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Video: Introduction to Preterism
You Tube ^ | 2011 | Alan Bondar

Posted on 01/13/2012 6:42:29 PM PST by grumpa

It is suggested that the viewer not change his mind about Bible prophecy based on this video. But as preterism is probably the fastest growing view of eschatology in the church, we are going to be hearing more and more about it. This video might encourage the viewer to do more study. It is by a young pastor in Florida:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWHiykrDzGo&list=UUeL-YuC4w5ZryACp5B-DWzQ&index=6&feature=plcp.


TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; millennialism; preterism; prophecy
Millennialism, the view that Christ will come again to establish a political utopian kingdom on earth is the dominant view of eschatology among American evangelicals. Billy Graham (bless his heart) began in 1934 telling the world to expect the soon return of Christ. He is just one in a long line of questionable prophets as indeed some Christians throughout history have been falsely predicting various eschatological events. What’s wrong with this picture? Perhaps futurists are making the same mistake about the Second Coming that the Jews made in the first century concerning the First Coming. After a 2000 year string of prophetic failures by Christians who think the end of the world is just around the corner, many Christians are re-examining what the Bible really has to say about this topic.

Millennialism was effectively rejected by the church at the Councils of Constantinople (381 AD) and Ephesus (431 AD). John Calvin in his Institutes of the Christian Religion (3.25.5) said that millennialism (“chiliasm”) is a “fiction” that is “too childish either to need or to be worth a refutation.” Lutherans also formally rejected millennialism in The Augsburg Confession (Article XVII), as did Martin Luther himself. But the church just cannot seem to get over its fascination with Armageddonism.

Young people especially are fed up with many questionable doctrines and practices in the church: slaying-in-the-spirit, transubstantiation, left-behind rapturism, etc. They are no longer satisfied to accept carte blanche what is being fed to them and are ready to re-examine church teaching. They want solid biblical answers unfettered by sectarian tradition or weak exegesis. With the internet, it is now difficult to hide behind questionable doctrine.

We are called to test all things and hold on to what is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21) and to search the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things are so (Acts 17:11). Given these commands, we ourselves have a few questions for questions on matters of eschatology:

http://prophecyquestions.wordpress.com/.

1 posted on 01/13/2012 6:42:41 PM PST by grumpa
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To: grumpa

What’s “eschatology”?

Is it related to the “eschaton”?

(as in: “don’t immanetize”).


2 posted on 01/13/2012 6:51:38 PM PST by sinanju (ua)
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To: grumpa
Billy Graham (bless his heart) began in 1934 telling the world to expect the soon return of Christ. He is just one in a long line of questionable prophets as indeed some Christians throughout history have been falsely predicting various eschatological events. What’s wrong with this picture?

The Rev.Graham is not a questionable prophet. He is doing what he is supposed to be doing. Telling people to get ready for the Lords imminent return, because we don't know the day or the hour, and we don't want to be caught unprepared. How soon is imminent? A couple of thousand years is a just a blink in geologic terms. But Billy ain't as questionable as the questioner.

3 posted on 01/13/2012 6:56:30 PM PST by BipolarBob (I don't mind you shooting at me, Frank, but take it easy on the Bacardi!)
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To: grumpa
We are called to test all things and hold on to what is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21) and to search the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things are so (Acts 17:11). Given these commands, we ourselves have a few questions for questions on matters of eschatology:

The Bereans.

4 posted on 01/13/2012 7:17:25 PM PST by Linda Frances
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To: grumpa

So are you advocating partial preterism or full preterism?


5 posted on 01/13/2012 7:22:40 PM PST by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: grumpa

I believe preterism is the best explanation for most eschatology...but I also believe eschatology is a branch of theology wherein we ought to have lots of charity...one’s view of the end times, whatever that means, isn’t as crucial as man’s view of sin, Christ’s death and resurrection, and salvation by faith.


