Skip to comments.Why does the LDS church try to claim that they are the only ones who can be called "Mormons”?
Posted on 02/13/2012 1:48:04 PM PST by Colofornian
The two groups with more than a few members are the FLDS (see Are members of the FLDS church mormons?) and the Community of Christ (formerly known as the Reformed Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.) The Salt Lake based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has 14M members, and the second largest of such groups has at most 40,000 members.
Historically...the other groups are all splinters from from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints...
It is also reasonably argued that mormon should be allowed as a genericized noun. There are many famous cases of proper names becoming genericized over the years, i.e. few of us mean Band Aid brand of bandages when we say Band Aid. Likewise, it is often argued that anyone who believes in the veracity of the Book of Mormon, or at some point splintered off a religion that believes in the Book of Mormon, should be able to self-identify as Mormons.
...the second largest group in this discussion, the FLDS church, may be as high as 40,000. However, to scale, there are about as many LDS members in the US as Jews in the US, and about as many FLDS as Orthodox Jews. If were arguing solely on numbers or ratios, would it therefore be appropriate to say Orthodox Jews arent real?...I think the main differences are that the LDS church is centralized, and the FLDS teachings are distinct. Orthodox Judaism is generally seen as really strict Judaism, not as apostate Judaism. Polygamist Mormons and those who marry child brides, those who dont believe Joseph Smith saw God, those who dont believe in the Book of Mormon anymore, etc. are seen as having left the most central doctrines to what any reader of this post would consider Mormonism.
(Excerpt) Read more at colinjensen.com ...
Wait a minute. Who splintered from Mormon-'scripturally' orthodox Mormonism -- as can still be found as current LDS "doctrine" found in Mormon "scripture" -- Doctrine & Covenants 132? The mainstream Mormons departed from D&C 132...not the other way around!
From the article: ...it is often argued that anyone who believes in the veracity of the Book of Mormon, or at some point splintered off a religion that believes in the Book of Mormon, should be able to self-identify as Mormons.
Well, hey, Mormons keep claiming that anyone adhering to a few things in the Bible are to be labeled "Christian" -- so what other conclusion can be offered here?...oh, yeah, the hypocritical conclusion as offered up by Mormon "prophet" Gordon B. Hinkley:
Hinckley quote #1: There is no such thing as a Mormon Fundamentalist. It is a contradiction to use the two words together. Source: Ensign, Nov. 1998
Hinckley quote #2: Sept. 8, 1998 airing of Larry King Live show:
KING: But when the word [polygamy] is mentioned, when you hear the word, you think Mormon, right?
HINCKLEY: You do it mistakenly. They have no connection to us whatsoever. They don't belong to the church. There are actually no Mormon fundamentalists.
So...what do Mormons do? Take their second-to-the-last "prophet" at his word? Consider him a liar & a false "prophet" on this matter? Claim to rule the roost on who can be a Mormon and who can't...while also being able to control who can be a Christian and who can't?
From the article: ...the second largest group in this discussion, the FLDS church, may be as high as 40,000. However, to scale, there are about as many LDS members in the US as Jews in the US, and about as many FLDS as Orthodox Jews. If were arguing solely on numbers or ratios, would it therefore be appropriate to say Orthodox Jews arent real?
Re the above bold-faced question...good question!!!
Well, huh. And here I thought they were Egyptian. I mean, wasn’t the BOM written in Egyptian and Chaldiac and those other characters?
the flds really are the true mormons, they have stuck with the original Joseph Smith teachings, it is the SLC lds that are the off shoot.
The flds should demand that the SLC lds stop calling themselves mormons.
Wait a minute...isn't the above a representation of the entire Lds, Inc. media/commercial/PR "I'm a Mormon" campaign...to highlight the sheer "diversity" of Mormons?
So what if there's a child-bride Mormon?...they can say, "I'm a Mormon" (too).
So what if there's a "I-don't-believe-Joseph-Smith-saw-God" Mormon? (After all, "God" isn't id'd as "God" in that first vision account that's become Lds "scripture" anyway!!! See Joseph Smith - History in the Pearl of Great Price...and besides, hey, they, too can claim, "I'm a Mormon.")
So what if there's a "I-don't-believe-in-the-Book-of-Mormon" Mormon? (Can't they be on a "I'm a Mormon" too commercial???)
From the article: ...the most central doctrines...
What are those within Mormonism, anyway? Most of what was once "alleged" as "central Mormon doctrines" aren't even found in the Book of Mormon, anyway! So the Mormon church was incomplete in 1830-1831, etc. without them???
