Skip to comments.Mormonism Obsessed with Christ
Posted on 02/14/2012 7:11:25 AM PST by C19fan
Mocking Mormonism is one of the last frontiers of verbal lawlessness to be untouched by the vigilante powers of political correctness. What other group is ridiculed equally by Christians and secularistsand not just any kind of Christian or secularist but the most fervent and hard core? Fervent Christians see in Mormonism a mirror distorting their own faith, reflecting an image strangely recognizable yet recognizably strange. Hard-core secularists think Mormonism is the best example of the strangeness and danger inherent in all religious belief. Deriding Mormonism pulls off the neat trick of making the devout and the godless feel as if they are on the same side.
(Excerpt) Read more at firstthings.com ...
Obsessed with Smith=bad
Mormons are not our problem.
Muslims are our problem.
One question: if you could eliminate Mohammed or Smith from history, which would you pick in order to save millions of lives?
“by adding the Book of Mormon to the Bibleand that makes it much less than Christianity as well. Nevertheless, the fact that Mormonism adds to the traditional Christian story
does not necessarily mean that it detracts from Christianity to the point of denying it altogether.”
OH YES IT DOES!
18 For[i] I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add[j] to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away[k] his part from the Book[l] of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
“Mocking Mormonism” is “verbal lawlessness”? Wow. You normally don’t see that kind of pomposity outside of hollywood.
“The mormon court has found you guilty of verbal lawlessness. Your sentence is to listen to two mormon missionaries for an hour.”
“I beg for mercy! Please execute me instead!”
Mormons are less obsessed with worshiping Christ than becoming Christ.
You know, I agree with you that you can’t just add your own “gospel” to the Bible and then call yourself Christian. However, that verse you cite is a pet peeve of mine because it’s so often misused in these circumstances. It doesn’t say anything about adding to the Bible, because the “book of prophecy” it is referring to is only the Revelation of John, not the Old or New Testaments. The New Testament wasn’t even collected as one volume at that point, so reading the verse in that context is nonsensical.
>> this book <<
How can we know if this term refers to the whole Bible? Or just to the Book of Revelation?
“verbal lawlessness”. No 1st Amendment for You!
History tells us that various civilizations explain God in varying ways, each explanation varying from others in various ways; and humans fight over said variations
in varying ways.
Personally, I think that some power exists out there that is beyond mans comprehension, and that humans fighting over said power is not in that powers interests.
First, islam isn't claiming to be a complete restoration of Christianity like mormonism. Mormonism claims that ALL of Christianity was lost, that we're all apostates, Whores of Babylon, that Christ lied.
They claim that God and Jesus visited JS in a secret grove claiming all of this and more. Again, claiming that God lied when He said that upon His return, the WHOLE world would know, He wouldn't meet in secret with some 15 or whatever year old conman and thief.
Second, islam is known for what it is, mormonism otoh has done a very fine job of disguising just what it's really all about. That one's salvation has to be EARNED, but one never will truly know it it's been earned because they have to do all of this "work" and then hope that when they get to heaven, the mormon christ will decide to "pay off any balance owed".
Third, islam at least, minimally recognizes the divinity of Christ, where mormonism otoh, relegates Christ to just another man, who was conceived through physical relations.
Fourth, the mormon christ, upon his resurrection, is a murderous savage, not a loving redeemer. He's an OT style judge, slaughtering millions of people and destroying around 16 cities. See:
Lastly, mormonism deceives its followers into minimizing the saving grace of Christ. They teach and perform pagan rituals in their temples, claiming that without those rituals, there is no exaltation. Without exaltation, there is no dwelling in the presence of the mormon god and no chance to become a god themselves to rule over their planet, engaged in eternal, celestial polygamous sex in order to populate said planet.
Sorry, but mormonism is a problem, it's a problem for any right believing Christian who sees the danger posed to one's soul by mormonism. The teachings and doctrines are insidiously hidden, to deceive. Islam is what it is, any fool who becomes a muslim knows exactly what they're getting into. Mormonism is a "milk before meat" religion, hides most of the unpalatable aspects until one is firmly committed.
