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Do They Know Who They’re Messing With? (Obama Administration vs. the Catholic Church?)
CE.com ^ | March 15, 2012 | David Catron

Posted on 03/16/2012 9:48:53 PM PDT by Salvation

Do They Know Who They’re Messing With?

During a recent conversation about the HHS anti-conscience mandate, a friend who is neither Catholic nor particularly religious asked the following rhetorical question about the Obama administration:

Do these people know who they’re messing with?

Her point, of course, was that the Church has spent nearly two millennia crushing attempts by secular rulers to dictate the way it carries out its charitable ministries. Commanding Catholic hospitals to fund sterilizations, contraceptives, and abortifacients isn’t like twisting the arm of some roundheel congressman. It’s going to take more than the usual Chitown chicanery to cow a venerable and well-funded organization that has brought more than one emperor to his knees.

The Church’s charitable work has been seen as a threat to the power of the state as far back as the reign of Julian the Apostate. Julian was the Roman Emperor who tried to drag his subjects back to the crumbling altars of the old state gods a half a century after his uncle, Constantine I, had legitimized Christianity by converting to the new faith. Julian’s project didn’t go well, and he complained in a letter to one of his high priests that the effort was failing because “the impious Galileans support not only their own poor but ours as well.” What’s an Emperor to do with opponents whose tactics include such dirty tricks as lending aid and comfort to all who need it, including people with religious and political views that differ from their own?

Julian tried to counter the effect of such “impious” tactics by restructuring the imperial administration in such a way that it could compete with the “Galileans” in good works and thereby erode the connection in the public consciousness between charity and the Church. In a move that eerily echoes the progressive vernacular of our own age, Julian issued the Tolerance Edict of 362. The purpose of this decree, like calls for tolerance from modern liberals, was precisely the opposite of its ostensible intent. It re-privileged the old pagan cults, rescinded religious freedoms recognized by Constantine and attempted to sow dissention among Christian ranks by reigniting long-resolved doctrinal controversies.

The Tolerance Edict and a variety of similar edicts flopped. And, after Julian’s short reign ended, his successors gave up his pagan revival project as a bad job. But the meaning of Julian’s failure has been lost on many subsequent rulers, and Barack Obama is among the slow learners who refuse to heed the lessons of history. The president, like Julian, wishes to “transform” his country into a place in which every aspect of the citizen’s life is connected to and controlled by the state. He wants the federal government to be seen as the ultimate arbiter and provider of the electorate’s needs. Obviously, however, this can’t be managed while large and influential institutions like the Catholic Church and its charitable ministries remain in place.

And, where health care is concerned, Catholic institutions are definitely a force to be reckoned with. For example, they provide care to one in six patients treated in the United States every year. During 2010, America’s more than 600 Catholic facilities treated well over 100 million patients, including 19 million emergency patients, and 5.5 million inpatients. And much of the care received by these patients was provided at a loss. Of the 5.5 million in-patients treated by these hospitals during 2010, 3.3 million were covered by Medicare or Medicaid, both of which pay less than the amount it costs to provide treatment. Of the 19 million emergency patients treated at Catholic hospitals, a large percentage paid nothing at all.

So, what happens if the Catholic hospitals simply refuse to abandon their principles and decide to get out of the health care business? This possibility is not as remote as some may believe. Don’t forget what happened in Massachusetts when Catholic charities faced a similar choice relating to adoption. Rather than abandoning their principles they simply stopped offering adoption services. If they take the same course in health care, the effect on our medical delivery system will be disastrous. Not all of the Church’s 600 hospitals would disappear, of course. Some would be bought by large for-profit chains, like HCA. Others would be picked up by big not-for-profit systems. But at least a third would probably go out of business.

And that third will consist mostly of rural and inner city hospitals that treat the nation’s most vulnerable patients. These institutions will never show a positive bottom line because most of their patients are covered by government insurance or none at all. They are only open at present due to the good graces of the Catholic Church and its members. Once those good graces are withdrawn, there will be no buyers and these hospitals will be forced to shut their doors. Where will their patients go for care? The rural patients will have to travel for hours, in some cases, to access care. And many will die on the way. The inner city patients will go to hopelessly overcrowded safety net hospitals where patients already die in the waiting rooms.

