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Hemings and Jefferson Together Forever? Troubling cases of Mormon “proxy sealing.”
Slate.com ^ | March 29, 2012 | Max Perry Mueller

Posted on 03/30/2012 7:44:55 PM PDT by Colofornian

Thomas Jefferson’s most famous slave, and the mother of several of the third American president’s children, died in 1835...We don’t know when news of Joseph Smith’s... religious movement reached...where Sally Hemings spent most of her 62 years, as a house servant and eventually as Jefferson’s “paramour.” But even if Mormon missionaries had come to Monticello during Heming’s lifetime, they would, per the instructions of Smith himself, have worked first to convert the masters, and only then—with the masters’ permission—the slaves.

Heming’s chance to become a Mormon came much later, in a Mormon temple in Mesa, Ariz., 13 years after the church lifted the ban on full membership for people of African descent. On April 21, 1991, two members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints entered a baptismal font. One...proclaimed, “...I baptize you for and in behalf of Sally Hemings, who is dead.”

SNIP

After the recent furor over Mormon proxy baptism, this news about Hemings should surprise no one. We should...take it as a given that Mormons have baptized by proxy almost every famous person...even Elvis...[...a Jewish friend recently quipped to me, “Mormons can baptize dead Jews when Jews can circumcise live Mormons.”)

What is surprising is that the LDS Church, according to its Family Search registry, considers Hemings to be Thomas Jefferson’s wife. (One of two—the other of course being Jefferson’s legal wife, Martha...)

...Mormons not only believe in baptizing non-Mormons who have died—they also...“seal...” families so they can spend eternity together...

...the LDS church recognizes Hemings as Jefferson’s wife...I strongly suspected that Hemings and Jefferson had been posthumously sealed as husband and wife. I asked the LDS Church to confirm my hunch...the Church obliged: ...Hemings and...Jefferson, I was told, have been posthumously sealed as husband and wife in an LDS Temple...

(Excerpt) Read more at slate.com ...


TOPICS: History; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: inman; lds; mormon; mormonbaptism; sealing; thomasjefferson
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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From the article talking about Thomas Jefferson's sexually abusive relationship with a slave of his...one the Mormon church has now taken the care to "marry" them: Heming’s chance to become a Mormon came much later, in a Mormon temple in Mesa, Ariz., 13 years after the church lifted the ban on full membership for people of African descent. On April 21, 1991, two members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints entered a baptismal font. One...proclaimed, “...I baptize you for and in behalf of Sally Hemings, who is dead.”...After the recent furor over Mormon proxy baptism, this news about Hemings should surprise no one. We should...take it as a given that Mormons have baptized by proxy almost every famous person...even Elvis...[...a Jewish friend recently quipped to me, “Mormons can baptize dead Jews when Jews can circumcise live Mormons.”)......the LDS church recognizes Hemings as Jefferson’s wife...I strongly suspected that Hemings and Jefferson had been posthumously sealed as husband and wife. I asked the LDS Church to confirm my hunch...the Church obliged: ...Hemings and...Jefferson, I was told, have been posthumously sealed as husband and wife in an LDS Temple...

Hmmm...Slaves couldn't "consent" to sex, right? That was sexual slavery that Thomas Jefferson was trafficking in, was it not? And yet the Mormon church has supposedly "sealed" them for eternity?

Does the Mormon church also "seal" dead rape victims & their rapists together for eternity?

1 posted on 03/30/2012 7:45:02 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Wherever they might be, I’m sure both Hemings and Jefferson are comforted by this. /s


2 posted on 03/30/2012 7:49:52 PM PDT by doc1019 (Romney will never get my vote!)
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To: All
From the article: Thomas Jefferson’s most famous slave, and the mother of several of the third American president’s children, died in 1835...We don’t know when news of Joseph Smith’s... religious movement reached...where Sally Hemings spent most of her 62 years, as a house servant and eventually as Jefferson’s “paramour.” But even if Mormon missionaries had come to Monticello during Heming’s lifetime, they would, per the instructions of Smith himself, have worked first to convert the masters, and only then—with the masters’ permission—the slaves.

