Posted on 03/17/2012 7:26:45 AM PDT by GonzoII
Paul does not cease being a Jew, and we might even say that, since the Law—properly read— ends in obedience to Jesus, that Judaism is the only true religion. Our God is the God of Abraham , Issac and Jacob, not the god of the philosophers, of Plato and Aristotle, as Pascal remind us. Since the beginning, there have always been those who, like Marcion, wants us to cut out ties to the Jews. But here we are and here they are.
"And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, YE ALSO SHALL SIT UPON TWELVE THRONES, JUDGING THE TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL." Mat. 19:28.
So, Peter and the 11 were to go to all nations, preaching the kingdom gospel to all people, but when Christ returns to set up His kingdom, they will be judging the 12 tribes of Israel. Does that make any sense? The only way it makes sense is IF Israel HAD ACCEPTED CHRIST as their Messiah, THEN the 12 would have gone to all nations, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, Christ would have returned, set up His Kingdom, and Israel would have become a nation of priests and a blessing to all nations. But we know that Israel REJECTED Christ. And they were blinded, set aside, became Lo Ammi, and the Kingdom is now in abeyance, until the fulness of the Gentiles be brought in. Which is where Paul enters. And the Church the Body of Christ. And the gospel of the grace of God.
If Christ promised them in Mat. 19:28 that they would be judging the 12 tribes of Israel during the Millineal reign, and IF Christ told them to "go NOT into the way of the Gentiles" (10:5), and IF Christ emphasizes in 15:24 that He was sent to Israel- "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel", then what would common sense tell you they believed? NOT to go to the Gentiles with any kingdom gospel until those they are going to judge one day (Israel) is FIRST brought to belief.
Mark, you're giving me tradition as proof they went outside Israel. That is not what the Bible says. They did EXACTLY as commanded BY CHRIST.
It does not say "judging JUST the twelve tribes". It also does not say that everyone else (the nations of the world) will not be judged or by whom they will be judged.
Let me ask you this: how will the Gentile Nations be blessed during the Millenial reign of Christ? Or do you believe there will be actual Nations on this earth for Christ’s 1000 year Kindgom? And just what does the covenant God made with Abraham mean? One more question: Why twelve disciples? Why not 11 or 15? Or when Judas betrayed Christ and went to his own, why was he replaced by Matthias? Why was it necessary to replace him when they did?
This remark and those following are peculiar. What are you driving at? Our original discussion was about the RCC holding onto elements of the Law after it was done away with. Those elements, papalism (chief priest), sacerdotalism (priesthood), sacraments (sacrifices), cathedrals (temples) were all shadows of the real thing, Jesus, but have been wrongly continued. You accused Protestantism of the same thing. Does this mean that you concur that the Law is gone, but certain groups (including Rome) are holding onto a Christian/Jewish hybridism?
The thread is about the KJV tipping its hat to the Apocrypha, thereby authenticating the Catholic version of the Bible. I simply said they don't even follow the Bible they claim to have delivered. That claim still stands in spite of the obscure remarks you have made.
Uh... a much more integral... uh... "role"?
The Church does not teach, nor do I believe in Millennialism.
So...exactly what does your church do with about 3/4 of the Bible? I’m asking a valid question here, not being rude.
The same thing we do with the other 1/4. We compile, preserve, defend and interpret it.
From the CCC: 672 Before his Ascension Christ affirmed that the hour had not yet come for the glorious establishment of the messianic kingdom awaited by Israel which, according to the prophets, was to bring all men the definitive order of justice, love and peace. According to the Lord, the present time is the time of the Spirit and of witness, but also a time still marked by "distress" and the trial of evil which does not spare the Church and ushers in the struggles of the last days. It is a time of waiting and watching.
680: Christ the Lord already reigns through the Church, but all the things of this world are not yet subjected to him. The triumph of Christ's kingdom will not come about without one last assault by the powers of evil.
681: On Judgment Day at the end of the world, Christ will come in glory to achieve the definitive triumph of good over evil which, like the wheat and the tares, have grown up together in the course of history.
I reject your contentions because of one very strong Catholic contention, which is that there is no absolute break between Judaism and Christianity. Indeed, we think that so much in the Torah, both ceremonial and in doctrine , is a foreshadowing of the Gospel. The priesthood, which you reject, is the continuation of a tradition that goes back to Abraham, foreshadowed in the priest-king of Salem Mechezidak, whose offering of bread and wine, are, so we think, a foreshadowing of the Eucharist, and the todah—thanks-giving offering institutioned by David, who is the figure of the Christ. We have always rejected the notion of a hereditary class,, like the Levites, and the need for a temple. But we don’t reject the broader notion of the priesthood of the people of God, and the narrower one of the sacrerdotal priesthood or the re-presentation of the Lord’s sacrifice on Calvary in the mass.
The “re-prentation of the Lord’s sacrifice on Calvary in the mass” is one of the abominations the believers in Jesus Christ, alone, reject. The Scriptures are so patently clear a once-and-for-all sacrifice in His blood was sufficient that any “re-presentation” of it is a fabrication of men, a true blasphemy. Heb. 7:27, “Jesus...who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did ONCE FOR ALL when He offered up Himself.” One of us is grossly mistaken here, my FRiend.
Every believer is in a “priesthood nation” insofar as we can speak of the grace granted to anyone drawn into the family of God (IPet 2:9, “But you are a chosen race, a royal prieshood, a holy nation, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of the darkness into His marvelous light.”
There is no ceremonial priesthood. There is no absolution of sin by other men. There is no pope. There are no indulgences. There are no sacraments. There is no veneration of Saints. There is only Jesus.
Are you talking about those that died in the wilderness because of their unbelief?
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with ALL spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ."Eph. 1:3. "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus." Eph. 2:6.
There is not a man, an organization, a ceremonial priesthood, a pope, an indulgence, a sacrament, a Saint, or an absolution of sin by other men that would only stand in the way of our direct standing IN CHRIST.
Is not Christ the temple? Is he not the head and We the body?
If you will notice, the Book of Hebrews, being to the Hebrews, means the middle wall of partition that separated Jews from Gentiles during the dispensation of the grace of God is back up. If Jews and Gentiles are separated again, that means something MAJOR has occured for the wall of partition to be back up. Think about it..
We are a temple made without hands. Located in the heavenlies. There is no temple made with hands to go to in order to find God.
Absolutely right. It was not a "mistake", or the 11 acting outside God's will, that made Matthias the 12th Disciple. They prayed for days about this, and put it in God's hands. "And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two THOU HAST CHOSEN." Acts 1:24.
But my question was, why 12? Why was there a NECESSITY for there to be 12 Disciples? The answer comes in the next chapter of Acts. Chapter 2 and also Chapter 3.
Which will also answer the first part of your post to me regarding Abraham.
I have no idea what "Protestantism" is; I don't believe you do either. But the Scriptures omit hundreds of things people believe in. It omits Muhammad, Joseph Smith, Buddha, Krishna, the Yin Yang, LSD, the Beatles, etc. To stick with that which the Scriptures address as true and reliable is not being negative, it is simply avoiding the vain imaginings of men.
Apostolic succession does not appear in Scripture. The RCC has added this and a great deal more to the Bible's simple message of faith in Christ, granted to us by God's grace. It is your group's "traditional views" added to the Scriptures which we have no obligation to accept.
In the end we all shall see whether this was simply a harmless exercise or deadly.
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