Skip to comments.Is Mormonism Still Racist? Comments from a BYU professor stir up a troubling past
Posted on 03/03/2012 6:40:08 AM PST by Colofornian
God has always been discriminatory. So says Randy Bott, a professor of religion at Brigham Young University...
Why did the church withhold the priesthood from blacks for over a century? Among the reasons trotted out by church leadersincluding church presidents...Black people are the cursed descendants of ancient Biblical figures; black people committed pre-mortal perfidy; black people lacked the intelligence and personal integrity...
Such past beliefs have never officially been repudiated. And the failure of the church to repudiate them helped set the stage for the comments made by Bott, perhaps the most popular professor at BYU...
The Mormon Churchs own longstanding priesthood ban was, according to Bott...a blessing. Prior to 1978, blacks werent spiritually mature enough to be ordained with such authority. Bott compared blacks to a young child prematurely asking for the keys to her fathers car, and told Horowitz that misusing priesthood authoritylike crashing dads Oldsmobilecould have put blacks in the lowest rungs of hell, reserved for serial killers, child rapists, world-class tyrants, and people who abuse their priesthood powers.
...Bott...claimed that he had been misquoted. Yet he provided similar justification for the priesthood ban in a blog post from 2008 that was only taken down after this weeks story broke.
...For most of the 182-year lifespan of the LDS Church, members of the church hierarchythe senior-most of which are called prophets...used similar racist rationalizations for excluding blacks from full membership. Joseph Fielding Smith, who served as church president in the early 1970s (and was the great-nephew of the religions founding prophet), wrote a popular treatise, still available on Kindle, asserting that during a pre-mortal battle between God and the devil, blacks were fence-sitters...According to Fielding Smith...God cursed them with dark skin to set them apart from the more courageous whites who had sided with God.
(Excerpt) Read more at slate.com ...
Yeah, accountability has that sticking point about it. The slickest thing about Mormon leaders' past comments is that contemporary Mormons wash their teflon pans...meaning they NEVER hold them accountable for what they say.
They just "move on" -- claiming those comments are no longer "official" -- but none wants to go about condemning Mormon "prophets" and "apostles." They know it's a slippery slope: Condemn them for false statements = condemning them as "false prophets."
But nobody in the Mormon church has ever taken the "clean up" time to repudiate these past statements. And with the advent of the Internet...they linger...FOREVER!
From the article: The Mormon Churchs own longstanding priesthood ban was, according to Bott...a blessing. Prior to 1978, blacks werent spiritually mature enough to be ordained with such authority. Bott compared blacks to a young child prematurely asking for the keys to her fathers car, and told Horowitz that misusing priesthood authoritylike crashing dads Oldsmobilecould have put blacks in the lowest rungs of hell, reserved for serial killers, child rapists, world-class tyrants, and people who abuse their priesthood powers.
Yes. In the Mormon "view" of "salvation," just about everybody is "saved" -- at least to the lowest rung. So when a Mormon benevolently smiles at you and claims, "At least we don't condemn you to hell"...keep in mind what they really mean is that your new "Mormon" neighborhood in the afterlife is likely to be among "serial killers, child rapists, world-class tyrants" -- all/most of whom perhaps didn't even repent until a Mormon spirit missionary came to them and used a proxy baptism to give them the "Mormon gospel."
Yeah, that lyin' for the Lord thing doesn't work too well when you're blogging the same thing four years ago. Funny thing is...why didn't BYU students get upset then about these statements? Why was he made into the most popular prof @ BYU (especially that year)?
Correction needed: (Sorry, didn’t have my a.m. coffee yet): Article Source is Slate
Hey, the MEdia werent supposed to point this stuff out about mormonism until AFTER Mittens won the nomination
Then it leads every news story and talk show for months
Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality.” - Acts 10:34
“For there is no partiality with God.” - Romans 2:11
“My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality.” - James 2:1
God doesn’t show partiality between Jew and Gentile. His sheep comes from all tribes and nations (See Revelation 7:9) However, He does indeed show partiality. The Heavenly Potter has made one lump of clay for honor, other lumps for dishonor. He has mercy on whom He will and He hardens the hearts of whom He will.
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Scripture is crystal clear that his sheep were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.
For there IS partiality with the Mormon god.
Here's five Book of Mormon verses below talking about how the "skin of blackness" is a "cursing" based upon their "iniquity" (2 Nephi 5:21; Alma 3:6; Jacob 3:5) and how when the curse would be removed, they would again become "white" (3 Nephi 2:15), which the Book of Mormon says is a "delightsome" color (2 Nephi 5:21; cf. older version of 2 Nephi 30:6)...
The Mormon doc editors determined that Joseph Smith must have been "wrong" about 2 Nephi 30:6...changing that one after the 1978 "revelation"...but leaving the following all alone...the '78 "revelation" doesn't touch the racism imbedded in these passages:
The Mormon "prophets" Nephi, Alma and the Mormon Jacob are racists!
