Skip to comments.Elie Wiesel calls for Romney’s help to end Mormons’ proxy baptisms of Jews
Posted on 02/15/2012 6:11:13 AM PST by Colofornian
Nobel-laureate Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel and a top official from the Simon Wiesenthal Center said Tuesday that Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney should use his stature in the Mormon church to block its members from posthumously baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims.
Their comments followed reports that Mormons had baptized the deceased parents of Wiesenthal, the late Holocaust survivor and Nazi hunter.
A spokeswoman for Romney said his campaign would not comment, directing all inquiries to church officials.
Posthumous baptisms of non-Mormons are a regular practice of the Mormon religion. Church members believe the ritual creates the possibility for the deceased to enter their conception of Heaven.
Individual members can submit names, usually of deceased relatives, for proxy baptisms. The church has tried to improve its technology to block the process from including Jewish Holocaust victims. In this case, officials blamed an unidentified individual.
We sincerely regret that the actions of an individual member of the church led to the inappropriate submission of these names, spokesman Michael Purdy said in a statement...
The practice of baptizing Holocaust victims has long been offensive to Jews. After years of negotiations, Mormon officials have prohibited posthumous baptisms of Jewish Holocaust victims.
There is no indication that Romney has ever been involved in the proxy baptism of a Holocaust victim. Asked if he had ever participated in posthumous baptisms, Romney told Newsweek in 2007 that, I have in my life, but I havent recently.
The controversy could put Romney in the uncomfortable position of having to directly address Mormon theology, a topic he has so far avoided in his current campaign. Many evangelical voters have expressed skepticism about Mormonism, and Romney, a former lay leader in the church, has rarely discussed his experiences in the church.
(Excerpt) Read more at bangordailynews.com ...
OK - You have your beliefs, and I have mine...
Nobody, at least not me, objects to their right to criticize. My problem is that I don't see the problem at all.
My second problem is that while I'm not particularly offended, I get annoyed at people who let their ethnic, religious, or political sensitivities rule their responses. But certainly they have the right to do so.
As for your other objections, well "harm" covers a lot of ground. There are opportunity costs to everything. So what? This is their cost, just like when I choose to go see a movie instead of doing yard workk,improving my mind,or going fishing.
As for Mormonism being a false religion, I think we can agree on that. But even God permits people to worship idols in this world. Not that they won't pay for it later.
The point is that the Mormons have the right to do what they do. It's not as if they are worshipping Baal and sacrificing children. The Jews that object have a perfect right to do so. I just find it whiny, and evidence of a victim mentality. If you have confidence in your views, you don't really care what others think of them.
Maybe Romney also needs to questioned on how many he has “FELT UP” (so to speak) in his church. Interesting.
great comeback, PERFECT.
NO ONE can change the outcome of a dead’s person’s eternal destination. Each person lived their own life and will answerable for it. You can’t change the outcome by “praying them” to Heaven or being baptized for them. It is pointless to try or to be offended. It is a non-issue.
Yes. Even the Mormon Book of Mormon teaches that...(And Mormons claim they also pay attention to the Bible...where the writer of Hebrews draws the line: And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment (Heb. 9:27) [Judgment follows death]
Book of Mormon: Alma 42:16 says that eternal punishment is as eternal as the life of the soul. [It's not temporary]
Alma 34:32-35 says there's no second chance: For behold THIS LIFE is the time for men to prepare to meet God...do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life...then cometh the night of darkness wherein THERE CAN BE NO LABOR PERFORMED. Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will reprent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world. (I cited parts of vv. 32-34)
Both Mosiah 16:11 & 1 Nephi 15:35 says there's only TWO destinations post-death (not a third called "spirit prison"). And the BoM knows only heaven & hell -- no temporary spirit prison (Mormn 9:23; Ether 4:18; Hel. 14:18-19; Alma 3:26; Alma 40:26; 2 Nephi 2:28-29; 2 Nephi 9:16; Alma 41:4; 3 Nephi 27:11,17; 2 Nephi 28:21-22).
If Mormons would only study their own Book of Mormon on post-life...(Smith took much of his early belief system from the Bible before it got twisted)...then they'd see how off-kilter this later-developed baptism of the dead idea was...
It is pointless to try or to be offended. It is a non-issue.
Sorry...but as indicated in earlier posts...it (excessive weight devoted to genealogy) was an issue in the early Christian church (1 Tim. 1:3-4; Titus 3:9). Although the apostle Paul in part made the same point -- that such genealogy was "useless..." he also said it didn't promote faith and sparked controversy.
