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The Coming Persecution (a priest's projection on what is to come if Obama re-elected)
Standing on my head ^ | March 2, 2012 | Fr. Dwight Longenecker

Posted on 03/03/2012 12:03:05 PM PST by NYer

So much talk amongst right wing Catholics of the erosion of religious liberty, the collapse of all things and the coming persecution. Talk of government detention centers and priests being shot like Bl. Miguel Pro.

I don't think they get it. That's not what it will be like.

America is different. We're into image big time. We thought the Soviets were into brainwashing and propaganda. We put them in the shade. America is all about healthy, lusty, good looking guys and gals who are clean cut, successful and smiling. We're into the good life. We're into being good and looking good, and if not the former at least the latter. We're into being the best, most successful and happy people in the world. Don't you know that??

There will be no martial law or military in the streets. That would appear to be so un-American! The officers who enforce the mandate will be lawyers in suits bearing legal documents. The battles will be in the courtroom. The penalties will seem just to the majority of people because we are in a democracy and those who disobey the law need to be punished, for it is the law of the land, and after all, if they had not done anything wrong they would not need to worry about anything!

To disobey the Mandate will seem so obstinate and unreasonable, for the State will not seek to close down any churches. Instead it will support the churches. Clergy training will be paid by the state. The church buildings will be maintained by a church tax which will be called the "tithe". Clergy will remain in their posts. Their dignity will be respected. All they will need to do is sign certain documents which ensure their safety and their freedom of worship in return for acknowledging the authority of the State (in civil matters only of course) These documents will be worded in such a way that a conscience clause will be admitted. The State will control the church "insofar as the law of God allows."

The State will bring in a sensible recognition of the validity of orders between the Christian churches. For practical reasons the Episcopalian priest or the Lutheran minister will be able to exchange ministries with the Catholic priest just as the Episcopalians and Lutherans already do. It will be a practical matter. Nothing theological will be implied for the Ministers of State would never presume to infringe on the theological aspect of the church. That would be above their pay grade. The orders will be interchangeable because the two churches are already so similar, and furthermore, many Episcopal priests are former Catholics and so have valid orders. This will smooth over the inconsistencies.

Many Catholic priests, after all, agree with the Episcopal doctrines and are in favor of married priests, women's ordination and homosexual marriage. Furthermore, the majority of the Catholics in the pews have no real problem with these things, and they see the sense of the government's re-organization of the religious life of the country. They never did like the noisy 'neo con' Catholics with their constant harping on about abortion and being homophobic and obsessed with sex. The government's solutions, it will be agreed, will bring peace to the whole situation. Common sense will prevail.

Oh there will be the complainers to be sure. They call them the 'recusants'. Cranky old homophobic, misogynistic priests--probably most of them secret pedophiles. The ones who are left are living off the grid. Most of the others are locked away for their own safety in the clergy 'retirement homes' that the government took over.

There will be pockets of resistance: Families here and there who are home schooling types--their girls in long denim skirts and their boys with combed hair and white shirts and ties. These "fundamentalists" will be called recusants. Some of the recusant families refuse to pay the "tithe" to maintain the churches and they are being fined and punished for their stupidity. These recusants harbor the priests and hide them away and think they are being martyrs for some great cause. The recusants will find it strangely difficult to get or keep a job. They'll end up impoverished and outside the mainstream.

In the meantime, most Americans will continue on happily. There have been no great revolutions. The economy did not collapse.  There was no great world war. The Muslims did not attack America. Families still go to the Mall, eat out at their favorite restaurants, and enjoy all the great amusements and opportunities America has always had on offer.

They're still neat and snug in the suburbs, and the Catholics? They will remember the first signs of a fuss--over the HHS Mandate of 2012--but it was soon shown that the vast majority of Americans--Catholics included--were in favor of artificial contraception--and didn't really mind abortion that much. Furthermore, it was shown that a good number of Catholic schools and universities and places of employment had already--even before the mandate--been providing cover for contraception, sterilization and abortion. The Bishops were shown to be wrong. The battle had already been lost long ago when the vast majority of Catholics accepted artificial contraception.

