Luke 22:39-46) [Spiritual fruit - God's will be done]
2. The Scourging at the Pillar (Matthew 27:26, Mark 15:15, John 19:1) [Spiritual fruit - Mortification of the senses]
3. The Crowning with Thorns (Matthew 27:27-30, Mark 15:16-20, John 19:2) [Spiritual fruit - Reign of Christ in our heart]
4. The Carrying of the Cross (Matthew 27:31-32, Mark 15:21, Luke 23:26-32, John 19:17) [Spiritual fruit - Patient bearing of trials]
5. The Crucifixion (Matthew 27:33-56, Mark 15:22-39, Luke 23:33-49, John 19:17-37) [Spiritual fruit - Pardoning of Injuries]
The Glorious Mysteries
(Wednesdays and Sundays)
1.The Resurrection (Matthew 28:1-8, Mark 16:1-18, Luke 24:1-12, John 20:1-29) [Spiritual fruit - Faith]
2. The Ascension (Mark 16:19-20, Luke 24:50-53, Acts 1:6-11) [Spiritual fruit - Christian Hope]
3. The Descent of the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:1-13) [Spiritual fruit - Gifts of the Holy Spirit]
4. The Assumption [Spiritual fruit - To Jesus through Mary]
5. The Coronation [Spiritual fruit - Grace of Final Perseverance]
I thought of your testimony when I first read this.
Perhaps I didn’t express myself accurately. A Josef Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVIth) versus a Charles Stanley would be a laughable comparison. Fill in the blank with any protestant of your choice.
Don’t be alarmed.
Furthermore, most people of limited intellect leave the Catholic church because they can’t understand things. It’s true. It’s much easier to walk down an aisle and declare one’s love for Jesus and get eternal salvation. Simple, non-intellectual, non-thinking. Maybe that’s why God created Martin Luther.
Thanks for your clarification.
You’re very welcome.
This is the most vituperative and uncharitable thread. I am disgusted. You all should be ashamed, lobbing anti-Catholic slander, blathering on about ‘you can’t be Christian unless you xx (fill in the blank).’
John 17.21: “I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. ... I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one.... May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.”
What kind of witness can we Christians give to the world if we are nattering at each other WITHIN our very family about tittles and jots? I got on the Religion thread because I couldn’t bear to watch Iowa and read the inane news coming out of the secular world. But this thread is by far the most disgusting of all.
There’s plenty of anti-Protestant slander here as well. Just sayin’.
Rom 10:20"... I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me."
Correction: Please change above statement. Should read: “There’s plenty of anti-Protestant slander and bigotry on this thread.”
“He did it first, Mom.”
Just pointing out what should be obvious to all. (Apparently it’s not.)
I feel sorry for this poor confused man and I am not surprised if attendance at Maynooth Seminary left him damaged. That place has been run sexually perverted heretics for the past few decades. He apparently had some very serious issues with sin going in. The disordered environment at Maynooth could only make things worse.
The story is vague but it sounds like he was frustrated by his inability to stop sinning so he sought another route of receiving forgiveness. In other words, it sounds like he thinks that he found an alternative to the battle against sin. He says that Protestantism enabled forgiving, not the ending of his sins.
If he decided to surrender to his sins, that is certainly a reason to leave the Church. However, exchanging true doctrine for false will not win him forgiveness.
Romans 8:34: Who is he that condemneth? [the Pope condemns all that are not Catholics] It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Romans 8:35: Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Romans 8:36: As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Romans 8:37: Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Romans 8:38: For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Romans 8:39: Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
It is Christ's finished work on the Cross that permits me to "rest" in the finished work of Christ knowing that my sins are completely forgiven - it is GOD who forgives my sins, not men -- but you must continue to go about your own self righteous works to be saved...hoping that in the end you are saved after you physically die... All the while I will be in heaven watching from above as you continue to boast in doing good works which are opposed to God's free grace of salvation...
On the contrary...your religious system is spiritually undiscerned to continue to be justified by yourselves out from among works of the flesh.
>>This shows signs of being unlearned. Protestants don’t have a clue about what Catholics really mean or believe.
Self-righteous works are worthless. Did you bother reading what St. Mark the Ascetic wrote in the excerpt I cited?
Stop reading polemical tracts written by ignorant people who don’t know what they are writing about.
The works St. Paul refers to are the works of the Jewish law. He’s not talking about Christians keeping the commandments by faith.
So go rape, steal, cheat, etc. and say the magic words “Jesus I believe in you” and still go to heaven. Isn’t that what you are arguing for?
I know all of these verses, and they don’t mean what you construe them to.
Works without grace are dead, period.
Don’t go twisting scripture to make it fit your agenda, as St. Peter writes.
Of course salvation is by grace alone because there’s no way to be able to satisfy all 613 Levitical commandments that God gave Moses as a punishment for the Israelites’ sins.
Catholics believe in salvation by grace through faith every bit as much as Protestants do. It’s just the Scholastic terminology convolutes their real meaning.
You don’t have a clue about Catholicism.
Protestants should stop reading polemical tracts about Catholics and spend time getting to know real flesh and blood Catholics.
How many devout close Catholic friends do you have?
Jesus is a talisman for many Protestants who think they don’t need to live Christian lives to be saved.
Just look at the great Protestant theologies like “Gay theology”, which is a direct result of this sort of mindset.
“I believe in Jesus and am not under the law, so I can do what ever I want and still get saved.”
The fat guy pic in the chair drinking beer summarizes Protestant views about faith and works nicely because the fat guy has faith but no works.
Jesus is a talisman for many Protestants who think they don’t need to live Christian lives to be saved.
Just look at the great Protestant theologies like “Gay theology”, which is a direct result of this sort of mindset.
“I believe in Jesus and am not under the law, so I can do what ever I want and still get saved.”
The fat guy pic in the chair drinking beer summarizes Protestant views about faith and works nicely because the fat guy has faith but no works.
Many. I live in a predominantly Catholic state. Catholics should follow their own advice and not make assumptions and spend their time instead reading God’s Word (without filling in blanks that aren’t there).
I asked. But just because the state you live in is “Catholic” really doesn’t mean much anymore.
Your average Catholic layman is uneducated about Catholicism.
That’s been my experience in almost 20 years of being a Catholic.
But I asked if you have close friends who are Catholic and who know their faith?
I didn’t presume anything.
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