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Mormons have sub-par Easter services [testimony from a Mormon]
Wheat and Tares.org ^ | April 8, 2012 | Mormon Heretic

Posted on 04/08/2012 6:19:43 PM PDT by Colofornian

There were some interesting comments from the poll yesterday. I won’t say that our poll is representative of Mormons in general, but I do agree with the results. As of the time I wrote this, 75% of people who responded to our poll say that “Mormons have sub-par Easter services”. Why is that?

Last Sunday was Palm Sunday. SteveS noted that there were “0 references to Jesus’ entry into Jerusalem, no shout outs to Palm Sunday festivities celebrating Christ as Lord and Son of God. No hosannas shouted that day. Hardly any references at all to the upcoming Easter holy day.”

Actually, I checked, and the word Easter was never mentioned.

Jared noted a 1994 talk from Dallin Oaks that “In too many of our classes, in too many of our worship services, we are not teaching of Christ and testifying of Christ in the way we should.”

So, I thought it would be interesting to see what Oaks spoke about in Conference. His talk was titled “Sacrifice”, and he does talk about the Atonement and sacrifice of Christ. But the word “Easter” is completely absent, as is “Palm Sunday.” Why? What is it about our leadership that seems to ignore Palm Sunday completely? And why was Easter (just one week away) never mentioned at General Conference? (I checked for the word “Easter” in every talk, and it was NEVER mentioned–I checked the Women’s meeting the week before and it wasn’t mentioned there either.)

I wish Mormons celebrated, rather than simply observed, the Easter holiday. It would be nice to have more of a celebration of Easter; I really like Easter gets the short shrift for celebrations, but I think that Christmas celebrations in our church are lacking as well. Four years ago, I posted the question, Why don’t Mormons celebrate Easter? It is my #2 post this month! I always receive a spike in hits for that post around Easter. If you do a Google search asking “do Mormons celebrate Easter”, my post comes up on the #8 position (In past years, it was as high as #2).

Is this one of those things we do to be a “peculiar people”? Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t celebrate Easter either. Are we trying to be more like them? No, because we love Easter Egg hunts, and candy. Why do we emphasize the wrong aspects of Easter?

Many of us read the Christmas story before Christmas. How many of you read the Easter story before Easter?


TOPICS: Current Events; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Worship
KEYWORDS: easter; lds; mormon; services; wehatemormons
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To: SoConPubbie; 23 Everest; Colofornian
Mormon proclaims that Jesus Christ was once Man, in direct contradiction to the Bible that declares that Jesus Christ was always God.

Actually, that should have been:

Mormon proclaims that Jesus Christ started as a man, in direct contradiction to the Bible that declares that Jesus Christ was always God.
51 posted on 04/08/2012 9:47:35 PM PDT by SoConPubbie
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To: 23 Everest

This is the religion forum and a post about mormonism, if you want a religion forum post about islam - post it.


52 posted on 04/08/2012 9:48:59 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw

mormonism is not Christianity.
If you want to talk about islam start a new thread.
If you feel that whatever is ok, then start a new thread.
If you can not see that mormonism is a cult start a new thread.
place marker


53 posted on 04/08/2012 9:52:34 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: SoConPubbie

I know there is a group of you that respond to these post.

Work at trying to get a Republican elected as president. What is it about being able to practice your religion that you have a problem with. Do you people go after VooDoo? Atheist?

Why the concentrated effort against a group that wants 10% of your gross?

You’er light weights.


54 posted on 04/08/2012 9:53:04 PM PDT by 23 Everest (When seconds count. The police are just 23 minutes away. 831 Bonnie)
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To: 23 Everest
I know there is a group of you that respond to these post.

Work at trying to get a Republican elected as president. What is it about being able to practice your religion that you have a problem with. Do you people go after VooDoo? Atheist?

Why the concentrated effort against a group that wants 10% of your gross?

You’er light weights.


Now there is a post that makes no sense.
55 posted on 04/08/2012 9:54:56 PM PDT by SoConPubbie
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To: 23 Everest
Work at trying to get a Republican elected as president. What is it about being able to practice your religion that you have a problem with. Do you people go after VooDoo? Atheist?

Kind of tipped off your hand there didn't you.

This isn't an attempt to hurt Mitt Romney, this is an attempt to shed light on the false religion of Mormonism.
56 posted on 04/08/2012 9:56:37 PM PDT by SoConPubbie
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To: 23 Everest

> I’m going to read anything you post as fact.