Would the Church really withdraw from U.S. health care? In a recent letter to all the Catholic bishops of the United States, Cardinal Timothy Dolan wrote, “We have made it clear in no uncertain terms to the government that we are not at peace with its invasive attempt to curtail the religious freedom we cherish as Catholics and Americans. We did not ask for this fight, but we will not run from it.” In the same letter, Cardinal Dolan quotes supportive words from the Pope: “We recall the words of our Holy Father Benedict XVI to our brother bishops on their recent ad limina visit: ‘Of particular concern are certain attempts being made to limit that most cherished of American freedoms, the freedom of religion.’”

I, like my friend, am not a Catholic. And I am certainly no expert on Church politics. But the Cardinal’s letter to the bishops does not read like a bluff. It is true, of course, that the Church is no longer as powerful as it was in Julian’s day or 700 years later when the Holy Roman Emperor was forced to walk across the Alps and stand barefoot in the snow begging for an audience with Pope Gregory VII. But it is by no means without influence in the modern era, as the conspicuous absence of the Soviet Union attests. If Cardinal Dolan is not Gregory VII, neither is he Bart Stupak. When he writes, “As our ancestors did with previous threats, we will tirelessly defend the timeless and enduring truth of religious freedom,” I think he means it.

Nonetheless, it isn’t at all clear that Obama, his cadre of Chicago sycophants, and their accomplices in the media do understand “who they’re messing with.” If they think the absurd Sandra Fluke and their phony crusade against a fictional “war on women” will make the very real issue of religious liberty go away, they are even dumber than their policies suggest. In fact, it could mean they are so clueless that it may indeed be possible to beat them in November — even with Mitt Romney as the GOP presidential nominee.

David Catron is a health care finance professional who has spent more than twenty years working for and advising hospitals and medical practices. He blogs at Health Care BS.

This article was originally published at The American Spectator. You can visit them at http://spectator.org/


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: catholic; hhsmandate; hospitals
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Even the non-Catholics are speaking out for the Catholic Church.

I really don't think the Obama administration had any idea about who or what they were messing with when they proposed this HHS mandate.

In my opinion, it won't ever materialize.

1 posted on 03/16/2012 9:49:00 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; marshmallow; ...

Go! Cardinal Dolan. We’ve got your back!


2 posted on 03/16/2012 9:51:40 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

What matters to me is that they don’t VOTE with this administration. If the Catholic church makes a point of telling their parishioners which party is threatening their religious freedom (and hopefully reminding them that Obama’s GOP opponent is a Catholic), they’ll be doing themselves a far greater service than to simply give lip service to a few issues they have disagreements with.


3 posted on 03/16/2012 9:56:19 PM PDT by OrangeHoof (Obama: The Dr. Kevorkian of the American economy.)
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To: Salvation
Cardinal Dolan. We’ve got your back!

Yep!

4 posted on 03/16/2012 9:58:02 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Salvation

Messing with the Christian church, be it Catholic or Protestant is a GREAT mistake.


5 posted on 03/16/2012 9:59:10 PM PDT by doc1019 (Romney will never get my vote!)
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To: Salvation

“Three Irish Tenors - The Battle Hymn Of The Republic”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLun-Ca6b6s&feature=related

Luck of the Irish....even the Orangemen, Black Irish and Scots.


6 posted on 03/16/2012 10:03:19 PM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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To: doc1019

The longs and the shorts of it is that Christianity is the backbone which gave the G7 their level of advancement politically, economically and technologically. In comparison, today we can see the levels of advancement Islam has produced.

Islam does not have one nobel prize for a hard science achievement. Not one technological advancement.

Yet Obama openly supports it, something that is totally antithetical to Democracy and the US of A?

Ever notice how all current patents and great ideas trace back to New York ..... irrespective of how equual Obama thinks all people are?

What have his Kenyans, Indonesians or Muslms created? And he leads us as a nation? Now! Lets talk about a confused people who put him there!!!!