We've seen Mormon leaders bale on all kinds of "central teachings" ... like polygamy in the United States before the Mormon jesus returns. Mormons have no centralized approach to doctrine, anymore...it's all been riddled with possible "opinions" of men speaking forth.
From the article: Polygamist Mormons...
Well, not only "why can't polygamist Mormons be D&C 132 Mormons?"...but hey, aren't polygamist Mormons supposedly alive right now in the celestial kingdom?...aren't they considered by mainstream Mormons to be Mormons, too? (If not, who ex-communicated them?)
Are there alive RIGHT NOW even a few Lds general authorities who have married two wives (sequentially) & anticipate being married to BOTH in the afterlife? (Aren't they Mormons, too?)
I don't really care. I'm much more concerned when they call themselves Christians since they do not adhere to the most basic of Christian doctrines.
Yet this other question shows their hypocrisy. They start stuttering over Christians wanting to define what it means to be "in Christ"; yet want to dominate what in means to be "in Mormo."
Oh...and if you want to define "Mormo" pre-Mormonism...to see who this "god" is...look here: The Occult & Restoration Story (post #12)
Or read paragraph 6 here: Omens and Superstitions (Romans and Etruscans)
These links show that Mormons don't possess or own even the "original rights" to the god, Mormo!
They are an extension of him! (They've got the proprietary claims all mixed up & turned topsy-turvy!)
Cults typically manifest a territorial/paranoid psychopathy.
Mormons are a CULT plain and Simple, no different than Scientology.
Who except Mormon haters gives a d**m.
People who cannot bear to see Mormonism exposed, seem to care a lot.
Because they are self-righteous blankety blanks comes to mind, but that would be too easy.
Probably because they have a LOT of MONEY and they think the Golden Rule applies:
He who has the gold... yada yada yada...
What fascinates me is how they do NOT see the hypocracy in it:
SLC 'mormons' are NOT the ones who actually FOLLOW D&C 132, but the FUNDAMENTALists!THEY should be the ones to be called MORMON if ANY of them do!
Why does the LDS church try to claim that they are the only ones who can be called “Christians?
Well the Christian haters do...
What mormon haters? Name names and show post numbers.
Mormons hate themselves?
Deuteronomy 22:22 “If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die.”
Leviticus 20:10 “If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.”
“By whom?”, is the question; isn’t it.
The lds-org denies that Jesus is the Creator, that everything was created THROUGH Him, BY Him and FOR Him.
The lds-org is a thief of the Name and the Truth of Jesus Christ.
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,
' it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'
'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
Don't you read yours?
1 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say? 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her. 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?
11 No one, sir, she said.
Then neither do I condemn you, Jesus declared. Go now and leave your life of sin.
Its funny how Mormons claim to be Christian but ignore Christ's teachings.
Brigham Young tossed out the teachings of Christ, and replaced it with his own interpretations. He said the blood of Christ is not enough to save one of their sins and thus to save them from their sins, the sinner's blood must be shed.
It's pretty simple. You either except Jesus as your savior or you don't. If you don't and accept another prophet or gospel, don't call yourself a Christian.
First of all, I want to thank you for the many articles you have posted that demonstrate why Christians ought to be concerned with Mormonism, especially in light of current political trends.
That being said, although I agree with the main thrust of this post - the LDS should not have a monopoly over the name “Mormon - I did have a few concerns with this post:
1 - The CoC/RLDS have approximately a 250,000 members, which is a lot more than the 40,000 reported.
2 - The CoC (former RLDS) did not break away from the LDS. Rather, I believe the CoC still hold most of the churches and properties that were owned prior to the succession crisis (in other words when Joseph Smith, Jr. ran the show). I believe also that the RLDS won its lawsuits with the LDS over property ownership during the succession crisis. Also, if I am not mistaken, the CoC runs the burial site of Joseph Smith, Jr. So it would seem to me, legally, that CoC is the original branch, and the LDS broke off from them.
3 - Having said that, I will concede that LDS practices are probably closer to the religion practiced by Joseph Smith, Jr near the end of his life, than CoC practices. But on that point, the FLDS appear much closer in practice to Joseph Smith, Jr. than the current LDS.
4 - The “Mormon” question vis-a-vis the CoC/RLDS is somewhat moot given that CoC/RLDS have long rejected the designation, along with doctrines and practices that pushed the Latter-day movement from the fringes of Christianity into a non-Christian sect.