* "And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceeding fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them." (2 Nephi 5:21)
* "...many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and delightsome people." (2 Nephi 30:6, pre-1981 versions...changed from unknown reasons in 1981 to "fair and delightsome"...It's not like the Mormon church has the supposed gold plates to go back and look to interpret a word differently)
* "And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against the their brethren..." (Alma 3:6)
* "Behold, the Lamanites your brethren, whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins..." (Jacob 3:5) [Note: The "Lamanites" per Mormonism are Native Americans...so their skin color, says Mormon "scripture" is based upon a supposed curse]
* "And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites." (3 Nephi 2:15) [Note: So...to be "uncursed" is to have your skin turn white...per Romney's Mormonism, that is!]
The Book of Abraham verses are 1:24-27..."and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land." (v. 24)...Pharaoh was then supposedly "cursed...as pertaining to the Priesthood. Now, Pharaoh, being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood..." (v. 26-27)
Some Mormons talk as if a darker skin color as-a-supposed-curse was just ONLY some talk in the past. Uh, no! Look at the verses above -- Alma 3:6 and Jacob 3:5, for example. They also talk as if the "curse of Ham" being a darker skin color was also just some teaching that's been jettisoned. Well, then why is the Book of Abraham phrasing still there in their Mormon "scripture" -- the Pearl of Great Price?
“Scripture is crystal clear that his sheep were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.”
Amen, nothing in this excluding black sheep, nor inclusion of “white and delightsome” sheep only.
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
So, is Randy Bott a Romneybott?
This week I installed the new Desiring God app on my Ipad and phone. I have begun working my way through a series called “God’s Invicible Purpose” that Piper preached from that text in Ephesians. Incredible stuff.
Yesterday I was in my car for a long time and listened to two of the sermons. As I listened it struck me that even though men like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates apparently reject Christ and His gospel, God has raised them up and used their lives and passions to spread His message.
He accomplishes His purposes. Our God is an awesome God!
Official sites are sites supported by LDS officials unless said official sites are consider unofficial by said officials.At that point such sites are unofficial unless officially referenced for official purposes by officials who can do so officially.This should not be misconstrued as an indication that official sites can be unofficially recognized as official nor should it be implied that unofficial sites cannot contain official information, but are not officially allowed to be offical despite their official contents due the their unofficialness.Official sites will be official and recognized as official by officials of the LDS unless there is an official reason to mark them as unofficial either temporally or permanently, which would make the official content officially unofficial.This is also not to imply that recognized sites, often used here by haters cannot contain official information, it just means that content, despite its official status, is no longer official and should be consider unofficial despite the same information being official on an official site elsewhere.Even then the officialness my be amended due to the use of the unofficial information which may determine the officialness of anything be it official or unofficial depending on how and where it is used officially or unofficially.
|1 Timothy 2:3-5|
2 Peter 3:9
The Absolutyely CORRECT ones???
"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.
The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.
This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."
Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.
Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.
2 Nephi 5: 21 'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'
Alma 3: 6 'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'
August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:
(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)
1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said,
"The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."
We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood.
According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.
Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:
"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.
The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."
(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).
When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:
"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."
When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."
(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)
Yeah; Native Americans are althroughout the Book of MORMON; too.
I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today ... they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.... For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.... The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.
At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parentson the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather.... These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness.
One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.
(Improvement Era, December 1960, pp.922-23). (p. 209)
Of course mormonism is racist just like they still practice polygamy.
They have been and have done since its inception an they still do today.
I wish I had time to delve into those verses right now, but suffice it to say they don’t contradict what I said. They don’t mean that God did not chose His elect in eternity past. I certainly understand why you believe they do because ten years ago I too used them against the Doctrines of Grace. Coming to understand and accept the truth of Divine sovereignty changed my life.
For now I’ll just say congratulations on your decision. As for me, I’m thrilled He saved this dead sinner on purpose. I too made a decision to believe in Christ in an earthly sense, but He drew me and did a work in my heart first. All praise to His mercy and grace.
“No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.” (John 6:44)
“A man’s heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.” (Proverbs 16:9)
Well; when you DO find enough time; get back to me. I'm sure there are others who are as interested in your take on them as I am.
I’ll get back to you as soon as I can. I’m about to leave for an anniversary trip with my wife to Belize but I will try to respond before I leave.
Over the course of time I will do whatever I can to explain the Doctrines of Grace to anyone intersted. There is no topic as exciting to discuss. And there is nothing more awe inspiring and humbling.
One thing I will say before I go, no one is saved by coming to a right understanding of a doctrine. We are saved by coming to Christ as our Lord and savior.
BAsically true; but one can SURELY be lost by believeing in the WRONG thing!!
We are saved by coming to Christ as our Lord and savior.
While you are in Belize (diving?) look around for Lamanite artifacts.
The MORMONs would LOVE to have even ONE in their possession!