7 posted on 03/16/2012 10:04:04 PM PDT by himno hero (Obamas theme...Death to America...The crusaders will pay!)
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To: Salvation

Concerning this instrusion, for many Christians of different affliations and freedom loving non-Christians, we are “all Catholics.”

You are fighting this for all of us.


8 posted on 03/16/2012 10:04:12 PM PDT by NEWwoman (God Bless America)
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To: doc1019
Amen! The religious freedom point is the biggest issue for me.



9 posted on 03/16/2012 10:05:46 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Idle threat.

The lay staff at the US Conference of Catholic Bishops is mostly a collection of liberal social-justice democrat retreads. Many of them are former democrat staffers in Congress.

It is they who brief the bishops and develop the policy papers that resulted in the USCCB supporting Obamacare and going easy on Catholic democrat politicians who advocate and fund abortion.

In spite of all the current furor about Obama infringement on religious beliefs, the USCCB is firmly in the Obama camp on government healthcare, welfare, illegal immigration, and other democrat positions. And the Obama people know it.

The USCCB lay staff liberals fear Santorum (who actually walks the Catholic talk) more than they worry about Obama who has delivered the goods for them.


10 posted on 03/16/2012 10:06:54 PM PDT by oldbill
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To: Salvation

http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2012pres/03/20120316g.html


11 posted on 03/16/2012 10:08:09 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife ("For the sake of our party we must stand united, whoever our nominee is."-Sarah Palin)
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To: oldbill

Good grief, where are you getting all that information?


12 posted on 03/16/2012 10:10:39 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: oldbill

Look for staff changes soon. When the Bishops came out 100% against this mandate, I think everyone was shocked at first.

Now — as I said above — we’ve got their backs.

God Cardinal Dolan and the Bishops!


13 posted on 03/16/2012 10:11:58 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

“So, what happens if the Catholic hospitals simply refuse to abandon their principles and decide to get out of the health care business?”

So, what happens if the Catholic hospitals simply refuse to abandon their principles and decide to carry on as usual?


14 posted on 03/16/2012 10:12:47 PM PDT by Mortrey (Impeach President Soros)
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To: Salvation

“Julian tried to counter the effect of such “impious” tactics by restructuring the imperial administration in such a way that it could compete with the “Galileans” in good works and thereby erode the connection in the public consciousness between charity and the Church.”

An interesting metaphor for socialism.


15 posted on 03/16/2012 10:15:09 PM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: doc1019

“Messing with the Christian church, be it Catholic or Protestant is a GREAT mistake.”

I wish I saw more protestant pastors standing up with their Catholic brothers at rallies.


16 posted on 03/16/2012 10:16:01 PM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: Salvation

Abortion is the biggest point for me, religious freedom comes in second. Religion can be an internal thing, a thing that can be held even under prosecution. However, abortion is an external event, the death of a child.


17 posted on 03/16/2012 10:16:33 PM PDT by doc1019 (Romney will never get my vote!)
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To: Mortrey

Two very good questions and I doubt that any of us have a “cut and dried” answer.


18 posted on 03/16/2012 10:20:08 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: ModelBreaker

Considering the schism between the Catholic church and the Protestant church you would think that there would not be many Protestant pastors standing with the Catholic church. However, this is a common cause and, without exception, most Protestant congregations are standing with the Catholic church on this one.


19 posted on 03/16/2012 10:27:53 PM PDT by doc1019 (Romney will never get my vote!)
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To: Salvation

You need to start doing some research - like start off with CCHD head Ralph McCloud, and then read up on his predecessor, John Carr.


20 posted on 03/16/2012 10:29:11 PM PDT by oldbill
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To: Salvation

Either I should say Go Cardinal Dolan and the Bishops!

or God bless Cardinal Dolan and the Bishops!

Take your pick. LOL!


21 posted on 03/16/2012 10:32:50 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: oldbill

Then how about their communication director who came through last year with a couple of dumb answers?

I still think — the whole scene of the Bishops is changing. Benedict has his thumb on them. Stay tuned.


22 posted on 03/16/2012 10:35:20 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
Do They Know Who They’re Messing With? (Obama Administration vs. the Catholic Church?)

