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Catholic Word of the Day: PURGATORY, 01-30-12
CatholicReference.net ^ | 01-30-12 | Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary

Posted on 01/30/2012 9:48:00 AM PST by Salvation

Featured Term (selected at random):

PURGATORY

The place or condition in which the souls of the just are purified after death and before they can enter heaven. They may be purified of the guilt of their venial sins, as in this life, by an act of contrition deriving from charity and performed with the help of grace. This sorrow does not, however, affect the punishment for sins, because in the next world there is no longer any possibility of merit. The souls are certainly purified by atoning for the temporal punishments due to sin by their willing acceptance of suffering imposed by God. The sufferings in purgatory are not the same for all, but proportioned to each person's degree of sinfulness. Moreover, these sufferings can be lessened in duration and intensity through the prayers and good works of the faithful on earth. Nor are the pains incompatible with great peace and joy, since the poor souls deeply love God and are sure they will reach heaven. As members of the Church Suffering, the souls in purgatory can intercede for the persons on earth, who are therefore encouraged to invoke their aid. Purgatory will not continue after the general judgment, but its duration for any particular souls continues until it is free from all guilt and punishment. Immediately on purification the soul is assumed into heaven. (Etym. Latin purgatio, cleansing, purifying.)

All items in this dictionary are from Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary, © Eternal Life. Used with permission.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: brokencaucus; catholic; death; purgatory
**since the poor souls deeply love God and are sure they will reach heaven. As members of the Church Suffering, the souls in purgatory can intercede for the persons on earth, who are therefore encouraged to invoke their aid.**

We often forget to invoke the aid of the poor souls in Purgatory, don't we?

1 posted on 01/30/2012 9:48:08 AM PST by Salvation
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To: Salvation
FR threads for those who want to know more.

Of saints, sinners, and purgatorial souls [Catholic Caucus]

First Things - Purgatory for Everyone
What the Church means by Purgatory
Radio Replies Second Volume - Purgatory
Purgatory Exists. And It Burns
The Month of November: Thoughts on the "Last Things"
To Trace All Souls Day (Protestants vs Catholics)
Radio Replies First Volume - Purgatory
The Doctrine of Purgatory [Ecumenical]
The Heroic Act [Catholic-Orthodox Caucus] (Offering everything for the Souls in Purgatory)
MONTLIGEON MIRACLE: HOW PRIEST TURNED INTO 'TRAVELING SALESMAN' OF PURGATORY

IN BRUSH WITH DEATH, PRIEST SHOWN HELL, PURGATORY, DEGREES OF SUFFERING
Praying for the Dead [All Souls Day] (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)
Purgatory: Service Shop for Heaven [Ecumernical]
Beginning Catholic: Catholic Purgatory: What Does It Mean? [Ecumenical]
OF GUARDIAN ANGELS AND THE ROLE THEY PLAY NOT JUST ON EARTH BUT IN PURGATORY [Catholic Caucus]
IN ANNALS OF SAINTS IS CONVERT'S STRIKING DEDICATION TO THOSE SOULS IN PURGATORY [Catholic Caucus]
Explaining Purgatory from a New Testament Perspective [Ecumenical]
PURIFYING THE SOUL ON EARTH IS WORTH 100X WHAT IT TAKES AFTER [Catholic Caucus] What Happens After Death?
Purgatory
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 12: Purgatory

The Doctrine of Purgatory
The Early Church Fathers on Purgatory - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
Required for entrance to Purgatory? Personal question for Cathloic Freepers.
(Protestant) Minister Who Had Near-Death Episode Believes In Purgatory
Straight Answers: What Is Purgatory Like?
Do Catholics Believe in Purgatory?
Purgatory, Indulgences, and the Work of Jesus Christ (Discussion)
Prayer to Release the Souls of Purgatory
The Forgotten Souls in Purgatory
Praying for the dead [Purgatory]

2 posted on 01/30/2012 9:50:20 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: JRandomFreeper; Allegra; BlackVeil; Straight Vermonter; Cronos; SumProVita; AnAmericanMother; ...

Catholic Word of the Day – links will be provided later by another FReeper.  (Would anyone like to help with this?)

 

Capital Virtues

Gelasian Sacramentary

Sodom

Natural Religion

Montanism

Ex Voto

Immanentist Apologetics

Credo Quia Absurdum

Purgatory

 

 

 

Catholic Word of the Day Ping!

If you aren’t on this Catholic Word of the Day Ping list and would like to be, please send me a FReepmail.