In the end, there was not really much of a battle. When things began to reach a crisis point most Catholics quietly stepped back from the fray. The Catholic churches and schools that chose  to be sensible and conform have been rewarded. They continue on much as they have done in the past. The Bishops may have removed the word "Catholic" from their name, but they still call themselves "St Patrick's School" or "Sacred Heart Hospital." They seem to operate the same as before. They have Catholic images on the walls and sisters in pantsuits still patrol the halls.

They fit in with the way of the world. Are some of the laws difficult for them? Perhaps in theory, but they obey. After all, it is the law of the land, and they will have seen how the few schools and colleges that stood up for the faith were crushed. So the Catholic Church will seem not to have been affected that much. The change will have been gradual and slow, and most Catholics will find that it is business as usual.

To be sure, there is a certain lack of edge--a certain softness, but they were like that before the changes happened. Dulled by a happy consumerism, and satiated with the American Dream, these Catholic schools and parishes and universities haven't minded too much that the Pope has been quietly marginalized by the State. They were never too keen on him anyway, and now that things have settled down it's all for the best.


TOPICS: Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: bhofascism; catholic; elections; episcopal; evangelical; lutheran; marxistcoup; nobama2012; obama; obamacare; obamatruthfile; persecution; remembernovember; thecomingdarkness; tyranny
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1 posted on 03/03/2012 12:03:13 PM PST by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

The “not a shot was fired” theory. Your thoughts?


2 posted on 03/03/2012 12:04:18 PM PST by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: NYer

Can’t disagree with it. Probably one of the most accurate posts I’ve ever read here.


3 posted on 03/03/2012 12:11:42 PM PST by Vince Ferrer
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To: NYer
It seems a reasonable path that could be taken. It is depressing realistic in it's cold assessment of what we likely face.

Throughout history the State has been the source of the greatest evils ever brought against man.

I pray there is a special place in the bottom rungs of h*ll for those who worship at the alter of State Power.

4 posted on 03/03/2012 12:12:35 PM PST by sand88 (Nothing on this Earth would get me to vote for Mitt.)
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To: NYer

With some difference it will probably be this way for all who follow Christ. As it was in the beginning, so it will be again - home churches.


5 posted on 03/03/2012 12:14:54 PM PST by WorkingClassFilth (I'm for Churchill in 1940!)
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To: NYer

It’s working so far.


6 posted on 03/03/2012 12:15:54 PM PST by SuzyQue
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To: NYer

“The ‘not a shot was fired’ theory. Your thoughts?”

What a shame that it should happen that way.

It all seems like a good and reasonable idea at the time, but it seemed reasonable in Germany in 1933, in Russia in 1917, and other places in the world that descended into hell.

Hopefully, Progressive scu&bags will not go that far in that their efforts will be scotched in one way or another.

IMHO


7 posted on 03/03/2012 12:16:04 PM PST by ripley
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To: NYer

Prior to the internet and instant broadcast of news and opinion this scenario would have been believable. Now, a few passionate souls is all it takes to sway public opinion either for or against a new act or policy. That won’t stop the vipers from trying but it’s a different world now.


8 posted on 03/03/2012 12:21:14 PM PST by concentric circles
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To: NYer

Obama’s picked the wrong enemy here. He’ll go down in flames if he persists . . .


9 posted on 03/03/2012 12:21:51 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: NYer

I think, within 15 years, it will be mandated that Churches preform gay “weddings” or lose their tax exempt status.

15 years ago, the concept of gay marriage was an alien one. The world of 15 years from now will be just as alien.


10 posted on 03/03/2012 12:23:53 PM PST by South Hawthorne (In Memory of my dear Friend Henry Lee II)
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To: NYer
"The “not a shot was fired” theory. Your thoughts?"

If large numbers of Catholics wake up and return to Catholicism rather than remaining cafeteria Catholics it could turn around on a dime. If they don't, the theory of how it'll go down is at least as good as any other and more realistic than most. It's definitely more likely to go that way than to lead to the general revolt some folks are expecting.

Personally, I think God is going to have a lot to say in this situation I just don't know whether it will be to let things get much worse in return for the fact that this country has turned away from Christ or to halt this mess in a fashion that shows He is always in charge no matter what politicians and weakling citizens think.