Yes...this bold-faced part IS Mormon doctrine...Mormon "scripture" still on the "scriptural" books...which means if even a white (or any color) trafficked sex slave wanted to respond to the Mormon Gospel...the Mormon missionary or Mormon would first need to secure "permission" from the woman or child's owner...or pimp...

It's found in Lds "Doctrine & Covenants" 134:12...a chapter that Mormon leaders still frequently cite...for some reason...they tend to leave out v. 12 when they cite it...Read it and think real hard about the "kind of god" they make their Mormon god out to be:

”We believe it just to preach the gospel to the nations of the earth, and warn the righteous to save themselves from the corruption of the world; but we do not believe it right to interfere with bond-servants, neither preach the gospel to, nor baptize them contrary to the will and wish of their masters, nor to meddle with or influence them in the least to cause them to be dissatisfied with their situations in this life, thereby jeopardizing the lives of men; such interference we believe to be unlawful and unjust, and dangerous to the peace of every government allowing human beings to be held in servitude.”

D&C 134:12 is LDS “Doctrine” that has never been removed or rescinded!!! This passages makes it quite clear – in contrast to the apostle Paul who vied for the religious freedom of Onesimus while treating him as a full Christian brother and encouraged Philemon to do the same--somehow, LDS think that "religious freedom" applies to everyone except slaves!

D&C 134:12, written in 1835 pro-slavery America, made it quite clear that instead of the Mormons having a universal god who issued eternal truth applicable to all cultures, he is instead an American-sounding god who speaks only in King James English & was beholden to the American slavery industry.

D&C 134:12 "settles" the issue for the Mormon: Are slaves & trafficking victims worthy of the "gospel?" LDS Answer? Nope! "neither preach the gospel to, nor baptize them..." says LDS "Scripture.

And why not? Well, says D&C 134:12: We don't want ya ta meddle with the Mastuhs' business “property,” or to say it as precisely as LDS "scripture" says it: nor to meddle with or influence them in the least to cause them to be dissatisfied with their situations in this life...

(Nah. We can't have unhappy slaves or trafficking victims now, can we? Too disturbing to their "stations" of life, eh?)

Now what are the ultimate reasons for this again? D&C 134:12 provides the answer:

Reason #1: ...such interference we believe to be unlawful and unjust... (There ya have it...wouldn't want to be "unjust" by giving slaves the gospel & baptizing them, would ya?)

Reason #2: ...and dangerous to the peace of every government allowing human beings to be held in servitude. (And, of course, the "closer": Wouldn't want to disturb the peace & quiet of slavery-sanctioning governments, now would ya?)

3 posted on 03/30/2012 7:50:22 PM PDT by Colofornian ( Tell us: Why do we want to vote for ONE socialist to defeat ANOTHER socialist again?)
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To: Colofornian

The problem is THOMAS Jefferson may not have been the one in the relationship, it most likely was Thomas’ brother, Randolph.


4 posted on 03/30/2012 7:50:36 PM PDT by madison10 (The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time...)
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To: madison10

Bump!


5 posted on 03/30/2012 7:56:12 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: Colofornian

Reading between the lines here, I gather Slate is trying to encourage anti Mormon bigotry on a racial level, to motivate anti-Romney votes?

They already have Trayvon Martin. That’s the real get out the vote gambit right now.


6 posted on 03/30/2012 7:58:08 PM PDT by Williams (Honey Badger Don't Care)
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To: madison10

I have read that the DNA testing showed that “a male member of the Jefferson family was the father,” which narrowed it down to one of twelve men, Randolph being the most likely. Of course, this would not stop attempts by today’s left to besmirch a Founding father,.


7 posted on 03/30/2012 8:00:51 PM PDT by JayVee (Joseph)
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To: All
From the article: What is surprising is that the LDS Church, according to its Family Search registry, considers Hemings to be Thomas Jefferson’s wife. (One of two—the other of course being Jefferson’s legal wife, Martha...)

