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Priests Accused of Molesting Children Hiding in Plain Sight
NBC California ^ | 2/11/12 | Frank Snepp and Tara Kangarlou |

Posted on 02/11/2012 10:13:46 AM PST by RnMomof7

Some 200 Catholic priests suspected of sexual abuse are living undetected in communities across California, according to an attorney who represents hundreds of plaintiffs who sued the LA Archdiocese for molestation they say was inflicted on them by priests and clergy of the church.

Ray Boucher has mapped sixty locations where suspect priests live, in cities and towns from northern to southern California, and provided those locations to NBC4 exclusively.

“Many if not all these priests have admitted to sexual abuse,” Boucher said. “They live within a mile of 1,500 playgrounds, schools and daycare centers.”

Since none of the priests has actually been convicted of sex abuse, none can be identified under Megan’s Law, or their whereabouts revealed in related public databases.

“What the issue is here, is how you weigh the right of the people,” said Boucher, who is also one of the attorneys representing students in the Miramonte Elementary School sex abuse scandal. “In particular the right of children to be protected from molestation versus the right of privacy."

Among Boucher’s many clients in the church action are Manuel Vega and Dan Smith.

Vega is a former police officer from Oxnard who took special interest in sex crimes investigations because, he says, he was sexually abused as a teenager by his parish priest.

“He forced me to masturbate while he took pictures of me,” said Vega, who believes that the public is often too squeamish to recognize what child molestation actually entails – and thus not properly outraged by it.

“When we talk about sexual abuse we’re talking about sodomy,” he said. “There’s pubic hair, there’s sweat, there’re smells, there’re grunts.”

Dan Smith, another alleged abuse victim, is reeling from the recent collapse of his marriage which he blames in part on the psychological effects of the molestation he says he suffered as a child – at the hands of his local parish priest.

“He would rape me and then say this is what God’s love feels like,” Smith said, struggling to hold back tears more than twenty years after the alleged incidents.

Both men helped make legal history by joining 500 other plaintiffs in suing the LA Archdiocese for sexual molestation, with Boucher as their lead attorney.

In 2007 the LA Archdiocese reached an unprecedented $660 million settlement with many of the plaintiffs without admitting any wrong-doing.

It also agreed to let the courts decide which of the case-related church files should be made public, including those identifying alleged and admitted predators.

But according to Boucher and court documents, the Catholic Church has since engaged in a cover-up. By Boucher’s account, Church officials allowed priests suspected of sexually abusing children to retire, flee the country or hide in rehab clinics until the statute of limitations on prosecution ran out.

“What the church did is take these guys and send them off to facilities where they treat pedophile priests without ever alerting police,” Boucher said. “By enabling these priests to be hidden for so many years the church protected them from being prosecuted.”

Meanwhile legal disputes delayed the release of the promised personnel files, and Donald Steir, an attorney for several priests, went to court to argue that those who’ve been accused but no convicted should have their names and privacy protected.

“They are being punished as if they have been convicted, or at least that’s the desire – to punish them,” Steir said. “That’s not fair.”

“It’s difficult if you represent an alleged terrorist or a pedophile, because people don’t really care about the rights [including privacy rights] for these type of people,” Steir said. “But once we erode the rights of a group of people we don’t like, we effectively have started down a path where other people’s rights can be similarly denied.”

The courts, expressing concern for children, overruled most of these arguments and similar ones by the Archdiocese, which declined to comment for this story.

And a judge has ordered release of some personnel files, set for some time in the coming weeks. But he also credited the church for its increased sensitivity in dealing with molestation cases and decided to withhold the names of church officials who handled the earlier cases.

It is a ruling that reminds Boucher of the breakdown in accountability in the Penn state pedophile scandal. “Look at Penn State and see how important and significant it is when people in authority enable sexual abusers to continue,” Boucher said. “That underscores how significant it is to get these names out.”

Under the judge’s ruling the church can also keep secret, subject to further court review, the names of priests who have not been convicted and who have only one or two allegations against them or have allegations disputed by the church.

To Smith that seems like a formula for further cover-up by church officials.