5 - I think the designation “Mormon” most aptly describes Utah/Brighamite latter day saints and their various off-shoots (LDS, FLDS, Kingston Group, etc.).
Unrelated to the story, but I would love to get your opinion on it, why has Utah not dealt with the growing FLDS scandal in Hilldale, Utah? Given that most of the state is LDS, given that Republicans have the Governor Mansion and super-majorities in both the state senate and state house, given that Hilldale (along with its twin Colorado City, AZ) is considered one of the most lawless areas in the nation, given that local police have proven themselves more loyal to Warren Jeffs and the FLDS than to the courts and the Constitution, given the increasingly unhinged ‘prophecies’ of Warren Jeffs that suggests the FLDS are another Waco situation in the making, why the great reluctance by the State of Utah to clean up this mess?
If for no other reason than to keep the situation from blowing up onto the national stage at a time when conservative Christians already harbor deep suspicions toward Romney?
Happy Valentine signup Day; NCC!
Welcome aboard FR
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.
21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.
Really? And I sarcastically ask "Just what is God's opinion" on the issue of becoming a god?
40 I am the Lord thy God, and I gave unto thee, my servant Joseph, an aappointment, and restore all things. Ask what ye will, and it shall be given unto you according to my word.
41 And as ye have asked concerning adultery, verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man areceiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy banointing, she hath committed cadultery and shall be destroyed.
42 If she be not in the new and everlasting covenant, and she be with another man, she has acommitted adultery.
43 And if her husband be with another woman, and he was under a avow, he hath broken his vow and hath committed adultery.
44 And if she hath not committed adultery, but is innocent and hath not broken her vow, and she knoweth it, and I reveal it unto you, my servant Joseph, then shall you have power, by the power of my Holy Priesthood, to take her and agive her unto him that hath not committed badultery but hath been cfaithful; for he shall be made ruler over many.
46 And verily, verily, I say unto you, that whatsoever you aseal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever you bbind on earth, in my name and by my word, saith the Lord, it shall be eternally bound in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you cremit on earth shall be remitted eternally in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you retain on earth shall be retained in heaven.
47 And again, verily I say, whomsoever you bless I will bless, and whomsoever you curse I will acurse, saith the Lord; for I, the Lord, am thy God.
Jeesus. Chicks don't seem to have parity of mere existence according to LDS and are very, very subordinate to man through an extraordinary coercive dicta.
They Do Not call themselves “Christians” which a term of implied inclusion.
They declare they are “Christian” which is an objectified and exclusionary term.
They are something you are not.
They ain’t “Christians”.
They are “Christian”.
yeah, dragonblustar, don’t you believe in your bible? /s
What bible do you believe in MindBender26?
The Holy Bible or the new interpretation by LDS CoC?
Welcome to FR nOOb.
Mormons are not Christian, Christians, or worshipping Christ...
Mormonism has nothing to do with Christianity
There was never any intention for it to be...
Joey Smith wanted a religion that would be anti-Christian...
Welcome to FRee repubic n00b
Your post is interesting...
Lots of good info...
Romney would be severely embarassed by an incident in Hillsdale...
I always wondered at people's spiritual math skills because it seems, no one can put two and two together.
Make God an also-ran, Make Jesus just a man.
Reject all ideas of grace and redemption in favor of cult loyalty and "good works".
Follow a doctrine that says once heaven is attained you must throw it away for "godly" powers and a domain of your own.
Can abyone think of a person who dismissed God, rejected heaven, in favor of his own power and his own domain?
BETTER TO REIGN IN KOLOB THAN SERVE IN HEAVEN
I agree with you. I was describing their pejorative.
“Who except Mormon haters gives a d**m?”
Me. Romney’s flip-flopping record aside, I as a conservative would feel much more inclined to trust Romney (and/or Huntsman) if he was CoC/RLDS variety rather than the Brighamite LDS.
For one thing, from the start CoC/RLDS denounced and repudiated polygamy, polytheism, secret temple rituals, blood atonement, etc. For another, they share the Nicene understanding of the Holy Trinity and Christology. They also don’t buy too seriously into Joseph Smith Jr’s claim of universal apostacy.
So when I speak with them, I feel we’re talking the same language and can agree or disagree honestly.
On the other hand, when it comes to discussing religion and politics with practicing LDS like Romney, I cannot help but feel that I am being subjected to Mormon Taquia. Nothing means what it says, explanations constantly shifting, something seems unsettling.
Wait....what you say???
Well then one can presume you read and receive your inspiration from the Book of Mormon.