3 posted on 01/30/2012 9:52:32 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: Salvation

Jesus PAID for all my sin. I trust in Him and Him only for my salvation. He is my ‘purgatory’, He is sufficient.


5 posted on 01/30/2012 10:12:35 AM PST by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: RoadGumby

Thank you, Jesus, for your atonement for my sins. Paid once and for all.

Romans 8:1
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.


6 posted on 01/30/2012 10:17:39 AM PST by Country Gal
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: RoadGumby

Right on. Purgatory denies the sufficiency off Christ. It’s is nowhere in the bible.


9 posted on 01/30/2012 10:36:39 AM PST by LevinFan
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To: Salvation

Thanks Salvation, I see several on the post several people wanting to demean the Church and Faith, but I am willing to bet they have not references any of your links provided on the apologetic side (explanations of faith). You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them drink. God gave us freewill and sometimes we use that freewill to our own demise especially if hatred instead of love is involved.

God Bless

Keep the info flowing!


10 posted on 01/30/2012 10:48:24 AM PST by jafojeffsurf (Return to the Constitution)
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To: Country Gal; RoadGumby
Absolutely agree that all sins are forgiven by the Divine Sacrifice.

But that's not the whole story.

C.S. Lewis (who's pretty well thought of by Christians generally) had this to say:

I believe in Purgatory.

Mind you, the Reformers had good reasons for throwing doubt on the 'Romish doctrine concerning Purgatory' as that Romish doctrine had then become.....

The right view returns magnificently in Newman's DREAM. There, if I remember it rightly, the saved soul, at the very foot of the throne, begs to be taken away and cleansed. It cannot bear for a moment longer 'With its darkness to affront that light'. Religion has claimed Purgatory.

Our souls demand Purgatory, don't they? Would it not break the heart if God said to us, 'It is true, my son, that your breath smells and your rags drip with mud and slime, but we are charitable here and no one will upbraid you with these things, nor draw away from you. Enter into the joy'? Should we not reply, 'With submission, sir, and if there is no objection, I'd rather be cleaned first.' 'It may hurt, you know' - 'Even so, sir.'

I assume that the process of purification will normally involve suffering. Partly from tradition; partly because most real good that has been done me in this life has involved it. But I don't think the suffering is the purpose of the purgation. I can well believe that people neither much worse nor much better than I will suffer less than I or more. . . . The treatment given will be the one required, whether it hurts little or much.

My favourite image on this matter comes from the dentist's chair. I hope that when the tooth of life is drawn and I am 'coming round',' a voice will say, 'Rinse your mouth out with this.' This will be Purgatory. The rinsing may take longer than I can now imagine. The taste of this may be more fiery and astringent than my present sensibility could endure. But . . . it will [not] be disgusting and unhallowed."

- C.S. Lewis, Letters To Malcolm: Chiefly on Prayer

You also might consider 1st Corinthians 3:13.

11 posted on 01/30/2012 11:33:57 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Salvation

As Paul said: “Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions.”. Col 1:24

And like Jesus said: “Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this world OR IN THE NEXT...”

Thank goodness for Purgatory. While not specifically mentioned in the bible, it is implied throughout.


12 posted on 01/30/2012 11:58:27 AM PST by ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton (Go Egypt on 0bama)
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To: AnAmericanMother

I consider what Jesus told the thief on the cross”

“Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise.”

Also, I consider - To absent from this body is to be present with the Lord.

Jesus said “TODAY” Not, “After a bit” not “After you are cleansed” not “After.....” but he said TODAY.

To say that He is sufficient, yet more is needed seems a bit contradictory or confusing. And confusion is not of God. Jesus spoke plainly. He IS the cleansing.


13 posted on 01/30/2012 1:01:46 PM PST by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: RoadGumby

But Christ was not in heaven, for as in the Apostles’ Crred we say: “He descended into hell
On the third day he asceneded into heaven
And is seated at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty.”

So for three days, Christ went to fetch the saved souls from ‘paradise’ a waiting place, and they along with the good thief followed him into heaven. Christ was the first one into heaven, right?

I think a lot of people forget about thise three days in the tomb.

Remember, “Nothing is impossible with God.”


14 posted on 01/30/2012 2:54:10 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: LevinFan
\even by St. Paul, Purgatory is referred to:

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html

 


Scripture

I. A State After Death of Suffering and Forgiveness

Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” The word “opponent” (antidiko) is likely a reference to the devil (see the same word for devil in 1 Pet. 5:8) who is an accuser against man (c.f. Job 1.6-12; Zech. 3.1; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge. If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, we will be held in a temporary state called a prison, and we won’t get out until we have satisfied our entire debt to God. This “prison” is purgatory where we will not get out until the last penny is paid.