“If their interests were to protect the kids, they would have released the documents,” Smith said. “As a parent not knowing who your neighbor is -- that is really scary.”

Many of these unidentified priests are included in Boucher’s location map.

“The danger” said Vega, “is that you have a person who has this sickness in them who is amongst the children.”

The plaintiffs in the church scandal are planning to appeal the latest rulings to assure broader disclosure of suspects’ names and locations. But Boucher warned this could take time, allowing suspects to keep their privacy protected, as well as their undetected presence in neighborhoods across California.


TOPICS: Activism; Catholic; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: abuse; calvinismisdead; catholic; predators; priests; sin; threebilliondollars
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To: E. Pluribus Unum; RnMomof7
When you find an example of Presbyterians or Methodists or Lutherans sending the offenders away, hiding them til the statues of limitations runs out...

What is a "statue of limitations," ignoramus?

What is a pedant, pedant?

151 posted on 02/13/2012 1:30:00 PM PST by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
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To: NakedRampage
>> My challenge; find a comment where a Catholic is defending a pedophile.<<

I have seen no statement by a Catholics to that affect nor have I said or intimated anything like that. I see Catholics defending the church for not taking stronger action against pedophiles. So why would I have to find a Catholic defending a pedophile? Are you simply trying to deflect or obfuscate?

152 posted on 02/13/2012 1:48:51 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: OLD REGGIE
So what is a "statue of limitations?"

Something you see when you look in the mirror?

153 posted on 02/13/2012 1:49:40 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the fascists.)
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To: RobbyS; CynicalBear
"I say that because the Church has been subjected to such close scrutiny that it amounts to persecutions in some cases. The prosector has even demanded an autopsy of a very aged Cardinal so as to rule out suicide/murder. This sort of fever is dangerous,.."

In another case a Pope had a long dead Pope dug up and tried for heresy. ^o)

This sort of fever is dangerous.

154 posted on 02/13/2012 1:57:20 PM PST by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
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To: CynicalBear

“I’ll repeat my challenge.

>> Find one comment by one Protestant who has ever said or intimated that child molestation by anyone is “perfectly fine”.<<”


155 posted on 02/13/2012 2:24:30 PM PST by NakedRampage (Puttin' the "stud" in Bible study)
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To: OLD REGGIE

Which pope was dug up and which pope had him dug up?


156 posted on 02/13/2012 2:27:21 PM PST by NakedRampage (Puttin' the "stud" in Bible study)
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To: NakedRampage
Which pope was dug up and which pope had him dug up?

Stephen VI did. Formosus was the Pope he had dug up.

157 posted on 02/13/2012 2:57:14 PM PST by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
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To: lupie
WHO you stick up for and complain about when they are accused is just a huge neon arrow that points at the god that you are serving. How many of us do that? Instead, we should realize, as Joseph did that God is in control of all things, working thing out for His good pleasure. And as Paul exhorts us - to be content in all circumstances. Be careful who (or Who) you defend. It speaks volumes.

Very well said! As Christians, we should be "above reproach" in all we do and we should avoid any "appearance of evil", especially those called to the ministry. When Jesus warned us of sure persecution from the world, he said that they would "say all manner of evil against you falsely" for His sake. It's supposed to be false, not true. Those who do such evil should face the consequences of their actions. The upright Christian should be on guard at all times, knowing that the evil one would love nothing better than to catch someone in a compromising situation. Be sure your sins will find you out, we are reminded. Ministers of the Gospel should be extra vigilant.

158 posted on 02/13/2012 4:23:20 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: presently no screen name
NOTHING TO UNDERSTAND beforehand! IT IS WHAT IT IS! God's Word IS The Final Authority. You conform to The Word, you don't conform God's Word to suite your understanding and/or agenda. You read His Word KNOWING that is the only TRUTH and everything else MUST conform to it! If it doesn't it's not from HIM! And don't assign it to HIM.

Think first, type later.
159 posted on 02/13/2012 5:52:23 PM PST by aruanan
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To: NakedRampage

Cute.


160 posted on 02/13/2012 6:06:39 PM PST by Theo (May Rome decrease and Christ increase.)
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To: OLD REGGIE; caww; smvoice; boatbums; HossB86; CynicalBear
No doubt you have viable documentation of the above. Patiently waiting........................................

Here, while you're waiting, have some popecorn.....


161 posted on 02/13/2012 7:23:35 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Theo

Cute?


162 posted on 02/13/2012 7:23:48 PM PST by NakedRampage (Puttin' the "stud" in Bible study)
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To: NakedRampage
Do not try to finesse the Religion Forum guidelines with the "pronoun removed" tactic.

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

163 posted on 02/13/2012 8:35:32 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: OLD REGGIE

You take my point, then. This sort of thing is strange. The person doing this is out to get someone.

A very old man, vague and frail, dies at age 88, probably from stress. And the prosecutor wants him exhumed to get evidence! Last night on Downtown Abbey the plot has a young woman suffering from the deadly Spanish Flu, suddenly relapsing and dying “of a broken heart,” from over hearing and seeing her fiance declaring his love for another woman,
Overdramatic,perhaps, but it does happen. A body compromised by age and/or disease, cannot stand much psychological shock. And with regard to the old Cardinal, even if nothing suspicious is FOUND, yet the prosector has managed to make the public suspicious. The aim being to try the Church in the court of public opinion.


164 posted on 02/13/2012 10:18:45 PM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: CynicalBear; metmom; RnMomof7
I was thinking about this a little more tonight and it hit me. So many want to brush off child molestation and rape as "we are all sinners" and "the church has chaff mixed in with the wheat" and "other clergy do bad things" and "even priests are imperfect sinners", blah, blah, blah. I'm thinking, you know this isn't like, oh, the Monsignor was a little irritated with the cleaning lady because she didn't iron his underwear like he likes it, so he sinned when he shouted at her and hurt her feelings. NO! THIS IS CHILD RAPE! How many people in the entire world ever would even THINK to do such a thing, much less carry it out - repeatedly?

You are quite right, CB, when you asked how the Catholic faithful can possibly brush off this condemnation with such platitudes. Yeah, we read where they have gotten angry that such things go on, but why has it not hit them square between the eyes that we are talking about supposed "men of God"? Could anyone imagine Peter or John or James or Paul excusing a follower or fellow Apostle who was guilty of such a horrendous crime? Would they have EVER allowed such a one into a position of leadership ever again? Forgive him? Yes, if he was sufficiently repentant, made it right as best he could with the child and the parents, AND demonstrated a genuine contrite heart and NEVER repeated such a vile act again. But would they have let him back as a church leader? I don't think so! A crime, a sin as grievous and vile as this permanently destroys a man's reputation, or at least it should, and he SHOULD spend time in prison if convicted. Paul reprimanded the Corinthians for not kicking out an adulterer, one who slept with his father's wife who wasn't ashamed of his acts and cease from them. How much more do we think he would have reacted if a Church leader was not only not kicked out from his position, but left in place or moved to another unsuspecting place to continue in depravity and ruin more young innocent lives?

Jesus said such a one would be better off having a millstone tied around his neck and cast into the sea than to harm his little ones. That alone should show that these kinds of sins are to be treated so much differently than other kinds. The Catholic Church is paying - and will continue to pay - a steep price for its complicity. And there is no excuse for what they did, NONE. As I said earlier in this thread, if they had done the right thing at the start, most of this damage could have been averted. I don't know if it was pride, fear of embarrassment, fear of publicity or what, but whatever the reason they have reaped what they have sown. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind. The wind was sown long ago, the whirlwind - sent by God, BTW - is only getting started.

165 posted on 02/13/2012 10:27:47 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: Religion Moderator

So I take it I may use the pronoun ‘you?’ instead?


166 posted on 02/14/2012 4:59:35 AM PST by NakedRampage (Puttin' the "stud" in Bible study)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Thanks for the ping. May Light expose all darkness everywhere and may Love redeem and restore victims and predators.