Well, actually, what is surprising here is that nobody wants to address the Mormon elephant in the living room here: If Mormons seal both wives that a man had temporally -- for eternity -- to that man...and if they believe families are forever...then the Mormons -- if what they believe happens to be true, that is -- have just converted Thomas Jefferson into an eternal polygamist.

And this all from the religion that claims to disassociate & even ex-communicate polygamists??????

Can you say, outright religious hypocrisy??? Can you, speaking out of both sides of their mouth???

Can you say cover-up as to what they really believe about polygamy???

Can you say open prevarication & deception & lying from the highest segments of Lds, Inc????

8 posted on 03/30/2012 8:01:42 PM PDT by Colofornian ( Tell us: Why do we want to vote for ONE socialist to defeat ANOTHER socialist again?)
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To: Colofornian

Much of polygamy was and still is rape. Not surprising that they would seal Hemmings to Jefferson when you think of it that way.


9 posted on 03/30/2012 8:03:36 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Williams

Its not Slates fault that the Mormons are involved in anti-Christian bigotry...

The Mormons are accountable and responsible for their racist and religious discrimination...


10 posted on 03/30/2012 8:05:14 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
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To: Tennessee Nana

The Mormons are accountable and responsible for their racist and religious discrimination...

- - - - - - - -
And they will flat out deny it or lie about it to make ‘the Church’ look good.

Part of my problem as a Mormon is I was willing to own the problem doctrines (even Adam=God) even if I didn’t agree with them (like the racism).


11 posted on 03/30/2012 8:18:48 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: All
Other details...

Just posted: LDS Proxy Marriage Rites Bind Slaves to Slavemasters for Eternity, including Thomas Jefferson...

I ask there why would Mormons want to seal an "apostate" anyway??? Apostates can have their families live together forever, per Lds doctrine...Only Mormons...Only temple-recommend Mormons at that!

12 posted on 03/30/2012 8:19:40 PM PDT by Colofornian ( Tell us: Why do we want to vote for ONE socialist to defeat ANOTHER socialist again?)
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To: Colofornian
"Apostates can have their families live together forever, per Lds doctrine...Only Mormons...Only temple-recommend Mormons at that!"

Need a small typo-fix there. I think you mean "Apostates CAN'T have their families live together forever..."

13 posted on 03/30/2012 8:58:08 PM PDT by redhead (Alaska: Step out of the bus and into the food chain.)
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To: redhead; All
Me: "Apostates can have their families live together forever, per Lds doctrine...Only Mormons...Only temple-recommend Mormons at that!"

Redhead: Need a small typo-fix there. I think you mean "Apostates CAN'T have their families live together forever...

Thanx for the catch; yes...too much in a hurry...Apostates CAN NOT have their families live together!

Nobody who wasn't a Mormon isn't even eligible for the Mormon "celestial kingdom"; and it's supposedly only in the Mormon "celestial kingdom" where families live forever together.

14 posted on 03/30/2012 9:10:14 PM PDT by Colofornian ( Tell us: Why do we want to vote for ONE socialist to defeat ANOTHER socialist again?)
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To: Colofornian
"Nobody who wasn't a Mormon isn't ever eligible for the Mormon "celestial kingdom"; and it's supposedly only in the Mormon "celestial kingdom" where families live forever together."

Well, it's pretty obvious that this means nobody gets to go to "Heaven" but them. Guess the rest of us will have to be satisfied with waiting in the mudroom.

15 posted on 03/30/2012 10:11:22 PM PDT by redhead (Alaska: Step out of the bus and into the food chain.)
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To: doc1019

Not an expert. But I beg to differ: Jefferson was not the father of Hemmings kids. DNA evidence points to a close relative, but not Thomas Jefferson himself.


16 posted on 03/30/2012 10:20:33 PM PDT by CT (Make Mine Newt)
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To: CT

Peepstone profit dead dunk placemarker.


17 posted on 03/30/2012 10:46:57 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Praise Jesus! I have been redeemed from the "restoration" of mormonism!)
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To: CT

If you read my comment again, my statement has nothing to do with whether this or that person was the father of this child or that child. My comment was a sarcastic comment on weather Hemings or Jefferson were comforted by any decree made by the mormon church.