Couldn’t it be both?
“Muslims are our problem.”
False teaching is a bigger problem to me because it has eternal consequences. Anytime someone exposes false teachings, whether it’s mormonism or islam, with the goal of bringing others to a saving knowledge of the Biblical Jesus Christ it should be applauded....
Not sure why you have a problem with that.
So I guess we should have stopped at Deuteronomy?
"You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Deut 4:2
A question I often ponder.
My short list is
3. Ted Kennedy
I’m old enough to remember a time that it was considered equally chic and fashionable to hate Roman Catholics. It is basically the same crowd with a different target.
Mormons are so materialistic that they insist that the same unchanging laws govern both the natural and the supernatural. They also deny the virgin birth, since their materialism leads them to speculate that Jesus is literally begotten by the immortal Father rather than conceived by the Holy Spirit.
If Romney becomes the front runner and the nominee then the darkness of Mormonism and all that it entails will be brought to light for everyone to see. Romney’s nomination could be the death knell of Mormonism.
If this thread were about which is a greater threat mormonism or islam your point would be well taken.
However, because its not its not.
It is a different Christ, a false Christ. Jesus Christ and the Father are one. Not one in purpose, but one God, not different gods, as the Mormons teach. Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16), not a god manifest in the flesh, as Joseph Smith revealed. Jesus Christ is not an exalted man (neither is God the Father an exalted man), but very God, God from everlasting, the Creator, not a creature, not a created being.
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was not God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD, and beside me their is no saviour. (Isaiah 43:10,11)And:
Unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be on his shoulder: and his name shall be Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9:6)
No need to read between the lines to see that Isaiah is revealing the Godhead here.
Without very Christ, Mormons do not have God. (1 John 2:23). And this fact shows in Joseph Smith's authorizing vision where he says he sees the Son and the Father. He says God the Father spoke to him. Jesus Christ himself says
"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." (John 1:18)And Paul writes:
"In whom we have redemption in his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature." (1 Colossians 1:15)
The author's hyper-intellectual philosophical analyses aside, the question remains who did Joseph Smith see and hear. It wasn't God the Father, for he is invisible and a Spirit, not corporal: "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. John 4:24). The Mormon Christ is a false Christ, and the deceiver wants to take as many souls with him to hell as he can. What better way than to offer a counterfeit, dress it up in the trappings of Christianity.
I'm researching why Mormon's detest the cross! They've gone to great lengths to pervert the atonement account, claiming that Christ's suffering and bleeding in the garden in Gesthemane is what atoned for our sin. (re: Luke 22:44 -- He didn't "bleed"--it's a simile). Game over so soon? Not quite. The sacrificial victim must die first before his blood is used for the purging. (Remember how we are enjoined not to consume the blood of animals, but the life is in the blood?) The Bible says in stark contrast:
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:" (Galatians 3:13)It is no small difference that Jesus was sacrificed "outside the camp" (not within the city gates -- i.e. Gesthemane).
Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gates. (Hebrews 13:12)
Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. For here we have no continuing city, but we seek one to come.
The blood smattered image of Christ is the only true portrait. The other is a fake. (Must end here).
I’m also old enough to live in a time where Mormons “hate” Christians. Mormon leaders have the nerve to state that Christian churches are evil and don’t have the truth. Mormons claim that ALL Christians are apostate and can’t advance to the highest level of paradise without accepting the teachings of Mormonism...
How “hateful” of them.....
Who hates mormons? Name names. show post numbers.
“Mormons are not our problem. Muslims are our problem.”
False religions are a problem for Christians. If you excuse yourself, no problem. Your call.
“if you could eliminate Mohammed or Smith from history, which would you pick in order to save millions of lives?”
BOTH will send millions to Hell. Your choice is a false choice, unless again, you only care about the tiny lifespan people spend on earth, which is a false argument of reductionism. I care about both heaven and earth.
You are correct, mormonism will be laid bare.
We are on the same side on this one so this is not a nasty challenge. God has admonished against adding or taking away from his word throughout the OT & the NT. I think it is a mistake to think that the revelation from Jesus to John was solely for the book of revelation and not a reiteration of a constant theme.
