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Why Does My Bible Read That Way?
`/23/2012 | Count-your -change

Posted on 01/23/2012 3:27:12 PM PST by count-your-change

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To: count-your-change

From the appendix...

...very generally admitted to be the oldest version that has come down to us, of the New Testament in any language.

I do not have a first edition, my copy is by Carters, a second edition from 1879.

It is plain, but in a way kind of floral.

Here is the Lords prayer:

Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name:
Thy kingdom come: Thy will be done; as in heaven, so on earth:
Give us our needful bread, this day:
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors:
And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever: Amen.


51 posted on 01/23/2012 7:46:34 PM PST by djf (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2801220/posts)
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To: count-your-change
"First of all the thread is not about John 1:1, that should have a thread to itself. Then Catholics have “their own version”, the NAB, and the United Bible Society has “their own version” and someone has the Peshitta and so forth. "

=======================================================

I was not remotely suggesting discussing John 1:1 on this thread, but for you to research that which you purport to be some sort of authority on.

Are you a JW perchance?

52 posted on 01/23/2012 7:58:18 PM PST by Manic_Episode (Politics is fake. I think it's owned by Vince Mcmahon)
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To: Manic_Episode

I’ve not purported to be any sort of authority but I am familiar with the sources I use. That why I use them.

If you wish to make a point feel free to do so. But do try to be specific if you will, please.

As for myself I never discuss anything, not age, location, nothing about myself personally. Never have and won’t start now.


53 posted on 01/23/2012 8:29:54 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
My point is the New World Translation is so flawed only a JW would offer an apologetic for it, or someone who has no business discussing anything bible related.

Any serious discussion related to the New World Translation amongst anyone knowledgeable is a discussion discrediting it whole cloth.

The New World Translation is heretical, therefore anyone giving it any credibility is also heretical.

Comparing it to other translations and defending it like you have here is ridiculous and exposes you as someone not to be taken seriously at the least, or someone with an agenda (ie JW)

Is my point specific enough?

54 posted on 01/23/2012 8:48:15 PM PST by Manic_Episode (Politics is fake. I think it's owned by Vince Mcmahon)
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To: Manic_Episode

I will give your opinions all the attention they deserve.


55 posted on 01/23/2012 10:46:32 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

When in doubt, I head to the original languages.


56 posted on 01/23/2012 10:51:41 PM PST by reaganaut (If Romney is a conservative then I'm the frickin Angel Moroni.)
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To: reaganaut

Always a good idea and it’s been easier to do so by the publication of facsimiles of the major manuscripts and translations.


57 posted on 01/23/2012 11:00:40 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: aruanan

Agree on NWT - it is not a translation


58 posted on 01/23/2012 11:03:45 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: count-your-change

My translation from the Greek:

“No one has ever seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the Father’s bosom has made Him known.”

I deliberately left out commas that commonly separate the phrase “who is in the Father’s bosom” because they are not in the manuscript. The Greek word theos (God) is clearly used after “begotten” - any translation that uses “Son” is an example of a translater who functions as an interpreter.

The end result is something that is theologically, historically and contextually correct - but not textually correct. My preference is to have a direct translation, with difficulties explained in the margins. For example, if a translator changed it to “Son” because of a fear of modalism (God as one person acting out three roles) or polytheism (more than one God), those concerns should be noted in the footnotes, with cross-references to other verses that help explain historic Christianity, which teaches that there is one God revealed in three persons.


59 posted on 01/24/2012 12:08:38 AM PST by scott7278 ("...I have not changed Congress and how it operates the way I would have liked..." - BHO)
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To: scott7278

Yes, I too would prefer explanations, interpretations and such be in notes.
And thanks for your comments.


60 posted on 01/24/2012 2:03:30 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change; HiTech RedNeck; boatbums; metmom

While I disagree with the Jehovah’s Witness point of view, what you say about the “The differences can be quite minor, word order and choice of words that carry much the same the thought or of a rather substantial nature that will affect our understanding of the Scriptures as a whole.” is quite true.


61 posted on 01/24/2012 6:08:04 AM PST by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: count-your-change

There are 3 versions that I prefer, King James Version, New International Version, and the Amplified King James Version for studying.


62 posted on 01/24/2012 6:14:18 AM PST by DonkeyBonker
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To: count-your-change

and, cyc, good thread — a chance to discuss and debate without pointing fingers.


63 posted on 01/24/2012 6:44:38 AM PST by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: Cronos

It really is possible to have a thread without the invective and eye gouging so typical and I thank all for that....well almost all but I’ll call it square.


64 posted on 01/24/2012 8:21:01 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: DonkeyBonker

I myself, pick according to what usage I have in mind. And often according to the print font used.


65 posted on 01/24/2012 8:28:00 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Salvation; count-your-change
In the Greek it’s “monogenēs theos”. God (theon) no one has seen ever yet only-begotten (monogenēs) God (theos) the is in the bosom of the Father he declared.

Monogenes
single of its kind, only used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God

Theon (accusative)

Theos (nominative)
a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities the Godhead, trinity God the Father, the first person in the trinity Christ, the second person of the trinity Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity spoken of the only and true God refers to the things of God his counsels, interests, things due to him whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way God's representative or viceregent of magistrates and judges

Simply put. No one has seen God ever yet the only begotten God in the bosom of the Father declared Him.

It seems to me that the interpretation should be “the only begotten God”.

66 posted on 01/24/2012 9:23:42 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: count-your-change

My favorite online Bible source.

You can bring up parallel translations of any one verse and then go to the Greek or Hebrew which is connected to a Strong’s to find the meanings of the words.

It’s very easy to use.

http://biblos.com/


67 posted on 01/24/2012 10:17:42 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: CynicalBear
“It seems to me that the interpretation should be “the only begotten God”.

In the p66, John 1:18, the only begotten “theos” is written as a theta plus an s with a line over both. No upper or lower case.

So whether it should appear as “God” or “god” depends upon the view of the translator of the context and even his own bias.

“Monogenes
single of its kind, only used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God”

“Single of its kind” being the only, uniquely generated son
(mono + genes) fitting of Christ.

68 posted on 01/24/2012 10:35:33 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: metmom

Thanks. I think I’ve used that site before and likewise found it quite useful. Here’s another to add to your favorites list,

Online Greek Interlinear Biblewww.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Greek_Index.htmCached - Similar


69 posted on 01/24/2012 10:46:51 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

A very good translation of the bible is the net bible.


70 posted on 01/24/2012 4:00:22 PM PST by guitarplayer1953 (Grammar & spelling maybe wrong, get over it, the world will not come to an end!)
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To: guitarplayer1953
Thanks! There are far more I want to examine than I can afford so I'm thankful that so many are available online for free.

What is it you like about this particular translation?

71 posted on 01/24/2012 4:08:04 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
They have spent years putting it together and they have lots of foot notes such as was a certain verse always in the bible or what other translations say about a verse it has been put together very well and I think it has come out of Dallas Theological School.
72 posted on 01/24/2012 4:38:46 PM PST by guitarplayer1953 (Grammar & spelling maybe wrong, get over it, the world will not come to an end!)
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To: djf

Very cool, thanks for posting that link. I spent a good hour investigating that earliest of Biblical manuscripts, the Peshitta.


73 posted on 01/24/2012 4:44:27 PM PST by Ciexyz
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