167 posted on 02/14/2012 5:27:59 AM PST by Joya (http://www.raptureready.com/)
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To: boatbums

Well said.


168 posted on 02/14/2012 6:45:41 AM PST by lupie
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To: ArrogantBustard

You wrote that “it seems that some protestants think that child molesting is perfectly fine ... if the molester happens to be a protestant.”

No. You are wrong.

Read for yourself the Protestant response to a Protetant leader caught in sexual sin, taking special notice of comment 6 (from me):

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2841532/posts

Nobody defends the man. Nobody tries to deflect. Universally, there is condemnation.

Here’s your starting place: Condemn sexual deviancy, even when it’s your leaders who are accused/guilty of it.


169 posted on 02/14/2012 6:51:43 AM PST by Theo (May Rome decrease and Christ increase.)
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To: Petrosius; Salvation; CynicalBear; Cronos; NakedRampage; ArrogantBustard

Again, when a Protestant is accused of pedophilia, or is found guilty of pedophilia, Protestants come right out and condemn such behavior. See my comment over here, for example:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2841532/posts?page=6#6

There I wrote, “Let me say, unequivocally, that if this man is indeed guilty then what he has done is damnable. It reflects badly on him, and it reflects badly on his church.”

On threads where Roman Catholic leaders are linked to pedophilia, I never see Roman Catholics simply come out so boldly against the accusations. Instead, they deflect the charges by implying that everyone’s doing it.

And this discussion is not about mere accusations, but about glossing over actual abuse (e.g., from the article: “Many if not all these priests have admitted to sexual abuse”).

Why, in God’s name, are Roman Catholics so slow at just coming out against abuse committed by some of their religious leaders, rather than primarily coming out in defense of their denomination?

Is Roman Catholicism so fragile that you can’t admit it has some terribly sinful leaders? If the structure is built upon priests, then that makes sense. But if it’s build on Christ, then you should be freer and quicker to condemn such egregious sin committed by some of your religious leaders.


170 posted on 02/14/2012 7:01:16 AM PST by Theo (May Rome decrease and Christ increase.)
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To: Theo
No. You are wrong.

I don't agree ... once again, read this thread.

Seriously.

Read it.

Count the number of posts from protestants objecting to the mention of protestant molesters.

What possible GOOD reason could there be for protestants to object to the mention of protestant molesters?

I answer: NONE. NONE at all. The only possible reasons for such objection are evil reasons.

Here’s your starting place:

Do not dare presume to lecture me on "starting places". I have been dealing with this problem since before it was "cool".

Condemn sexual deviancy, even when it’s your leaders who are accused/guilty of it.

Be sure to tell that to the protestants on this forum who object to the mention of protestant perverts.

171 posted on 02/14/2012 7:11:59 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Theo; Petrosius; Salvation; CynicalBear; Cronos; NakedRampage
Why, in God’s name, are Roman Catholics so slow at just coming out against abuse committed by some of their religious leaders,

1) Using God's Holy Name to support a false accusation is blasphemous.

2) Why are protestants so blind that they cannot see Catholics objecting to clerical misbehaviour?

Is Roman Catholicism so fragile that you can’t admit it has some terribly sinful leaders?

This question suggests abysmal ignorance and blindness so complete as to be almost inexplicable on the part of the questioner.

May protestantism decrease and Christ increase.

172 posted on 02/14/2012 7:18:17 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard; Theo

And still no condemnation of any Catholic for the acts.


173 posted on 02/14/2012 7:28:04 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear; Theo
And still no condemnation of any Catholic for the acts.

Spare me the smarm. I have been condemning child molestation of whatever sort for a decade on this forum, and longer in the real world.

May protestantism decrease and Christ increase.

174 posted on 02/14/2012 7:50:38 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Theo; smvoice; CynicalBear
I will say again for the nth time, name the individual priests and bishops who are guilty and I will join you in the condemnation. Rather what you are asking, and which I will not do, is that I condemn all Catholic priests and bishops as a group.

What Catholics here object to is the attempt to use the crimes of individuals to condemn the entire Catholic Church and the Catholic faith.