The bishops have compromised their authority by supporting Democrats and kowtowing to government demands for decades. They think the bishops are too far compromised to be followed by their congregations. I pray they are wrong... but they are not very far wrong.

May God save us.

23 posted on 03/16/2012 10:36:09 PM PDT by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: Mortrey

slowly but surely since the late 70s,every single Catholic hospital in nyc closed down and many of us believe it was due to the “selectively” slow rate of medicaid reimbursement to these institutions along with them taking any and every uninsured patient .
Now some will say it was due to mismanagement but then how are Bellevue,Coney Island and all the rest of nyc HHC staying open with their track record of waste etc ?
The closure of the last one standing at that time,StVincents remains grievous.


24 posted on 03/16/2012 10:41:47 PM PDT by catroina54
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To: Salvation

bumping for later


25 posted on 03/16/2012 10:47:17 PM PDT by redhead (Alaska: Step out of the bus and into the food chain.)
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To: Salvation

Neither you, Simon, nor the fifty thousand, nor the Romans, nor the Jews, nor Judas, nor the twelve, nor the priests, nor the scribes, nor doomed Jerusalem itself,

understand what power is,
understand what glory is,
understand at all.


26 posted on 03/16/2012 10:56:53 PM PDT by EyeGuy (2012: When the Levee Breaks)
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To: Salvation

Bump


27 posted on 03/16/2012 11:11:24 PM PDT by AmericaUnite (Jesus bent down and began to write on the ground with his finger. John Ch 8)
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To: Salvation

great photo. looks like he’s telling Satan to beat it.


28 posted on 03/16/2012 11:15:58 PM PDT by RitchieAprile
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To: Salvation

We are ALL obligated to support Cardinal Dolan & our Bishops with prayers, fasting, alms-giving & righteousness. The Cardinal is a big man but he needs our support when carrying the Cross for all of us, >especially in this battle with beelzebub.


29 posted on 03/17/2012 12:05:36 AM PDT by gghd (A Pro-life Palinista & a member of the NRA)
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To: Salvation
even with Mitt Romney as the GOP presidential nominee.

This is scary because Romney would make it a moot point by not discussing the issue of relgious freedoms in this case but enforcing the gay mandate while the GOP would sit there and do nothing because an alleged GOP member is doing it.

30 posted on 03/17/2012 2:32:22 AM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: Salvation; ModelBreaker
Even the non-Catholics are speaking out for the Catholic Church.

If you mean non-Catholic Christians, they didn't vote for Obama in the first place, of course they are against him. They are "guaranteed" to vote against him in 2012, Catholics will probably vote for Obama and his policies.

31 posted on 03/17/2012 3:18:26 AM PDT by ansel12 ( Romney is a Mormon Bishop, as was his father, his uncle was in line to be the Mormon Prophet. Pope))
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To: Salvation
In my opinion, it won't ever materialize.

They're forging ahead with it even now. It looks like the Catholics (and other Christians) will get a chance to exercise some Biblicly-ordained disobedience.

32 posted on 03/17/2012 4:07:11 AM PDT by trebb ("If a man will not work, he should not eat" From 2 Thes 3)
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To: Salvation
The Obama administration knows well enough who they are fighting and they have a strategy: to marginalize the Catholic Church and other religious organizations by forcing them into exiting their various social welfare missions or restricting services to their adherents.

The loss of services to the general public will be spun as due to the narrow mindedness of religious organizations in not wanting to follow rules that everyone else does and that have wide support from the public. The loss of health care services from Catholic and other religious providers will sew chaos and will accelerate the imposition of a single payer system, the ultimate goal of Obama and his minions.

33 posted on 03/17/2012 5:10:38 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: EyeGuy

The twelve began to understand when the tongues of the Spirit rested on them on Pentecost.


34 posted on 03/17/2012 5:24:48 AM PDT by rwa265 ("This is My Beloved Son, Listen to Him.")
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To: gghd

The rosary wouldn’t hurt either...Our Blessed Mother repeatedly has asked us to pray for peace. and she does have her Son’s ear!


35 posted on 03/17/2012 5:43:41 AM PDT by RebelTXRose
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To: oldbill
The USCCB lay staff liberals fear Santorum (who actually walks the Catholic talk) more than they worry about Obama who has delivered the goods for them.

