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Why Catholics cannot be Masons
Vivificat - From Contemplation to Action ^ | 10 March 2012 | TDJ

Posted on 03/10/2012 1:02:27 PM PST by Te骹ilo

Brethren, Peace be with you.

I want to add these to your reading list: a six-part interview of a former Freemason on why Catholics can’t become such published serially in the Colorado Catholic Herald:

Why Catholics Cannot Be Masons, Part 1

Why Catholics Cannot Be Masons, Pt. 2

Why Catholics Cannot Be Masons, Pt. 3

Why Catholics Cannot Be Masons, Pt. 4

Why Catholics Cannot Be Masons, Pt. 5

Why Catholics Cannot Be Masons, Pt. 6 (Conclusion)

- Purchase Why Catholics Cannot Be Masons from Amazon.com


TOPICS: Catholic; General Discusssion
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Typos. Blunders. Mine.
1 posted on 03/10/2012 1:02:31 PM PST by Te骹ilo
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To: YellowRoseofTx; Rashputin; StayoutdaBushesWay; OldNewYork; MotherRedDog; sayuncledave; ...

PING!


2 posted on 03/10/2012 1:03:51 PM PST by Te骹ilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: Te贸filo

THEN; WHo built all them damned cathedrals out of stone?..


3 posted on 03/10/2012 1:10:24 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: Te贸filo

But Catholics can be members of the Knights Of Columbus which is a Mason-like organization.


4 posted on 03/10/2012 1:10:36 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Te贸filo

Other that giving a hit to some obscure blog, why don’t you summarize for us?


5 posted on 03/10/2012 1:11:48 PM PST by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Te贸filo

Can protestants be members of K of C? Just asking...


6 posted on 03/10/2012 1:12:16 PM PST by lonestar (It takes a village of idiots to elect a village idiot.)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
The Roman Catholic theocracy can and does control the Knights of Columbus, but was never able to control the Freemasons or Knights Templar.

And that is the reason why Catholics are not supposed to be Masons.

7 posted on 03/10/2012 1:14:52 PM PST by oldtimer (uee)
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To: hosepipe

LOL

I was watching one of the anti mason conspiracy theory shows last night and I realized what a bunch of morons the “anti masonites” really are.

They claim our founders were all masons who wanted this new world order so they set up a government that did everything it could to prevent it.


8 posted on 03/10/2012 1:15:35 PM PST by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: oldtimer

I’m a 48 year old man and can’t be a girl scout.

(((shrug)))


9 posted on 03/10/2012 1:16:57 PM PST by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Mariner

1. My blog is not “obscure” just dimly lit. The penumbrae helps one to meditate.

2. I provided the links to the original publication, the Colorado Catholic Herald. You didn’t have to visit my blog. You could’ve gone straight to the original pub. I provided the reading list to my readers, as I file all such as, well, “reading lists” for their convenience.

3. Fair enough. Summary: Can Catholics become Masons? Not in good conscience. If one does, he cannot receive the Eucharist.

-Theo


10 posted on 03/10/2012 1:18:16 PM PST by Te骹ilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: hosepipe

Funny!


11 posted on 03/10/2012 1:18:49 PM PST by Te骹ilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Uh oh. Any Knights out there who may wish to take this one head on?


12 posted on 03/10/2012 1:19:28 PM PST by Te骹ilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: lonestar

To the best of my knowledge, no.


13 posted on 03/10/2012 1:19:56 PM PST by Te骹ilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: Te贸filo

That’s a shame, they throw one heck of a barbecue fundraiser around here. Pretty decent Brunswick Stew in the fall, too.

They stay up all night tending to both, when they’re not chanting rituals and dancing nekkid around the fire, that is.

Oops, are they going to kill me now?

(The above is satirical humor, for the benefit of those so impaired.)


14 posted on 03/10/2012 1:22:41 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry

A good friend of mine is Grand Pubbah for a local lodge. Great man and all, etc.

I suppose is like anything, how deep you go and what are one’s intentions. But that many men join these lodges to pursue esoteric gnosticism, well, that’s a fact.

And that’s not good.

-Theo


15 posted on 03/10/2012 1:27:47 PM PST by Te骹ilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: lonestar

Can protestants be members of K of C? Just asking...
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I think you still have to be a Catholic in good standing and be recommended by a Parish.

