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Where is Jesus after he Dies?
Archdiocese of Washington ^ | April 6, 2012 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 04/07/2012 3:40:18 PM PDT by NYer

descent

Where is Christ after he dies on Friday afternoon and before he rises on Easter Sunday? Both Scripture and Tradition answer this question. Consider the following from a Second Century Sermon and also a mediation from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

An Ancient Sermon:

Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him – He who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . “I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead.” [From an Ancient Holy Saturday Homily ca 2nd Century]

Nothing could be more beautiful than that line addressed to Adam and Eve: I am your God, who, for your sake, became your Son.”

Scripture also testifies to Christ’s descent to the dead and what he did: For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison….For this is why the gospel was preached even to those who are dead, that though judged in the flesh the way people are, they might live in the spirit the way God does. (1 Peter 3:18; 1 Peter 4:6).

Consider also this from the Catechism on Christ’s descent to the dead, which I summarize and excerpt from CCC # 631-635

[The] first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ’s descent into hell [is] that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead.

But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there [1 Peter 3:18-19; 1 Peter 4:6; Heb. 13:20]. Scripture calls [this] abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” – Sheol in Hebrew, or Hades in Greek – because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God [1 Peter 3:18-19].

Such [was] the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they awaited the Redeemer: It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior …whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell.”[cf Psalms 89:49; 1 Sam. 28:19; Ezek 32:17ff; Luke 16:22-26]

Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.

[So] the gospel was preached even to the dead. The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfillment. This is the last phase of Jesus’ messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ’s redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.

Christ went down into the depths of death so that “the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.”[1 Peter 4:6] Jesus, “the Author of life”, by dying, destroyed “him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage” [John 5:25; Mt 12:40; Rom 10:7; Eph 4:9].

Henceforth the risen Christ holds “the keys of Death and Hades”, so that “at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth.”[Heb 2:14-15; Acts 3:15]


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Theology
KEYWORDS: easter; holysaturday; jesus; msgrcharlespope
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1 posted on 04/07/2012 3:40:22 PM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 04/07/2012 3:41:09 PM PDT by NYer (He who hides in his heart the remembrance of wrongs is like a man who feeds a snake on his chest. St)
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To: NYer
Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.

This is a doctrine that the fundamental, independent, Bible-believing immersionist (Baptist-type) also believes. I don't know why, but this part was not in the Apostle's Creed of the Methodist denomination I was brought up in, nor were we taught it.

Hmmmm

3 posted on 04/07/2012 4:24:41 PM PDT by imardmd1 (Ps. 107:2 Let the redeemed of the Lord say so, whom He hath redeemed from the hand of the Enemy ...)
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To: NYer
I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell.

awesome. Talk about follow-through.

5 posted on 04/07/2012 4:30:57 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (I think in about 5 - no, 4 - years I'll have had enough.)
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To: NYer

I’m given to pondering what the disciples were thinking during these Three Days.


6 posted on 04/07/2012 4:33:19 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (I think in about 5 - no, 4 - years I'll have had enough.)
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To: NYer

Where was Jesus? In the grave, dead. according to Matt.16:21 he wasn’t resurrected until the third day so until he actually was resurrected he was dead and did nothing and went nowhere


7 posted on 04/07/2012 5:10:32 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: the invisib1e hand
I’m given to pondering what the disciples were thinking during these Three Days.

Peter was thinking "Dang! What am i gonna do now?! I'm not a very good fisherman. Never caught a thing unless Jesus told me where to put the net!"

8 posted on 04/07/2012 5:13:35 PM PDT by al_c (http://www.blowoutcongress.com)
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To: count-your-change
Where was Jesus? In the grave, dead. according to Matt.16:21 he wasn’t resurrected until the third day so until he actually was resurrected he was dead and did nothing and went nowhere

Your literalism is ridiculous in its internal contradictions.

9 posted on 04/07/2012 5:19:26 PM PDT by Talisker (He who commands, must obey.)
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To: NYer

****Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him. ****

True. He descended there to free those in that part of hades we call paradise (Abraham’s Bosom).
when HE ascended on high he took this train of captives with him.


10 posted on 04/07/2012 5:21:54 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: count-your-change
But he said to the thief: "Today you will be with me in Paradise".

He also said: "The dead, they know nothing." And several times refers to dead people as "sleeping". BTW, I could have sworn we used to say in Mass: "He descended into Hell." I always thought it was so Satan could torture him for 3 days.

