Kenneth Copeland; Tongues as Languages Not Learned etc

That curious, mystifying space between Quix's ears | 9 MAR 2012 | Quix

[Quix]

I'm a bit loathe to wade into such again. However, The Lord HAS brought to my awareness a couple of things this past week that kind of goad me into posting. I'm MORE loathe to allow Holy Spirit to go unrepresented on such scores on FR after the recent thrashing His works received on that other locked thread.

I'm NOT interested in going around and around with the more irrationally and unBiblically harsh posters on that other thread. They will likely arrive and rant as they did on that thread. I may or may not respond with pics and gifs. I don't plan to engage them with yet more futile words.

And, the chronically, habitually, generally carpy naysayers can just go suck rock candy or lolly pops. Their reaping is already scheduled. If they want to earn more of such from The Lord, that's their business.

I know the authenticity of Holy Spirit's gifts and workings in my own life. I have to be responsible to His interactions with me and leadings of me in my own life. And, as I feel led, to speak up in behalf of His gifts in this era.

I don't feel responsible to try and bore a hole and pour it in. And, I am not inclined to get two bricks and try and make the camel drink water. Doesn't work with women anyway.

That said . . .

I learned this week that the wife of a close relative of mine was miraculously healed in a Kenneth Copeland service. She had a serious case of . . . [serious]. . . cancer in advanced stages and was not expected to live. Her blood count was 5 but I don't know what aspect of her blood count was 5. Maybe I'll find out and post it later.

My relative had escorted her to the front row where she sat, unable to stand and looking like 'death warmed over' in extreme weakness.

Kenneth instructed his wife Gloria to go down and lay hands on her. She was immediately and totally healed. She went to the Doc for an already scheduled appointment the next day. He said there was no sign of cancer anywhere in her body and that he was dumfounded as he was never wrong.

As I understand it, the medical verification documentation is quite conclusive. She may even publish it all in her own narrative in due course. I'm not inclined to give more info for my privacy.

I think I learned that this last Tuesday evening.

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Last Wednesday evening at church, Pastor related the following narrative.

She had been on a mission trip to Guatemala. In one of their gatherings in one of the poorest churches--a ramshackle tin building affair . . . a local church member began to give a message in tongues. This person had never learned English at all.

The woman spoke quite clear English and told of how God was going to give them a newer larger building much better for their church.

The woman had no idea what she had said. When Pastor's team told her what she'd said, she broke down almost in convulsions for joy and in humility over the Lord using her so to bring such a longed for message to her congregation. As I understand it, that did then transpire exactly as she'd declared in a language she did not know.

On the same mission trip, they went to a very wealthy church led by a Pastor who lived in a wealthy home with marble walls etc. Pastor visited the man's opulent home.

Holy Spirit spoke to Pastor and told her that the man was having an affair with his secretary and that Pastor must confront him and call him to repentance. Pastor has a very powerful prophetic gifting though is not per se a prophet.

Pastor told their local tour guide who was in personal relationship with all the pastors of the churches they visited--including this wealthy one. She replied to Pastor: "You'd better be right!"

Pastor confronted him and he admitted it. He did not repent but justified it with sleezey rationalizing that he was 'supposed to love the sheep.'

I felt when Pastor related the story that the man has since, rather soon after that, died but I haven't verified that even with Pastor. She may not know.

[Lx]

That is one reason I avoid the mega Churches. Rick Warren is a perfect example. In his Purpose Driven Life, he uses scripture from several different translations to make his points.

Which leads to the question of why he didn't pick one translation and stay consistent to the Book? As I said before, I prefer King James translation, I like the format, the language and the fact the they let you know when they've added words to add clarity but they have them in italics so you know they've been added.

To get back to Warren and I'm not just picking on him, his name is what first came to mind. From what I've heard and read, his Church is Christianity lite. Yes, there are passages in the Bible that are gruesome or indecipherable but you can't take them away or re-write them and lose the intent of the original author (that would be God who had the Holy Spirit tell or show the author of a book although there are many passages where it is God himself talking to the author). I forget where it is in the Bible but God makes it clear that man is not to add or take anything out of the Book.

Now, if the newer translations allow people to get more out of the Bible, I'm all for it. My problem is when they try to modernize passages, or make them gender neutral OR they leave out the blood as it is referenced.

Jesus went through an incredible amount of pain and bloodshed; I think that even the gore in The Passion was probably less than he really had to endure. Think about it, he is taking man's sin debt and making it his own and it's not just for believers, he takes on the whole debt for everyone who has or will live. You can't sugarcoat it, or as I've actually heard a supposedly Christian Pastors say, that Jesus was only a Prophet.

How they can diminish the role and teachings of Jesus in the NT? Then they are obviously teaching false doctrine. Also, when a Bible leaves out the blood, how do they reconcile the Holy Communion? Do they leave out why they're drinking wine (or grape juice) in remembrance of Him, do they leave out the part about his body being broken for them or, "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many."

If people have a weak Pastor or one who wants to be something to everyone, then folks are much better reading Scripture until they can find a Pastor who teaches from the Book and doesn't try to minimize the passages they have trouble with. Paul's mention of woman's role in the Church is one of those passages weaker Pastors would like to glide over.

[fishtank]

It was not my intention to cause anything but a search for Bible truth.

Unfortunately, Ken Copeland has put forth some faulty errors and false teachings that are more like mormonism than anything else.