In 1950 or so our local Little League banquet was to be held in a Masonic Hall and I remember my grandfather being against it but don’t recall any debate/discussion at Mass or anything.
He finally ‘gave’ in and allowed me to go (I was getting an award of sorts) but as I remember, he didn’t like it.
He also got ‘mad’ at me in 1956 for going in the Navy while that ‘damned Republican’ (Ike) was president, saying there wasn’t any war going on so no need serving the R’s...
We were from the Southern tier of New York State and they were all quite Democrat and a lot of Catholics

Good man, my Grandfather, carried US Mail in Goshen NY for 40 some years and I do believe he never had a drivers license... Of course in those days the Mailman walked his beat... I could never imagine why he didn’t want to accept his ‘retirement’ from Ike but I ‘learned’ real quick when I figured what my reaction to a letter or meet with Carter and especially BO would bring from me.


16 posted on 03/10/2012 1:28:20 PM PST by xrmusn ((6/98) Don't ask me to steal FOR you and chances are pretty good I won't steal FROM you.)
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To: cripplecreek

I wouldn’t bet on that ;-) Moreover, I’d bet a 48 year old man could DEFINITELY become a BOY scout ;-)

Crazy world...


17 posted on 03/10/2012 1:35:45 PM PST by bigbob
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To: Te贸filo

Gnosticism, mysteries and secrets, the knowledge and understanding of which increases as one rises in the hierarchy.

Are there any other prominent fraternal organizations, that might be so described?

Why, yes there are. A few are even religions.


18 posted on 03/10/2012 1:36:56 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry

Why, yes but the Federal Reserve is not a religion...

-Theo.


19 posted on 03/10/2012 1:39:55 PM PST by Te骹ilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: Te贸filo
I have just connected to FR, saw your posting and read a few paragraphs of Mr Salza’s book. Let me tell you that I am a Freemason, have been for 41 years, I am also of the Catholic religion, converted 56 years ago, and must say after reading the first few paragraphs and reasoning of the reason you can't be Catholic and be a Freemason is “NONSENSE’.
First of all he states that he was solicited on the basis that the membership would have mercenary motives attached. He makes it sound as though the Mason that solicited him only used that reason for him to join. I doubt that happened in the way he would have us believe. I was specifically told by my mentor that if I thought joining Freemasonry was for monetary reasons or the like, do not bother attempting to join. Secondly, he could have easily refused entrance.
The next item that rings hollow is his claim that the restriction of wearing his wedding ring and crucifix into the lodge room would “offend the brothers in the lodge” is also nonsense. To prove that it is nonsense, please ask Mr Salza if he was allowed into the lodge hall after his initial degree and was he wearing his wedding ring and crucifix when he entered. It never was, is or hereafter an offensive thing to wear into a lodge hall. It is simply for the reason given to him when asked to remove these items. That nothing that could be offensive or defensive be brought into the lodge. It also means something that could be used as an offensive or defensive weapon. Members of all religions wear all kinds of religious items when attending lodge meetings and functions.
In closing, your attempt at reasons for a Catholic cannot be Masons and Mr Salza’s reasoning are purely nonsense and very troubling. In closing let me tell you that at the dinner of my final initiation, my Catholic Priest was asked to be a speaker. He graciously agreed, and assured me that I had no problem joining the FRATERNITY.
Sell crazy somewhere else, we're all filled up here.
20 posted on 03/10/2012 1:46:38 PM PST by bramps (Newt is the one)
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To: Te贸filo

Understood.

However, the charge of gnosticism is best wielded by those who don’t engage in a form of it themselves.


21 posted on 03/10/2012 1:46:53 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry

Hence, I can.

-Theo


22 posted on 03/10/2012 1:48:58 PM PST by Te骹ilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: bramps
The questions you have for Mr. Salza, you can ask him.

As for your membership in the lodge and your Catholic practice, I hear you.

However, I suggest you expand your research. You may start here:

Regent Restates Vatican's Anti-Masonry Position.

Membership in the Masons.

Your priest is wrong and so are you, and my stance is that of the Church. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

-Theo

23 posted on 03/10/2012 1:55:27 PM PST by Te骹ilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: Te贸filo

This is BS. Or at least widely misunderstood. I have 3 priests, 1 bishop, 4 nuns in my family and I am both a Catholic and a Master Mason. Before he died, my uncle Frank, a Roman Catholic priest for more than forty years was visiting at my home. Somehow, the subject of Masonry came up. He said to me, “Charlie, there’s nothing wrong with being a Mason as long as you don’t go into the higher degrees.” There is something in the Scottish Rite that is offensive to Catholics.If you are a Scottish Rite Mason, you know what it is. If you are not, I’m not going to tell you.
As any Mason can tell you, there are really only 3 degrees. All the rest, including the Shrinners are just extra stuff. Just a little more fellowship and charity works. Therefore, If you are a Catholic and want to be a Mason, stop with the degree of Master Mason and you are okay. I know I will get a lot of argument on this, but I think I have my information from a reliable source.


