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Childish behavior - all about individual Freepers
Skip to comments.Kenneth Copeland; Tongues as Languages Not Learned etc
Posted on 03/09/2012 10:46:28 AM PST by Quix
I'm a bit loathe to wade into such again. However, The Lord HAS brought to my awareness a couple of things this past week that kind of goad me into posting. I'm MORE loathe to allow Holy Spirit to go unrepresented on such scores on FR after the recent thrashing His works received on that other locked thread.
I'm NOT interested in going around and around with the more irrationally and unBiblically harsh posters on that other thread. They will likely arrive and rant as they did on that thread. I may or may not respond with pics and gifs. I don't plan to engage them with yet more futile words.
And, the chronically, habitually, generally carpy naysayers can just go suck rock candy or lolly pops. Their reaping is already scheduled. If they want to earn more of such from The Lord, that's their business.
I know the authenticity of Holy Spirit's gifts and workings in my own life. I have to be responsible to His interactions with me and leadings of me in my own life. And, as I feel led, to speak up in behalf of His gifts in this era.
I don't feel responsible to try and bore a hole and pour it in. And, I am not inclined to get two bricks and try and make the camel drink water. Doesn't work with women anyway.
That said . . .
I learned this week that the wife of a close relative of mine was miraculously healed in a Kenneth Copeland service. She had a serious case of . . . [serious]. . . cancer in advanced stages and was not expected to live. Her blood count was 5 but I don't know what aspect of her blood count was 5. Maybe I'll find out and post it later.
My relative had escorted her to the front row where she sat, unable to stand and looking like 'death warmed over' in extreme weakness.
Kenneth instructed his wife Gloria to go down and lay hands on her. She was immediately and totally healed. She went to the Doc for an already scheduled appointment the next day. He said there was no sign of cancer anywhere in her body and that he was dumfounded as he was never wrong.
As I understand it, the medical verification documentation is quite conclusive. She may even publish it all in her own narrative in due course. I'm not inclined to give more info for my privacy.
I think I learned that this last Tuesday evening.
Last Wednesday evening at church, Pastor related the following narrative.
She had been on a mission trip to Guatemala. In one of their gatherings in one of the poorest churches--a ramshackle tin building affair . . . a local church member began to give a message in tongues. This person had never learned English at all.
The woman spoke quite clear English and told of how God was going to give them a newer larger building much better for their church.
The woman had no idea what she had said. When Pastor's team told her what she'd said, she broke down almost in convulsions for joy and in humility over the Lord using her so to bring such a longed for message to her congregation. As I understand it, that did then transpire exactly as she'd declared in a language she did not know.
On the same mission trip, they went to a very wealthy church led by a Pastor who lived in a wealthy home with marble walls etc. Pastor visited the man's opulent home.
Holy Spirit spoke to Pastor and told her that the man was having an affair with his secretary and that Pastor must confront him and call him to repentance. Pastor has a very powerful prophetic gifting though is not per se a prophet.
Pastor told their local tour guide who was in personal relationship with all the pastors of the churches they visited--including this wealthy one. She replied to Pastor: "You'd better be right!"
Pastor confronted him and he admitted it. He did not repent but justified it with sleezey rationalizing that he was 'supposed to love the sheep.'
I felt when Pastor related the story that the man has since, rather soon after that, died but I haven't verified that even with Pastor. She may not know.
Those who have such experiences are like the blind man Christ healed:
New Living Translation (©2007)
The Pharisees asked the man all about it. So he told them, "He put the mud over my eyes, and when I washed it away, I could see!"
Some of the Pharisees said, "This man Jesus is not from God, for he is working on the Sabbath." Others said, "But how could an ordinary sinner do such miraculous signs?" So there was a deep division of opinion among them.
Then the Pharisees again questioned the man who had been blind and demanded, "What's your opinion about this man who healed you?" The man replied, "I think he must be a prophet."