Matt. 5:48 - Jesus says, "be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect." We are only made perfect through purification, and in Catholic teaching, this purification, if not completed on earth, is continued in a transitional state we call purgatory.

Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.

Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there are no beatings, and in hell we will no longer live with the Master.

Luke 16:19-31 - in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God's graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.

1 Cor. 15:29-30 - Paul mentions people being baptized on behalf of the dead, in the context of atoning for their sins (people are baptized on the dead’s behalf so the dead can be raised). These people cannot be in heaven because they are still with sin, but they also cannot be in hell because their sins can no longer be atoned for. They are in purgatory. These verses directly correspond to 2 Macc. 12:44-45 which also shows specific prayers for the dead, so that they may be forgiven of their sin.

Phil. 2:10 - every knee bends to Jesus, in heaven, on earth, and "under the earth" which is the realm of the righteous dead, or purgatory.

2 Tim. 1:16-18 - Onesiphorus is dead but Paul asks for mercy on him “on that day.” Paul’s use of “that day” demonstrates its eschatological usage (see, for example, Rom. 2.5,16; 1 Cor. 1.8; 3.13; 5.5; 2 Cor. 1.14; Phil. 1.6,10; 2.16; 1 Thess. 5.2,4,5,8; 2 Thess. 2.2,3; 2 Tim. 4.8). Of course, there is no need for mercy in heaven, and there is no mercy given in hell. Where is Onesiphorus? He is in purgatory.

Heb. 12:14 - without holiness no one will see the Lord. We need final sanctification to attain true holiness before God, and this process occurs during our lives and, if not completed during our lives, in the transitional state of purgatory.

Heb. 12:23 - the spirits of just men who died in godliness are "made" perfect. They do not necessarily arrive perfect. They are made perfect after their death. But those in heaven are already perfect, and those in hell can no longer be made perfect. These spirits are in purgatory.

1 Peter 3:19; 4:6 - Jesus preached to the spirits in the "prison." These are the righteous souls being purified for the beatific vision.

Rev. 21:4 - God shall wipe away their tears, and there will be no mourning or pain, but only after the coming of the new heaven and the passing away of the current heaven and earth. Note the elimination of tears and pain only occurs at the end of time. But there is no morning or pain in heaven, and God will not wipe away their tears in hell. These are the souls experiencing purgatory.

Rev. 21:27 - nothing unclean shall enter heaven. The word “unclean” comes from the Greek word “koinon” which refers to a spiritual corruption. Even the propensity to sin is spiritually corrupt, or considered unclean, and must be purified before entering heaven. It is amazing how many Protestants do not want to believe in purgatory. Purgatory exists because of the mercy of God. If there were no purgatory, this would also likely mean no salvation for most people. God is merciful indeed.

Luke 23:43 – many Protestants argue that, because Jesus sent the good thief right to heaven, there can be no purgatory. There are several rebuttals. First, when Jesus uses the word "paradise,” He did not mean heaven. Paradise, from the Hebrew "sheol," meant the realm of the righteous dead. This was the place of the dead who were destined for heaven, but who were captive until the Lord's resurrection. Second, since there was no punctuation in the original manuscript, Jesus’ statement “I say to you today you will be with me in paradise” does not mean there was a comma after the first word “you.” This means Jesus could have said, “I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise” (meaning, Jesus could have emphasized with exclamation his statement was “today” or “now,” and that some time in the future the good thief would go to heaven). Third, even if the thief went straight to heaven, this does not prove there is no purgatory (those who are fully sanctified in this life – perhaps by a bloody and repentant death – could be ready for admission in to heaven).

Gen. 50:10; Num. 20:29; Deut. 34:8 - here are some examples of ritual prayer and penitent mourning for the dead for specific periods of time. The Jewish understanding of these practices was that the prayers freed the souls from their painful state of purification, and expedited their journey to God.

Baruch 3:4 - Baruch asks the Lord to hear the prayers of the dead of Israel. Prayers for the dead are unnecessary in heaven and unnecessary in hell. These dead are in purgatory.

Zech. 9:11 - God, through the blood of His covenant, will set those free from the waterless pit, a spiritual abode of suffering which the Church calls purgatory.

2 Macc. 12:43-45 - the prayers for the dead help free them from sin and help them to the reward of heaven. Those in heaven have no sin, and those in hell can no longer be freed from sin. They are in purgatory. Luther was particularly troubled with these verses because he rejected the age-old teaching of purgatory. As a result, he removed Maccabees from the canon of the Bible.