Notice that in my last post I did not post links from Christian, secular, Democrat or ex-Mormon websites. Rather, to establish facts about Mormonism and its proximity to Islam, I posted direct links to:

- The official Mormon Church website
- Brigham Young University school of religious studies
- Islamic texts translated by Brigham Young University and published through the University of Chicago Press
- Deseret News, a semi-official Mormon news agency
- A joint conference between Mormon and Muslim theologians sponsored by Utah university with close ties to the Mormon Church.

Notice also that each of these links refers to contemporary Mormon belief/cooperation with Islam.

If you don’t believe these sources represent Mormon belief concerning and/or cooperation with Islam, then I’m not sure you will find any source convincing.

Regardless, the sources are there for anyone who wishes to investigate further.


57 posted on 04/08/2012 9:58:57 PM PDT by NorthernCrunchyCon (Christ is risen!)
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To: SoConPubbie

Not at all, what did you read into that post that wasn’t really there? Something you didn’t want to hear/know?


58 posted on 04/08/2012 10:00:07 PM PDT by 23 Everest (When seconds count. The police are just 23 minutes away. 831 Bonnie)
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To: svcw

> This is the religion forum and a post about mormonism, if you want a religion forum post about islam - post it.

I both understand and appreciate where you are coming from, but if Romney apologists want to accuse Christians concerned with their candidate of cozying up to Islam, I’m willing to play. And if these same Romney apologists want to dispute sources, I’m willing to stick to official and semi-official Mormon sources. I’ll even limit myself to contemporary Mormon sources.

Again, here are five official and semi-official contemporary Mormon sources concerning Mormonism’s close relationship with Islam:

http://www.lds.org/ensign/2000/08/a-latter-day-saint-perspective-on-muhammad?lang=eng

http://www.uvu.edu/religiousstudies/mormonismandislam/

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353014/Muslims-attending-BYU-focus-on-similarities-between-Islam-LDS-tenets.html

http://news.byu.edu/archive12-feb-beautyandbelief.aspx

http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/series/BYU-ITS.html

Which one would Mitt apologists like to dispute?


59 posted on 04/08/2012 10:10:43 PM PDT by NorthernCrunchyCon (Christ is risen!)
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To: SoConPubbie

It’s a waste of our time to debate. I think you are wrong.


60 posted on 04/08/2012 10:14:43 PM PDT by 23 Everest (When seconds count. The police are just 23 minutes away. 831 Bonnie)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

I may have misunderstood your posts.
These posts are primarily interested in exposing mormonISM.
Romney is a mormon, he is who he is because he is a mormon not in spite of it. To understand Romney you must understand mormonism.
And yes there is a clear alignment between islam and mormonism, dozens of references have been posted in the past to verify this.
There are few posters whom you have responded to are anti-Christian and describe their so called defense as a defense of mormons and against so called bigotry, it is not. I believe you will soon recognize them.


61 posted on 04/08/2012 10:21:48 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw

Okay, thanks for the explanation, and my apologies for being the cause of the misunderstanding. I agree with you concerning the need to expose Mormonism as non-Christian. What alerted me to the danger is the recent escalation across cyberspace of attacks against the three historic Christian creeds perpetuated by Mormon apologists.


62 posted on 04/08/2012 10:30:13 PM PDT by NorthernCrunchyCon (Christ is risen!)
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To: Jeff Head; Colofornian
Well, I have never expeienced “sub-par” Easter services in any LDS congregation I have attended in 42 years.

So Jeff, if all you have attended in 42 years are Mormon services on Easter, how would you know what a real Easter service in a real Christian church is like?
63 posted on 04/08/2012 11:11:23 PM PDT by SoConPubbie
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To: Colofornian
Really, on Easter, none of us should be arguing!

And I'll admit what is probably a sin but may stop some of the back and forth here if it makes one person laugh a little—

Saturday night I kind of wished our Catholic Easter Vigil was, well maybe not sub- par, but a little shorter. I had such a bad headache but the Priest went on and on. It was a beautiful service but the kids were exhausted, and the church was packed. The Priest went outside to light some candles and other things and it was so windy they wouldn't light. He still had a microphone on and at one point I thought he was going to swear at the flame that kept going out, but he didn't! We were hearing his whole conversation and kind of started to laugh. Finally we heard over the speakers, “Father, you may want to turn your microphone off until you come back in.” and then the Priest to us all, “Oh, ok, sorry everyone.” after that it was nice, my headache got better and I got teary eyed, which my kids know means it was a well done touching service but I still embarrass them!