18 posted on 03/30/2012 11:20:48 PM PDT by doc1019 (Romney will never get my vote!)
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To: doc1019

Sorry. The story looked as though it was advancing something not proven.


19 posted on 03/30/2012 11:29:15 PM PDT by CT (Make Mine Newt)
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To: Colofornian
What is surprising is that the LDS Church, according to its Family Search registry, considers Hemings to be Thomas Jefferson’s wife.

Why is this considered to be surprising?

After the contortions the CHURCH goes thru to try to PROVE that polygamy was BLESSED by God in the OT, even to downright LYING about certain FACTS - NOTHING this 'church' does surprises ME!

20 posted on 03/31/2012 4:06:55 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
 

Polygamy: How it all got Started


 
 
 
Joe: Hey Emma!   Guess what!?
 
Emma: You KNOW I hate these guessing games! What is it, Dear?
 
Joe: I heard a voice, probably the Lord, tell me I must take other wives.
 
Emma: WHAT!?   You ding bat!  Don't you KNOW what our precious BOOK says?   After all; YOU are the one that translated it!
 
Joe: Books; schmooks.   All I know is I've been COMMANDED to take other wives and you are to OBEY ME!!!
 
 
Emma:      "Though shalt NOT commit ADULTERY!!!"
 
 
Joe: Silly Woman!  You KNOW better than to take things out of CONTEXT!!!
 
 
 
 
 

 
...and the rest is HISTORY...
 

 
 
 
 
 
THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI
CHAPTER 2
 
  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
 

Or even HERE:
 

 1 Timothy 3:2-3
 2.  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
 3.  not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
 
 
1 Timothy 3:12
   A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.
 
 
 Titus 1:6
   An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.



 
 
Emma: That's IT!   I'm LEAVING your sorry *!!!
 
Joe:  DARN you Emma; you were TOLD to accept this!!   Wait!!!   I hear a voice again!!!
 
 


 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 132
 
  51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
 
 
  51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.
  52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.
  53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.
  54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.
  55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
  56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to brejoice.


21 posted on 03/31/2012 4:07:36 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian

The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.
.
.
.
58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.


 

58 Now, as touching the law of the apriesthood, there are many things pertaining thereunto.

59 Verily, if a man be called of my Father, as was aAaron, by mine own voice, and by the voice of him that bsent me, and I have endowed him with the ckeys of the power of this priesthood, if he do anything in my name, and according to my law and by my word, he will not commit dsin, and I will justify him.

60 Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God.

61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

62 And if he have aten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to amultiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be bglorified.

64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.

65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take aHagar to wife.

66 And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present. Behold, I am Alpha and Omega. Amen.


22 posted on 03/31/2012 4:08:19 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
 
 
 
OFFICIAL DECLARATION—1

To Whom It May Concern:

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy

I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.

There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.

WILFORD WOODRUFF
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 




President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:

“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.

Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.







 

EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF
REGARDING THE MANIFESTO

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all. . . .

I have had some revelations of late, and very important ones to me, and I will tell you what the Lord has said to me. Let me bring your minds to what is termed the manifesto. . . .

The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.

The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place
if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.

. . . I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write. . . .

I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us.
(Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)
 
 
 

Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. . . . All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it.
 
(From a discourse at the sixth session of the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, April 1893. Typescript of Dedicatory Services, Archives, Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah.)
 

 
 
 
 
What kind of  'Leadership' is THIS???
 
compared to...
 
 
 
 
Hebrews 11:35-40
 35.  Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection.
 36.  Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison.
 37.  They were stoned ; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated--
 38.  the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground. 
 
 
or compared to...
 

Acts 4:19.  But Peter and John replied, "Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God's sight to obey you rather than God.
 


 
So much for an 'Everlasting Covenant' that thundered out of Heaven!!!
 
Well; it DID last about 47 years!
 



