Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Frenchman, 71, Takes Catholic Church to Court After it Refuses to Nullify His Baptism
The Daily Mail (UK) ^ | 1/30/12

Posted on 01/31/2012 6:49:05 AM PST by marshmallow

An elderly French man is fighting to make a formal break with the Catholic Church, in a case that could have far-reaching effects.

Rene LeBouvier, 71, has taken the church to court over its refusal to let him nullify his baptism after losing his faith in the religion.

Though he was raised in a community where Catholicism dominated every walk of life, Rene changed his views in the 1970s after spending time with 'free thinkers'.

As he didn't believe in God anymore, the pensioner thought it would be more honest to leave the church and wrote to his diocese and asked to be un-baptised in 2000.

Ten years later, LeBouvier wanted to go further.

Paedophile scandals and the pope preaching against condoms in AIDS-racked Africa, helped strengthen LeBouvier's opposition to the religion.

He called the pope's position on Africa "criminal."

Again, he asked the church to strike him from baptism records, but when the priest told him it wasn't possible, he took the church to court.

French law states that citizens have the right to leave organisations if they wish and, last October, a judge in Normandy ruled in his favour.

However, the diocese has since appealed and the case is pending.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Theology
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-72 next last
To: ichabod1

I guess baptism leaving an “indelible mark” on your soul means nothing to him.


21 posted on 01/31/2012 7:50:16 AM PST by Carpe Cerevisi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change

Because the diocese shouldn’t have to play let’s pretend games. Unless they’re more fun let’s pretend games at least


22 posted on 01/31/2012 7:54:05 AM PST by Hegewisch Dupa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow

I can do it from here. Uh, you’re unbaptized. There you go Frenchie.


23 posted on 01/31/2012 7:54:13 AM PST by lp boonie (Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change

I guess that particular denomination looks at membership the same way the Bloods and Crips do.

Once you’re a member, you’re ALWAYS a member. No outs.


24 posted on 01/31/2012 7:54:16 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (Newt or else. What part of "Join or Die" don't you understand?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: GeronL

Makes you wonder, no? Insisting on humans nullifying something you’ve stated by your actions is a nullity. Sort of, “Hey, God! I don’t believe in You! Now let me go!”.

Hunh?


25 posted on 01/31/2012 7:57:28 AM PST by jagusafr ("We hold these truths to be self-evident...")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Hegewisch Dupa

The man is asking that he no longer be on record as a baptized Catholic (as is his right for his own reasons) so what’s with the “pretend” comment?

He won at court, he has a right to sever any connections with a particular group and the diocese is insisting no.

Seems pretty straight forward, now doesn’t it?


26 posted on 01/31/2012 8:02:29 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow

Europe is going broke, but the French Courts apparently have the time to entertain this nitwit. The extent to which the legal profession will debase itself is amazing. In a sane world the judge would have told him: “go away, the adults have serious matters to consider.”


27 posted on 01/31/2012 8:05:11 AM PST by ALPAPilot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change

No one has said he sever ties to any group here.


28 posted on 01/31/2012 8:05:36 AM PST by Hegewisch Dupa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Hegewisch Dupa

Well no one said “he sever ties to any group here” because it makes no grammatical sense. However, it’s more germane to add that no one said that the man can’t sever ties with whatever group he wants.


29 posted on 01/31/2012 8:09:17 AM PST by Hegewisch Dupa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: ichabod1
The Church will accept the baptisms of other denominations, as long as they believe in Jesus Christ as Lord.

I thought it had to be a Trinitarian baptism. Modalists need not apply.

30 posted on 01/31/2012 8:13:07 AM PST by Gamecock (I am so thankful for [the] active obedience of Christ. No hope without it. JGM)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: MrEdd
If he truly did not believe in God, the baptism would not matter to him.

Well put.
It really demonstrates how angry and hurt he was and is. There's no remedy for him in this world. He's made his choice. Only God can help and mend him.

31 posted on 01/31/2012 8:17:08 AM PST by cloudmountain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Jeff Chandler
Isn't the real conflict over whether he will be carried on the records as a member of the Catholic church or not?

Isn't that why Catholics don't want Mormons claiming dead Catholics have been baptized into the Mormon church?

32 posted on 01/31/2012 8:24:31 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change

Being baptized a Christian doesn’t make you a lifelong anything.


33 posted on 01/31/2012 8:28:57 AM PST by Hegewisch Dupa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

Beginning to sound that way.


34 posted on 01/31/2012 8:31:24 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow

This man can be, and I am sure already has been, removed from the parishioner roll. To insist that he be removed from the baptismal record is to foolishly attempt to rewrite history through court order. He was baptized, and no judge can change that without a time machine.


35 posted on 01/31/2012 8:31:42 AM PST by Ronaldus Magnus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow

I hope all the people who say they were baptized and formerly Catholics read this thread.

They are still Catholics — you don’t undo a baptism by your own will.

It is a church matter, not a civil matter, since a person is baptism “In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

That mark of a Catholic baptism is always with someone and they will have to account for their doings throughout life at the moment of their death.


36 posted on 01/31/2012 8:37:50 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ichabod1

Not all baptisms in my understanding.


37 posted on 01/31/2012 8:43:43 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change
Isn't the real conflict over whether he will be carried on the records as a member of the Catholic church or not?

No, he is asking to have his Baptism nullified. There is no process to accomplish this in the Church. A Baptism is an act—once a Baptism is performed, it cannot be unperformed. It is an historic fact.

It can be renounced by an individual, and there was until recently a process to do that, Formal act of defection from the Catholic Church.

I don't see how a governmental agency can require a religious organization to create a new judicial process, let alone falsify a record.

38 posted on 01/31/2012 8:45:07 AM PST by Jeff Chandler (Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Hegewisch Dupa

Then why not strike the fellow’s name? Put an X beside it and a note...what’s the big deal if he doesn’t want to be listed as a baptized Catholic anymore?

I wonder if France needs more atheist Catholics or what the reason is that his name can’t be removed or at least noted as no longer Catholic.


39 posted on 01/31/2012 8:49:12 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change
..what’s the big deal if he doesn’t want to be listed as a baptized Catholic anymore?

Because it would be a lie.

Is that clear enough?

"Want" is irrelevant to the discussion.

On a certain day and at a certain hour, water was poured over him and certain words were said.

The Church record attests to that fact. Nothing will ever change that fact.

I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in this issue. If the record of a baptism could be struck from the record, then why not a marriage? That would be nice wouldn't it?

"Your Honor, I want the Church to formally erase the record of my marriage!"

Uh-huh..........like that's going to happen.

40 posted on 01/31/2012 9:01:20 AM PST by marshmallow (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-72 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson