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American Catholicismís Pact With the Devil
Ricochet ^ | February 10, 2012 | Paul A. Rahe

Posted on 02/13/2012 11:48:10 AM PST by Petrosius

You have to hand it to Barack Obama. He has unmasked in the most thoroughgoing way the despotic propensities of the administrative entitlements state and of the Democratic Party. And now he has done something similar to the hierarchy of the American Catholic Church. At the prospect that institutions associated with the Catholic Church would be required to offer to their employees health insurance covering contraception and abortifacients, the bishops, priests, and nuns scream bloody murder. But they raise no objection at all to the fact that Catholic employers and corporations, large and small, owned wholly or partially by Roman Catholics will be required to do the same. The freedom of the church as an institution to distance itself from that which its doctrines decry as morally wrong is considered sacrosanct. The liberty of its members – not to mention the liberty belonging to the adherents of other Christian sects, to Jews, Muslims, and non-believers – to do the same they are perfectly willing to sacrifice.

This inattention to the liberties of others is doubly scandalous (and I use this poignant term in full knowledge of its meaning within the Catholic tradition) – for there was a time when the Catholic hierarchy knew better. There was a time when Roman Catholicism was the great defender not only of its own liberty but of that of others. There was a time when the prelates recognized that the liberty of the church to govern itself in light of its guiding principles was inseparable from the liberty of other corporate bodies and institutions to do the same.

MagnaCarta

I do not mean to say that the Roman Catholic Church was in the more distant past a staunch defender of religious liberty. That it was not. Within its sphere, the Church demanded full authority. It is only in recent years that Rome has come to be fully appreciative of the larger principle.

I mean that, in the course of defending its autonomy against the secular power, the Roman Catholic Church asserted the liberty of other corporate bodies and even, in some measure, the liberty of individuals. To see what I have in mind one need only examine Magna Carta, which begins with King John’s pledge that

the English Church shall be free, and shall have her rights entire, and her liberties inviolate; and we will that it be thus observed; which is apparent from this that the freedom of elections, which is reckoned most important and very essential to the English Church, we, of our pure and unconstrained will, did grant, and did by our charter confirm and did obtain the ratification of the same from our lord, Pope Innocent III, before the quarrel arose between us and our barons: and this we will observe, and our will is that it be observed in good faith by our heirs forever.

Only after making this promise, does the King go on to say, “We have also granted to all freemen of our kingdom, for us and our heirs forever, all the underwritten liberties, to be had and held by them and their heirs, of us and our heirs forever.” It is in this context that he affirms that “no scutage nor aid shall be imposed on our kingdom, unless by common counsel of our kingdom, except for ransoming our person, for making our eldest son a knight, and for once marrying our eldest daughter; and for these there shall not be levied more than a reasonable aid.” It is in this context that he pledges that “the city of London shall have all it ancient liberties and free customs, as well by land as by water; furthermore, we decree and grant that all other cities, boroughs, towns, and ports shall have all their liberties and free customs.” It is in this document that he promises that “no freemen shall be taken or imprisoned or disseised or exiled or in any way destroyed, nor will we go upon him nor send upon him, except by the lawful judgment of his peers or by the law of the land” and that “to no one will we sell, to no one will we refuse or delay, right or justice.”

One will not find such a document in eastern Christendom or in the sphere where Sunni Islam is prevalent. It is peculiar to Western Christendom – and it was made possible by the fact that, Christian West, church and state were not co-extensive and none of the various secular powers was able to exert its authority over the church. There was within each political community in the Christian West an imperium in imperio – a power independent of the state that had no desire to replace the state but was fiercely resistant to its own subordination and aware that it could not hope to retain its traditional liberties if it did not lend a hand in defending the traditional liberties of others.

I am not arguing that the Church fostered limited government in the Middle Ages and in the early modern period. In principle, the government that it fostered was unlimited in its scope. I am arguing, however, that the Church worked assiduously to hem in the authority of the Christian kings and that its success in this endeavor provided the foundation for the emergence of a parliamentary order. Indeed, I would go further. It was the Church that promoted the principles underpinning the emergence of parliaments. It did so by fostering the species of government that had emerged within the church itself. Given that the Church in the West made clerical celibacy one of its principal practices (whether it was honored in the breach or not), the hereditary principle could play no role in its governance. Inevitably, it resorted to elections. Monks elected abbots, the canons of cathedrals elected bishops, the college of cardinals elected the Pope.

The principle articulated in canon law  — the only law common to all of Western Europe — to explain why these practices were proper was lifted from the Roman law dealing with the governance of waterways: “Quod omnes tangit,” it read, “ab omnibus tractari debeat: That which touches all should be dealt with by all.” In pagan antiquity, this meant that those upstream could not take all of the water and that those downstream had a say in its allocation. It was this principle that the clergymen who served as royal administrators insinuated into the laws of the kingdoms and petty republics of Europe. It was used to justify communal self-government. It was used to justify the calling of parliaments. And it was used to justify the provisions for self-governance contained within the corporate charters issued to cities, boroughs, and, in time, colonies. On the eve of the American Revolution, you will find it cited by John Dickinson in The Letters of a Pennsylvania Farmer.

The quod omnes tangit principle was not the foundation of modern liberty, but it was its antecedent. And had there been no such antecedent, had kings not been hemmed in by the Church and its allies in this fashion, I very much doubt that there ever would have been a regime of limited government. In fact, had there not been a distinction both in theory and in fact between the secular and the spiritual authority, limited government would have been inconceivable.

JohnLocke

The Reformation weakened the Church. In Protestant lands, it tended to strengthen the secular power and to promote a monarchical absolutism unknown to the Middle Ages. Lutheranism and Anglicanism were, in effect, Caesaro-Papist. In Catholic lands, it caused the spiritual power to shelter itself behind the secular power and become, in many cases, an appendage of that power. But the Reformation and the religious strife to which it gave rise also posed to the secular power an almost insuperable problem – how to secure peace and domestic tranquility in a world marked by sectarian competition. Limited government – i. e., a government limited in its scope – was the solution ultimately found, and John Locke was its proponent.

In the nascent American republic, this principle was codified in its purest form in the First Amendment to the Constitution. But it had additional ramifications as well – for the government’s scope was limited also in other ways. There were other amendments that made up what we now call the Bill of Rights, and many of the states prefaced their constitutions with bills of rights or added them as appendices. These were all intended to limit the scope of the government. They were all designed to protect the right of individuals to life, liberty, the acquisition and possession of property, and the pursuit of happiness as these individuals understood happiness. Put simply, liberty of conscience was part of a larger package.

FrancesPerkins

This is what the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church forgot. In the 1930s, the majority of the  bishops, priests, and nuns sold their souls to the devil, and they did so with the best of intentions. In their concern for the suffering of those out of work and destitute, they wholeheartedly embraced the New Deal. They gloried in the fact that Franklin Delano Roosevelt made Frances Perkins – a devout Anglo-Catholic laywoman who belonged to the Episcopalian Church but retreated on occasion to a Catholic convent – Secretary of Labor and the first member of her sex to be awarded a cabinet post. And they welcomed Social Security – which was her handiwork. They did not stop to ponder whether public provision in this regard would subvert the moral principle that children are responsible for the well-being of their parents. They did not stop to consider whether this measure would reduce the incentives for procreation and nourish the temptation to think of sexual intercourse as an indoor sport. They did not stop to think.

In the process, the leaders of the American Catholic Church fell prey to a conceit that had long before ensnared a great many mainstream Protestants in the United States – the notion that public provision is somehow akin to charity – and so they fostered state paternalism and undermined what they professed to teach: that charity is an individual responsibility and that it is appropriate that the laity join together under the leadership of the Church to alleviate the suffering of the poor. In its place, they helped establish the Machiavellian principle that underpins modern liberalism – the notion that it is our Christian duty to confiscate other people’s money and redistribute it.

At every turn in American politics since that time, you will find the hierarchy assisting the Democratic Party and promoting the growth of the administrative entitlements state. At no point have its members evidenced any concern for sustaining limited government and protecting the rights of individuals. It did not cross the minds of these prelates that the liberty of conscience which they had grown to cherish is part of a larger package – that the paternalistic state, which recognizes no legitimate limits on its power and scope, that they had embraced would someday turn on the Church and seek to dictate whom it chose to teach its doctrines and how, more generally, it would conduct its affairs.

I would submit that the bishops, nuns, and priests now screaming bloody murder have gotten what they asked for. The weapon that Barack Obama has directed at the Church was fashioned to a considerable degree by Catholic churchmen. They welcomed Obamacare. They encouraged Senators and Congressmen who professed to be Catholics to vote for it.

I do not mean to say that I would prefer that the bishops, nuns, and priests sit down and shut up. Barack Obama has once again done the friends of liberty a favor by forcing the friends of the administrative entitlements state to contemplate what they have wrought. Whether those brought up on the heresy that public provision is akin to charity will prove capable of thinking through what they have done remains unclear. But there is now a chance that this will take place, and there was a time – long ago, to be sure, but for an institution with the longevity possessed by the Catholic Church long ago was just yesterday – when the Church played an honorable role in hemming in the authority of magistrates and in promoting not only its own liberty as an institution but that of others similarly intent on managing their own affairs as individuals and as members of subpolitical communities.

CardinalBernadin

In my lifetime, to my increasing regret, the Roman Catholic Church in the United States has lost much of its moral authority. It has done so largely because it has subordinated its teaching of Catholic moral doctrine to its ambitions regarding an expansion of the administrative entitlements state. In 1973, when the Supreme Court made its decision in Roe v. Wade, had the bishops, priests, and nuns screamed bloody murder and declared war, as they have recently done, the decision would have been reversed. Instead, under the leadership of Joseph Bernadin, the Cardinal-Archbishop of Chicago, they asserted that the social teaching of the Church was a “seamless garment,” and they treated abortion as one concern among many. Here is what Cardinal Bernadin said in the Gannon Lecture at Fordham University that he delivered in 1983:

Those who defend the right to life of the weakest among us must be equally visible in support of the quality of life of the powerless among us: the old and the young, the hungry and the homeless, the undocumented immigrant and the unemployed worker.

Consistency means that we cannot have it both ways. We cannot urge a compassionate society and vigorous public policy to protect the rights of the unborn and then argue that compassion and significant public programs on behalf of the needy undermine the moral fiber of the society or are beyond the proper scope of governmental responsibility.

This statement, which came to be taken as authoritative throughout the American Church, proved, as Joseph Sobran observed seven years ago, “to be nothing but a loophole for hypocritical Catholic politicians. If anything,” he added, "it has actually made it easier for them than for non-Catholics to give their effective support to legalized abortion – that is, it has allowed them to be inconsistent and unprincipled about the very issues that Cardinal Bernardin said demand consistency and principle.” In practice, this meant that, insofar as anyone pressed the case against Roe v. Wade, it was the laity.

I was reared a Catholic, wandered out of the Church, and stumbled back in more than thirteen years ago. I have been a regular attendee at mass since that time. I travel a great deal and frequently find myself in a diocese not my own. In these years, I have heard sermons articulating the case against abortion thrice – once in Louisiana at a mass said by the retired Archbishop there; once at the cathedral in Tulsa, Oklahoma; and two weeks ago in our parish in Hillsdale, Michigan. The truth is that the priests in the United States are far more likely to push the “social justice” agenda of the Church from the pulpit than to instruct the faithful in the evils of abortion.

And there is more. I have not once in those years heard the argument against contraception articulated from the pulpit, and I have not once heard the argument for chastity articulated. In the face of the sexual revolution, the bishops priests, and nuns of the American Church have by and large fallen silent. In effect, they have abandoned the moral teaching of the Roman Catholic Church in order to articulate a defense of the administrative entitlements state and its progressive expansion.

There is another dimension to the failure of the American Church in the face of the sexual revolution. As, by now, everyone knows, in the 1980s, when Cardinal Bernadin was the chief leader of the American Church and the man most closely consulted when the Vatican selected its bishops, it became evident to the American prelates that they had a problem – that, in many a diocese, there were priests of a homoerotic orientation who were sexual predators – pederasts inclined to take advantage of young boys. They could have faced up to the problem at that time; they could have turned in the malefactors to the secular authorities; they could have prevented their further contact with the young. Instead, almost certainly at the instigation of Cardinal Bernadin, they opted for another policy. They hushed everything up, sent the priests off for psychological counseling, and reassigned them to other parishes or even dioceses – where they continued to prey on young boys. In the same period, a number of the seminaries in which young men were trained for the priesthood became, in effect, brothels – and nothing was done about any of this until the newspapers broke the story and the lawsuits began.

There is, I would suggest, a connection between the heretical doctrine propagated by Cardinal Bernadin in the Gannon Lecture and the difficulties that the American Church now faces. Those who seek to create heaven on earth and who, to this end, subvert the liberty of others and embrace the administrative entitlements state will sooner or later become its victims.

SisterCarolKeehan

Earlier today, Barack Obama offered the hierarchy “a compromise.” Under its terms, insurance companies offering healthcare coverage will be required to provide contraception and abortifacients, but this will not be mentioned in the contracts signed by those who run Catholic institutions. This “compromise” is, of course, a farce. It embodies a distinction where there is, in fact, no difference. It is a snare and a delusion, and I am confident that the Catholic Left, which is still dominant within the Church, will embrace it – for it would allow the bishops, priests, and nuns to save face while, in fact, paying for the contraception and abortifacients that the insurance companies will be required to provide. As if on cue, Sister Carol Keehan, a prominent Obamacare supporter who heads the Catholic Health Association, immediately issued a statement in which she announced that she is “pleased and grateful that the religious liberty and conscience protection needs of so many ministries that serve our country were appreciated enough that an early resolution of this issue was accomplished.”

Perhaps, however, Barack Obama has shaken some members of the hierarchy from their dogmatic slumber. Perhaps, a few of them – or among younger priests some of their likely successors – have begun to recognize the logic inherent in the development of the administrative entitlements state. The proponents of Obamacare, with some consistency, pointed to Canada and to France as models. As anyone who has attended mass in Montreal or Paris can testify, the Church in both of these places is filled with empty pews. There is, in fact, not a single country in the social democratic sphere where either the Catholic Church or a Protestant Church is anything but moribund. This is by no means fortuitous. When entitlements stand in for charity and the Social Gospel is preached in place of the Word of God, heaven on earth becomes the end, and Christianity goes by the boards.

ArchbishopTimothyDolan

It took a terrible scandal and a host of lawsuits to get the American Church to rid itself of the pederast priests and clean up its seminaries. Perhaps the tyrannical ambitions of Barack Obama will occasion a rethinking of the social-justice agenda. The ball is now in the court of Archbishop Timothy Dolan of New York, who has welcomed the President's gesture without indicating whether it is adequate. Upon reflection, he can accept the fig leaf that President Obama has offered him. Or he can put Sister Keehan and her supporters in their place and fight. If he wants to regain an iota of the moral authority that the Church possessed before 1973, he will do the latter. The hour is late. Next time, the masters of the administrative entitlements state won’t even bother to offer the hierarchy a fig leaf. They know servility when they see it.

UPDATE: Friday night, shortly after I posted this piece, as Anne Coletta pointed out in Comment 5 below, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops issued a carefully worded statement critical of the fig leaf President Obama offered them. In the meantime, the Rev. John Jenkins, President of the University of Notre Dame, applauded "the willingness of the administration to work with religious organizations to find a solution acceptable to all parties."


TOPICS: Catholic; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: bhofascism; catholic; duplicate; nobama2012; obama; obamatruthfile
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1 posted on 02/13/2012 11:48:13 AM PST by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

Thank you for this post—I’ve tried to access it from the link and cannot.
Wonder if someone’s trying to block this....hmmmmm.


2 posted on 02/13/2012 11:51:26 AM PST by Mortrey (Impeach President Soros)
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To: Petrosius
devil
3 posted on 02/13/2012 11:55:34 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: Petrosius
An email I just sent to Rush Limbaugh regarding his reading of this on the air:

I never thought that you would be bamboozled into the old media trick of shifting blame, but oh how you have! So, it’s the Catholic Church’s fault that the Obama administration is compelling forced abortion/concentration on the nation? That’s rich!

Have many U.S. bishops fallen prey to liberalism in the last 50 or so years? Unfortunately, they have, as have too many Americans. Yet to posit that the Church is in bed with the modern Democrat party is a joke. The Church is the only worldwide entity that stands athwart their main pillars: abortion, gay marriage and euthanasia.

By the way, the Church’s main goal is not, as you have claimed, charity. It is the saving of souls...you can look it up.

As far as Pelosi, Biden, Kerry, etc., it is also the job of the Church to call sinners back to the Faith, not to drive them away. Do I wish the aforementioned politicians were publicly excommunicated? Sure, but according to Canon Law, they have already incurred what is called latae sententiae excommunicatio, which is the same sentence, but self-imposed. It doesn’t matter where they sit in Church or even at a Papal audience; their reception of the Sacraments is illicit and can only lead them into further sin.

The author of the piece you are reading should try and find a devout Catholic parish if he wishes to hear the Faith taught in the proper way; there are many, many in this country; even right here in the liberal Northeast. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem he has tried too hard.

Rush, the new leadership of the USCCB is very much anti-socialist, as has been the Universal Church worldwide. Before you read out an indictment against a fading breed of 1960s American bishops as representative of the Church, do some research please!

There are very many conservative Catholics in this country: just look to the SCOTUS or to the many recent converts to the faith among the conservative punditry or to two of the four remaining presidential candidates.

Please, don’t fall prey to the liberal media tactic of blaming the victims. The Church, going forward, may indeed lose many, many members who wear their Catholicism like a piece of clothing to be changed and discarded at a whim, but those of the true Faith will continue to uphold and defend it, come what may.

4 posted on 02/13/2012 11:56:45 AM PST by LisaFab
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To: Petrosius

Great article. Thanks for posting


5 posted on 02/13/2012 11:58:22 AM PST by ebersole
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To: LisaFab
Rush, the new leadership of the USCCB is very much anti-socialist...

Then explain this:

Statement of Most Reverend Gerald F. Kicanas Bishop of Tucson, Arizona

Vice-President, U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops Before

The House Subcommittee on Immigration, Citizenship, Refugees, Border Security, and International Law on

The Ethical Imperative for Reform of Our Immigration System

If you take the time to read the WHOLE statement you will notice how very much it sounds like a socialist manifesto.

6 posted on 02/13/2012 12:03:37 PM PST by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: Petrosius

bump for later


7 posted on 02/13/2012 12:04:57 PM PST by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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To: Petrosius
The screeching and knashing of teeth by the Bishops, nuns, priests,etc. was more than likely due to the fact that these cheap creeps no longer want to cover insurance for the flocks' employees.

They had to find some way to get the employees on ObamaCare without these dumb people catching on.

What better way?

Another thing... whole incident changed the national conversation for one or two days from economy/jobs to healthcare for the religious.

NOW, the Dems are trotting out vacuous Jackie Kennedy's papers ... like anyone cares about her anymore except the moonbats of Massachusetts.

8 posted on 02/13/2012 12:07:44 PM PST by xtinct (The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you..Be Strong Patriots!)
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To: Petrosius

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVN2MMuiedI&feature=related

(posted May 12, 2009!!!)


9 posted on 02/13/2012 12:14:26 PM PST by Mortrey (Impeach President Soros)
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To: LisaFab

I have a question. When the Catholic Church and Archbishop Dolan had their original negotiations with the dems and then supported obamacare, did they ONLY negotiate for themselves to the exclusion of all the rest of us who vehemently disagree with ALL of it?
And now it’s only Catholics who they think were betrayed? Didn’t they recognize the devil when they agreed to cover the Crucifix for obama to speak at Notre Dame?


10 posted on 02/13/2012 12:14:26 PM PST by MestaMachine (obama kills)
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To: raybbr
If charity toward immigrants constitutes socialism, then surely Ronald Reagan was the biggest socialist of all?

All modern popes have condemned socialism (as well as capitalism without conscience).

Pope Benedict has written:

“The State which would provide everything, absorbing everything into itself, would ultimately become a mere bureaucracy incapable of guaranteeing the very thing which the suffering person - every person - needs: namely, loving personal concern. We do not need a State which regulates and controls everything, but a State which, in accordance with the principle of subsidiarity, generously acknowledges and supports initiatives arising from the different social forces and combines spontaneity with closeness to those in need. … In the end, the claim that just social structures would make works of charity superfluous masks a materialist conception of man: the mistaken notion that man can live ‘by bread alone’ (Mt 4:4; cf. Dt 8:3) - a conviction that demeans man and ultimately disregards all that is specifically human.” (Encyclical Deus Caritas Est, December 25, 2005, n. 28)

11 posted on 02/13/2012 12:20:54 PM PST by LisaFab
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To: raybbr

It is such positions that caused Kicanas NOT to be elected head of the USCCB. As vice chairman, he was in line to be given the chairman seat. However, for the first time in many years, if at all, his position was not elevated. Dolan was made Chairman. The USCCB finally is in the hands of traditional Catholic Bishops such as Dolan of NY and Chaput of Philadelphia and quite a few others. Hopefully, it will stay in their control and continue moving back to supporting traditional Catholic positions.


12 posted on 02/13/2012 12:21:52 PM PST by CdMGuy
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To: raybbr

He is my bishop and I can’t stand him. He is right out of the Bernadin school of thought. last year I stood up in church and asked him wha the hospitals would do if they forced abortions on the catholic churches and he was mealy mouth and gave me a non-answer. Thank God Dolan was elected head of the USCCB and not him, talk about the right man at the right time. Catholics in Tucson do not like our bishop. We spend a lot of Sunday masses praying the “Migrant Prayer”. His just releasing his statement this Sunday at our Masses tells you how wishy washy he is.


13 posted on 02/13/2012 12:26:32 PM PST by Citizen Soldier ("You care far too much what is written and said about you." Axelrod to Obama 2006)
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To: Petrosius

Not quite as wordy but the same point.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2844361/posts


14 posted on 02/13/2012 12:28:19 PM PST by shoff (Vote Democratic it beats thinking!)
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To: Petrosius

Rush cited this article on his show today. Good job Rush!


15 posted on 02/13/2012 12:28:33 PM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: MestaMachine
I don't know about the negotiations, but as far as Notre Dame, et. al. are considered, perhaps you'd better read up on the Land O' Lakes statement of 1967. These schools haven't followed the teaching authority of the Church for 50 years.
16 posted on 02/13/2012 12:29:04 PM PST by LisaFab
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To: raybbr
California knows about immigration, and the left.

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17 posted on 02/13/2012 12:29:21 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: LisaFab

We need to make a distinction between the Catholic Church and the individual bishops who hold office from time to time. What the author is positing — and I support him — is that for the past 50 years the Catholic bishops in the U.S. have departed from true Catholic teaching to find a quick fix in Democrat politics. The body of the bishops, however, has a constantly changing membership. Today’s bishops are a different body than those of years past. It is to be hoped that today’s bishops wake up and reject the accommodation of their recent predecessors and return to the strong and vocal body that is their historical character.


18 posted on 02/13/2012 12:37:09 PM PST by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

I am a staunch Catholic and a defender of my faith. But there is so much I agree with in this article. I love my Church, and I believe it is the one true Church. But the Church is made up of mortal people who are corrupt. The Church as was founded by Jesus Christ is a strong entity that has survived centuries of many heresies, trials and tribulations. But the people who make up the Church are corrupting it. I have been very distressed how only one month a year is put aside for the murder of babies. Calendars are sold, bumper stickers are handed out. And look where it’s gotten us today. Abortion is so ingrained in our culture, that even Rush Limbaugh continues to use the term “pro-choice” on his radio show. Babies are still being slaughtered by the millions 39 years after the Roe v Wade ruling. Catholic politicians openly flaunt their debauchery by going to Holy Communion and the Church says nothing.

My husband used to run a crisis pregnancy clinic next door to a notorious abortion clinic. We had problems getting volunteers to work at the clinic. Access Pregnancy, which is the official pro-life clinic of the Archdiocese (supposedly) was only a few blocks away. We asked if we could send some of the women who we could talk away from the abortion clinic to them for counselling because we were short-handed. They said no. Our clinic, because of its proximity to the abortion clinic, was the target of much harrassment by the clinic “deathscorts” that were hired by the abortionist who owned the clinic. We were told that we would get no help from any of the Right to Life counselers because they didn’t want to risk being sued. So much for caring about the killing of babies and wanting to stop it.


19 posted on 02/13/2012 12:39:46 PM PST by murron (Proud Mom of a Marine Vet)
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To: Petrosius

I agree with your distinction. But from what I have seen from the current crop of bishops, I don’t hold out much hope for too many changes. When I see excommunications of pro-abortion, pro-homosexual Catholic in Name Only politicians, then I will hold out hope for a brighter tomorrow from the Church.


20 posted on 02/13/2012 12:43:51 PM PST by murron (Proud Mom of a Marine Vet)
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To: Petrosius
Agreed. There are many U.S. bishops who need to reflect on their true vocations.

But Rush reading this on his show today, and thus giving it a wider play, reminds me of the old 'Patrick Kennedy' defense: "that woman walked into the bar with me, ergo she deserved to be raped."

21 posted on 02/13/2012 12:45:04 PM PST by LisaFab
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To: murron
Our loyalty to our faith and the Church should not prevent us from criticizing those bishops who depart from being the strong shepherds they should be. On the contrary, fraternal correction requires it.

Sadly, since Vatican II we have seen many bishops that have lacked the courage to vocally defend the faith but have sought some sort of accommodation with the world instead. I am hopeful that we are witnessing the emergence of a new generation of bishops who will have the faith and courage to challenge the world and proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ without fear.

22 posted on 02/13/2012 12:50:09 PM PST by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius
I hope someone does an equally good article on how the majority of non-Catholic Christians voted democrat for the past sixty years right along with Catholics.
The South was so solidly democrat for so long that even now it's news worthy when a State Legislature stays in the hands of Republicans for more than a term or two.

It's all well and good to focus on the Catholic Church, and the Bishops who wanted to be a distinctly "American Catholic Church" did sell out, first to having their own version of Catholicism, and only afterward to liberal causes they thought would ingratiate them with the majority. And that majority was for sixty years solidly democrat no matter who managed to win a Presidential race.

Look around, there are Baptist, Methodist, Nondenominational, Lutheran, and all sorts of other flavors of non-Catholic "Christian" churches ordaining queers, marrying queers one to another, preaching that contraception is no big deal, and even that abortion isn't a problem. So, single out the Catholic Church all you like, their problem in this country was trying to keep up with a non-Catholic populace that decided Christ should follow them rather than their having to follow Christ. For the most part, Americans put self indulgence ahead of all else and revised their version of Christianity to fit with their indulgence.

That fundamental moral failing isn't due to the failure of the the Catholic Church or the non-Catholic Churches in this country, they all reacted poorly to the moral collapse, but they didn't lead it. The collapse of morality and moral leadership are the real real legacy of that bunch labeled, "The Greatest Generation" who taught their children and grand children that the greatest virtue was going along to get along.

JMHO

23 posted on 02/13/2012 12:50:18 PM PST by Rashputin (Obama stark, raving, mad, and even his security people know it.)
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To: Petrosius

Give us a list of people who we can rely on to speak for the Catholic Church. Apparently according to people like you their is none.

The only reason people listen to these guys is that they wear the red cape. And if they don’t speak FOR the church the certainly cloth themselves with the AUTHORITY of it when they speak.


24 posted on 02/13/2012 12:51:54 PM PST by DManA
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To: CdMGuy

Dolan and Chaput are indeed bright spots. But the newest Archbishop who was just appointed to the Diocese of New Orleans has always been a good ol’ boy with the heirarchy. He has never had a parish. He is in his mid 60s. Back in 1981 he was made a monsignor when he was only a priest for a few years. In that year many parish priests were made monsignors after being priests for many years and most of them had been pastors of their churches for a while. Yet he got the promotion right away. He has always worked directly for the Archdiocese, was made an auxiliary bishop for the Diocese of Austin Texas in the 1990s, and then Bishop a few years after that. Last year he was named Archbishop of his home town. He’s always been one of the insiders. He’s not about to rock the boat. In fact, he was pleased with 0s supposed reversal last week. IMO his soul has been sold to the devil many years ago.


25 posted on 02/13/2012 12:52:44 PM PST by murron (Proud Mom of a Marine Vet)
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To: Rashputin
The collapse of morality and moral leadership are the real real legacy of that bunch labeled, "The Greatest Generation" who taught their children and grand children that the greatest virtue was going along to get along.

Well said!

26 posted on 02/13/2012 12:52:48 PM PST by LisaFab
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To: Rashputin

THe Catholic church is being paid attention to because they are the ones making the noise. Not the Baptist, Methodist, Nondenominational, Lutheran, and all sorts of other flavors of non-Catholic “Christian” churches.

And you should apologize to the thread for putting scare quotes around the word Christian. I take that as an insult and a deliberate provocation.


27 posted on 02/13/2012 12:55:39 PM PST by DManA
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: LisaFab

Thou doest protest too much. Read a little Hayek. the catholic church has sided with social welfare - even now they side with illegal immigration - but those that have done it failed to see the logical conclusion that would be reached. Too bad.


30 posted on 02/13/2012 1:03:05 PM PST by statered ("And you know what I mean.")
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To: DManA
I think that you misunderstand the authority of bishops. They exercise an executive authority individually in their proper dioceses but their doctrinal authority is exercised infallibly only when they are gathered in an ecumenical council united with the pope. In their individual day to day teaching they are bound by the universal magisterium of the Church. This magisterium is easily recognizable in the universal ordinary teaching of the Church and in extraordinary declarations of the popes and ecumenical councils.

Remember that under King Henry VIII of England all the bishops, with the exception of St. John Fisher, made the ultimate accommodation with the state and broke with the Holy See, surrendering the church to the king. Catholics in their day would have been right to object to their actions and hold on to the true Catholic faith. Today we should be equally ready to call the bishops to proclaim and protect the true Catholic faith.

31 posted on 02/13/2012 1:03:18 PM PST by Petrosius
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To: statered

Please see my posts at #11, 16 and 21.


32 posted on 02/13/2012 1:13:52 PM PST by LisaFab
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To: Petrosius

Thank you. That’s been explained to me 50,000 times.

The Church supplies them with a penumbra of respect by making them powerful executives in the church. When they speak people listen. When they speak dangerous foolishness the Church should take the heat.


33 posted on 02/13/2012 1:18:43 PM PST by DManA
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To: Petrosius

bttt


34 posted on 02/13/2012 1:35:15 PM PST by Matchett-PI (There is no reasoning with anyone deeply indoctrinated into the tyranny of political correctness.)
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To: LisaFab; Rashputin

Post 17 is pretty much the story of voting in America.


35 posted on 02/13/2012 1:37:44 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: DManA
The Church supplies them with a penumbra of respect by making them powerful executives in the church.

They're not "executives". They're shepherds who are the successors of the Apostles. That's the source of their "respect". Their mission is to preach the Gospel and guard its integrity.

Since Apostolic times, however, the Church has had to live with and deal with Caesar as a part of its day-to-day existence. Temporal matters, IOW. A prudential judgment on the best way to do this does not form part of the deposit of faith and often varies from bishop to bishop.

When they speak people listen.

When they speak about the Gospel and exercise their apostolic authority, Catholics should listen. Many don't.

When they speak dangerous foolishness the Church should take the heat.

No, the bishop takes the heat. He is the one who decided to climb into bed with Caesar. He made a personal prudential judgment and judged badly.

In any event, The Church is always "taking the heat" from someone for something. Temporal and spiritual.

36 posted on 02/13/2012 1:54:35 PM PST by marshmallow (.)
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To: marshmallow

Every time the Church has meddled in temporal matters is has been a disaster. Maybe God is trying to tell them something.


37 posted on 02/13/2012 1:57:19 PM PST by DManA
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To: DManA
The Church has to "meddle in temporal matters". It lives in time. It owns property. It has employees.

Moreover, even if the Church somehow found a way to not have to "meddle in temporal matters", history teaches us that Caesar will always be interested in meddling with the Church, for the simple reason that the Church's message is often incompatible with Caesar's message.

Caesar can't be ignored.

38 posted on 02/13/2012 2:12:14 PM PST by marshmallow (.)
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To: MestaMachine; onyx; penelopesire; maggief; hoosiermama; SE Mom; Liz; rodguy911; Fred Nerks; ...

It’s SO sickeningly true mesta, and the more I consider what goes for a homily in my Catholic church and others I visit for Mass for years, compounded by this breathtakingly articulate article that crystallizes all I’ve been so conflicted by, the more I see the stark, raw truth in print.

The Church should’ve NEVER been so weak on O’care initially, and now .. the big foot is in the door .. God help us. They made a deal with the devil.

There’s no courage, no spine or resolve .. it’s all been bent and twisted.

They have fallen into the devil’s trap and been co-opted into confusing Judeo Christian compassion and outreach and conflated it with handouts and dependency on the government dole, instead of from the charity and generosity of the citizens.

I’m sickened, heartbroken by this .. even as yesterday, I asked a priest after Mass why the important letter on the current subject wasn’t read or even referenced from the pulpit. I was dismissively told .. twice when I persisted .. that it’s in the bulletin, and they were given a choice to read it or put it in the bulletin.

God help me, they are cowards and appeasers~! I pray the Christian clergy, Orthodox rabbis and other religious are graced and inflamed with the courage this debacle and heresy demands of them now.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Important excerpt:

This is what the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church forgot. In the 1930s, the majority of the bishops, priests, and nuns sold their souls to the devil, and they did so with the best of intentions.

In their concern for the suffering of those out of work and destitute, they wholeheartedly embraced the New Deal. They gloried in the fact that Franklin Delano Roosevelt made Frances Perkins – a devout Anglo-Catholic laywoman who belonged to the Episcopalian Church but retreated on occasion to a Catholic convent – Secretary of Labor and the first member of her sex to be awarded a cabinet post.

And they welcomed Social Security – which was her handiwork. They did not stop to ponder whether public provision in this regard would subvert the moral principle that children are responsible for the well-being of their parents.

They did not stop to consider whether this measure would reduce the incentives for procreation and nourish the temptation to think of sexual intercourse as an indoor sport. They did not stop to think.

In the process, the leaders of the American Catholic Church fell prey to a conceit that had long before ensnared a great many mainstream Protestants in the United States – the notion that public provision is somehow akin to charity – and so they fostered state paternalism and undermined what they professed to teach: that charity is an individual responsibility and that it is appropriate that the laity join together under the leadership of the Church to alleviate the suffering of the poor.