The Jewish leaders still refused to believe the man had been blind and could now see, so they called in his parents. 19 They asked them, Is this your son? Was he born blind? If so, how can he now see?
20 His parents replied, We know this is our son and that he was born blind, 21 but we dont know how he can see or who healed him. Ask him. He is old enough to speak for himself. 22 His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders, who had announced that anyone saying Jesus was the Messiah would be expelled from the synagogue. 23 Thats why they said, He is old enough. Ask him.
24 So for the second time they called in the man who had been blind and told him, God should get the glory for this,[b] because we know this man Jesus is a sinner.
25 I dont know whether he is a sinner, the man replied. But I know this: I was blind, and now I can see!
26 But what did he do? they asked. How did he heal you?
27 Look! the man exclaimed. I told you once. Didnt you listen? Why do you want to hear it again? Do you want to become his disciples, too?
28 Then they cursed him and said, You are his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses! 29 We know God spoke to Moses, but we dont even know where this man comes from.
30 Why, thats very strange! the man replied. He healed my eyes, and yet you dont know where he comes from? 31 We know that God doesnt listen to sinners, but he is ready to hear those who worship him and do his will. 32 Ever since the world began, no one has been able to open the eyes of someone born blind. 33 If this man were not from God, he couldnt have done it.
34 You were born a total sinner! they answered. Are you trying to teach us? And they threw him out of the synagogue.
35 When Jesus heard what had happened, he found the man and asked, Do you believe in the Son of Man?[c]
36 The man answered, Who is he, sir? I want to believe in him.
37 You have seen him, Jesus said, and he is speaking to you!
38 Yes, Lord, I believe! the man said. And he worshiped Jesus.
39 Then Jesus told him,[d] I entered this world to render judgmentto give sight to the blind and to show those who think they see[e] that they are blind.
40 Some Pharisees who were standing nearby heard him and asked, Are you saying were blind?
41 If you were blind, you wouldnt be guilty, Jesus replied. But you remain guilty because you claim you can see.
None are so blind as those who REFUSE to see--always for all the 'right,' 'honorable,' 'Biblical' reasons. . . . just like the Religious rulers who had the Bible memorized 2000 years ago.
I say again:
BLESSED ARE THOSE WHO COME IN THE NAME OF THE LORD . . .
Trusting Him, obeying Him, doing the works that He did and enables us to do, by His Spirit.
END TIMES PING LIST PING
plus a few other friends and loved ones.
BTW, for those who missed it earlier . . . here’s
Curry Blake’s series . . . his course on healing:
I have heard many times of people speaking in tongues, this is the first I’ve heard of there being someone who understood such speaking as being in their own language.
I’ll relate again another from a dear friend in the Pacific NW.
She went on a tour to visit half a dozen or so Native American tribes as a kind of mission outreach.
At the closing of her time with 3 DIFFERENT tribes, while a tribal leader was praying over their shared time, she was praying quietly in tongues more or less under her breath but loud enough for someone standing nearby to hear her.
In EACH of those 3 DIFFERENT TRIBES WITH 3 DIFFERENT LANGUAGES, after the ending of the ending prayer time, an old timer in the tribe who’d been standing near my friend, spoke up and asked her “Where did you learn the more eloquent, [archaic] form of our language? You gave a flawless summary of the Gospel story in the old, seldom used, more formal form of our language.”
My friend had no idea she’d been speaking their language at all. She was just doing her usual of praying in tongues as she had ran out of things to pray in English.
I don’t have any problem believing that tongues are a gift from God.
I do have a problem with accepting almost anything that Kenneth Copeland teaches.
He has taught many many falsehoods over the years.
When the Apostles "spoke in tongues," was it that all understood what was said, or that they actually spoke all opf those languages. I go with explanation (A). That is, the Apostles spoke and that each of the multitude heard what they said in their own language. Is it creditable that they spoke all of those tongues simultaneously?