That was enough for him not to ignore it.
And yes, idolatry -- Mormons making themselves out to be "saviors"...is offensive.
Good bring attention to the fact that Willard Mitt Romney is a Mormon high priest and bishop...
Romney himself did proxy dead dunking of other peoples ancestors...
Maybe some were Jews...
But none of them would have wanted to be Mormons...
Vatican issues an order to Bishops to not allow Parish records to be given to genealogical societies of the Mormon Church.
WASHINGTON (CNS) - In an effort to block posthumous rebaptisms by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Catholic dioceses throughout the world have been directed by the Vatican not to give information in parish registers to the Mormons Genealogical Society of Utah.
An April 5 letter from the Vatican Congregation for Clergy, obtained by Catholic News Service in late April, asks episcopal conferences to direct all bishops to keep the Latter-day Saints from microfilming and digitizing information contained in those registers.
The order came in light of grave reservations expressed in a Jan. 29 letter from the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the clergy congregations letter said.
Father James Massa, executive director of the U.S. bishops Secretariat of Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs, said the step was taken to prevent the Latter-day Saints from using records such as baptismal documentation to posthumously baptize by proxy the ancestors of church members.
Mormons have been criticized by several other faiths perhaps most passionately by the Jews for the churchs practice of posthumous baptism
Jewish leaders have called the practice arrogant and said it is disrespectful to the dead, especially Holocaust victims.
Well, they are more than offending, they are interfering. And they have a perfect right to protest. But the right to protest does not include the right to interfere, but DOES include the right to offend.
So they should do their damn protest elsewhere.
You have every right to be offended, it’s one of the freedoms we enjoy, and a lot of people spend their lives looking for ways to be offended.
It would give me a good laugh to find out that I was the subject of a curse, the target of some voodoo ritual, or somehow a family member was the object of a false baptism.
I laugh at it, you are free to get offended.
Neither one matters.
And Wiesal is right to be offended by the LDS practice. They should knock it off. The two things are both offensive was my point.
I think it’s offensive. Its satanic in nature to claim to baptize the dead.
Secondly, when a person who has dedicated their entire life to a certain faith, and it was a part of their identity, its extremely offensive for another faith to come in and say they were wrong in life so we will fix that in death.
And third, it’s upsetting to those who are left behind. What if devil worshipers were to do something like that or muslims, would we still give that a pass?
A cult taking people for a deceptive ride by wasting X% of their life-TIME & 10% of their lifetime income matters.
Whether you care or not; whether you are apathetic or not to such lives lived...hey, that's another question.
But so as to not come across harshly on that point, we ALL ignore some groups of people in either spiritual, physical or emotional need. (There's no way we can attend to all the needs)
The key here is that when I do find somebody who's sensitized to some given need -- and are attempting with some (truly) God-given aid to address it -- I don't break in to announce to them that the lives they are focusing in on aren't "worth" it.
The Mormons may come off as 'insensitive', but Wiesal comes off as a whiny victim. I'd rather be the former myself, and I have more sympathy with the former. You have the right to feel differently.
In the final analysis, if I let myself, I could be offended all the time. Life is too short, waaaay too short. THe only way I could not be offended, if I let myself, is by telling everybody else what to do. Which is what Wiesal is doing. Screw 'im.
Unless someone is being physically hurt, there is no need to get all upset. Pperhaps intense personal humiliation would justify some response. But the best thing is to ignore jerks.
Understand, none of this is a defense of Mormon theology or practice.
I certainly would. I laugh at both of them. I'm a Christian, I will remain a Christian, and if the muzies are right, I'll go to muzzie hell with a song on my lips.
Then leave WBC alone if they want to protest soldiers’ funerals. My point is not one bit more complex than that. Bye.
Ditto to your sentiments.
The two of you sound like you want to control how others worship.
These’s a political party that’s very into that.
They don’t post here, and are zotted when they do.
So, we are to roll over when someone takes on the name of our relatives for their religious practice? We have no rights and should just not be offended in order to allow another religion to trample on the very names of our loved ones?
Theses a political party thats very into that.
Sounds like you'd appease Islam too.
They dont post here, and are zotted when they do.
A very wise practice.
Its not that you just going to hell but that you want to drag the rest of us with you singing songs of appeasement to the wicked.
And if you say you are a "christian", then please point to me where Jesus encourages baptism of the dead?