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To: Bryanw92

I’m old. I’ve watched this evangelical thing unfold for a long time.
I am not a theologian so my response will be kind rough and abbreviated.
In brief, the evangelical movement began in the mid-1800’s in reaction to a “dead” Presbyterianism. (Too much form, and not enough heart.)
Tragically, in the desire to separate, they “threw out the baby with the bath water.” They threw out creed and systematic doctrine.
I grew up in an evangelical church (I’m 64), that was at the tipping point between holding onto the old paths, and moving into new evangelicalism.
The rally cry was, “Defending the essentials, and not argueing the unessentials.” (Can’t we all get along?)
It doesn’t sound like a bad idea does it? Well, who decides what is essential, or not essential? What does the Bible say about “every jott and tiddle”? Does not the Bible define every detail of faith and practice? (What can the righteous do when the foundations are destroyed?)
Believe me, I was no whiz bang, wise beyond my years teenager. Being in our church was like being in a family about to divorce, there was a level of confusion, chaos, and lawlessness. (Every man doing what was right in his own eyes.)
Their God was not big enough for my problems. They were all giddy and joyful. It wasn’t working for me.
I left home and church with several thoughts:
1. God, if you don’t want me, leave me alone.
2. I would love to hear God’s Word for the first time, to know what I believed for myself, and not just something I absorbed from the walls.
3. I wanted God to be worthy of my worship, and not this silly God who cheered for the local football team.
God answered my prayers in His own time and way.
I was in my ‘50s before I was in a church that taught systematic doctrine, and all of a sudden all the disjointed bits and pieces I had learned along the way came together, and opened God’s Word, and my relationship with Him that changed everything.

I’m telling you this because of this quote from the article:

“Back in 1980, I met with the retired Episcopal Bishop of Atlanta, who had been Bishop during those tumultuous times. It was soon before his death, and he told me, “If I had known all this would happen, I would not have been quick to give in.” He went to his grave in regret.”

The broad evangelical umbrella is a skeleton of what the church use to be under creed and systematic doctrine.
That’s ultimately why this Bishop went to his grave with regret. So tragic for him, and tragic for his congregation.

Ordinary people like me see the sickness, see the remedy, and pray that we will see God work a new reformation in individuals, families, churches, the world. “Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.”
My original comment was out of frustration, and I should have deleted it.


8 posted on 03/25/2012 11:42:01 AM PDT by WestwardHo
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To: WestwardHo

“I was in my ‘50s before I was in a church that taught systematic doctrine, and all of a sudden all the disjointed bits and pieces I had learned along the way came together, and opened God’s Word, and my relationship with Him that changed everything.”

Interesting read about your religious experiences. I had a similar experience after I first read the Westminster Confession of Faith(conservative Presbyterian). If you do not mind my asking, what theological perspective is the church that introduced you to systematic doctrine?


10 posted on 03/25/2012 11:48:27 AM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: WestwardHo

I’m not as old as you, but I’ve seen it from the opposite point of view. I’m United Methodist and was raised Methodist and then UM. I’ve seen a vibrant church wither and grow old because it allows the congregations to rely on their creed and systematic doctrines and not on a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and a sharing of that relationship.

I never left the UM church, even as I saw the spiritual rot within. I stay with it because it is my church, but when I see elements of evangelical protestantism injected into our lifeless liturgies, I can see some life...and then I see some old-school Methodist step in to hammer it back down so it goes back to looking like it did when he was a child.

I believe that there is place in between dead presbyterianism and out-of-control evangelism that ignores all Christian tradition for no other reason other than “we don’t do traditions here”.

The old Methodist Church of the 19th century was a place of Anglican traditions and American evangelism and it was a powerful force. If we aren’t destroyed by the gay agenda next month at General Conference, then our future is somewhere in that 19th century church.


11 posted on 03/25/2012 12:06:27 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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