You are trying to play a clever word game with the statement: "Instead of damning pedophiles, Roman Catholics defend their priests" (Post #144). Not one Catholic here has defended a priest guilty of any crime. Indeed we want them weeded out more than you do. But we will not allow you to use the crimes of a small minority of priests how violate Catholic teaching to condemn the entire body of the priesthood.

It is clear from an number of postings that the real objection is the Catholic faith, not pedophilia, as the following postings clearly illustrate:

Thus the greater concern for Catholic priest violators than others. If the true concern were pedophilia then all those who so frequently post Catholic crimes would be as aggressive in posting those of non-Catholics. That they harp only on the offenses of Catholic priest shows that this is only a tool for another agenda: attacking the Catholic faith.

And lest I be accused of defending the crimes of Catholic priest guilty of pedophilia I will state that I find them disgusting. And so for the record:

I CONDEMN ALL THOSE INDIVIDUAL PRIEST OR BISHOPS WHO ARE GUILTY OF MOLESTING CHILDREN OR COVERING UP THESE CRIMES.

175 posted on 02/14/2012 8:03:44 AM PST by Petrosius
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To: NakedRampage
The pronoun "you" is not banned on the Religion Forum.

The guideline is to "discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal."

"Making it personal" includes reading the mind of another Freeper or attributing motives to him. It also includes making the thread "about" another Freeper, personally.

Basically, avoid ad hominems altogether. Discuss the message not the messenger.

If you are unsure whether your post is "making it personal" - examine your use of the pronoun "you" and either reword those sentences or remove them. But do not substitute another word or phrase for the "you" because that would still be "making it pesonal."

176 posted on 02/14/2012 8:06:50 AM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: Religion Moderator

Okay, now why don’t you address the posts of the other interested party.


177 posted on 02/14/2012 8:25:07 AM PST by NakedRampage (Puttin' the "stud" in Bible study)
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To: Petrosius; Theo; smvoice

Like it or not. The RCC puts itself in a position of being held to a higher standard and when they fail that standard they will be condemned commensurate with that higher standard.


178 posted on 02/14/2012 8:25:07 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
Condemn the guilty, not the innocent.

The Catholic Church never claims that priest are without sin by virtue of their ordination. They are called to holiness, as we are all, but are subject to the same temptations and sins as others. Priests too are called to repent of their sins and to go to Confession.

179 posted on 02/14/2012 8:43:11 AM PST by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius
The Christian church was commanded to remove the unrepentant and wicked men from among their company but this the Catholic church has been unwilling to do until public scandal and financial strangulation were threatened.

It appears the SOP of protecting molesters has become institutionalized and not just a few personal failings of judgment.

Shall I provide a vivid example?

180 posted on 02/14/2012 9:24:17 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: NakedRampage
Do you believe in the Holy Trinity?

I am aware that the Unitarian Church does not endorse the doctrine of the Trinity, but since you've added the caveat 'biblical' Unitarian inyour tagline, I wondered if you disagree with the mainline Unitarian doctrine.

I find no connection between this question and the subject at hand.

181 posted on 02/14/2012 9:33:43 AM PST by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
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To: count-your-change

I will admit that there have been bishops guilty of negligence and a cover-up. But this is because they themselves went against Catholic discipline. What no one seems to want to acknowledge is that the Church is in the process of cleaning itself up. If you were truly interested in stopping this abuse then you would be calling on priests and bishops to be more Catholic rather than using this as an opportunity to attack the Catholic faith.


182 posted on 02/14/2012 9:34:59 AM PST by Petrosius
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To: OLD REGGIE

There is no connection, really. I was just wondering.


183 posted on 02/14/2012 9:37:13 AM PST by NakedRampage (Puttin' the "stud" in Bible study)
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To: ArrogantBustard

So, you refuse to condemn sexual deviancy?

OK.

I, on the other hand, do condemn sexual deviancy, whether practiced by Protestants or Roman Catholics, or by anyone, for that matter.


184 posted on 02/14/2012 10:00:39 AM PST by Theo (May Rome decrease and Christ increase.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Regarding your point #1, I truly am asking in God’s name, for His sake, for His glory. No blasphemy intended, or committed.