I don’t know many who haven’t taught some falsehoods
in any denomination.
In terms of Holy Spirit’s capacity?
YES! It’s exceedingly credible.
The BIBLE SAYS
“spoke in . . . “
“heard . . . “
Kenneth Copeland is a heretic, and many of his teachings are heretical.
One would think Christianity had
from the example of the Pharisees.
...another outstanding gem for my collection of ‘great posts’...
More so than you are?
For whatever reason, God still sees fit to use him.
Evidently God has a different perspective on his flaws, sins, heresies than you do.
Not that God excuses any such per se . . . just that He ranks things differently in Kenneth’s life than you seem to.
And/or He has a different schedule for cleaning Kenneth up than you do.
I don’t know of an pastor who hasn’t taught a raft of junky stuff . . . particularly in their younger more arrogant years or older more arrogant years.
Arrogance is a super sin in maybe a majority of pulpits. And wherever arrogance is, there will be heresies and stupid assertions.
IN EVERY DENOMINATION.
Just because your Pastor’s junky assertions are more to your sensibilities and comfort zones doesn’t make them more right than Kenneth’s.
THANKS FOR YOUR HUMBLING AND KIND REPLY.
May God bless you and those you love with His abundant provision, grace, forgiveness, peace, joy, love, faith, hope, protection, guidance, intimacy with Him and with those you Love.
What is the point of praying in a language you don't understand? What if what you are saying is offensive to God?
What's with the unreadable fonts? Please use a font normal people can read.
The account in Acts tell of the practical purpose of helping those who were foreigners hear the gospel in their own language and thus this gift helped to establish the Christian church.
Those speaking in tongues understood what they were saying and had control over whether to speak or not just as Paul later commented.
In the congregation if there was no one to translate then the speaker was to keep quiet so the event was orderly and restrained.
Finally those gifts , speaking in tongues and their interpretation, were to cease so in and of themselves they would not later serve as evidence of the operation of God's spirit.
What would would fulfill that role was those fruitcake's of the spirit Paul listed, love, joy, peace, etc. with the greatest being love.
It was by that love, not speaking in tongues, that Jesus said,
‘By this all will know you are my disciples, if you have among yourselves’.
So when I look for evidence of the operation of God's spirit I look for the practice of Christian love Jesus spoke about and the fruitages of God's spirit that Paul listed not the speaking in tongues.
Some fonts are designed to help minimize those with irrational, unBiblical & obnoxious attitudes among my readers.
In terms of your question . . . Perhaps some enlightenment
MIGHT occur on reading I Cor 12-14.
And authentic love comes in many wrappings, packages and forms.
Sounds like editorializing according to your personal sensibilities.
King David's wife had a comment about his dancing before the Lord in a more 'restrained' fashion. She ended up barren for her attitude/critique.
"Decently and in order" the KJV says. Yeah, chaos is not orderly or helpful.
The MOST beautiful sounds, music, worship experiences I've ever been a part of have been the 3-5 times in my 65 years when in a medium to large group, Holy Spirit led and directed singing in tongues broke out in different parts of the congregations simultaneously. Different melodies; different languages; no one leading but Holy Spirit--EVERY MELODY INTERWEAVING SYMPHONICALLY TO PERFECTION. It may well have been that angels were also adding their voices as the sound was thoroughly Heavenly. And I doubt many had much of a clue as to the specifics Holy Spirit was expressing from their spirit to God--just as Paul notes in I Cor 12-14. Then, when Holy Spirit was finished, it all stopped very close to the same instant.
Glibly skipping over Paul's mention about his mind not being enlightened by his praying in tongues is not very . . . honorable in the argument, to me.
Basically, fantasies and rationalizations don't hold a candle to Biblical truth and Biblical experiences.
As to the love aspect . . . some of the nastiest pontifications I've experienced in my 65 years have been on the part of folks wailing about a lack of love and with great hostility against tongues.
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