In its place, they helped establish the Machiavellian principle that underpins modern liberalism – the notion that it is our Christian duty to confiscate other people’s money and redistribute it.

At every turn in American politics since that time, you will find the hierarchy assisting the Democratic Party and promoting the growth of the administrative entitlements state. At no point have its members evidenced any concern for sustaining limited government and protecting the rights of individuals.

It did not cross the minds of these prelates that the liberty of conscience which they had grown to cherish is part of a larger package – that the paternalistic state, which recognizes no legitimate limits on its power and scope, that they had embraced would someday turn on the Church and seek to dictate whom it chose to teach its doctrines and how, more generally, it would conduct its affairs.

I would submit that the bishops, nuns, and priests now screaming bloody murder have gotten what they asked for. The weapon that Barack Obama has directed at the Church was fashioned to a considerable degree by Catholic churchmen. They welcomed Obamacare. They encouraged Senators and Congressmen who professed to be Catholics to vote for it.

I do not mean to say that I would prefer that the bishops, nuns, and priests sit down and shut up. Barack Obama has once again done the friends of liberty a favor by forcing the friends of the administrative entitlements state to contemplate what they have wrought.

Whether those brought up on the heresy that public provision is akin to charity will prove capable of thinking through what they have done remains unclear. But there is now a chance that this will take place, and there was a time – long ago, to be sure, but for an institution with the longevity possessed by the Catholic Church long ago was just yesterday – when the Church played an honorable role in hemming in the authority of magistrates and in promoting not only its own liberty as an institution but that of others similarly intent on managing their own affairs as individuals and as members of subpolitical communities.

In my lifetime, to my increasing regret, the Roman Catholic Church in the United States has lost much of its moral authority. It has done so largely because it has subordinated its teaching of Catholic moral doctrine to its ambitions regarding an expansion of the administrative entitlements state.

In 1973, when the Supreme Court made its decision in Roe v. Wade, had the bishops, priests, and nuns screamed bloody murder and declared war, as they have recently done, the decision would have been reversed.

Instead, under the leadership of Joseph Bernadin, the Cardinal-Archbishop of Chicago, they asserted that the social teaching of the Church was a “seamless garment,” and they treated abortion as one concern among many. Here is what Cardinal Bernadin said in the Gannon Lecture at Fordham University that he delivered in 1983:

Those who defend the right to life of the weakest among us must be equally visible in support of the quality of life of the powerless among us: the old and the young, the hungry and the homeless, the undocumented immigrant and the unemployed worker.

Consistency means that we cannot have it both ways. We cannot urge a compassionate society and vigorous public policy to protect the rights of the unborn and then argue that compassion and significant public programs on behalf of the needy undermine the moral fiber of the society or are beyond the proper scope of governmental responsibility.

This statement, which came to be taken as authoritative throughout the American Church, proved, as Joseph Sobran observed seven years ago, “to be nothing but a loophole for hypocritical Catholic politicians. If anything,” he added, “it has actually made it easier for them than for non-Catholics to give their effective support to legalized abortion – that is, it has allowed them to be inconsistent and unprincipled about the very issues that Cardinal Bernardin said demand consistency and principle.” In practice, this meant that, insofar as anyone pressed the case against Roe v. Wade, it was the laity.

I was reared a Catholic, wandered out of the Church, and stumbled back in more than thirteen years ago. I have been a regular attendee at mass since that time. I travel a great deal and frequently find myself in a diocese not my own.

In these years, I have heard sermons articulating the case against abortion thrice – once in Louisiana at a mass said by the retired Archbishop there; once at the cathedral in Tulsa, Oklahoma; and two weeks ago in our parish in Hillsdale, Michigan.

The truth is that the priests in the United States are far more likely to push the “social justice” agenda of the Church from the pulpit than to instruct the faithful in the evils of abortion.

And there is more. I have not once in those years heard the argument against contraception articulated from the pulpit, and I have not once heard the argument for chastity articulated. In the face of the sexual revolution, the bishops priests, and nuns of the American Church have by and large fallen silent.

In effect, they have abandoned the moral teaching of the Roman Catholic Church in order to articulate a defense of the administrative entitlements state and its progressive expansion.

*snip*

Earlier today, Barack Obama offered the hierarchy “a compromise.” Under its terms, insurance companies offering healthcare coverage will be required to provide contraception and abortifacients, but this will not be mentioned in the contracts signed by those who run Catholic institutions.

This “compromise” is, of course, a farce. It embodies a distinction where there is, in fact, no difference. It is a snare and a delusion, and I am confident that the Catholic Left, which is still dominant within the Church, will embrace it – for it would allow the bishops, priests, and nuns to save face while, in fact, paying for the contraception and abortifacients that the insurance companies will be required to provide.

As if on cue, Sister Carol Keehan, a prominent Obamacare supporter who heads the Catholic Health Association, immediately issued a statement in which she announced that she is “pleased and grateful that the religious liberty and conscience protection needs of so many ministries that serve our country were appreciated enough that an early resolution of this issue was accomplished.”

Perhaps, however, Barack Obama has shaken some members of the hierarchy from their dogmatic slumber. Perhaps, a few of them – or among younger priests some of their likely successors – have begun to recognize the logic inherent in the development of the administrative entitlements state. The proponents of Obamacare, with some consistency, pointed to Canada and to France as models.

As anyone who has attended Mass in Montreal or Paris can testify, the Church in both of these places is filled with empty pews. There is, in fact, not a single country in the social democratic sphere where either the Catholic Church or a Protestant Church is anything but moribund. This is by no means fortuitous.

When entitlements stand in for charity and the Social Gospel is preached in place of the Word of God, heaven on earth becomes the end, and Christianity goes by the boards.

It took a terrible scandal and a host of lawsuits to get the American Church to rid itself of the pederast priests and clean up its seminaries. Perhaps the tyrannical ambitions of Barack Obama will occasion a rethinking of the social-justice agenda. The ball is now in the court of Archbishop Timothy Dolan of New York, who has welcomed the President’s gesture without indicating whether it is adequate.