And my premise — that Roman Catholics here at FR are slow at condemning sexual abuse committed by their leaders — is obvious, as demonstrated in this discussion.


185 posted on 02/14/2012 10:03:27 AM PST by Theo (May Rome decrease and Christ increase.)
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To: CynicalBear

Puzzling.

Their allegiance to their priesthood is cult-like. Even when certain priests are shown to be sexual predators, they refuse to condemn them.


186 posted on 02/14/2012 10:04:26 AM PST by Theo (May Rome decrease and Christ increase.)
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To: ArrogantBustard; CynicalBear

You wrote, “May protestantism decrease and Christ increase.”

YES! I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY! Yes, may Christ increase, and all else decrease. Let us together exalt Christ, at the expense of our particular denominations.


187 posted on 02/14/2012 10:05:45 AM PST by Theo (May Rome decrease and Christ increase.)
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To: Theo
>> YES! I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY! Yes, may Christ increase, and all else decrease. Let us together exalt Christ, at the expense of our particular denominations.<<

I agree. I wonder how many Catholics would renounce the Catholic Church?

188 posted on 02/14/2012 10:12:24 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Theo
So, you refuse to condemn sexual deviancy? ... OK

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

I accept your apology, and forgive you.

I hope, in the future, that this discussion can continue without folks making it personal. I am not the subject of discussion.

Regarding your point #1, I truly am asking in God’s name, for His sake, for His glory.

No, sir. The question posed in #170 asks Almighty, Holy God to bear witness to a question containing a false premise. Asking God's witness to a falsehood does not glorify Him, it horribly blasphemes Him.

And my premise — that Roman Catholics here at FR are slow at condemning sexual abuse committed by their leaders

That premise is false, and anyone who has been here since 1998 should know that it is false.

May protestantism decrease and Christ increase.

189 posted on 02/14/2012 10:13:26 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Petrosius; Salvation; CynicalBear

You wrote:

“Rather what you are asking, and which I will not do, is that I condemn all Catholic priests and bishops as a group.”

Nope. I’ve never said that.

I’m simply saying that it would be nice to hear a Roman Catholic vocalize opposition to those priests who commit sexual sins against those who are placed under their care. Instead of condemning pedophile priests, Roman Catholics’ first reaction is to defend their Church and its leadership, en masse.

Finally, I want to thank you for saying what I’ve never seen a Roman Catholic FReeper ever say before so clearly: “I CONDEMN ALL THOSE INDIVIDUAL PRIEST OR BISHOPS WHO ARE GUILTY OF MOLESTING CHILDREN OR COVERING UP THESE CRIMES.”

That should have been the first thing said in this discussion, instead of the multi-comment deflection that Salvation offered up.


190 posted on 02/14/2012 10:13:39 AM PST by Theo (May Rome decrease and Christ increase.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Huh? I’m not bearing false witness against you.

I had requested: “Condemn sexual deviancy, even when it’s your leaders who are accused/guilty of it.”

You refused, by saying: “Be sure to tell that to the protestants on this forum who object to the mention of protestant perverts.”

It’s as simple as that. I asked you to condemn sexual deviancy, and you refused to do so.

. . .

I see you wrote “May protestantism decrease and Christ increase” again. Thank you. All but Christ must decrease. If He be lifted up, He will draw all people to Himself.


191 posted on 02/14/2012 10:19:45 AM PST by Theo (May Rome decrease and Christ increase.)
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To: Petrosius

I’m not attacking the Catholic faith at all but rather the practice of the Catholic church. I could question the entire population of Vatican City and I’m certain not one person would speak in favor of child molestation, not one nor would any fail condemn such as against Catholic teaching.

Over the past thousand years many attempts have been made to “clean up” priestly morals. The edicts and pronouncements of Popes and councils don’t seem to have worked in the past as history so clearly records.

Since the Catholic church self describes as “Apostolic”, “Holy”, I should think Catholics would ask at what point God would say, “Enough! I’m done with you”.