15 posted on 01/30/2012 3:02:43 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: xhrist; GOP_Party_Animal; Religion Moderator

Whu do you call Catholics “Hitlers”? Really not appropriate on the religion forum.


16 posted on 01/30/2012 3:05:32 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: xhrist; GOP_Party_Animal
More from the Bible on being purified before entering heaven.

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html
 
II. Purification After Death By Fire

Heb. 12:29 - God is a consuming fire (of love in heaven, of purgation in purgatory, or of suffering and damnation in hell).

1 Cor. 3:10-15 - works are judged after death and tested by fire. Some works are lost, but the person is still saved. Paul is referring to the state of purgation called purgatory. The venial sins (bad works) that were committed are burned up after death, but the person is still brought to salvation. This state after death cannot be heaven (no one with venial sins is present) or hell (there is no forgiveness and salvation).

1 Cor. 3:15 – “if any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” The phrase for "suffer loss" in the Greek is "zemiothesetai." The root word is "zemioo" which also refers to punishment. The construction “zemiothesetai” is used in Ex. 21:22 and Prov. 19:19 which refers to punishment (from the Hebrew “anash” meaning “punish” or “penalty”). Hence, this verse proves that there is an expiation of temporal punishment after our death, but the person is still saved. This cannot mean heaven (there is no punishment in heaven) and this cannot mean hell (the possibility of expiation no longer exists and the person is not saved).

1 Cor. 3:15 – further, Paul writes “he himself will be saved, "but only" (or “yet so”) as through fire.” “He will be saved” in the Greek is “sothesetai” (which means eternal salvation). The phrase "but only" (or “yet so”) in the Greek is "houtos" which means "in the same manner." This means that man is both eternally rewarded and eternally saved in the same manner by fire.

1 Cor. 3:13 - when Paul writes about God revealing the quality of each man's work by fire and purifying him, this purification relates to his sins (not just his good works). Protestants, in attempting to disprove the reality of purgatory, argue that Paul was only writing about rewarding good works, and not punishing sins (because punishing and purifying a man from sins would be admitting that there is a purgatory).

1 Cor. 3:17 - but this verse proves that the purgation after death deals with punishing sin. That is, destroying God's temple is a bad work, which is a mortal sin, which leads to death. 1 Cor. 3:14,15,17 - purgatory thus reveals the state of righteousness (v.14), state of venial sin (v.15) and the state of mortal sin (v.17), all of which are judged after death.

1 Peter 1:6-7 - Peter refers to this purgatorial fire to test the fruits of our faith.

Jude 1:23 - the people who are saved are being snatched out of the fire. People are already saved if they are in heaven, and there is no possibility of salvation if they are in hell. These people are being led to heaven from purgatory.

Rev. 3:18-19 - Jesus refers to this fire as what refines into gold those He loves if they repent of their sins. This is in the context of after death because Jesus, speaking from heaven, awards the white garment of salvation after the purgation of fire (both after death).

Dan 12:10 - Daniel refers to this refining by saying many shall purify themselves, make themselves white and be refined.

Wis. 3:5-6 - the dead are disciplined and tested by fire to receive their heavenly reward. This is the fire of purgatory.

Sirach 2:5 - for gold is tested in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of humiliation.

Zech. 13:8-9 - God says 2/3 shall perish, and 1/3 shall be left alive, put into the fire, and refined like silver and tested like gold. The ones that perish go to hell, and there is no need for refinement in heaven, so those being refined are in purgatory.

Mal. 3:2-3 - also refers to God's purification of the righteous at their death.


17 posted on 01/30/2012 3:06:36 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: mporter345; Religion Moderator

I guess I should have included you on that part about calling Catholic “hitlers” — not OK at all.


18 posted on 01/30/2012 3:08:08 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: mporter345; RoadGumby
Remember that the Early Fathers of the Church were either taught by Christ or taught by the Apostles who were taught by Christ. So whatever you say against the Early Church Fathers -- you are basically saying about Christ and his teaching.

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html
 
II. Purification After Death By Fire

Heb. 12:29 - God is a consuming fire (of love in heaven, of purgation in purgatory, or of suffering and damnation in hell).

1 Cor. 3:10-15 - works are judged after death and tested by fire. Some works are lost, but the person is still saved. Paul is referring to the state of purgation called purgatory. The venial sins (bad works) that were committed are burned up after death, but the person is still brought to salvation. This state after death cannot be heaven (no one with venial sins is present) or hell (there is no forgiveness and salvation).

