Skip to comments.Special report -Mormonism besieged by the modern age [Lds church is hemorrhaging in member losses]
Posted on 02/01/2012 4:50:21 AM PST by Colofornian
...A religious studies class late last year at Utah State University...was unusual for two reasons. The small group of students, faculty and faithful there to hear Mormon Elder Marlin Jensen were openly troubled about the future...asking hard questions. And Jensen was uncharacteristically frank...
Did the leaders...know that members are "leaving in droves?" a woman asked.
"We are aware," said Jensen, according to a tape recording of his unscripted remarks. "And I'm speaking of the 15 men that are above me in the hierarchy of the church."...
"My own daughter," he then added, "has come to me and said, 'Dad, why didn't you ever tell me that Joseph Smith was a polygamist?'..."Everything's out there for them to consume if they want to Google it."...
...census data from some foreign countries...show that the retention rate for their converts is as low as 25 percent. In the U.S., only about half of Mormons are active members of the church...
...the Web has intensified debate over...the history the church teaches.
Not since...the 1837 failure of a church bank in Kirtland, Ohio, have so many left the church, Jensen said.
"Maybe since Kirtland, we've never had a period of - I'll call it apostasy, like we're having now," he told the group in Logan.
...a non-practicing Mormon...for years filed away on a mental "shelf" concerns about the historical veracity of the religion's central text..."It came to a point where the shelf was too heavy," he said. He quit attending ..."Ok, I'm done."
"There have been discussions at LDS church headquarters about...Romney's presidential bid," a person briefed on the talks said. "One concern is that Romney's campaign could further energize evangelical antipathy toward the church..."
..."having a Mormon president could raise the church's profile and legitimize it in other countries."
(Excerpt) Read more at uk.reuters.com ...
Just the start of killing Romney. Wait til they really open up. And I’m NOT voting for him.
Not since...the 1837 failure of a church bank in Kirtland, Ohio, have so many left the church, Jensen said.
Joey Smith’s savings and loan bank scam..
Jensen said. “Maybe since Kirtland, we’ve never had a period of - I’ll call it apostasy, like we’re having now,” he told the group in Logan.
the universal apostasy has started
...”having a Mormon president could raise the church’s profile and legitimize it in other countries.”
Ya think Chavez and Putin will join ???
Could more Mormons be starting to see the light?
A good sign that maybe more Mormons are starting to come to faith in the REAL Christ.
Mormonism, as you know, is NOT Christian. Electing Mitt Romney will, I fear, bring a chastisement from God.
Pray the electorate wakes up to this fact before its too late & he is nominated.
The internet is having a greater impact on communication than did the invention of the printing press. It is what did Dan Rather in. It is what stopped Kerry in his tracks. It will do the same thing to false religions like Mormonism. As more and more Muslims in “free” countries use the internet it will do the same to them.
This is a Good Thing. Truth stands easily on its own. Lies take a lot of work, especially when communication is easy. It would be very hard, indeed, to bring a person into the mormon faith who has studied the claims of both mormonism and ex-mormons. The truth rings, well, true.
All anyone has to do is watch the South Park Mormon episode and it pretty much sums the whole thing up.
In an “every cloud has a silver lining” sort of way, I said that if the Romney candidacy is more serious this time, the good news is that mormonism will be exposed for what it is. It appears that is actually happening.
That is a Good Thing.
—All anyone has to do is watch the South Park Mormon episode and it pretty much sums the whole thing up.—
Yep, provided you trust the info. I tell people to watch that and then google it regarding accuracy. It’s pretty accurate, on the stuff that matters.
Unfortunately, Mormonism’s twisted notion of the divine causes many “exmo’s” to reject all religion and become atheistic.
I guess when you are hemorrhaging membership, shunning apostates isn’t as effective.
But there are those who do come to faith in the real Christ, cannot deny that either.
Even the Catholic Church WILL NOT accept the Mormon baptism and any Mormon who wants to become Catholic has to get baptized in the Catholic Church.
Lucy Harris smart, smart, smart. Martin Harris dumb.
The chastisement doesn't have to come from God. It will be having Obama for another four years. That's punishment enough.
It's the GOP's fault for not backing Santorum. He's the one who should be the GOP opponent of Obama. He won't be so we ALL lose. The Republicans of our great country prefer a Mormon candidate than a Catholic one. We reap what we sow.
