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The Damned Reject the Light...John 3 pt 18
http://billrandles.wordpress.com/2012/03/15/jesus-wasnt-sent-to-condemn-the-world-john-3-pt-16/ ^ | 03-17-12 | Bill Randles

Posted on 03/17/2012 6:19:50 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. (John 3:18-20)

The new birth that Jesus spoke of in his talk with Nicodemus, is good news. We can start all over again with God. We can become ‘as children” again. We can be born again unto God, and walk in a new relationship with Him as His children. We can enter into a hope of eternal glory, the very glory which by the fall of man we have all fallen short of. God the Father has made a way to bring us into the fellowship of His Son.

This was all made possible by the gift of love, that is, the offering of the Son of God for our sins.

All sins can be forgiven,All of the evil things we have done against God and one another has been accounted for, and paid in full, in the sacrifice Jesus made, on Calvary. Jesus died for all sins and for every sinner, “…once and for all, the just for the unjust to bring us to God…(I Peter 3:18).

But receiving the gift of the new birth requires that like the risen Lazarus, we step out of our own tomb of darkness and walk into the light of God .

What does it mean to walk in the Light of Jesus?

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.(John 8:12)

What does light do? Light reveals things, it allows for things to be seen as they truly are. This is the effect of the coming of Jesus, “The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.“(Isaiah 9:2).

Jesus revealed by his words, and his works, “the only true God”. Now we know fully what God is like, for in seeing Jesus we have seen the Father. “The darkness is past and the true light now shineth…”. The God Jesus reveals is a loving Father, merciful and gracious, healing, and resurrecting. His words are life, he knows about us, our struggles, fears, and faults.

Jesus also revealed that God is also a Holy and Righteous Judge who will one day summons all mankind before his throne of judgment. Most of what we know biblically of hellfire comes from Jesus. We get “weeping and gnashing of teeth”, and “cast out into outer darkness” from the words of Jesus!

Jesus also reveals the true character of men. By Jesus, the secrets of men’s hearts are fully revealed, and it isn’t a flattering picture. Men are fallen, blind, hypocritical, and murderous. They are selfish, and unforgiving, and estranged from God by their sins.

Jesus shatters the world’s estimation of itself, he contradicts its proud humanism entirely, exposing the utter spiritual and moral bankruptcy of even the ‘best’ of men. He holds back nothing in his critical analysis of the hearts of all men….

That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.(Mark 7:20-23)

His cross is perhaps the greatest offense of all, because it presupposes profound human guilt, as well as being a statement our human inability to atone for ourselves.The cross is also a profound revelation of the Divine hatred of sin. Jesus died for our sins, as a substitute and an offering to God.

We look at the tortured figure shuttering on the cross in agony, abandoned by all, even by his God, mocked and humiliated by his enemies, and we breathe a whispered prayer,”Dear Lord is this what it took to save me from my sins? Is this how bad sin really is? Could the breach between God and man be so great that it took this to bring us to you?”.

But the wicked are offended by this revelation of Jesus. They take an exception to the exposure of the true nature of man as revealed in Jesus, and especially in His cross. The light is too glaring, the exposure is uncomfortable because it is condemning, even damning.

In fact many spend their lives fleeing the light of Jesus, shutting the shades, closing the door, and averting their gaze whenever the light happens to shine. They don’t want to be told that man is fallen, and that they need to be rescued from their own sins.

The call to be “born again” is in itself an insult.” Why should I start all over again,I am good enough as I am!” People don’t want to be ‘born again’ if it means confessing their sins to God, or admitting their sinfulness and spiritual bankruptcy.

Remember what Paul the apostle told us by the Holy Spirit in Romans chapter 1. The ungodly are under Divine wrath because they “Suppress the truth in unrighteousness” They fully know that they were created by a personal God, that they have broken or failed to live up to any moral code, and furthermore, that because of this, they are liable to judgment.