 
Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...
I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President

 


23 posted on 03/31/2012 4:09:00 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
”We believe it just to preach the gospel to the nations of the earth, and warn the righteous to save themselves from the corruption of the world; but we do not believe it right to interfere with bond-servants, neither preach the gospel to, nor baptize them contrary to the will and wish of their masters*, nor to meddle with or influence them in the least to cause them to be dissatisfied with their situations in this life, thereby jeopardizing the lives of men; such interference we believe to be unlawful and unjust, and dangerous to the peace of every government allowing human beings to be held in servitude.”

* Unless they are DEAD and JEWISH.

24 posted on 03/31/2012 4:11:40 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Williams
Reading between the lines here, I gather Slate is trying to encourage anti Mormon bigotry on a racial level, to motivate anti-Romney votes?

NO need; when one can DIRECTLY 'read the lines' that MORMONism's foul 'god' has 'revealed' to the PROPHETS in the 'church'.

25 posted on 03/31/2012 4:13:58 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Williams



"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.



Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.

2 Nephi 5: 21 'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

Alma 3: 6 'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'



August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:

"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."

"He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage."

"That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."

(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)



1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said,

"The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."



We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood.

According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.



Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:

"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.

The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."

(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).



When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:

"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."



When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."

(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)





Yeah; Native Americans are althroughout the Book of MORMON; too.

 

“I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today ... they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.... For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.... The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.

At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents—on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather.... These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness.

One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.

 

(Improvement Era, December 1960, pp.922-23). (p. 209)

 



 

26 posted on 03/31/2012 4:14:30 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
And this all from the religion that claims to disassociate & even ex-communicate polygamists??????

Media Letter   
26 June 2008 — Salt Lake City  (http://newsroom.lds.org/additional-resource/media-letter)

*The following is a letter from Elder Lance B. Wickman, General Counsel of the Church to publishers of major newspapers, TV stations and magazines. It was sent out on Tuesday, June 24, 2008.




Recent events have focused the media spotlight on a polygamous sect near San Angelo, Texas, calling itself the “Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.” As you probably know, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has absolutely no affiliation with this polygamous sect. Decades ago, the founders of that sect rejected the doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, were excommunicated, and then started their own religion. To the best of our knowledge, no one at the Texas compound has ever been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Unfortunately, however, some of the media coverage of the recent events in Texas has caused members of the public to confuse the doctrines and members of that group and our church. We have received numerous inquiries from confused members of the public who, by listening to less than careful media reports, have come to a grave misunderstanding about our respective doctrines and faith. Based on these media reports many have erroneously concluded that there is some affiliation between the two – or even worse, that they are one and the same.

Over the years, in a careful effort to distinguish itself, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has gone to significant lengths to protect its rights in the name of the church and related matters. Specifically, we have obtained registrations for the name “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,” “Mormon,” “Book of Mormon” and related trade and service marks from the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office and corresponding agencies in a significant number of foreign countries.

We are confident that you are committed to avoiding misleading statements that cause unwarranted confusion and that may disparage or infringe the intellectual property rights discussed above. Accordingly, we respectfully request the following:

  1. As reflected in the AP Style Guide, we ask that you and your organization refrain from referring to members of that polygamous sect as “fundamentalist Mormons” or “fundamentalist” members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
  2. We ask that, when reporting about this Texas-based polygamous sect or any other polygamous group, you avoid either explicitly or implicitly any inference that these groups are affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
  3. On those occasions when it may be necessary in your reporting to refer to the historical practice of plural marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, that you make very clear that the Church does not condone the practice of polygamy and that it has been forbidden in the Church for over one hundred years. Moreover, we absolutely condemn arranged or forced “marriages” of underage girls to anyone under any circumstances.

Stated simply, we would like to be known and recognized for whom we are and what we believe, and not be inaccurately associated with beliefs and practices that we condemn in the strongest terms. We would be grateful if you could circulate or copy this letter to your editorial staff and to your legal counsel.

We thank you for your consideration of these important matters.

Sincerely,

Lance B. Wickman

General Counsel

27 posted on 03/31/2012 4:16:09 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: reaganaut
Much of polygamy was and still is rape.


28 posted on 03/31/2012 4:17:20 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: redhead
I think you mean "Apostates CAN'T have their families live together forever..."