The beatings will continue until morale improves, apparently.
One of the hidden problems besieging the Mormons has existed since their very beginning, and it’s a lulu. Secular politics.
Before their migration west, they were stuck in situations of varying hostility with non-Mormons over the years. Eventually Smith was approached with the demand that he order the Mormons to embrace one secular political party or the other.
He tried to do this to protect them, but could not deliver their vote as a bloc. And because there was no secret ballot until the 1880s, the end result was that both political parties turned on the Mormons. And politics back then was far meaner than it is today, to the point of violently persecuting political enemies.
Moving forward to today, there is still a huge political division among the Mormons, but since the 1960s, while there has been a general movement left by both parties, the Democrats have gone to the extreme left.
An extreme left that hates religion.
Just like other religions, though perhaps not as developed as in other religions, this may end up as a schism between conservatives and liberals, with liberal Mormons preferring leftist doctrines to those of their own church, yet still calling themselves Mormons, while trying to undermine their own church with corrupted doctrines.
The Mormons have been somewhat insulated from this for a while, because they have a very determined and orderly hierarchy. But eventually they are going to have to realize that many are “Mormons In Name Only”, at such variance with church doctrines that unless they are expelled they threaten the destruction of the church.
For their part, liberal and leftist Mormons will strive to achieve positions of power in the church, and leftists are skilled with infiltration into organizations with the idea of subversion to leftist goals.
“Will it be worse than the chastisement for electing a Muslin?”
Let me clarify my point: if Romney becomes the nominee, voters will be choosing between two anti-Christs. This, in no way, can be pleasing to God. My point is that we must shun Romney & put a Christian on the ticket. That’s why I said the electorate must wake up before it’s too late & Romney becomes our candidate. I hope & pray that Gingrich does indeed fight this all the way to the convention.
If he is, I will not vote. I know there are FReepers who think that’s ridiculous but I must vote my conscience. I will not support a Mormon who also embraces gay marraige & abortion on demand. No no no!!!!
Anyone who is wondering why Romney is being pushed by the Mormons needs to research the White Horse Prophecy. Beck, Hatch, and Romney buy into that evidenced by all three referencing the constitution hanging by a thread comment in that prophecy.
Had a friend of mine over the other night and we turned the episode on for him....(Romney supporter and Michigan State Republican committee guy) he was cracking up. First, he was a T Paw supporter......then that went south, and now he is a Romney guy. Sadly, he was on McCains national team last go-around and the Romney bots are not treating him well. We will see if he is pure enough to stay the course.
They already are and always have been, it is what mormonISM is. Romney is a liberal because of mormonISM not in spite of it.
We been killing the innocent since 1973.
We've not SEEN chastisement yet!
The Mormons would go into a town and vote in a bloc so they could take over the civic government and change it to their theocracy...
In 1844 when Joey Smith ran for POTUS he ran on a 3rd party ticket...
between two anti-Christs
My understanding from Christian end-of-world prophecy is there is only one anti-Christ. Maybe Romney is that White Horse anti-Christ I keep hearing about? How does the true anti-Christ arrive? Is the horse color really that important? Gingrich is Catholic. Does that still count as Christian? If I type “Are Catholics Christians?” in Google, I get tons of hits that say “No way.” Jesus wasn’t a Christian either. Wonder if he would get any votes?
Inquiring minds and all.
“There can be only one.” Highlander
I agree 100%
I'm wondering if there's a church of any denomination that doesn't have the letters, "LDS" in its name that does recognize mormon baptism?
I can hardly wait for their update on Black Liberation Theology.
That's the question it looks like we are all going to have to answer, doesn't it? America died in the 60s, and so far there has been no resurrection of the corpse. But we keep trying.
Do a get a copy of the Book of Mormon as my prize?
—On the other hand the internet seems to have had little influence in taking down Obama despite all the con man evidence that would have killed the candidacy of any other human being.—
We underestimated him during the election. Also, people have to want to bother to do the search. A small number of mormons will look at the data and turn from mormonism. A huge number of people “looking into becoming mormon” will stop dead in their tracks. This includes the children of mormons.