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;(Romans 1:28)

Jesus said that the real condemnation of the wicked is that when light came into the world, “…men loved the darkness more than they loved the light…”. They actually love to “not know” the truth about themselves, they do not want to be seen by God, nor are they willing to be known for who they really are. They refuse to see themselves in the light of God.

This is a truly deep look into the psychology of godless man, that he prefers fantasy and illusion to truth, for the truth humbles him, it shows him to be a dependant and needy creature. He doesn’t want to face a judge, so he imagines there isn’t an ultimate one. Man wants to craft his own rules, his own personal ethic, therefore he resents and even hates the commandments of God.

He would create his own world, on his own terms, and define his own righteousness, if only it were possible. He doesn’t want to know the “Right way”. Man crafts his own plan of salvation, but always one that exalts man, never one that humbles him. Fallen man hates the light of Jesus.

Jesus warns us that this will be the basis for the final judgment, the love or hatred, acceptance or rejection of the Light that came into the world.


TOPICS: Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: heaven; hell; jesus; judgment

1 posted on 03/17/2012 6:20:00 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles
“Various are the pleas and arguments which men of corrupt minds frequently urge against yielding obedience to the just and holy commands of God.”

-Reverend George Whitfield
2 posted on 03/17/2012 6:32:17 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: pastorbillrandles

BTTT!


3 posted on 03/17/2012 6:36:57 PM PDT by 444Flyer (~Leaning on the everlasting arms~ (Deuteronomy 33:27) (John 3))
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To: pastorbillrandles

Yep, no other path..and even Christians have trouble with His message as it applies to the world today, it is because as you say the when the light of God shines on us we can become blinded like Paul or man’s eyes are so dark the light cannot enter the soul and the hatred of God and the reality he brings is seen as reality, because the world has not developed faith..The Bible is the beginning, and only the beginning, without seeking God with all the heart mind and soul the relationship with God which the Bible was intended to bring, is as seeds on hard ground..
It is the living relationship with God through Christ that we are tuned to His ways through our suffering for rightiousness,,being that all rightiousness is fulfilled there are many levels of fulfilled faith, however as followers of Christ we can expect a reality as that which Christ showed on Earth, ie..the birds of the field do not sow or reap for food, no need to worry about tomorrow(retirement etc) Mankind has certainly warped the reality which Christ lived before us, the disciples barely understood..another perfect choice of our risen Lord, But to those who endure and are not afraid to be ridiculed and persecuted for Christ sake, who seek Him in all things in all ways, who accepts Christ sacrifice for the remission of our sins..we will walk upright before the throne as His children..no longer crippled in our sin, all I can say is since alpha and omega have meaning, if we find ourselves in Eden and the Lord says do not eat the fruit of this tree lest you die, we now know Father your words create, you are reality, else the circle starts again if God be so kind to allow for the redemption of the dead through eternity..
Peace in Christ, thank you for your words my friend..


4 posted on 03/17/2012 6:44:06 PM PDT by aces
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To: pastorbillrandles
The new birth that Jesus spoke of in his talk with Nicodemus, is good news. We can start all over again with God. We can become ‘as children” again. We can be born again unto God, and walk in a new relationship with Him as His children. We can enter into a hope of eternal glory, the very glory which by the fall of man we have all fallen short of. God the Father has made a way to bring us into the fellowship of His Son.

When was our soul/spirit created? Even back in Genesis when the Adam was formed he was not alive until the 'breath of life' means soul, was breathed into his nostrils. When does 'life' begin? Well according to Luke the doctor, in describing the 'Conception' of Christ the instant His Soul/Spirit was placed in Mary, John the Baptist 6 months in the womb of Elizabeth recognized the presence of Jesus.

Was Jesus 'born again', or was Jesus born from ABOVE as is spelled out in John 3:13

The book of Jude is about those fallen angels of Genesis 6 that left their estate and will not pass through this 'flesh' age as is stated by Christ first requirement just to see the kingdom of God.

