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For Further Study

Books - Scripture Alone? by Joel Peters and Reading God's Word Today - A Practical Approach to Scripture by George Martin
Cassette -
Does the Bible Teach Sola Scriptura Patrick Madrid vs. James White
CD - 
The Bible Alone? by Scott Hahn

1 posted on 03/07/2012 9:08:57 PM PST by Salvation
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To: nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; marshmallow; ...
Scripture Alone by Sebastian R. Fama One of the pillars of the Protestant Reformation is the doctrine of "Sola Scriptura," or "Scripture alone." The reformers taught that the Bible was the sole rule of faith, and that there was no need for an authoritative church. Now if this were a true teaching, as some still contend, we would expect to find it in the Bible, but we don't. The verse usually used to justify Sola Scriptura is 2 Timothy 3:16: "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." Note that this passage nowhere says that Scripture is the sole rule of faith. It says that it is profitable, and that is true. But that doesn’t make it the sole rule of faith. It says that it can make you complete, and that is also true. However, in order for Scripture to make us complete, we must accept all that it teaches. And Scripture teaches that Christ established an authoritative church. That is why Paul tells Titus, who headed the church at Crete, to "Exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you" (Titus 2:15). Indeed an authoritative church is necessary in light of 2 Peter 1:20: "You must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation." So Scripture makes us complete by showing us that we need it and that we need the Church to teach us what it means. Only a church whose teachings are authoritative and unchanging can qualify as "The Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Timothy 3:15). Cardinal Newman noted some years ago that 2 Timothy could not support the doctrine of Sola Scriptura because Paul's statement to Timothy would have to apply to him at that time. At that time there was only an Old Testament. If 2 Timothy were true in the sense that Bible Christians claim it is, it would rule out the New Testament, something that no Bible believing Christian would ever do.

Catholic Ping!

2 posted on 03/07/2012 9:11:46 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
Solo Scriptura vs. Sola Scriptura
4 posted on 03/07/2012 10:36:05 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: Salvation

That is a great intellectual argument and discussion I must confess but it seems to lack the SPIRIT! [and heart]

The Lord Jesus taught: “Ye worship ye know what: we know what we worship for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for the Father seeketh such to worship Him. God is a Spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth.” (John 4:22-24)

Again Jesus said: “It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh
profitheth nothing, the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are life.” (John 6:63)

Jesus teaching in John 15:26: “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, He shall testify of Me.”

Look at Romans chapter 8: “For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.” (vs 6)

“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.” vs 14)

“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.” (vs 16)


5 posted on 03/08/2012 2:29:41 AM PST by LetMarch (If a man knows the right way to live, and does not live it, there is no greater coward. (Anonymous)
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To: Salvation

Reading 2 Peter 1 starting at verse 19 and continuing on to 21 reveals a rather different meaning than the intended “you can’t read the Bible and understand its truths”.

In context it says that we should rely on the prophesies of the Bible since they are the product of the Holy Spirit.

There is a quite strongly worded warning about speaking ill of the power of the Holy Spirit in Luke 12...

9 posted on 03/08/2012 8:16:43 AM PST by Jack of all Trades (Hold your face to the light, even though for the moment you do not see.)
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To: Salvation
While it is true that the Holy Spirit can and oftentimes does guide us personally,

What 'can' &' oftentimes'?? Only those who rely on 'man', would make such a statement.

The Holy Spirit DOES and ALL THE TIME!

See how 'man' swayed from TRUTH with just one sentence for their own agenda. Let's keep it honest 'man' and get back to THE HOLY SPIRIT INSPIRED WORD!

10 posted on 03/08/2012 9:51:08 AM PST by presently no screen name
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To: Salvation

An appalling ad-hominem assault on a solid, widespread doctrine. Culminating with equating Protestantism with New Age cults is repulsive.

The errors therein are prolific, requiring far more response than time & space available for an efficient objective retort in a hostile thread.

Suffice to say Christ himself had low esteem for “tradition”, and for those leading any astray (not mitigated by an authoritarian unified front). Insofar as printed scripture may have been unavailable in the past, it is prolific now. Teachers of scripture facilitate the word of God, and do not augment as equals bearing new additional words.

Sola Scriptura.

14 posted on 03/08/2012 11:25:35 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals:
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To: Salvation
Like what about Christ put the Holy Spirit in the Day of Pentecost then the Apostles laid hands on believers.

Acts 6

The Choosing of the Seven

1 In those days when the number of disciples was increasing, the Hellenistic Jews[a] among them complained against the Hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food. 2 So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together and said, “It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to wait on tables. 3 Brothers and sisters, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them 4 and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word.”

5 This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism. 6 They presented these men to the apostles, Who Prayed and Laid their hands on them.

7 So the word of God spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem increased rapidly, and a large number of PRIESTS became obedient to the faith.



All the priests put hands on each other and back from bishops to priests. This has been going on for two thousand years since the days of ACTS 6. THE Bishop explains this at every ordination. HMMMM


Luke writes these because it is stupid I guess by the Holy Spirit about a church lasting any length told by a Jewish leader. The Church for Two Thousand Years.


34 But a Pharisee in the council named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law held in honor by all the people, stood up and gave orders to put the men outside for a little while.

35 And he said to them, “Men of Israel, take care what you are about to do with these men. 36 For before these days Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined him. He was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing.

37 After him Judas the Galilean rose up in the days of the census and drew away some of the people after him. He too Perished, and all who followed him were Scattered.

38 So in the present case I tell you, Keep Away from these men and let them alone, for IF this Plan or this undertaking is of Man, IT will Fail; 39 but if it is of God, you Will Not be Able to Overthrow them. You might even be found Opposing God!” So they took his advice, 40 and when they had called in the apostles, they beat them and charged them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.

41 Then they left the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer dishonor for the name. 42 And every day, in the temple and from house to house, they did not cease teaching and preaching that the Christ is Jesus.


38 "So in the present case I tell you, Keep Away from these men and let them alone, for IF this Plan or this undertaking is of Man, IT will Fail; 39 but if it is of God, you Will Not be Able to Overthrow them. You might even be found Opposing God!”


I just Believe it all comes from an existing visible Church first for two thousand years.

Also in around the third century to fourth century like we have succession of Presidents from Washington to LIncoln to all the way to Obama(Forgive me for mentioning! LOL!!) recorded for history we also have a believer record the successor of Peter.

Augustine of Hippo:

Letter 53 (A.D. 400) For if the lineal succession of bishops is to be taken into account, with how much more certainty and benefit to the Church do we reckon back till we reach Peter himself, to whom, as bearing in a figure the whole Church, the Lord said: “Upon this rock will I build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it!”

The SUCCESSER of Peter was Linus, and his successors in unbroken continuity were these: — Clement, Anacletus, Evaristus, Alexander, Sixtus, Telesphorus, Iginus, Anicetus, Pius, Soter, Eleutherius, Victor, Zephirinus, Calixtus, Urbanus, Pontianus, Antherus, Fabianus, Cornelius, Lucius, Stephanus, Xystus, Dionysius, Felix, Eutychianus, Gaius, Marcellinus, Marcellus, Eusebius, Miltiades, Sylvester, Marcus, Julius, Liberius, Damasus, and Siricius, whose successor is the present Bishop Anastasius..

Notice “successor of Peter”.


Yet, the Lampstand is still there for Two thousand years. Strange indeed. Why does it last so long!! Hmmmm

15 posted on 03/08/2012 11:52:33 AM PST by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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