This can be used against Christianity and the bible as well, but with much less effect because the evidence for it’s veracity is so overwhelming. With mormonism, it is something the church would just as soon people don’t look at too closely.
Likewise with Obama. The internet has hurt him a great deal. Think where we would be if we had the same press we had in the 20th century. Problem is, people don’t dig as much into politics. Those that do are on sites like this.
I was a young Mormon girl and she introduced me to the lies of Mormonism too!
Just like the Shiite branch of Islam considers the Ayotallohas as living prophets. Sorry but no need for prophets after God himself became incarnate.
I must of missed those article on finding horse remains dating from the period of 600 BC to 1491 AD. Or I must when I went to the Mayan cities of Copan and Tikal those horse glyphs. I noticed the Jaguars, rabbits, etc but I must of missed the horses.
No Christian denomination I know of accepts Mormon baptism for the reason the Mormons do not accept the Trinity as stated in the Nicene Creed.
But I want to know...
What happened to the knowledge of the Wheel?
The origin of the wheel is unknown, but once it was invented, knowledge of the wheel spread rapidly throughout the Mediterranean and Asian world. Wheeled vehicles made the movement of goods much easier. The earliest known examples of wheels are from Mesopotamia and date from about 3500 to 3000 bc. The cart or wagon, pulled by humans or animals, was the first wheeled vehicle.
Lehi and his party obviously had knowledge of the wheel. The Book of Mormon uses the term chariot many times (and in many different time periods) which shows that the BOM peoples used the concept of the wheel. Some example of this are:
2 Ne. 12: 7
7 Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots.
Alma 18: 9
9 And they said unto him: Behold, he is feeding thy horses. Now the king had commanded his servants, previous to the time of the watering of their flocks, that they should prepare his horses and chariots, and conduct him forth to the land of Nephi; for there had been a great feast appointed at the land of Nephi, by the father of Lamoni, who was king over all the land.
Alma 18: 10
10 Now when king Lamoni heard that Ammon was preparing his horses and his chariots he was more astonished, because of the faithfulness of Ammon, saying: Surely there has not been any servant among all my servants that has been so faithful as this man; for even he doth remember all my commandments to execute them.
Alma 18: 12
12 And it came to pass that when Ammon had made ready the horses and the chariots for the king and his servants, he went in unto the king, and he saw that the countenance of the king was changed; therefore he was about to return out of his presence.
Alma 20: 6
6 Now when Lamoni had heard this he caused that his servants should make ready his horses and his chariots.
3 Ne. 3: 22
22 And it came to pass in the seventeenth year, in the latter end of the year, the proclamation of Lachoneus had gone forth throughout all the face of the land, and they had taken their horses, and their chariots, and their cattle, and all their flocks, and their herds, and their grain, and all their substance, and did march forth by thousands and by tens of thousands, until they had all gone forth to the place which had been appointed that they should gather themselves together, to defend themselves against their enemies.
3 Ne. 21: 14
14 Yea, wo be unto the Gentiles except they repent; for it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Father, that I will cut off thy horses out of the midst of thee, and I will destroy thy chariots;
So what happened to the wheel?
Archaeology says that wheels were not used for travel in Pre-Columbian America. The knowledge of the wheel for transportation may have been in existence but seems to be limited to the use in toys. If the Nephites and Lamanites used chariots, why wouldn’t this extremely valuable idea continue to be used by the descendants of the Ancient Americans?
If Lehi’s descendants did use a wheel, there would be evidence of wheels in the Americas before Columbus. Technology spreads quickly, especially an innovative one like the wheel.
Even the use of wheels in toys is suspect. Some LDS apologists have pointed to the discovery of wheeled toys left in tombs. However, several researchers, including W. H. Holmes of the Bureau of American Ethnology suspect that the toys were introduced into the tombs after the arrival of Europeans on the continent. He stated:
“Charnay obtained from an ancient cemetery at Tenenepanco, Mexico, a number of toy chariots of terra cotta, presumably buried with the body of a child, some of which retained their wheels. The possibility that these toys are of a post-discovery manufacture must be taken into account, especially since mention is made of the discovery of brass bells in the same cemetery with the toys.” (emphasis in original). Reference: wikipedia (on May 14, 2010)
I heard this report on “Heart of the Matter” last night. V
ery, very interesting.