5 posted on 03/17/2012 6:44:13 PM PDT by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: pastorbillrandles

Amen pastor. We are at the door of the new age that only Jesus Christ can and will open for those who believe Him and follow Him. He is very good indeed and has warned us of all these evil days in His Word of God, the holy Scriptures so we can be aware of the times and seasons and have our hope solely in Him alone. May the good Lord bless and keep you and yours.


6 posted on 03/17/2012 6:47:08 PM PDT by kindred (Jesus Christ is the Lord God and Messiah of Israel, a present help in time of trouble.)
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To: Just mythoughts

Jesus did not need to be “born again” (in this very philosophical argumenmt) becuase 1) He is God and therefore perfect, Holy, Righteous, 2)He was never dead like us, before spiritual birth, because he never sinned. His connection to His Father was only ever broken (on the Cross-Halleluia) for our Sake, not His own! ~What amazing Love.


7 posted on 03/17/2012 7:36:31 PM PDT by JSDude1
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To: pastorbillrandles

Doesn’t it seem odd that Jesus taught a Hebrew prayer in “Our Father”? There’s not a shred of Christianity in it.


8 posted on 03/17/2012 7:51:23 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: JSDude1

:)

1 Peter 1:19-21

King James Version (KJV)

“But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot...”


9 posted on 03/17/2012 7:52:07 PM PDT by 444Flyer (~Leaning on the everlasting arms~ (Deuteronomy 33:27) (John 3))
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To: pastorbillrandles

Pastor—it seems that only mankind can be redeemed by the shed blood of Jesus. Those fallen, dark angels who fell with Lucifer are condemned forever. We humans have tje choice too but although we all are born sinners we can repent and by faith through Christ be redeemed. Not so the fallen angels it seems—they cannot be saved by the shed blood of Jesus as humans can. If someone can prove that is incorrect through biblical scripture please do share,


10 posted on 03/17/2012 7:59:42 PM PDT by tflabo (Truth or tyranny)
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To: pastorbillrandles

I have never heard anyone curse and make light of the name of Jesus and His belivers as Howard Stern and the athiests that work for Him.


11 posted on 03/17/2012 8:05:55 PM PDT by reefdiver ("Let His day's be few And another takes His office")
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To: JSDude1
Jesus did not need to be “born again” (in this very philosophical argumenmt) becuase 1) He is God and therefore perfect, Holy, Righteous, 2)He was never dead like us, before spiritual birth, because he never sinned. His connection to His Father was only ever broken (on the Cross-Halleluia) for our Sake, not His own! ~What amazing Love.

John 3 is probably one of the most misread Scriptures, and yet the answer is given in John 3:13.

Peter says in IIPeter 3 there are three different heaven/earth ages. The 'world' or 'age' that WAS according to Peter was destroyed. We are not told the 'date' when the world/age that WAS began or how long it lasted. What we are told is that Lucifer/Satan rebelled and a number of the sons of God followed him. Lucifer/Satan the first rebel was judged and sentenced to death.

Solomon in writing the book of Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done, is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, 'See, this is new?' it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

Paul then gives a slightly different approach in Hebrews in this 'born from above' (NOT again) 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

So when was the 'soul/spirit' created? There is not one word in the description of the formation of the flesh body of the Adam, that hints or suggests his soul/spirit was newly created. It says that Adam's flesh body was not living until the breath of life, which means soul was breathed into his nostrils.

Christ fully expected that Nicodemus should understand what he was being told as demonstrated in verse 10 of John 3. Jesus answered and said unto him, "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? (11) Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye received not our witness.

12 IF I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

The explanation comes in verse 13 And NO man hath ascended up to heaven, but He That came down from heaven, even the Son of man Which is in heaven.

Christ did not say verse 3 "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, Christ said "Verily verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born from 'above', he cannot *see* the kingdom of God."