I've seen another version of that painting, where Jesus greets the righteous in Hell, now freed by the Crucifixion.

I just can't grasp it at all.

11 posted on 04/07/2012 5:24:08 PM PDT by boop (I hate hippies and dopeheads. Just hate them. ...Ernest Borgnine)
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To: NYer

What do the Mormons say about it? That he perhaps took the time to visit his brother?


12 posted on 04/07/2012 5:25:43 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: count-your-change
Where was Jesus? In the grave, dead. according to Matt.16:21 he wasn’t resurrected until the third day so until he actually was resurrected he was dead and did nothing and went nowhere

So when did He preach to the 'spirits in prison' as outlined in 1 Peter, unless He did so during the three days?

13 posted on 04/07/2012 5:28:13 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Talisker

It’s Matthew (and other inspired writers) that contradict the dogmas and creeds. There is no other way to take Matthew’s word other than literally.


14 posted on 04/07/2012 5:33:17 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: imardmd1

“This is a doctrine that the fundamental, independent, Bible-believing immersionist (Baptist-type) also believes.”

Give us a Book, chapter and verse, will you?

I grew up in a very conservative, “immersionist” (Anabaptist derived) no music/no nonsense, evangelical, fundamentalist church.
I must have been napping when the sermon shouter preached about Jesus going down to Hell to save those who had the bad luck to die before He did.


15 posted on 04/07/2012 5:37:21 PM PDT by tumblindice (our new, happy lives)
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place marker


16 posted on 04/07/2012 5:40:33 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: boop
“But he said to the thief: “Today you will be with me in Paradise”.

Without punctuation in the Greek this promise must be understood in the context of Jesus being dead for three days before being resurrected.

“He also said: “The dead, they know nothing.” And several times refers to dead people as “sleeping”. Indeed as the Congregator made clear in Eccl.

What is confusing is the attempts to force Scripture to fit the teaching and dogmas of men.

17 posted on 04/07/2012 5:40:55 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
It’s Matthew (and other inspired writers) that contradict the dogmas and creeds. There is no other way to take Matthew’s word other than literally.

Even regular folks don't lay dead in a grave. Either we don't have souls and the dead rotting body lays in th e dirt and any "we" ended when it dead, so there's no one to experience being in the grave (in which case why are we discussing this?) - or, we have souls, and when the body drops and is buried and rots, "we" are nowhere near it (unless we have the ability to choose to haunt it, but we're still not in the rotting body.

That's us.

Way I figure it, Jesus has a few more options than we do.

But believe what you want.

18 posted on 04/07/2012 5:41:26 PM PDT by Talisker (He who commands, must obey.)
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To: count-your-change

Catholics believe (and so do I) that Christ’s body was in the grave, but his soul was alive and he went to free the good people who were waiting for him to be the first one into heaven.

One of the Gospels talks about the people rising from their tombs and roaming around Jerusalem, but not everyone could see them.


19 posted on 04/07/2012 5:51:47 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: al_c

chuckle. I think he was hearing “Simon, Satan has demanded to sift you like wheat, but I have prayed that your faith would not fail...”


20 posted on 04/07/2012 5:51:52 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (I think in about 5 - no, 4 - years I'll have had enough.)
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To: NYer

He descended into hell. Victorious. With the keys of life and death and hell. To prove to those there He had the power, that death was not victorious over Him, and to take those in Abraham’s bosom - up to Heaven with Him.

On the third day, He arose again, in fulfillment of the Scriptures.


21 posted on 04/07/2012 5:52:25 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: boop

The “Paradise” was not heaven. It was a waiting place, sort of a limbo, where the good souls were waiting.

Many people make this error, so don’t feel bad.


22 posted on 04/07/2012 5:53:51 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: count-your-change

Are you trying to tell Catholics what to believe?

Are you trying to say that the Bible is not true?


23 posted on 04/07/2012 5:55:25 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: tumblindice

***...to save those who had the bad luck to die before He did.***

Here is your error. Jesus went to Hades to deliver up the righteous dead, not the unsaved dead.


24 posted on 04/07/2012 6:05:49 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: boop

Move the comma from, “Truly I say, today you will be with me in paradise,” to “Truly I say today, you will be with me in paradise.” Makes a big difference.


25 posted on 04/07/2012 6:12:13 PM PDT by Hootowl
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To: NYer
Where is Jesus after he Dies?

Possibly preaching to the spirits in captivity (I Peter 4:6)? His soul was in hell, but it wasn't left there (Acts 2:30).
26 posted on 04/07/2012 6:14:24 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: NYer
to free the just who had gone before him.

If God has always been, why would He have permitted the "just" to go to hell and suffer?

27 posted on 04/07/2012 6:14:33 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco
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To: Talisker
The hope Jesus spoke of was the resurrection from the memorial tombs (John 5:28,29), that which Paul called the resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous. (Acts 24:15)

“Even regular folks don't lay dead in a grave.”

Says who? Not the Scriptures since if the regular (righteous and unrighteous) folks weren't dead they wouldn't need to be resurrected from death.

28 posted on 04/07/2012 6:14:48 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Salvation

Catholics will believe as they will, I was pointing out the Bible says which often conflicts Catholic teachings.

Is this one of your “gotcha” questions?


29 posted on 04/07/2012 6:21:44 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: the invisib1e hand
I’m given to pondering what the disciples were thinking during these Three Days.

Pete was wondering about catching fish.

30 posted on 04/07/2012 6:25:48 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: count-your-change
In the grave, dead. according to Matt.16:21 he wasn’t resurrected until the third day

Are we SURE?

No one NOTICED that He was out of the grave until the third day.

Remember what He told the repentant thief?

TODAY you shall be with Me in paradise."

31 posted on 04/07/2012 6:27:53 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: count-your-change
Catholics will believe as they will, I was pointing out the Bible says which often conflicts Catholic teachings.

A. generally what has been passed down to us from the Apostles. B. Can you please prove this? Just one example should suffice.

32 posted on 04/07/2012 6:28:33 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (I think in about 5 - no, 4 - years I'll have had enough.)
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To: Revolting cat!

“What do the Mormons say about it?”

i’m sure if you asked one of their missionaries they would be glad to discuss it with you. [non-sarc]


33 posted on 04/07/2012 6:31:16 PM PDT by IWONDR
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

My error? I don’t care to hear from the Book of Ruy Dias de Bivar, but thanks anyway.

“Give us a Book, chapter and verse, will you?”

Here, I’ll give you a nudge: Revelation 22:18-19,
“For I testify unto every ... If any man shall add unto
these things, God shall add unto him the plagues


34 posted on 04/07/2012 6:34:25 PM PDT by tumblindice (our new, happy lives)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
True. He descended there to free those in that part of hades we call paradise (Abraham’s Bosom). when HE ascended on high he took this train of captives with him.

This, I have been taught and believed all my life. Still do.

35 posted on 04/07/2012 6:36:21 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (Haggai 1, V6.. and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes. (My plight))
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To: Salvation
Catholics believe (and so do I) that Christ’s body was in the grave, but his soul was alive and he went to free the good people who were waiting for him to be the first one into heaven.

We share a common belief there. I'm Baptist.

36 posted on 04/07/2012 6:39:15 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (Haggai 1, V6.. and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes. (My plight))
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To: Hot Tabasco; NYer
If God has always been, why would He have permitted the "just" to go to hell and suffer?

It sounds as though you may be interpreting "hell" in the popular version as a place over which Satan rules, tormenting lost souls as God rules over heaven, where the souls of the blessed go when they die. This is not a Christian understanding of hell. There are at least three words in the New Testament translated as "hell"": Gehenna, Tartaros, and Hades. Hades was where everyone who died ended up in the sense understood by many of the region that had been Hellenized. The bosom of Abraham described in Luke 16:23 may have been understood as a subdivision of Hades inhabited by the just but able to be seen from other subdivisions, as though from a far distance, by those who are not so just, all of them waiting for the final judgment, however that's to be worked out. In either case, the South Park caricature of hell is not a caricature of a Christian doctrine of hell.
37 posted on 04/07/2012 6:43:32 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: All

I’m guessing the reason no one is providing any biblical authority for the position that Jesus actually journeyed down to Hell (like Herakles to Hades) after having been crucified and having died, is because it simply doesn’t exist.
It’s just something passed down from generation-to-generation and people say, “Well, that’s what I was taught so that’s what I believe.”


38 posted on 04/07/2012 6:46:12 PM PDT by tumblindice (our new, happy lives)
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To: Salvation

Well; it seems that we will be disagreeing about this until the SECOND Coming. (Don’t tell the MORMONs)

But the question that bugs me is, “What was Jesus WEARING after the Resurrection?”

The soldiers took away the scarlet robe they’d placed on Him and replaced His own clothes on Him... MT 27:31

Then, after the crucifixion, they gambled for His clothes... MT 27:35

Then Joseph wrapped His body with clean linen... MT 27:60

Then, after the resurrection, Peter saw the linen strips; lying by themselves... LK 24:12 & JN 20:6

Thus my question.


39 posted on 04/07/2012 6:46:49 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Salvation
One of the Gospels talks about the people rising from their tombs and roaming around Jerusalem, but not everyone could see them.

The first is true, but the second is unfounded. Matt 27:52-53

40 posted on 04/07/2012 6:48:58 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Graybeard58

Many of us share beliefs like this. Many more than one wowuld think by glancing at the Religion Forum run of the mill posts.

Happy Pasch!


41 posted on 04/07/2012 6:49:49 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Elsie

Only the believers could see them. The Pharisees could not see them.


42 posted on 04/07/2012 6:51:00 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
Paul, in the ninth and tenth chapters of Hebrews said Christ had to appear in heaven with his sacrifice before anyone could be freed, Christ acting as a high priest.

That didn't take place for some time after Christ's resurrection.

“One of the Gospels talks about the people rising from their tombs and roaming around Jerusalem, but not everyone could see them.”

What occurred there is connected with an earthquake that opened the tombs and must be viewed in the context of when Christ was to pay the ransom for mankind, returning to heaven.

43 posted on 04/07/2012 6:53:29 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Jesus went to Hades to deliver up the righteous dead, not the unsaved dead.

But WHY?

I fully expect to SLEEP until the Last Trump calls ME forth from the tomb; to the Great White Throne Judgement.

Why should the earlier folks do any different?

44 posted on 04/07/2012 6:54:14 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

Matthew was sure. Jesus was sure (Luke 24:46) who are the doubters?

“TODAY you shall be with Me in paradise.”

That’s almost what he said.


45 posted on 04/07/2012 7:07:41 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Hootowl
In actual Greek texts from the era when Koine Greek was used as a day-to-day language, Greek was written with no punctuation*.
The words ran together completely, with no spacing or markup.
 Accents, breathing marks, spaces, and other punctuation are added at a much later time, making texts easier to read.
 
 
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Koine_Greek/2
 

 


46 posted on 04/07/2012 7:11:58 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
Pete was wondering about catching fish.

And Guinness. Don't forget about Guinness.


47 posted on 04/07/2012 7:16:22 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Elsie
I fully expect to SLEEP until the Last Trump calls ME forth from the tomb; to the Great White Throne Judgement. Why should the earlier folks do any different?

Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise.

But in all seriousness, we are called on the Last Day to appear before Him. But we must differentiate the particular Judgement from the general Judgement. They are different and happen at different times. The particular Judgement happens immediately after death.

48 posted on 04/07/2012 7:25:12 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Elsie

Exactly! The placement of the comma in English is arbitrary, and where you put it changes the meaning completely.


49 posted on 04/07/2012 7:27:48 PM PDT by Hootowl
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To: count-your-change

The place of the dead was called in the Old Testament by the Hebrew word “Sheol.” It had two parts, the place of the unbelieving, unrighteous dead, and the place of the believing, righteous dead, that Jesus called “Paradise.” The division between the two parts is described in Jesus’ story of Lazarus who had died, but couldn’t even give a man who had tormented and despised him in his earthly life a drink of water.

Jesus went to Sheol when He died. He preached to the righteous dead, and led them out of that place, ultimately taking them to heaven to be with Him after His resurrection when he ascended and sat down at the right hand of the Father. Hence Paul’s later “absent from the body, present with the Lord” formulation. Since the Lord’s resurrection and ascension all believers have gone immediately into the Lord’s presence, without any detours, where they await the physical bodily resurrection of the believers at the return of Christ to the earth.

The unrighteous dead remain in Sheol, awaiting the end and the White Throne judgement, after which Sheol, and all its remaining inhabitants, will be cast into the Lake of Fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

I don’t have time this evening to look up all the references, but in short, that’s what the Bible teaches.


50 posted on 04/07/2012 7:28:42 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (You can be a Romney Republican or you can be a conservative. You can't be both. Pick one.)
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