According to MORMONism's Doctrine; most MORMONs CAN'T either!!!

29 posted on 03/31/2012 4:18:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
...who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'

Good ol' Sam: doncha just LOVE him for being the inspiration for so many tings we love?





30 posted on 03/31/2012 4:29:03 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
Claim: Decades ago, the founders of that sect rejected the doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, were excommunicated, and then started their own religion.

Fact: Some Mormons, decidely upset at the way the leadership was APOSTIZING away from lds SCRIPTURE, continued to actually FOLLOW it. This made the 'leadership' look REALLY bad; so the Shun Machine was set to maximum: EXCOMMICATE.

31 posted on 03/31/2012 4:33:02 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
According to MORMONism's Doctrine; most MORMONs CAN'T either!!!

So just WHAT does the BIBLE have to say about 'Forever Families"?


Romans 7:1-2 1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

32 posted on 03/31/2012 4:35:36 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

I despise all the anti Mormon hatred posted here. If someone wants me to, I can denounce all manner of protestant and catholic history and thought.

I don’t care about this crap, it’s hateful, and there is no reason to believe Romney or any other Mormon who has served in high office gives a good crap about it.

I’m far more worried about the leftist “religion” which is a real and present threat, as opposed to history lessons.

And if you can keep posting volumes of this crap, I damn well can call it crap.

I’ve never heard any sensible person observe any problem with an elected official having to do with Mormonism.


33 posted on 03/31/2012 9:14:18 AM PDT by Williams (Honey Badger Don't Care)
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To: Williams

So you despise the truth? That what these threads are showing the truth of Mormonism, the truth they either don’t know or lie about to you. You may not care, but other people do. Many people have seen the lies of Mormonism on these threads and no longer see it as either Christians or even necessarily harmless, and at least 3 left Mormonism and became Christians because of this.

We don’t hate Mormons, we love them enough to show them the truth about their cult.

And the fact that Romney is still a ‘temple mormon’ means HE DOES ‘give a ****”. All temple Mormons do. Baptism for the dead is a big part of Mormonism, since it makes them saviors themselves.

So if you don’t like it, say off the RF. But let us do our work, or start paying attention and learn some things.


34 posted on 03/31/2012 9:43:38 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: reaganaut

I think his point was, you can find crazy screwy repulsive things in any religion. Mormons are no exception. Including the ones you might consider real Christian sects.


35 posted on 03/31/2012 9:51:24 AM PDT by mlo
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To: reaganaut

I’ll read and say what I damn please. This is stupid crap if there is an agenda behind it.

George Romney was Michigan governor and a moderate, Reid, Hatch and Mitt R are mormons.

Never heard them say or do a damn thing in long careers where anyone complained it was due to Mormonism.

Romney was governor of a liberal state. So what the hell are you talking about? When did mormonism affect anything he did?

Do I believe Mormonism? Not a word of it. Now what are you stirring up when Mormonism has never had a darn thing to do with these people’s careers.

None of them has ever espoused any of the racial nonsense you are going on about.

And yeah, this was a Slate article. They can go straight to leftist hell. Don’t tell me to support or to ignore what Slate publishes.


36 posted on 03/31/2012 10:54:14 AM PDT by Williams (Honey Badger Don't Care)
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To: mlo

Just wait til the White Horse shows up and Romney forces all members of the Executive Branch to put on magic underwear and listen to the Mormon Tabernacle Choir on a daily basis. Washington DC will be renamed Joseph Smith City and there will be a new check-off on your income tax to cover the costs of “proxy sealing”.

Mormons !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


37 posted on 03/31/2012 11:01:45 AM PDT by magritte (Gladys Knight: Mormon Siren?)
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To: Williams
And if you can keep posting volumes of this crap, I damn well can call it crap.

You sure can!!!


Is BrighamYoung lying?

"For unbelievers we will quote from the Scriptures - "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God." Again - "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is of God."

 I will now give my scripture - "Whosoever confesseth that Joseph Smith was sent of God to reveal the holy Gospel to the children of men, and lay the foundation for gathering Israel, and building up the kingdom of God on the earth, that spirit is of God; and every spirit that does not confess that God has sent Joseph Smith, and revealed the everlasting Gospel to and through him, is of Antichrist.......