You COULD read it so narrowly as to apply only to the book of revelation but IMO it makes much more sense to apply it to the NT as a whole.
Galatians 1: 6-12 (specifically verse 8 and 9 )
8 “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”
9 “As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”
* handles islam and mormonism
It is a different Christ, a false Christ. . . . . . .
Lets see, the Mormons worship The Christ that was born of Mary in Bethlehem. The one that turned water into wine, the one that was baptized by John, the one that was judged by Pilot and Herod and punished by Pilot. The one that was whipped nearly to death, was made to carry His cross to Golgotha, where he was cruelly crucified but was not killed but where he gave up His Spirit to God from where it came. The same Jesus that was resurrected on Easter Morning and was seen by Mary and then the 12 and eventually seen by over 500 who saw Him ascend into Heaven. The same Jesus Christ is willing to save us all from our sins that would otherwise doom us to everlasting Hell. Thats the Jesus the Mormons worship, you worship a different Jesus?
I know the Mormons have different beliefs but I know also that they worship the same Jesus Christ that I know. Maybe some of their beliefs are wrong, maybe not but they worship Christ. They may not be “traditional Christians” but they follow Christ to the best of their ability. They love The Lord.
My wife is one of them, if she doesn’t love The Lord then nobody does.
The ridicule I see here to me reeks of hate, this odor should never come from Christians.
Although, many mormons will go into all kinds of contortions attempting to explain what the passage "really" means. That Jerusalem, as described in the BoM is comparable to a county and that Bethlehem is a town in said county, therefore, there is no conflict.
Yeah, right. As to the behavior of Christ in the BoM:
I'm not too convinced that the mormon christ as described, is the same as described in the Bible, entirely different behavior upon the resurrection.
Did Christ lie when He stated that upon His return, the whole world would know? Where does it state He would meet in secret with a teenage conman, thief and storyteller?
The mormon christ is only able to "save" after a mormon has gone through all of the rituals in the temple, has accepted and performed all of their callings in an acceptable manner, etc.
AFTER ALL YOU CAN DO. That is the precept that mormonism teaches that is incompatible with the Biblical adomonition found in John 6:28-29. Why then, do the mormons have to take out endowments in the temple using pagan rituals that are not found in either the Bible or the BoM? Why then, is the mormon god exclusionary this way? Why is it acceptable for a woman's fate to be inextricably tied to the whims or desires of her husband? That if he chooses not to call her secret name at the veil, she can be forbidden from entering into the celestial kingdom to dwell in the presence of the mormon god?
Is Jesus a liar, again?
Mormons believe that Jesus is a finite being who was created at some point in time, used to be a man, and had to earn his “divinity”. Mormons don’t believe that Jesus is the one and only God, but instead one of many gods, who happened to be chosen by a council of gods to reign over Earth.
That view is entirely different from Christians who recognize Christ as eternally the one, true God.
Mormons diminish the view of Jesus by ascribing finite attributes to him.
mormonism teaches a christ that was born because the lds god had sexual intercourse with Mary
mormonism teaches that a christ paid the price in the garden and discount the Cross
mormonism teaches a created christ not an eternal Christ
mormonism teaches that a god was once a man and progressed to godhood not an eternal God
mormonism teaches that a chirst is not sufficient for salvation, salvation must be worked for with no assurance
mormonism does not teach about hell only levels of celestial being
mormonism teaches that man can become gods of their own planets
mormonism teaches that women do not progress to a celestial level without their husbands
mormonism does not in any fashion teach a Biblical Christ
I see in your list you left off the brother of Satan, born of a physical sex act between god and Mary, sacrifice not being totally sufficient, being one of many gods, etc.
Pretty significant stuff that...
So as a Christian I guess you ignore the guidance to call out false teachers and false Christs. I also would be accurate in stating that you have issues with the call to defend the faith.
To pick and choose. Must be nice.
Well maybe not in the end...
I still do find it interesting that you yourself are not Mormon...