1 Cor. 3:15 – “if any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” The phrase for "suffer loss" in the Greek is "zemiothesetai." The root word is "zemioo" which also refers to punishment. The construction “zemiothesetai” is used in Ex. 21:22 and Prov. 19:19 which refers to punishment (from the Hebrew “anash” meaning “punish” or “penalty”). Hence, this verse proves that there is an expiation of temporal punishment after our death, but the person is still saved. This cannot mean heaven (there is no punishment in heaven) and this cannot mean hell (the possibility of expiation no longer exists and the person is not saved).

1 Cor. 3:15 – further, Paul writes “he himself will be saved, "but only" (or “yet so”) as through fire.” “He will be saved” in the Greek is “sothesetai” (which means eternal salvation). The phrase "but only" (or “yet so”) in the Greek is "houtos" which means "in the same manner." This means that man is both eternally rewarded and eternally saved in the same manner by fire.

1 Cor. 3:13 - when Paul writes about God revealing the quality of each man's work by fire and purifying him, this purification relates to his sins (not just his good works). Protestants, in attempting to disprove the reality of purgatory, argue that Paul was only writing about rewarding good works, and not punishing sins (because punishing and purifying a man from sins would be admitting that there is a purgatory).

1 Cor. 3:17 - but this verse proves that the purgation after death deals with punishing sin. That is, destroying God's temple is a bad work, which is a mortal sin, which leads to death. 1 Cor. 3:14,15,17 - purgatory thus reveals the state of righteousness (v.14), state of venial sin (v.15) and the state of mortal sin (v.17), all of which are judged after death.

1 Peter 1:6-7 - Peter refers to this purgatorial fire to test the fruits of our faith.

Jude 1:23 - the people who are saved are being snatched out of the fire. People are already saved if they are in heaven, and there is no possibility of salvation if they are in hell. These people are being led to heaven from purgatory.

Rev. 3:18-19 - Jesus refers to this fire as what refines into gold those He loves if they repent of their sins. This is in the context of after death because Jesus, speaking from heaven, awards the white garment of salvation after the purgation of fire (both after death).

Dan 12:10 - Daniel refers to this refining by saying many shall purify themselves, make themselves white and be refined.

Wis. 3:5-6 - the dead are disciplined and tested by fire to receive their heavenly reward. This is the fire of purgatory.

Sirach 2:5 - for gold is tested in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of humiliation.

Zech. 13:8-9 - God says 2/3 shall perish, and 1/3 shall be left alive, put into the fire, and refined like silver and tested like gold. The ones that perish go to hell, and there is no need for refinement in heaven, so those being refined are in purgatory.

Mal. 3:2-3 - also refers to God's purification of the righteous at their death.


19 posted on 01/30/2012 3:10:30 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

life’s a b-—ch then you go to purgatory.


20 posted on 01/30/2012 5:17:18 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (religion + guns = liberty.)
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To: mporter345
Extraordinary claims DEMANDS extraordinary evidence!

Jesus basically ignored the people who said that to Him.

21 posted on 01/30/2012 5:20:51 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (religion + guns = liberty.)
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To: Salvation

The other poster called Catholic leaders “Hitlers”. I was quoting his hateful comment in my reply.


22 posted on 01/30/2012 6:23:20 PM PST by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: RoadGumby
Well, yes, in the Good Thief's case. He had his Purgatory on the spot.

Most of us aren't crucified alongside Our Lord.

23 posted on 01/30/2012 6:33:41 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: LevinFan; All

Purgatory is much misunderstood. In the most simple terms, think of seeking forgiveness from another for a theft. In addition to their acceptence of your apology, you would also be expected to make recompense for your theft, the forgiveness is a gift, freely given by the one wronged, it is seperate from the recompense. A just man, even should his apology be refused, would still consider himself bound to the recompense.

Think of ourselves as the thief. We have all stolen from God and offended Him in our sin, this we all agree on.
We are offered forgiveness for all of our sins freely by our Saviour, but, that does not release us from the obligation of recompense, not if we truly are just. As Lewis put it so well, we would not WANT to walk in God’s sight knowing that there was payment due him.


24 posted on 01/30/2012 6:44:13 PM PST by LurkLongley (Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam-For the Greater Glory of God)
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To: mporter345
Where is this in your freaking Bible?

Primarily, 1 Cor 3:8-15, as many already explained to you.

Also my Bible is complete. Unlike yours. Is it why you call it "freaking"?

25 posted on 01/30/2012 6:52:00 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: mporter345

Do not use the terms “Hitler” or “Nazi” to describe another group of believers posting on the Religion Forum.


26 posted on 01/30/2012 8:44:37 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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