I have been deceived in the past by false teachers, and I don’t like it when they harm the truth of God.

[Quix]

I guess you’d better start a church of ONE, then.

I’ve never met or heard a teacher or preacher who didn’t say something false sooner or later.

[Lx]

Thank you.

I'm glad to see Biblical discussions on FR but I have a problem when someone comes on and acts and writes that he and only he knows the true meaning of the Bible.

On top of that, they don't give credit, I've learned a lot from a couple of Pastors I don't want to name but one guy who really got me into the meat of the Word is Les Feldick. I don't agree with everything he says but he always backs up whatever he says with scripture. Unfortunately, his shows are all reruns now but the Word hasn't changed so they're worth watching.

Les is also the first person to admit that he stands on the shoulders of giants regarding the word and he frequently names who those people are. I took some notes in order to read what he read but now I can't find them!!

[Lx]

Tongues is a sign for unbelievers, not a tool with which believers are to judge each other by.

Or as a tool to beat unbelievers with while using your own judgment and not the Word as we've seen from some posters

Metmom isn't calling out people to attack you; I know your self esteem is off the chart but believe me, it's your incredibly wrong interpretations of Scripture that brings people to this thread.

I don't know how to tell you this, but like the rest of us, you are not that important.

[Quix]

This morning, I’ve done 2 things about such.

1. I’ve asked Kenneth Copeland Ministries webmaster if there is any document etc. answering the stuff about Kenneth’s more silly statements. I may have filled out the wrong form and will correct that.

2. I’ve asked my close relative and/or his wife to come on the thread and make a statement of their choosing.

I don’t know that either one of them will. They have plenty on their plate.

There may be a few readers interested in truth and Biblical truth . . . it seems the posters on y’all’s side are far MORE interested in outrageously unwarranted rock throwing instead of either one.

I used to think that some of us more awake sorts of Believers regarding END TIMES EVENTS were more Biblically grounded and spiritually mature than most others. Perhaps that’s still true.

However, if that’s true, then the Body of Christ is in a LOT WORSE SHAPE than even I imagined.

Incredible. Absolutely shockingly incredible.

I’m beginning to wonder if it’s only unbelievers who have their minds darkened by dark forces. Sigh.

[Quix]

I don’t know a lot of things.

I don’t understand a lot of mysteries.

I do know y’all are wrong about whether Kenneth Copeland is an authentic Bible believing genuine Christian man of God, or not.

I realize there’s nothing I can say to convince any of you otherwise.

Enjoy y’all’s gilded buckets of rocks.

We’ll definitely see what kinds of heavenly rewards accrue therefrom.

[Quix]

There’s certainly a mysterious element about all this on this and the other thread . . . that this psychologist/sociologist really would like to understand better.

What on earth generates such an intense compulsive vicious dogpiling

as though

y’all’s side were comprised totally of super starving, rabid wolves descending on one rabbit.

Fascinating.

Shocking.

Incredible.

May God have mercy.

[metmom]

Thank you....

[metmom]

What on earth generates such an intense compulsive vicious dogpiling as though y’all’s side were comprised totally of super starving, rabid wolves descending on one rabbit.

From the man who just pinged the above ping list and often pings his end times ping list?

Save the martyr trip for real. It doesn't wear well when whine about others doing to you what you've been doing to them.

[Quix]

Evidently the RM thinks your personal assaultiveness at #459, #478, etc and making it personal are not worth the bother . . .

I’ll go ahead and comment.

1. You have been here long enough to know what my UFO beliefs are.

2. You are smart enough to know this thread is not about UFO’s.

3. Evidently your bringing the topic up is totally for destructive purposes.

4. I’m proud and humbled that God has seen fit to teach me all HE HAS TAUGHT me about UFO’s and their part in the Biblical END TIMES script the Anti-Christ and his globalist goons are playing out.

5. I can only share as God directs and allows me to share. I cannot force folks to drink at the trough of truth.

6. Many folks will have blood on their hands for hindering the truth about dangerous aspects of the times ahead when they could have done the opposite.

7. All that will have to be God’s business.

8. Like taste, there’s evidently no accounting for idiocy, stupidity, cluelessness, stubbornness, arrogance, vengeance flinging etc. All that too will have to be God’s business.

[Quix]

Evidently quite a chorus agree with you.

Thankfully, God’s opinion is the one that matters most, to me.

[Quix]

Thanks for another off the wall non-sequitur straw dog comment.

[metmom]

5. I can only share as God directs and allows me to share. I cannot force folks to drink at the trough of truth.

John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

GOD'S word is truth. Your opinion is irrelevant unless it lines up with that.

Your experiences may have been REAL but it doesn't go to follow that they are TRUE. And we are under NO obligation to believe they are true unless they line up with the word of God and since we either don't see that or you don't provide chapter and verse to substantiate them, then we aren't going to believe them.

4. I’m proud and humbled ......

Can't be both. If you're proud, it's high past time to get over yourself. Get your eyes off yourself and your accomplishments. God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.

8. Like taste, there’s evidently no accounting for idiocy, stupidity, cluelessness, stubbornness, arrogance, vengeance flinging etc. All that too will have to be God’s business.

Physician, heal thyself.

[Quix]

Thanks for your sweetness and light.

I don’t know how to heal the relationship.

If there is a Biblical way, I’m interested.

I take those Scriptures about offering one’s offering etc. seriously.