Upon reflection, he can accept the fig leaf that President Obama has offered him. Or he can put Sister Keehan and her supporters in their place and fight. If he wants to regain an iota of the moral authority that the Church possessed before 1973, he will do the latter.

The hour is late. Next time, the masters of the administrative entitlements state won’t even bother to offer the hierarchy a fig leaf. They know servility when they see it.

http://ricochet.com/main-feed/American-Catholicism-s-Pact-With-the-Devil/%28page%29/4


39 posted on 02/13/2012 2:13:48 PM PST by STARWISE (The overlords are in place .. we are a nation under siege .. pray, go Galt & hunker down)
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Comment #40 Removed by Moderator

To: STARWISE

Wow. I am stunned at your honesty here. Just wow. I must read your post slowly and carefully, there is just so much information there. God Bless


41 posted on 02/13/2012 2:28:07 PM PST by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing are for an eternity..)
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To: smvoice

It is the sickening truth.
With total faith and fidelity to God,
I have to admit it’s more than abundantly
clear the Church is failing the flock.
I pray for us all.


42 posted on 02/13/2012 3:11:27 PM PST by STARWISE (The overlords are in place .. we are a nation under siege .. pray, go Galt & hunker down)
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To: STARWISE
With all respect; the Church is not failing the flock...it is the flock and some of its shepards who are failing. If those who call themselves Catholic would form their conscience around the true articles of the Faith, men like Obama would have never gained the White House.

The Church will never fail; it will indeed prevail against even the gates of Hell.

43 posted on 02/13/2012 3:15:29 PM PST by LisaFab
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To: Petrosius

I truly believe that Bernardin and his boys tried to destroy the Catholic Church, perhaps, unwittingly. But were they Freemasons, and did this all come from inside the church?

PS. Receive the Eucharist on your tongue, never in your hands — the hand thing was an idea of the Freemasons to steal hosts!


44 posted on 02/13/2012 3:29:29 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: MestaMachine

The Bishops didn’t even want Obama elected. What are you talking about here.


45 posted on 02/13/2012 3:32:29 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: CdMGuy

The Bernardin bishops are still numerous. Can’t expect more than lip-service in the fight against Obama care. What could the USCCB been thinking when it agree to deal with the likes of Kathleen Gilligan? Chaput was once a Democrat but has seen the light., so he will use stronger language than Dolan.


46 posted on 02/13/2012 11:10:05 PM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: STARWISE
In 1973, when the Supreme Court made its decision in Roe v. Wade, had the bishops, priests, and nuns screamed bloody murder and declared war, as they have recently done, the decision would have been reversed.

I think you do not remember what the situation was in 1973. The bishops did speak out--and were ignored. The Nixon administration dis nothing to amerliorate the situation; on the contrary, he took measures to expedite matters, ala Romney in Mass. though he did speak out publicly against it. Ford was very pro-choice, and the Catholic pols of both parties immediately rolled over.

47 posted on 02/13/2012 11:19:07 PM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: DManA
If anyone should apologize it should be those to get upset when liars who call themselves Christian are called "Christian".
Any church knowingly ordaining queers as pastors is no longer a Christian Church but instead, a "Christian" church. That is, one that calls itself Christian and very much is not Christian.

And what are "scare" quotes? Another one of those politically correct whines they teach children these days? No one who goes to a church that is knowingly ordaining queers and marrying queers one to another is always right and in addition, such folks are seldom even Christian. At best, they're deluded and more often than not they're just run of the mill hypocrites.

Here's a "scare" quote for you, anyone who agrees that queers should be ordained by a church calling itself Christian doesn't know what the word Christian means.

48 posted on 02/14/2012 12:29:34 AM PST by Rashputin (Obama stark, raving, mad, and even his security people know it.)
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To: LisaFab

I understand what you’re saying. I’m just
describing my utter stunned heartbreak and
outrage from personal experiences I’ve had
with several priests over the last 5 years.
They are, after all, our closest connections
on earth to the Church. They’re supposed to
be our faith leaders .. and I know they’re flawed
humans as we all are.

And though there are many, and I know some who
are clearly devout, resolved, with total fidelity
to the faith that’s very tangibly demonstrated
in their words and actions, those pastors who
obviously show weakness and lack courage have
discouraged me tremendously.

For example, 2 weeks ago, a wonderful, very
actively pro life young priest and I were
talking after Mass just after this dictate
appeared. We were both so upset. He told me:
make sure you come to my Mass next Sunday ..
I’ll be hitting this hard.

So, I was relieved and made plans to attend
his specific Mass, awaiting with prayer his
strong message to the congregation. I even
went up to him before Mass to tell him I was
praying for him .. to inspire the parishioners
with courage, that this is war.

And do you know ... he must’ve shriveled a bit
inside, as he didn’t even give the homily, and
he sure knew it at the time. The deacon gave a
totally inane, wandering sermon about a generic
topic.

After I saw the pastor at the end of the Mass
and asked what I described and was treated to a
brick wall, it was clear that this devoted young
priest had been silenced. Poor guy. How must
he look at the Church hierachy when he lives
with such devotion and fidelity to the Church’s
principles and theology, yet he’s muted by his
superior? What a letdown for him. I’m very
very let down and depressed by all of this.

God have mercy on us .. bless and protect us all.


49 posted on 02/14/2012 12:44:55 PM PST by STARWISE
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To: LisaFab
If charity toward immigrants constitutes socialism, then surely Ronald Reagan was the biggest socialist of all?

RR talked a good game but his record is spotty at best. His amnesty was supposed to be a quick fix but instead turned into a virtual invasion by a foreign army. Government is not/should not and can not be in the business of charity. The result is that illegals were granted special rights by way of exemption from the law.

The CCC Paragraph # 2241: Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens

50 posted on 02/14/2012 7:14:00 PM PST by TradicalRC (Conservatism is primarily a Christian movement.))
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