24 posted on 03/10/2012 1:56:24 PM PST by navyblue (<u>)
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To: Te贸filo

Catholics can most certainly become Masons. Your title is, as a matter of fact, wrong. The Catholic Church might not like it, their communicants can in fact become Masons. And still, as far as the Masons are concerned, stay practicing Catholics.

This may come as a newsflash to you, but a number of people who here are Masons. As one of them, suffice it to say that I find this more than a bit offensive.

I do not begrudge you your Catholicism. But you, apparently, have issues with, and begrudge me my Masonry.

I hereby invite you to commit an anatomic impossibility. I fully expect that you will decline.

But in any event, why don’t you show some respect for the views of others, and peddle your anti-Masonic views (and pimp your blog), somewhere else?


25 posted on 03/10/2012 1:58:44 PM PST by surely_you_jest (Mitt Romney is the latter day incarnation of Joe Isuzu.)
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To: Te贸filo

One word: Fatima.


26 posted on 03/10/2012 2:00:50 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: bramps

You are SO RIGHT ON brother!


27 posted on 03/10/2012 2:03:32 PM PST by navyblue (<u>)
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To: Te贸filo
feh...
28 posted on 03/10/2012 2:04:27 PM PST by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: navyblue
Again, I hear you. I understand what you're saying, but I also understand what the declaration is saying, particularly these lines:

"Therefore the Church's negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.

"It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 (cf. AAS 73 1981 pp. 240-241; English language edition of L'Osservatore Romano, 9 March 1981).

I find nothing here difficult to understand. It clearly says that all the priests in your family - may God bless them all - can become bishops - May God will it - and can approve your Masonic membership and interpret it in the most benign terms, and even then they would be unauthorized to do it and you would still be wrong.

If any one of your relatives is a canon laywer, ask him/her about it in all seriousness. Ask them not to spare your feelings.

-Theo

29 posted on 03/10/2012 2:04:57 PM PST by Te骹ilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: surely_you_jest

I think your answer pretty much sums up what the problem is between the Catholic Church and the Freemasons. One may be a Catholic Freemason and be perfectly in good standing with the Freemasons, but one cannot be a Catholic Freemason and be in good standing with the Catholic Church, religiously speaking.

I’m not an anti-Fremason, but I am an ex-Freemason. I left when I realized that the only-slightly-veiled Luciferian ideals of the organization were not in line with my faith.


30 posted on 03/10/2012 2:07:44 PM PST by SquarePants
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To: Te贸filo

Good Grief! Where is the “Oh no, not this sh*t again” graphic?


31 posted on 03/10/2012 2:07:46 PM PST by 230FMJ (...from my cold, dead, fingers.)
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To: surely_you_jest

I think I’ve been here longer than you have and I have no plans to leave. So, you are right, I will decline.

Nor am I surprised about the Masonic presence here which, I suppose, reflects that of the wider population.

I said nothing offensive. If you took offense, sorry, I just present the truth with the lights God gave me. If you wish for an apology, ask Barak for one.

-Theo


32 posted on 03/10/2012 2:07:57 PM PST by Te骹ilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: xrmusn
I miss the old characters like your grandfather.

Years ago we had one in my hometown that raised cattle and didn't eat beef.

He went into a short order place (in my uncle's grocery store) and ordered a hamburger. Everybody in town knew everything about everybody else, so... the waitress said, "You know you don't eat beef!" He, "I didn't order a beef burger, I ordered a hamburger."

They fried some ham and made him a ham burger.

33 posted on 03/10/2012 2:10:10 PM PST by lonestar (It takes a village of idiots to elect a village idiot.)
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To: surely_you_jest

P.S.

I stand the corrected. You’ve been a Freeper longer than I have.

Nevertheless, I’m not leaving, nor will I stop posting what I think is germane and worthy of discussion.

-Theo


34 posted on 03/10/2012 2:11:22 PM PST by Te骹ilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: lonestar

If you drink beer you can be a K o fC


35 posted on 03/10/2012 2:13:03 PM PST by reefdiver ("Let His day's be few And another takes His office")
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To: surely_you_jest

36 posted on 03/10/2012 2:20:21 PM PST by EEGator
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To: Te贸filo

Catholics most certainly can be Masons. Marsha Mason is Catholic. I’m not so sure about Perry Mason, though.