6 posted on 01/13/2012 8:01:52 PM PST by Recovering_Democrat
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To: grumpa

James Stuart Russell’s “The Parousia” was the book that really got me to think openly about preterism.


7 posted on 01/13/2012 8:04:28 PM PST by Recovering_Democrat
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To: grumpa

I do object to the denigration of Billy Graham. He is a man of God.


8 posted on 01/13/2012 8:06:07 PM PST by Recovering_Democrat
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To: grumpa

I’ll admit that preterism was a defensible position prior to 1948; but when in 1948, over 50 specific prophecies of the return of Israel to its rightful homeland were fulfilled “in a day”, I would think it would be hard to spiritualize those prophecies any longer.
Since the usual way to spiritualize the prophecies of the return of Israel is to ascribe them to the “coming home” of the Gospel into the heart of a believer, rather than interpreting them as an actual physical return to the physical geography of “Palestine” by actual descendants of Jacob, this position is referred to by dispensationalists as “Replacement Theology”. In its essence is the claim that God no longer has any plans for Israel in particular.
I am very much enthused by the return of Israel, and by God’s sustaining them, as He promised to do in the last verse of the Prophet Amos. This is very faith-building for me. And I am appalled that a Christian could believe that God is finished with Israel.


9 posted on 01/13/2012 8:29:51 PM PST by Migraine (Diversity is great; until it happens to YOU.)
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To: Migraine
And I am appalled that a Christian could believe that God is finished with Israel.

For any Christian who is an avid reader of The Bible it is or at least borders on delusional.

10 posted on 01/13/2012 9:08:46 PM PST by Bellflower
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To: grumpa
2Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

2Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation.

11 posted on 01/13/2012 9:19:09 PM PST by Bellflower
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To: Migraine

Romans 2:28-29

King James Version (KJV)

28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

For many years I believed much as you believe. I was raised in dispensationalism and graduated from a Southern Baptist University where I had formal training in dispensational theology. But my views began to change when God opened my eyes on the matter of Divine Sovereignty. I didn’t want to believe any of it because it went against so much of what I had been taught. I could see how it called into question dispensational eschatology. Eventually, however, I was simply overwhelmed with the truth. And it radically changed my life.

I really hope you will take the time to either watch or download the MP3 or PDF (for free) of the sermon entitled “He is a Jew” by Brother Henry Mahan, an old Baptist pastor from Kentucky. That sermon was preached in the mid-80’s, but I bet it will make you think hard about this topic. You will be challenged in a good way.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=41107162134

A few other favorites:

“Jacob Have I Love, Esau Have I Hated.”
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=4100621136

“Wherein Do We Differ?”
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=711062196

“They Cry Peace When There is No Peace”
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=140617590


12 posted on 01/13/2012 9:41:38 PM PST by .45 Long Colt
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To: .45 Long Colt

Bookmarked for later perusal.


13 posted on 01/13/2012 10:03:46 PM PST by runninglips (Republicans = 99 lb weaklings of politics. ProgressiveRepublicansInConservativeCostume)
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To: Migraine
Yours is the most thoughtful answer. I dare say if Jewish leaders at the time of Christ had recognized prophecy of His first coming, not as allegorical, but rather literal and had been looking for that babe in a manger, a savior, and not a conqueror, they would have recognized Him in greater numbers, just as Nicodemus did. The same holds true for His second coming. While God holds many mysteries, His word is living, breathing and LITERAL!!! The fulfillment in 1948, just as the fulfillments 2012 years ago were LITERAL, those yet to be fulfilled are also LITERAL!

I implore any and all to study the 7 feasts. There you will find keys to unlock prophecy. Christ was a literal fulfillment of the true meaning of of the first 4 and will be the LITERAL fulfillment of the last 3 in His second coming.

DO NOT be like the “religious” during the time of Christ's birth who did not see because they did not seek and SCOUR the text. Prophecy is yet to be fulfilled and this time it is going to be a doosy! Do not be caught off guard be because you swallowed what was spoon fed to you, but rather seek on your own. The Holy Spirit will be faithful to guide into all truth!