 - BrighamYoung

 

 

 

Here's some MORE for MORMON's...

"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned; and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given, and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

- JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)

 

 

It is true that the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Eloheim, Yahovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in all heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented in the Deity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Again, they will try to tell how the divinity of Jesus is joined to his humanity, and exhaust all their mental faculties, and wind up with this profound language, as describing the soul of man, "it is an immaterial substance!" What a learned idea! Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation.

I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told. Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost.

- JoD 1:50-51 (April 9, 1852)

 

 

The rank, rabid abolitionists, whom I call black-hearted Republicans, have set the whole national fabric on fire. Do you know this, Democrats? They have kindled the fire that is raging now from the north to the south, and from the south to the north. I am no abolitionist, neither am I a proslavery man; I hate some of their principles and especially some of their conduct, as I do the gates of hell. The Southerners make the negroes, and the Northerners worship them; this is all the difference between slaveholders. and abolitionists. I would like the President of the United States and all the world to hear this.

Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.

- JoD: vol.10 p. 110: (March 8, 1863)

It looks like BrighamYoung was pretty good at bashings.

38 posted on 03/31/2012 5:33:22 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: mlo
I think his point was, you can find crazy screwy repulsive things in any religion.

Yup; that WAS his point; along with "Do NOT be posting this stuff showing how REPULSIVE MormonISM is!"

39 posted on 03/31/2012 5:34:58 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Williams
This is stupid crap if there is an agenda behind it.

You are half right; as I DO have an agenda:

To expose the inner workings of MORMONism so unknowing folks will NOT be sucked into it's yawning maw!

40 posted on 03/31/2012 5:36:38 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Williams
Now what are you stirring up when Mormonism has never had a darn thing to do with these people’s careers.

And you know this HOW?

41 posted on 03/31/2012 5:37:46 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: magritte
Mormons !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Noahides.....

No dogs in the fight, but just want to hang around and support the poor MORMONs.

42 posted on 03/31/2012 5:39:14 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: magritte
Washington DC will be renamed Joseph Smith City and there will be a new check-off on your income tax to cover the costs of “proxy sealing”.



...the presidential campaign of Mormon Church founder Joseph Smith in 1844: “Challenging Democrat James Polk and Whig Henry Clay, Smith prophesied that if the U.S. Congress did not accede to his demands that ‘they shall be broken up as a government and God shall damn them.’

Smith viewed capturing the presidency as part of the mission of the church.

Mitt Romney thinks that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of GOD.
43 posted on 03/31/2012 5:41:44 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
Joseph Smith certainly was a profit of God.


44 posted on 03/31/2012 5:49:15 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr; Tennessee Nana; Godzilla; aMorePerfectUnion; Utah Binger; Colofornian; caww

There is another version of this banknote. Any FIs know where to find the picture and data?


45 posted on 03/31/2012 6:23:55 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

I think that the whole Mormon shebang is as queer as a three dollar bill.


46 posted on 03/31/2012 7:30:17 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: madison10

I had the same thought. Issues like that are the reason I firmly believe God, and noone else should and will make the decision of who is together for eternity. No one else knows enough of anyone’s life to know.


47 posted on 03/31/2012 7:48:23 PM PDT by Tammy8 (~Secure the border and deport all illegals- do it now! ~ Support our Troops!~)
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To: Elsie

If you don’t have examples of how Mormon politicians did something wrong because of their religion, then you don’t have much of a point - at least about the politicians.


48 posted on 03/31/2012 8:23:18 PM PDT by Williams (Honey Badger Don't Care)
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To: MarkBsnr
I think that the whole Mormon shebang is as queer as a three dollar bill.

From what I've seen in e-mail; the Thai boys make the best looking she-bangs.


But; OTOH...


I'm a MORMON ...
 
 
 

http://www.affirmation.org/

49 posted on 04/01/2012 4:31:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Williams

And you know this HOW?


50 posted on 04/01/2012 4:32:23 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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