Somebody at some point in time changed the word above to again and then a tradition became 'born again', when in fact every soul/spirit that has passed through this flesh age was born from above and only they will have opportunity to 'see' the kingdom of God.... There is nothing here that says all who 'see' the kingdom of God will enter. This is NOT a new doctrine, as Solomon among others wrote about it before Christ ever dwelled in a flesh body on this earth.

12 posted on 03/17/2012 8:10:26 PM PDT by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: tflabo

You are right, only people can be redeemed, not fallen angels.


13 posted on 03/17/2012 8:23:56 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
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To: onedoug

Doesn’t seem odd to me, that Jesus, A jew “of the seed of David” according to the flesh, would pray as the Jewish prophets, and teach his disciples to pray to the Jewish God in the same way. There is an unbroken continuity, between Christianity and Judaism. Christianity is Jewish, at the core, it is based upon the revelation God gave to Moses, the prophets, until the fullest revelation came, which is in the person of Jesus the Messiah.


14 posted on 03/17/2012 8:28:47 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
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To: tflabo
Pastor—it seems that only mankind can be redeemed by the shed blood of Jesus. Those fallen, dark angels who fell with Lucifer are condemned forever. We humans have tje choice too but although we all are born sinners we can repent and by faith through Christ be redeemed. Not so the fallen angels it seems—they cannot be saved by the shed blood of Jesus as humans can. If someone can prove that is incorrect through biblical scripture please do share,

You are correct. The devil and a numbered of his fellow travelers have already been judged to be destroyed. (The fallen angels of Jude and those sons of God in Genesis 6.) Not one 'soul/spirit' born into a flesh body has been judged to eternal death, 'yet'!! That is in my humble opinion why it is Written to 'Judge not lest ye be judged', that is God's business and we in these flesh bodies have no clue the mind/heart that only answers to the Heavenly Father.

15 posted on 03/17/2012 8:36:03 PM PDT by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: onedoug
Doesn’t it seem odd that Jesus taught a Hebrew prayer in “Our Father”? There’s not a shred of Christianity in it.

Christianity is Christ, and Christ made Moses, along with the rest of the prophets one and the same as His gospel. Who taught the Hebrews how to pray?

16 posted on 03/17/2012 8:48:21 PM PDT by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: Just mythoughts; pastorbillrandles
Who taught the Hebrews how to pray?

The One God.

Paulinity.

I'm not trying to be a wise guy. But it took nearly 2000 years for American Christianity to realize that the Jews had something to say about existence. Prior to that it was predominantly persecution.

Please.

17 posted on 03/17/2012 11:15:12 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: onedoug
The One God. Paulinity. I'm not trying to be a wise guy. But it took nearly 2000 years for American Christianity to realize that the Jews had something to say about existence. Prior to that it was predominantly persecution. Please.

It is indeed a truth there is but ONE Heavenly Father. He owns all and controls all it is His expectation that His creation have no other 'gods' before Him.

Since Able many have lost their flesh lives in the service to Him. But the promise was not limited to only this flesh journey but for eternal salvation. From Moses onward every elected writer of the WORD of God points to that time wherein all, rebels and trouble makers included choose life or death.

It matters NOT what Christians or Jews 'say' if either or both are deceived, unlearned, or rebels.

I do not know what Paulinity means. IF it is a reference to Paul, and what he wrote, he was of the House of Jacob, and of the youngest tribe Benjamin. Paul certainly was not initially a 'believer' and he sure did not go hunting for that role but instead was struck down on his way to persecute Christians. And like Paul writes some were predestined to do and be from before the foundation of this 'flesh' age. Why? Because of their 'perfect' love for the Creator.

As Solomon penned 'there is nothing new under the sun' what has been will be again ..... just that we now alive have the script of what will be again.

Speaking of persecution, I am reminded of the book of Job.