We find it hilarious that you mormon defenders get your underwear in a knot about the posting of factual mormon doctrine from mormon sources by a few dozen FReepers at the same time that your leaders are bragging about the following:
We are grateful for the 52,225 full-time missionaries serving in more than 150 countries.16 The sun never sets on righteous missionaries testifying of the
Savior mormon church. Think of the spiritual power of 52,000 missionaries, endowed with the Spirit of the Lord Joseph Smith, boldly declaring that there is no other name given nor any other way nor means whereby salvation can come
, only in and through the name of Christ. mormon church temple rituals
"My young brethren of the priesthood, I testify of the majesty, but most of all, of the certainty of this magnificent event. The Savior lives. He will return to the earth (the Second Coming) . And whether on this side of the veil or the other, you and I will rejoice in His coming and thank the Lord that He sent us to earth at this time to fulfill our sacred duty of helping prepare the world for
His return the mormon theocracy
."other people, who may not yield full obedience to his laws, nor be fully instructed in his covenants, will, nevertheless, have to yield full obedience to his government. For it will be the reign of God upon the earth, and he will enforce his laws, and command that obedience from the nations of the world which is legitimately his right (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: John Taylor , 225).
Anyone who believes that Romney isn't fully immersed in this doctrine and the Law of Consecration is a fool: The Law of Consecration is considered by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to be a "celestial law." That is, people who are living lives dedicated to the service of God, such that at judgment they would be assigned to the Celestial Kingdom, should be able and expected to live the Law of Consecration. The Law of Consecration is that, if necessary or requested, a person would give everything he has for the building up of the Kingdom of God on Earth. He would be willing to wholeheartedly give of his time, talents, and resources. Thus, the person is "consecrating" all his personal resources to the Lord.
The law of consecration, said Elder Bruce R. McConkie (191585) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, is that we consecrate our time, our talents, and our money and property to the cause of the Church; such are to be available to the extent they are needed to further the Lords interests on earth. Mormon Temple Covenants
So, whine away. The exposure you provide enables us to post more information that many FReepers and lurkers have not seen about the beliefs of mormons, including Romney.
I’m disappointed to see an article like this in First Things. I was a subscriber from the first issue, but I dropped it a year or two after the current editor took over, because regretably it just wasn’t the same.
Mormons are the only religion mocked and scorned by Christians and atheists alike, and there are no objections from the politically correct? Surely the editor must know that the religion most scorned by Christians, atheists, and the politically correct is Catholicism? Not all Christians, of course, but as we see here in the forum there are plenty of Christians who make it a primary business to attack the Church. And as we saw at the recent Grammy show, it’s not Mormons that Hollywood most likes to attack.
The article also is curious because it does a constant shuffle dance. Mormons love Christ. But their Christ is not the same as the Christian Christ. Well, yes.
So what is the point? No, the LDS is not the same kind of problem as Islam, obviously. But it is not Christian. And it shares with Islam a habit of changing the basic facts of the Bible and of history. I hope that Christians can get along with Mormons and work with them against some of the crimes of the secular culture. But we need to recognize our differences, to do so.
Mormons claim to be the "restored church" but look how they dismiss Christ's sacrifice and replace it with personal atonement.
“I know the Mormons have different beliefs but I know also that they worship the same Jesus Christ that I know. Maybe some of their beliefs are wrong, maybe not but they worship Christ. They may not be traditional Christians but they follow Christ to the best of their ability. They love The Lord.”
So you are saying you also worship a created spirit who later became one of the FOUR Mormon earth gods? One of millions of other Mormon gods?
Preparing the World for the Second Coming-
According to Mormon high priest Bruce McConkle, at that time Willard Mitt Romney and the other true believing Mormons will return to polygamy...the faith of Romney’s fathers..
McConkle was the son-in-law to polygamist Moromon prophet Joseph F Smith, the grandson of polygamist Hyrum Smith brother of Joey Smith the inventor of Mormonism..
I have hesitate to weigh in on the Mormonism issue, and I won’t really do it here. I recommend that we all step back from our own beliefs for a moment and understand how we get to where are in terms of religious faith.
My views, briefly stated:
God is God. He made us; we did not make Him.