Does such a point even exist?


192 posted on 02/14/2012 10:24:45 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Theo
I don't jump through hoops for you, bucko.

If you (yes, you personally) haven't seen me condemning sexual deviancy of various sorts on this forum, it's because YOU (yes, you personally) haven't been paying attention. That's your problem (yes, yours personally) not mine.

Now ... if you (yes, you personally) can refrain from making this discussion personal ... maybe it can be productive.

As long as you (yes, you personally) insist on trying to make it about me ...

I accept your apology, and I forgive you.

But I won't continue giving you the opportunity to continue offending.

May protestantism decrease and Christ increase.

193 posted on 02/14/2012 10:30:39 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard; Theo; All
All of you - stop making this thread "about" individual Freepers.

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

194 posted on 02/14/2012 10:46:43 AM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: ArrogantBustard; Religion Moderator

You’ve written “I accept your apology, and I forgive you” a couple of times.

I’ve never apologized to you, since I have nothing for which to apologize.

...

So, are you really trying to antagonize the Religion Moderators with your “YOU (yes, you personally)” thing? Seems kinda odd. I’ll let them figure it out.

...

Despite the antagonism I feel from you, I *do* find some solidarity with you, Mr. Arrogant: “May protestantism decrease and Christ increase.” Yes, may Christ increase at the expense of everything else.


195 posted on 02/14/2012 10:47:19 AM PST by Theo (May Rome decrease and Christ increase.)
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To: Theo
I’ve never apologized to you, since I have nothing for which to apologize.

Then we have nothing to discuss.

Good Day.

May protestantism decrease and Christ increase.

196 posted on 02/14/2012 10:50:00 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: count-your-change
Since the Catholic church self describes as “Apostolic”, “Holy”, I should think Catholics would ask at what point God would say, “Enough! I’m done with you”. Does such a point even exist?

He already did...at the Reformation.....and they've gone down hill ever since. The pediphile issue has always been among them...and why the cover-up for ages now. Of course they couldn't clean it out without depleating the Priesthood and it's the same today. Were they to act as they should against these Priests the Priesthood would fall...and the catholic church cannot stand without them.

197 posted on 02/14/2012 11:24:34 AM PST by caww
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To: Petrosius
If you were truly interested in stopping this abuse then you would be calling on priests and bishops to be more Catholic

That's the job of your leadership...and they've failed for eons now. The Popes answer to all the victims abuse was to declair the "Year of the Priest"....exaulting them once again before the very victims they abused. Requesting they be more "catholic" isn't working....as evidenced in still more and more stepping out as victims in 2011....thousands abused so one can easily be overwhelmed with the very numbers...and many journalists have left reporting about these as the nature and degree of abuse has been so difficult to take in.....that and the degree of cover-up by the leadership.

198 posted on 02/14/2012 11:32:23 AM PST by caww
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To: Theo
Finally, I want to thank you for saying what I’ve never seen a Roman Catholic FReeper ever say before so clearly…

Then I respectfully suggest that you have not been looking for I, as many other Catholics here, have repeatedly condemned these crimes. Nor, despite the claims by many, has any Catholic here ever condemned nor made light of these crimes. Rather, all protestations have been against attempts to imply that these crimes are typical of the priesthood and thus invalidate our faith.

If you can agree that it is only the particular individuals involved who are guilty and not the entire priesthood we can have peace.

If you really want to address the abuse of minors by priests then join with me in the call that they live their Catholic faith more faithfully rather than using it as an excuse to attack the Catholic faith.

199 posted on 02/14/2012 11:33:04 AM PST by Petrosius
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To: ArrogantBustard

For some it seems their religion consists primarily of condemning and renouncing the Church, who, what, why, everything else is secondary.

The Church has many enemies today, radical secularism in the form of the Obama regime is just the latest most visible. The Church is the focus of the attack because it is the strongest, oldest and most predominant force in Christianity.

It is disheartening to see some conservatives join these enemies, apparently unaware they are furthering the same goals with the same ends.


200 posted on 02/14/2012 11:40:09 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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