18 posted on 03/17/2012 11:55:04 PM PDT by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: Just mythoughts

“when in fact every soul/spirit that has passed through this flesh age was born from above and only they will have opportunity to ‘see’ the kingdom of God”

No, you have a wrong docrtrine (and the statement above is not backed up by scripture), we in fact are born (the first time physically) dead, except for children who God makes an exception for, we do not know God untill “born again” which is the same as born from above.


19 posted on 03/18/2012 5:23:50 AM PDT by JSDude1
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To: Just mythoughts
So when was the 'soul/spirit' created? There is not one word in the description of the formation of the flesh body of the Adam, that hints or suggests his soul/spirit was newly created. It says that Adam's flesh body was not living until the breath of life, which means soul was breathed into his nostrils.

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Be easier to carry on the conversation if you would believe what the bible actually says instead of what you want it to say...We have a body, a soul, and a spirit...

All people are born with a body, a soul, and a spirit...Christians however must be born again from above with the Spirit of God...Pretty simple, and true...Why do you have this fixation with the word 'again'???

20 posted on 03/18/2012 7:18:35 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: JSDude1
No, you have a wrong docrtrine (and the statement above is not backed up by scripture), we in fact are born (the first time physically) dead, except for children who God makes an exception for, we do not know God untill “born again” which is the same as born from above.

John 3:13 explains what Christ was telling and yet had the expectation that Nicodemus should already know.

Do you think/believe there is a 'soul/spirit' manufacturing plant in heaven, that every time an egg gets fertilized a new soul/spirit is created?

Luke the doctor lays out plain and simple when life in this flesh body begins, at conception. That is when the soul/spirit is placed in the womb. There is NO date given when all souls/spirit intellect were created, but, there are numerous places within the Scripture that instructs the reader of the whole Scripture that the souls/spirit intellect exist and existed prior to this flesh age.

Jeremiah 1:4-5 Wherein Jeremiah is told (5)"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

To have it declared from the Heavenly Father that one is known 'before' literally means an existence, not some abstract notion or idea. We are not told when Jeremiah's soul/spirit was created but it most certainly existed long enough before he was in utero for to have been known.

Two different places describe Jacob and Esau's pre-birth condition. Malachi 1:2 "I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, 'Wherein hast Thou loved us?' Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,

3 And I hated Exau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Think for one second that Christ was not aware of Jacob and Esau????

The Paul brings forth this declaration of the pre-flesh existence of Jacob and Esau in Romans 9:11 (for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That calleth;)

12 It was said unto her, (Rebecca) "The elder shall serve the younger."

13 As it is written, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

Yet Esau passed the first requirement to 'see' the kingdom of God by being born of woman.

That word 'born' = begotten, is the key verb attached to the wrongly translated word again which correctly translated is 'from above'. AND just as Christ was sent from above and born = begotten at conception carried in the water for 9 months so have been the overwhelming majority of the rest of us. That is until modern medical equipment and procedures could deliver and maintain the flesh until the infant could survive on their own.

The point Christ made still remains, only those born = begotten though this flesh age will be allowed to 'see' the kingdom of God.

21 posted on 03/18/2012 7:06:56 PM PDT by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: Iscool
1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There is no dispute with Paul, as Paul also penned Ephesians 1:4 According as He hath chosen us (election) in Him *BEFORE* the foundation (casting down/overthrow) of the world (age), that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love"

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself,

according to the good pleasure of His will,

I am NOT ignoring the rest of the 'whole' Scripture, but for sake of time and space now stopped typing...

This 'flesh' age has a time clock on it, and once that last soul/spirit that is willing to take this flesh journey, to 'see' the kingdom of God, this flesh age ends. Nowhere does Christ say those that take this flesh journey enter the Kingdom of God, just that those that willingly take this flesh journey pass the first requirement to 'see' the kingdom of God.

I did not write what Christ said, or what Paul wrote, but, I am NOT going to put blinders on and ignore the whole story.

Be easier to carry on the conversation if you would believe what the bible actually says instead of what you want it to say...We have a body, a soul, and a spirit... All people are born with a body, a soul, and a spirit...Christians however must be born again from above with the Spirit of God...Pretty simple, and true...Why do you have this fixation with the word 'again'???