You have hit the nail right on the thumb.


36 posted on 03/17/2012 5:59:41 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: ModelBreaker

I wish I saw more protestant pastors standing up with their Catholic brothers at rallies.

Protestant pastors are more democratic and will “go along to get along”. Catholic Bishops get their marching orders from Pope and will fall in line.


37 posted on 03/17/2012 6:04:02 AM PDT by Donald Rumsfeld Fan
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To: Salvation

Obama is a berserker, he doesn’t care one bit about the effects of his actions. Obama and the Democrats consider his re-election a done deal ordained by some secular power greater than God.


38 posted on 03/17/2012 6:14:48 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (Romney just makes me tired all over.)
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To: pgyanke
the bishops have compromised their authority by supporting Democrats and kowtowing to government demands for decades. They think the bishops are too far compromised to be followed by their congregations. I pray they are wrong... but they are not very far wrong.

The "Spirit of Vatican II" has been muted. Church discipline has been restored. B16 and his Bishops call the shots. It's a new day.

39 posted on 03/17/2012 6:19:57 AM PDT by Donald Rumsfeld Fan
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To: Salvation

I really find myself rocking back and forth between hope and despair in all of this.

When the Soros administration really ramped up on this mandate not too long ago, I found myself wondering why they would want to rile up the populace at this stage.

Finally, I realized that their approach is to keep everyone’s attention focused on the Catholic church and its alleged goal of keeping everyone from having any fun by dictating how they should behave sexually. And, of course, Rick Santorum is an agent of this evil Catholic Empire.

Our culture and our infotainment outlets are obsessed with sex, so it’s easy to keep attention focused on any issue that involves sex. In the meantime, the Soros administration goes about putting through all of its programs that are completely changing our republic to their communist utopia.

Glenn Beck describes this change perfectly here:

http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/03/16/the-story-behind-obama%E2%80%99s-doc-%E2%80%9Cthe-road-we%E2%80%99ve-traveled%E2%80%9D/


40 posted on 03/17/2012 6:26:00 AM PDT by Bigg Red (Pray for our republic.)
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To: oldbill
CCHD is notoriously liberal. But they don't tell the bishops what to do, and USCCB doesn't tell the bishops what to do, either (it's supposed to be the other way around).

All of the defeatist garbage ("the bishops are going to cave anyway") around here really does nobody any good. You think it's already a lost cause? Trust me, Ave Maria and EWTN aren't dropping their lawsuits, no matter what "accommodation" the USCCB thinks it can arrange. And it only takes one lawsuit in federal court to kill this thing off.

There's no room for "caving" anyway on some of this stuff. Catholics can't be in the business of financing abortion and sterilization, period, end of story.

41 posted on 03/17/2012 6:42:54 AM PDT by Campion ("It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins." -- Franklin)
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To: oldbill
Idle threat.

Not in my Parish.

Even the local Priest {more of a liberal than I'd like} has his righteous up and more regular Church goers are both getting the message as well as going to vote against this halfrican, mooselimb, communist, prick.

I'm sure you will be the first to offer an apology to all the Church going Catholics {as compared to those that were dipped in Holy Water when they were a couple of months old} after they vote obummer out in November.

42 posted on 03/17/2012 7:09:32 AM PDT by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorists savages.)
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To: catroina54
From the article...."Not all of the Church’s 600 hospitals would disappear, of course. Some would be bought by large for-profit chains, like HCA. Others would be picked up by big not-for-profit systems. But at least a third would probably go out of business." The Obama administration would simply see this as "collateral damage" for what it would gain by implementing and controlling health costs in order to "launder" resources of money to areas other than medical...which they will indeed do.

It's never about the untreated poor, never, it's about the means of controlling revenue where they want it...and the less which goes to the actual care of the public the better in their eyes.

So I don't see the Bishops outcry affecting this in the long run.....the administration knew this would be an issue for a time..and then fade out....they are "banking" on it.