Shalom

14 posted on 01/13/2012 10:11:23 PM PST by Anti-Hillary (No Jesus, No Peace! Know Jesus, Know Peace!)
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To: Bellflower

And one might consider the parable of the ten virgins? Where
Jesus of Nazareth was teaching about ten virgins some wise and some foolish. Some came prepared —with oil for their lamps—For none know when He will come for His Bride.I am sorry if I offend any —but I do believe we are called to be
ready -to watch —and to wait for His return. I was taught that the church had replaced the Jew-But that doctrine does NOT reflect what Paul wrote to the Believers at Rome. As as the Revelation of Jesus Christ anticipates a new Jerusalem—so do I.Where there will be neither Jew ,Nor Gentile,and No more tears. No man can know ,not even the bridegroom ,and this too reflects Jewish tradition-I am told.The promise of His coming remains as sure as the sun rising in the morning.


15 posted on 01/14/2012 4:31:45 AM PST by StonyBurk (ring)
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To: Migraine; Bellflower

the key is understanding who the Israel of God is.

is Israel all those that are saved, those “ in Christ”

OR is Israel those people sharing a certain DNA.

of course God isn’t thru with Israel, He is thru with those that reject Jesus Christ.


16 posted on 01/14/2012 6:23:00 AM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: .45 Long Colt; Migraine

The Church is Israel, this is orthodox Christian doctrine for 2,000 years.

the dispensational nonsense did not appear on the world until the 19th century ( same with mormonism, seventh day adventists and jehovah witnesses, what a century for heresy! )


17 posted on 01/14/2012 6:26:49 AM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
So are you advocating partial preterism or full preterism?

From the YooToob link: "In this video, Pastor Alan Bondar provides an explanation and a defense of full preterism."

Google on Alan Bodnar.

Readers might want to peruse "Two Dozen (or so) Orthodox Arguments Against Hyper-Preterism ".

It's rather disingenuous to bring up Luther's and Calvin's, and the patristic, rejection of chiliasm, as though that were a support for hyperpreterism.

18 posted on 01/14/2012 8:02:28 AM PST by Lee N. Field ("Bad eschatology drives out good.")
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

You are, of course, correct.


19 posted on 01/14/2012 8:04:36 AM PST by circlecity
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Amen!

It ought to give every dispensational Christian pause that Mormons and Jehovah’s Witness and 7th Day Adventists share their basic eschatology.

Something else I am really thankful for, as I type this, my elderly parents are attending their first class on the Doctrines of Grace and basic reformed theology. They have been in dispensational free will Southern Baptist congregations all of their lives, so this class will really challenge their beliefs.


20 posted on 01/14/2012 8:13:21 AM PST by .45 Long Colt
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Amen!

It ought to give every dispensational Christian pause that Mormons and Jehovah’s Witness and 7th Day Adventists share their basic eschatology.

Something else I am really thankful for, as I type this, my elderly parents are attending their first class on the Doctrines of Grace and basic reformed theology. They have been in dispensational free will Southern Baptist congregations all of their lives, so this class will really challenge their beliefs.


21 posted on 01/14/2012 8:15:09 AM PST by .45 Long Colt
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

I believe the Apostle Paul dealt with that rather clearly in Romans 2.


22 posted on 01/14/2012 8:20:51 AM PST by .45 Long Colt
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

You are implying that I am a heretic, along with the others you mentioned in the same breath. I do not return the favor; rather, I call you a brother in Christ with a differing view of the future, which we both see through a glass darkly. I value the one Lord one Faith one Baptism aspect of our mutual faith — in fact, I have memorized the entirety of Ephesians, I value its lofty implications so highly. I value the oneness Jesus sought for us in the garden as He prayed with an unimaginable intensity for that very thing. So I do not call you a heretic just because we see a vague, obliquely-delineated future differently.