These are the WORDS of Christ...... John 3:1 (set the stage) There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, (in secret) and said unto Him, "Rabbi, we know that Thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that Thou doest, except God be with him."

Now the stage is set with a man in a position of power with the religious beliefs of the Pharisees. Secretly seeking a one on one conversation with Christ. To ignore who Nicodemus was, and what 'religion' he believed misses the whole point that Christ then taught.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born from above (I refuse to type the wrong word) he cannot see the kingdom of God."

What Christ told Nicodemus was against the belief of the Pharisees, and has not one thing to do with a new doctrine, as demonstrated by verse 10 and 13 in particular.

All souls/spirits regardless of their religious beliefs come from the MAKER and they return to the MAKER once their flesh bodies die. That is Written, Solomon penned it in Ecclesiastes 12, as the book of Ecclesiastes is about the two bodies, the flesh and the spirit. IT was not a new doctrine that Christ taught Nicodemus.

22 posted on 03/18/2012 7:28:22 PM PDT by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: Just mythoughts
All souls/spirits regardless of their religious beliefs come from the MAKER and they return to the MAKER once their flesh bodies die. That is Written, Solomon penned it in Ecclesiastes 12, as the book of Ecclesiastes is about the two bodies, the flesh and the spirit. IT was not a new doctrine that Christ taught Nicodemus.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Surely Solomon knew about the existence of man's flesh and his spirit...That however is not the conversation Jesus is having with Nicodemus...

While Nicodemus clearly understands the makeup of the human, Nick was completely clueless about the the Spirit of God indwelling the believer in the New birth...

Nicodemus was acutely aware of his first birth but was shocked to hear and learn that he must also be born from above without the aid of his mother...Nicodemus had to become born 'again'...The first time from his mother in the flesh, and the second time with the indwelling of the Holy spirit which was not given to Nicodemus or anyone at their first, natural birth...

23 posted on 03/19/2012 7:42:02 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: Iscool
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Obviously Solomon understood there are two different separate bodies, but Nicodemus did not know or understand. We can know this by what Christ asked him in verse 10, the instructed him (Nicodemus) in verses 11 and 12. The complete point up to now for us all is given in verse 13.

Surely Solomon knew about the existence of man's flesh and his spirit...That however is not the conversation Jesus is having with Nicodemus... While Nicodemus clearly understands the makeup of the human, Nick was completely clueless about the the Spirit of God indwelling the believer in the New birth... Nicodemus was acutely aware of his first birth but was shocked to hear and learn that he must also be born from above without the aid of his mother...Nicodemus had to become born 'again'...The first time from his mother in the flesh, and the second time with the indwelling of the Holy spirit which was not given to Nicodemus or anyone at their first, natural birth...

Nicodemus was a Pharisee, but knew by what he secretly said to Christ, there was something different about Christ. We know that by what Nicodemus says to Christ in secret.

Christ did not speak about the Holy Spirit to Nicodemus as that bit of instruction did not come until much later, also described as The Comforter that would be after Christ return back to Heaven.

What Christ was telling Nicodemus was what was required of any and all to 'see' the kingdom of God. Christ did not say anything about anyone receiving the Holy Spirit as that was not the subject. What Christ said was required to 'see' the kingdom of God was to be born of woman. AND as we find in other places some sons of God refused to be born of woman, and instead left their estate and came directly here and set up housekeeping with the daughters of Adam.

It might help if a search was done on the 'Greek' word translated 'again' in John 3:3, to learn the other places the original Greek word was used and how it was translated. As John 3 is not about the Holy Spirit or The Comforter which was sent after the Ascension of Christ.

