[EnglishCon]

I am posting this, as I simply don't know the answers. I was raised the old fashioned way, in the church and to both look after and respect women. This is a point where the three parts of my raising conflict badly.

To be clear, I seek no converts to my point of view, since it does not really exist, nor to cause dissention. I wish to refine my point of view. Talked to God both privately and in church and he has been rather quiet on this subject, so I ask the good people here to discuss this with me.

I ask for your wisdom. Prayers too, as always, for a troubling topic.

[JenB]

Men shouldn’t butt out of the abortion argument any more than non-Jews should have “butted out” of discussions of Hitler’s final solution. Until we treat unborn humans as humans and not property we won’t have success arguing against abortion.

Rape and incest are horrible. They should be punished. But the child is innocent.

I like to offer people a deal. We’ll keep abortion legal in cases of rape and incest, but if the woman aborts, her rapist is put to death. Deal? If not, then how can anyone argue that the baby deserves death but the rapist does not?

[svcw]

Abortion is wrong - period.
Rape and incest - the child should die because the conception was faulty. Hundreds of organizations that counsel women who are in these situation. Thousands of babies are born, and have perfectly good lives as a result of these acts.
Life of the mother is interesting argument. According to studies there is almost no instance where the mother mother will die if the baby is delivered. Most problems occur after the the 22 week. The baby has a decent chance of survival. There is ZERO reason to kill the baby at 22+ weeks, because the mother is ill. The baby can be delivered and survive.

[ShadowAce]

The only instance that I am aware of in which the mother's life is at risk, or the baby's life is not possible, is a tubal pregnancy--where the fertilized egg embeds into the fallopian tube as opposed to the uterus. These pregnancies were terminated long before Roe, and is not considered an abortion, per se.

In every other instance, killing an unborn child is killing the *one* person in the situation who is most innocent in order to convenience the most guilty. (I'm not blaming the mother in cases of rape, etc., but if one is assigning an sorted order of the parties, the baby is most innocent)

Abortion is wrong in all cases.

[ixtl]

Wow! What a post to begin my daily reading of FR. I found it serious, thought-provoking, and free of stereotypical ‘fem-bashing.’

(Background: I am a 70+ year-old male, with three adult children and two precious granddaughters. And yes, my wife and I practiced birth control; temprorary until we reached the number of children we desired, and then a permanent one.)

Your view somewhat mirrors my own. I believe that in those limited circumstances where abortion is justified, it should be a medical decision between the woman and her doctor, with the woman having the final say.

May the prime cause of everything be beneficient unto you.... that is God bless you.

[Josephat]

God was not quiet on this subject. He said, “Thou shalt not kill”. It’s really that simple.

[Sans-Culotte]

So, basically, you’re pro-choice.

[G Larry]

Nobody EVER proposed a law limiting access to abortion to “life of the mother”.
(Or rape and incest, for that matter)
This is a 40 year old RED HERRING, used as an excuse to kill 1.5 Million babies per year in the U.S.

[EyeGuy]

“We don’t have the skin in the game that women do.”

####

Bullshit.

Only if you aren’t a real man and don’t accept your CLEAR responsibility for the child you helped conceive.

The woman may be the vessel in which the child develops during his first nine months of life, but unless you are a totally self-absorbed jerk, willing to take the easy route that our sick society allows, that child is just as much yours as it is hers.

Yes, you have lots of “skin” in the “game”. Whether you are mature and civilized enough to recognize it, is another story entirely.

[Politicalmom]

Abortion is MURDER.

Your equivocating won’t change that. Evil is evil, whether one is a man or a woman.

I forsee a possible zot in your future. This is a garbage vanity.

[MEGoody]

I believe it is right for pregnancies resulting from rape or from incest.

So it is right to kill the child because of the sins of the father?

If there is a textbook definition of an unwanted child, it is the child of rape or incest

So it's okay to kill someone just because I don't want them?

[blueunicorn6]

It is the tyranny of the extrouterine over the introuterine. The biggest fear that Democrats/liberals/progressives/socialists have is that there are/will be too many people in the world. So, once again, we kill PEOPLE because of liberal’s FEARS. Peel back the layers of fear on a liberal and you’ll always find that they’re afraid they (and their progeny) won’t have as much stuff if there’s more people in the world. All of the pro-abortion arguments are just a smokescreen to cover up killing people because of liberal’s fear.

[EternalVigilance]

Equal Protection for Posterity

[Salvation]

But it’s an easy answer: “Thou shalt not kill.”

Neither a man nor a woman should kill their baby.

[trisham]

It’s a very easy question to answer, once one acknowledges that what is at stake is the life of a baby.

[Salvation]

**believe it is right for pregnancies resulting from rape or from incest**

Never — offer the baby up for adoption.

Women even choose to die rather than to kill their own babies. Why should these instances be any different if the men and the women (doctors) have any consciences at all.

[wagglebee]

Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]

[Salvation]

Gianna Beretta Molla is now a saint, and she died giving life to her child. Please read her story -- I think you will change your mind.

Daughter of St. Gianna Molla to Visit U.S. for the First Time
A Holy Couple Reunited in Heaven—Death of Pietro Molla, Husband of St. Gianna Beretta Molla ....
Catholic Health Center for Women Opens in Manhattan (Gianna Center)
Daughter of Saint Gianna Beretta Molla Attends US March for Life
A patron saint for life (Gianna Beretta Molla)
Pope Canonizes Gianna Molla; Secular Media at a Loss
Bl. Gianna Beretta Molla
Gianna Beretta, Who Died for Her Unborn Child, to Be Canonized (She Refused Cancer Treatment)
Gianna Beretta Molla Offered Life For Her [Unborn]Child
Blessed Gianna[Gianna Beretta Molla]

[Salvation]

Take a look at this picture and ask yourself if the United States is going to be punished for so many abortions.

Each “+” (cross) represents 10,000 deaths (or fraction thereof)

Revolutionary War 6,188
+

War of 1812 4,505
+

Mexican War 4,152
+

U. S. Civil War (both sides) 498,332
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

Spanish-American War 2,446
+

World War I 116,516
+ + + + + + + + + + + +

World War II 405,399
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

Korea 54,246
+ + + + + +

Vietnam 58,167
+ + + + + +

Desert Storm 293
+

Afghanistan/Iraq Liberation 3,500
+

Grand Total all U.S. Wars 1,150,744
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Abortions in the U.S. (Since Roe v. Wade in 1973) 54,559,615
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[wagglebee]

I believe it is right for pregnancies resulting from rape or from incest.

Do you have a list of other crimes for which you think the criminal's CHILD should be put to death?

If YOUR FATHER was to rape a woman, do you deserve to be killed?

If there is a textbook definition of an unwanted child, it is the child of rape or incest, and I don’t want to go there.

Unwanted by WHOM? If God did not want the child to be conceived, there would not have been a conception.

Before I formed thee in the bowels of thy mother, I knew thee: and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee, (Jeremiah 1:5)

Talked to God both privately and in church and he has been rather quiet on this subject,

I believe He was quite clear when He said, "Thou shalt not kill."

[cornfedcowboy]

I respect the opinions of those in this thread stating that abortion is murder. I couldn’t agree more.
That being said, please remember that the only way the pro-life movement will succeed is by changing hearts.........not by winning arguments.