I do have a position, however, and will contend earnestly for it. I do not hold the position frivously; but rather, studiously, as you do yours.

Dispensationalism is actually ancient. It refers prinipally to God’s new and different ways of dealing with, and relating to, mankind over time. He dealt with Adam one way before the Fall, another way ever afterward. He dealt with Noah one way as He judged the world by Flood (itself a different dispensation) than He dealt with Noah and his few survivors after the Flood.
More dispensations:
Babel
Abraham
Moses, the Levitical Law
the Wilderness journey
the period of the Judges
the Kings
Babylon
the years of famine for hearing the Word of God
when Christ was on the earth
the ascension and Pentecost
the New Testament and the Church (the present)

It does not seem unusual, then, to me, that God intends to end the present dispensation by putting Israel back on center stage for 7 years as implied in Daniel 9:24-7. Now, to me, the antiquity of preterism is understandable in view of 1)early Christian antipathy toward Jews and 2) the seeming impossibility of Israel ever returning to its land. On the other hand, the relative newness of the return to dispensational interpretation is also understandable because of our present and increasing proximity to the actual apocalyptic events. This, to me, is reminiscent of the exitement around Judea as dispensionally-minded people began to feel that the time was right for Messiah to appear. It is also like the feeling in America as the unthinkable, Civil War, began to seem inevitable (signs of the times seemed very much on the near horizon — BTW, are we seeing those signs again?). Churchill wrote of “The Gathering Storm”; scientists are trying to discern pre-earthquake patterns (all the more noticeable as the event approaches); women have birth pangs (again, the more noticeable as the event approaches).

So, we have our reasons, just as you have yours. I obviously think my reasons are better; but I don’t call you a heretic. I would gladly pray alongside you; I would gladly take communion with you. We have a higher cause that transcends this particular issue.


23 posted on 01/14/2012 8:22:17 AM PST by Migraine (Diversity is great; until it happens to YOU.)
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To: .45 Long Colt
It ought to give every dispensational Christian pause that Mormons and Jehovah’s Witness and 7th Day Adventists share their basic eschatology.

One would think.

***hint: it ain't us "preterist, amil, 'replacementarian'" types that have eschatological beliefs nearly lock step with heretic religions.... I'm just saying. --raynearhood

24 posted on 01/14/2012 8:34:24 AM PST by Lee N. Field ("Bad eschatology drives out good.")
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To: Lee N. Field
It ought to give every dispensational Christian pause that Mormons and Jehovah’s Witness and 7th Day Adventists share their basic eschatology.

This is a bizarre, straw-man, finding -- a little like saying "milk has a lot in common with vodka since farming is involved in the production of both".

More to your point, Mormons believe they are the fulfillment of Israel -- their present-day expression. Joseph Smith is seen as a re-iteration of Moses. In Mormon parlance, the rest of us are called "gentiles". Sounds a lot more like replacement theology that it does dispensationalism.

I could do the same for Jehovah's Witnesses and 7th Day Adventists and preterism. But that would be a straw man, wouldn't it?

25 posted on 01/14/2012 9:56:53 AM PST by Migraine (Diversity is great; until it happens to YOU.)
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To: Migraine

dispensationalism is a horrible heresy, because it denies the Church and makes the kingdom of God about DNA rather than faith in Jesus Christ. ( i don’t know you, so i am not accusing you of being a heretic, you just may have been taught poorly )
the NT is clear the true Jew is one inwardly, not outwardly ( having the proper DNA )
the NT is clear that if belong to Jesus Christ, you are an heir to the promises made to Abraham.
the NT is clear “so all Israel shall be saved”. Does this mean every physical Jew will be saved? NO! Christians have never belived this and Jesus Himself told the Jews of His day they would die in their sins unless they believed in Him. No, the true Israel of God will all be saved and this Israel is not dtermined by flesh and blood, but all those that by the grace of God are in Christ ( Jew and Gentile alike )


26 posted on 01/15/2012 4:49:42 AM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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