24 posted on 03/20/2012 9:30:06 PM PDT by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: Just mythoughts
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

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You are correct in believing that you must be fully a man person to be saved. The giants were the progeny of both angel and man and there is, according to Old Testament scripture, no resurrection for them. Christ Jesus came to die in the place of people who are fully man, not part angel. It is possible that when Christ says that that you must be born of both water and spirit that the water is a reference to being born of a human mother the first time, but in order to enter the kingdom of God you must also be born of the Spirit.

There is no reason at all to think that Jesus nor Nicodemus were concerned, at this time, with the ancient ones who were not going to be resurrected. Why would they be, at this time, having a vital conversation about those ancients, long gone, that were not saved? Nicodemus clearly did not understand the first thing about what Jesus' true mission was or that he would be required to be born a second time of the Spirit in order to enter into the kingdom of God.

Jesus very clearly was preparing Nicodemus for the salvation that was to come by His being lifted up on the cross and dying for all mankind. His whole conversation with Nicodemus was clearly laying out the conditions for being born from above, otherwise known as being born of the Spirit of God.

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Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

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John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

25 posted on 03/23/2012 10:11:39 PM PDT by Bellflower (The LORD is Holy, separated from all sin, perfect, righteous, high and lifted up.)
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To: Bellflower
You are correct in believing that you must be fully a man person to be saved. The giants were the progeny of both angel and man and there is, according to Old Testament scripture, no resurrection for them. Christ Jesus came to die in the place of people who are fully man, not part angel. It is possible that when Christ says that that you must be born of both water and spirit that the water is a reference to being born of a human mother the first time, but in order to enter the kingdom of God you must also be born of the Spirit.

John 3:13 sums up the lesson given to Nicodemus "And *no* man hath ascended up to heaven, but He That came down from heaven, even the Son of Man Which is in heaven.

There is no reason at all to think that Jesus nor Nicodemus were concerned, at this time, with the ancient ones who were not going to be resurrected. Why would they be, at this time, having a vital conversation about those ancients, long gone, that were not saved? Nicodemus clearly did not understand the first thing about what Jesus' true mission was or that he would be required to be born a second time of the Spirit in order to enter into the kingdom of God.

When Christ was asked by His disciples Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 ..... (quoting now Matthew 24) verse 1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple:

and His disciples came to Him for to shew Him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us,

when shall these thing be

and what shall be the sign of Thy coming,

and of the end of the world?"

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in My name, saying, 'I am Christ(ian);' and shall deceive many.

Then Christ lists events that need be but for sake of time and space skip to verse 37 to see why what Nicodemus was told was and is relevant... verse 37 of Matthew 24 "But as the days of Noe (Noah... Genesis 6) were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe (Noah) entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away;

so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Solomon writes in Ecclesiastes 12 that the soul/spirit returns to the maker that sent it when the flesh dies. Those of Genesis 6, Jude and elsewhere that left their estate were already condemned to die without ever having that opportunity to be born of woman. That is what Nicodemus is being told is the first requirement to 'see' the kingdom of God, and why Christ expected that Nicodemus being of Israel, surely would have been familiar with Genesis 6 and Ecclesiastes 12 for starters....

And given that of all the peoples Christ had encounters with on His in the flesh mission would have seen fit this 'secret' conversation been recorded and preserved for us in these days to read and prepare our 'soul/spirit' for what to expect.

Jesus very clearly was preparing Nicodemus for the salvation that was to come by His being lifted up on the cross and dying for all mankind. His whole conversation with Nicodemus was clearly laying out the conditions for being born from above, otherwise known as being born of the Spirit of God.

Ah it does not read that Nicodemus has ears to hear or eyes to see what he was being told, which is as much of a lesson to those who will believe in Christ these days. But then again I really have no clue what ultimately Nicodemus believed, but I am most thankful for his story to help me understand, even with all limitations included, at least that all who have been born of woman in this flesh age passed the first requirement to 'see' the kingdom of God. And that only then is the opportunity available to receive the 'Comfort' of the instruction of the Holy Spirit.

26 posted on 03/24/2012 10:33:55 PM PDT by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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