11 posted on 03/03/2012 12:36:11 PM PST by Rashputin (Only Newt can defeat both the Fascist democrats and the Vichy GOP)
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To: ripley

Much relieved to hear that all is Hunkee-xxx’in-DoRemee!

So we all stfu and continue ta grab over and bend ankles!


12 posted on 03/03/2012 12:37:25 PM PST by gunnyg ("A Constitution changed from Freedom, can never be restored; Liberty, once lost, is lost forever...)
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To: South Hawthorne

I believe that you are correct.This is coming.I read that the Gay marriage bill in Washington state originally had a clause that those who refused to officiate at this now legal ceremony,would be prosecuted.All of this is to destroy the Catholic Church.It stands in the way of a progressive’s paradise.


13 posted on 03/03/2012 12:47:29 PM PST by georgia peach (georgia peach)
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To: NYer
Obviously there is danger but the previous Pope stood up to the Soviet Union and prevailed. This one should work to expose Obama, beginning with Arpaio's work, and prevail against the American Marxists.

ML/NJ

14 posted on 03/03/2012 12:49:02 PM PST by ml/nj
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To: Rashputin
If large numbers of Catholics wake up and return to Catholicism rather than remaining cafeteria Catholics it could turn around on a dime.

They've been asleep for nearly 50 years ... any thoughts on how to wake them up? No doubt the bishops would be interested.

While I am reluctant to admit it, I think Fr. Dwight has drawn this projection from years of ministering to the faithful and not so faithful. Contracepting catholic women will not suddenly stop taking their pills. The economy is bad and, in their opinions, more children would mean curtailing current family activities in order to feed another child, or two, or ...

The best assessment of the current situation comes from Cardinal George. In case you missed that thread, here is the link.

The HHS Mandate: Cardinal George and the Bishops Are Fighting the Last War

15 posted on 03/03/2012 12:49:46 PM PST by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: NYer

Not with a bang, but with a whimper.

All true, except for ONE PROBLEM.

The state IS Broke. The collapse IS imminent. The “fascist super state” is unsustainable. But this IS their plan.


16 posted on 03/03/2012 1:02:49 PM PST by Waywardson (Carry on! Nothing equals the splendor!)
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To: ml/nj

My assessment of how all this will work out for churches, clergy and religion in the US is pretty much the same if His Excellency is reelected as written by the priest.

One further thing, if he is reelected, I firmly believe within those four years a shooting revolution will happen in the US. Frankly, one of the Russian futurists speculated the US will end up in a civil revolt as early as 2012, so perhaps he was off by a year or four, who knows. There are so many irons in the fire now, church state controversy, Universal Health Plans, the economy, unemployment, hidden inflaton, run away debt, less than functional education, racial uprest, illegal aliens and a man child who sees himself as king and master manipulator compounded by the fact he may not even be eligible for the office are one too many fuses leading to the powder keg.


17 posted on 03/03/2012 1:06:20 PM PST by Mouton (Voting is an opiate of the electorate. Nothing changes no matter who wins..)
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To: Olog-hai

Sad thing is millions of Catholics voted for Obama; they had issue with his belief in “late term abortions” but now they are throwing a hissy fit over forced contraception....and now worried that the once great USA will be like the Soviet Union under Obama Regime.

They weep what they sowed....


18 posted on 03/03/2012 1:11:23 PM PST by Engedi
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To: NYer
This reminds me of "The Children's Story" by James Clavell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Children%27s_Story

19 posted on 03/03/2012 1:16:31 PM PST by thecodont
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To: Engedi
“Sad thing is millions of Catholics voted for Obama; they had issue with his belief in “late term abortions” but now they are throwing a hissy fit over forced contraception....and now worried that the once great USA will be like the Soviet Union under Obama Regime.”

They weep what they sowed....

You are absolutely correct. I was stunned on how many of the Catholics i know voted for him, but I seriously doubt that these same catholics have a problem with birth control.

20 posted on 03/03/2012 1:31:30 PM PST by bella1 (Santorum 2012)
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