43 posted on 03/17/2012 7:10:11 AM PDT by caww
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To: USS Alaska
I'm sure you will be the first to offer an apology to all the Church going Catholics

Today is St Patrick's Day. All over America there will be cardinals and bishops dining with abortionists like Kerry, Leahy, Biden, the Kennedys, Murray, Casey, O'Malley, Lynch, Connolly, Moran, Brady, and more. When these bishops stop being duplicitous and risk their tax exemptions to defend the truth and excommunicate these public sinners, maybe lay Catholics will stop backing Obama and his "social justice" (i.e. Marxist) agenda.

As of now, in spite of Condomcare, these bishops will not take a stand against democrats' agendae in areas like welfare, illegal immigration, ACORN fundng and all the rest. When they do, maybe then the all the Church going Catholics can apologize to me for their overwhelming support for Obama since 2008.

44 posted on 03/17/2012 8:09:13 AM PDT by oldbill
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To: RebelTXRose

RebelTXRose> You are right! The Rosary is such a Good&Powerful prayer that Holy Mother Church makes available a >Plenary or/and Partial Indulgence when the Rosary is prayed.
Pope John Paul II (That ‘moniker’ sounds like the CEO of a real big outfit) in “Rosarium Virginis Mariae” =

“Blessed Rosary of Mary, sweet chain linking us to God”
#39...”The Church has always attributed particular efficacy to this prayer, entrusting to the Rosary, to its choral recitation and to its constant practice, the most difficult problems. At times when Christianity itself seemed under threat, its deliverance was attributed to the power of this prayer, and Our Lady of the Rosary was acclaimed as the one whose intercession brought salvation.”

+#41...”The family that prays together stays together. The Holy Rosary, by age-old tradition, has shown itself particularly effective as a prayer which brings the family together. Individual family members, in turning their eyes towards Jesus, also regain the ability to look one another in the eye, to communicate, to show solidarity, to forgive one another and to see their covenant of love renewed in the Spirit of God.”


45 posted on 03/17/2012 8:10:59 AM PDT by gghd (A Pro-life Palinista & a member of the NRA)
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To: USS Alaska
I'm sure you will be the first to offer an apology to all the Church going Catholics

Today is St Patrick's Day. All over America there will be cardinals and bishops dining with abortionists like Kerry, Leahy, Biden, the Kennedys, Murray, Casey, O'Malley, Lynch, Connolly, Moran, Brady, and more. When these bishops stop being duplicitous and risk their tax exemptions to defend the truth and excommunicate these public sinners, maybe lay Catholics will stop backing Obama and his "social justice" (i.e. Marxist) agenda.

As of now, in spite of Condomcare, these bishops will not take a stand against democrats' agendae in areas like welfare, illegal immigration, ACORN fundng and all the rest. When they do, maybe then the all the Church going Catholics can apologize to me for their overwhelming support for Obama since 2008.

46 posted on 03/17/2012 8:13:01 AM PDT by oldbill
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To: Salvation

The Muzzie is going to find out the hard way that screwing with the Catholic church is one of the worst ideas he ever had.


47 posted on 03/17/2012 9:43:11 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: oldbill
OldBill,

You really need to check out your sources of information. What you are posting is old. Really old.

The Catholic Bishops and ACORN (cut off funding of ACORN)
Bishop discusses reasons behind cutoff of ACORN funding
Good News: Bishops Cut Off ACORN Funding!

PS. You can see that I am considerate and did your research for you......LOL!

48 posted on 03/17/2012 10:28:37 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: OrangeHoof; All

” What matters to me is that they don’t VOTE with this administration. If the Catholic church makes a point of telling their parishioners which party is threatening their religious freedom (and hopefully reminding them that Obama’s GOP opponent is a Catholic), they’ll be doing themselves a far greater service than to simply give lip service to a few issues they have disagreements with.”

Folks, we have a WINNER!!


49 posted on 03/17/2012 10:41:52 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: oldbill
When they do, maybe then the all the Church going Catholics can apologize to me for their overwhelming support for Obama since 2008.

your grasp of statistics is flawed.

In 2008 while CINOs {Catholics in name only} voted for obummer, Catholics that regularly attend Sunday Mass voted for mcpain 53-46.

50 posted on 03/17/2012 11:20:34 AM PDT by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorists savages.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]


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