What I believe, I believe by faith; I cannot prove it, even to myself, except through the eyes of faith.
Everyone else who believes in God is subject to the same limitations as I am.
I believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Moses, and I believe in His only Son, Jesus Christ, our Lord, who died for the sins of all who will believe in Him.
My faith in Christ is bolstered by the faith of His Apostles and many who lived with Him, who, in the face of unspeakabel tortures and deaths, clung to their beliefs.
Others do not believe as I do; some do not believe at all. A proper response by those who do not believe as I do is: “I don’t believe as you do.” I may try to persuade them, and they may try to persuade me to change their/my beliefs.
Mormons (and Muslims, as well) truly believe what they believe. As long as they respect my beliefs, or at least do not interfere with my right to live and believe as I do, I can tolerate them also.
Get over your persecution complex and deal with the FACTS about MORMONism!!
Hint: "What GOES around; COMES around!"
Question: if you could eliminate Smith from history, would you do it in order to save millions of SOULS?
Singing - PRaise to da man!
ATTITUDES OF SUPERIORITY
1. Im Superior; I have a special gift of the holy Ghost -- you dont!
2. Im Superior; I have Gods true priesthood power -- you dont!
3. Im Superior; I can go in Gods secret Temple -- you cant!
4. Im Superior; Ive been Endowed with special Gifts and Knowledge -- youre just normal!
5. Im Superior; Ill have my family with me in heaven -- youll be with strangers!
6. Im Superior; Im becoming a God -- you arent!
7. Im Superior; My women know their place as servants of man and yours dont.
8. Im Superior; YOUR creeds are wrong because they come from man - mine comes from God (you can find each one printed in our Scriptures).
9. Im Superior; I dont HAVE a creed - Ive got 13 Articles of Faith.
10. I'm Superior; I have 4 "Bibles"-- the standard works (5 if you count the JST) -- you've only got one: in as far as it is translated correctly.
11. Im Superior; I can lie with impunity about such things as church membership, church growth, church doctrine, church history, church influence, etc. -- You cant.
12. Im Superior; I am right (everybody knows) when I say 'evangelical' Christians are lunatics --
-- Youre a hideous narrow-minded bigot, who is persecuting me by practicing discrimination by saying I'm not a Christian.
13. I'm Superior; I have a testimony about a prophet -- you don't.
14. I'm Superior; I have a Scripture-producing Amos 3:7 prophet -- you don't
15. Im Superior; I have a Living Prophet who talks to god every day -- you have a dim-witted hireling of Satan who only talks to himself.
16. I'm Superior; I have my calling & election made sure -- you don't.
17. Im Superior; I have magic underwear to protect me from the bogey man -- you dont.
18. Im Superior; I have secret clasps and grips to give the angel so I get admitted to the celestial kingdom -- you dont ;so you cant.
19. I'm Superior; I know secret handshake codes for afterlife entrances-- you don't.
20. Im Superior; I will see Joseph Smith setting on the right hand of GOD, when I get to Mormon heaven, and he will recognize me and judge me favorably -- Youre on your own; when you get to wherever youre going!
21. Im Superior; Im going to hie to Kolob -- youre going to who knows where.
22. Im Superior; I get to have a harem and act like a celestial stud for time and all eternity -- you dont.
23. Im Superior; I have sun stones, moon stones, sky stones, cloud stones, Saturn stones, and the evil eye of Osirus guarding my temple
-- You have nothing but a stupid cross.
24. Im Superior; My church has billions in assets stashed away -- yours has taken a stupid vow of poverty.
25. I'm Superior; Last - we have the power to keep a whole race out of our priesthood if we wanted to reinsert our 148-year legacy (we ARE still keeping an entire GENDER at bay!)
26. I'm superior; I have the "higher law" -- everyone else "lives under the "lesser law' because I say so...(over and over).
Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans.
All rights liable to be abused.
Muslims are our problem.
Spiritually, they are the same.
Uh.. by actually READING it and having just a LITTLE bit of knowledge of how our modern 'bible' came to be?
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll.
And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
I am SMART enough to KNOW that what MORMONism thinks about Catholics is STILL on the record!!