37 posted on 03/10/2012 2:25:59 PM PST by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (REPEAL OBAMACARE. Nothing else matters.)
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free

LOL!

I almost said, “for the record, Charles Manson is not a Catholic either” but then I said, oops!

-Theo


38 posted on 03/10/2012 2:29:05 PM PST by Te骹ilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: reefdiver
If you drink beer you can be a K o fC

If a man drinks beer, he'll be a great candidate for Grand Knight.

-Theo

39 posted on 03/10/2012 2:30:36 PM PST by Te骹ilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: EEGator

You too, sonny.


40 posted on 03/10/2012 2:37:21 PM PST by surely_you_jest (Mitt Romney is the latter day incarnation of Joe Isuzu.)
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To: surely_you_jest

That makes no sense, old man.


41 posted on 03/10/2012 2:39:58 PM PST by EEGator
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To: xrmusn

carried US Mail in Goshen NY.******* Brings back a memory of my old grandma on my fathers side...the closest she ever came to swearing was saying......Land of Goshen......Goshen was an area in the Old Testament.........


42 posted on 03/10/2012 2:48:15 PM PST by goat granny
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To: Te贸filo
I haven't asked you to leave. Nor did I pull the tired old wheeze of "seniority".

I haven't asked you to stop posting what you feel is germane for discussion. I'll even happily concede, without being asked, that generally what you posted _is_ germane for discussion.

What disturbs me is _how_ you posted it, or, to be more precise, the underlying assumptions of your post, as you posted it. And, apparently, I am not the only one that reacted way.

Pax tecum.

Or, for the rest of you who have taken offense at my post, Pax vobiscum.

43 posted on 03/10/2012 2:50:29 PM PST by surely_you_jest (Mitt Romney is the latter day incarnation of Joe Isuzu.)
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free

I am a Catholic and a Mason, 32nd degree. Never heard “you can’t be. Mason.”


44 posted on 03/10/2012 2:59:28 PM PST by whitedog57
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To: navyblue

question — if the higher degrees are wrong, doesn’t it mean that participating in the lower degrees actually perpetuates or promotes the higher degrees?


45 posted on 03/10/2012 3:05:40 PM PST by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: Te贸filo

You are absolutely correct that Church teaching forbids it. I’m a 3rd degree Knight just for the record. The statement that posted which is dated 1981 was reaffirmed two years in a statement from The Sacred Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith (then headed by our current Pope). It was reaffirmed for the specific reason that relatively new Code of Cannon Law did not discuss it. The fact that priests or laity are ignorant of it (or ignore it) is no excuse.


46 posted on 03/10/2012 3:08:12 PM PST by Bishop_Malachi (Liberal Socialism - A philosophy which advocates spreading a low standard of living equally.)
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To: Bishop_Malachi

Another point...never completely rely on a local priest for official Church teaching. There is a saying “Trust...but verify”. In this age of the Internet, it is easy enough to go to the source.


47 posted on 03/10/2012 3:10:22 PM PST by Bishop_Malachi (Liberal Socialism - A philosophy which advocates spreading a low standard of living equally.)
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To: oldtimer
"Knights Templar." --- err... what are you talking about? The Knights of the Temple were a key Catholic order, the first standing army of the West, that won Jerusalem and kept it for a while. They were initially true to the faith (and probably were until the end)

They were decimated by secular princes -- mostly the French King (who was the most powerful at that time and wanted the Templar's money...

So, yes, the Knights Templar were an intrinsic part of the theocracy

48 posted on 03/10/2012 3:12:55 PM PST by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: Bishop_Malachi

Sorry for the horrendous grammar of my first post. I should have reread it. Anyway, the basic point still stands. Official doctrine is that Masonic-membership is not allowed at any level. The sad fact that there are ignorant or indifferent members of the Holy Orders saying that it’s ok speaks volumes about the schismatic nature of our beloved Church.


49 posted on 03/10/2012 3:13:50 PM PST by Bishop_Malachi (Liberal Socialism - A philosophy which advocates spreading a low standard of living equally.)
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To: Cronos

The betrayal of the Knights Templar was one of the most disgraceful things in the history of our Church’s leadership. It is a very sad story.


50 posted on 03/10/2012 3:15:29 PM PST by Bishop_Malachi (Liberal Socialism - A philosophy which advocates spreading a low standard of living equally.)
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