64 posted on 04/08/2012 11:23:37 PM PDT by MacMattico
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To: mamelukesabre

How does one identify as being “Christian” and not celebrate Easter?


65 posted on 04/09/2012 12:39:59 AM PDT by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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To: MacMattico
“Father, you may want to turn your microphone off until you come back in.”
----
-lol- Glad I stuck around to read all the comments. Here's a helpful link for those interested: Comparing Mormonism.
66 posted on 04/09/2012 2:34:27 AM PDT by mlizzy (And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell others not to kill? --MT)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon

Also Holy Thursday, which honors the Lord’s Last Supper and the washing of the feet to make the Easter Tridium.


67 posted on 04/09/2012 3:33:48 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Colofornian
DAD already HAS a body; so mine being raised is not a big deal...



68 posted on 04/09/2012 4:23:35 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: magritte

Poor magritte...

No one picks on Noahides; so he has to sympathize with SOME group!


69 posted on 04/09/2012 4:25:29 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: magritte
No one picks on Noahides; so he has to sympathize with SOME group!

Ya COULD help out us poor CHRISTIANS every now and then!!




Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

70 posted on 04/09/2012 4:27:22 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: BlueMoose
In the following excerpts, President Monson shares his testimony of and gratitude for the Savior’s Resurrection and declares that because the Son conquered death, all of the Father’s children who come to earth will live again.
 
 
 
 In doing so, He gave us life beyond this mortal existence.
No; He didn't.  We alREADY have that 'life'.  Where we SPEND eternity is the difference HE made.
 
 We know, for we have the light of revealed truth. …
Arrogant little so-and-so!
 
...I lift up my voice in testimony as a special witness and declare that God does live.
The Church Lady says... "Well! Isn't THAT special!!"
 
 You could ask family members the following questions: “What does it mean to you that a living prophet has testified of these truths today?
Or you could ask, "What has Tommy 'prophesied' lately?

71 posted on 04/09/2012 4:36:04 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: magritte
Enjoy the religion that you’ve settled on in this diverse country we enjoy.

And then DIE, and await the Great White Throne Judgement.


M; is YOUR name written in the Book of LIFE?

72 posted on 04/09/2012 4:37:38 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Jeff Head
Our Savior was emphasized after the completion of pour main services.

Gee Jeff; that is GREAT!

73 posted on 04/09/2012 4:39:10 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

Office of First President & Living Prophet®:

December 11st, 2011

 

URGENT!

Fellow MORMON Freeper Christians!!

I've been getting lots of feedback from those of you on Free Republic (spit) about a certain Colorfornicator (or something like that), who is REALLY giving us a hard time there.
 
Why not try to point out to the uninformed how OBSESSED he seems to be.
 
Let's see if we can tangle him up so much trying to defend his reputation that he'll no longer have as much time to post facts about MORMONism.
 
As always, Tommy M.

74 posted on 04/09/2012 4:40:32 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Raider Sam
Its an anger issue.



75 posted on 04/09/2012 4:42:17 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon
I was noticing that we were focusing more on “prophets” and “principles” and silly discussions on questions of whether or not vegetarians were breaking the Word of Wisdom!

WHAT??

That's like wondering if Flds folks are breaking....




The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.
.
.
.
58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.


 

58 Now, as touching the law of the apriesthood, there are many things pertaining thereunto.

59 Verily, if a man be called of my Father, as was aAaron, by mine own voice, and by the voice of him that bsent me, and I have endowed him with the ckeys of the power of this priesthood, if he do anything in my name, and according to my law and by my word, he will not commit dsin, and I will justify him.

60 Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God.

61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

62 And if he have aten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to amultiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be bglorified.

64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.

65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take aHagar to wife.

66 And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present. Behold, I am Alpha and Omega. Amen.


76 posted on 04/09/2012 4:44:52 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: NorthernCrunchyCon
I was noticing that we were focusing more on “prophets” and “principles” and silly discussions on questions of whether or not vegetarians were breaking the Word of Wisdom!

WHAT??

MORMONs who eat MEAT in the SUMMER are the LAW-BREAKERS!!!



77 posted on 04/09/2012 4:46:01 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: mamelukesabre
I know your posting history.

GOOD!!

Then "I didn't know that!" will not be an excuse later.

78 posted on 04/09/2012 4:47:53 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: 23 Everest
Why not attack Islam, which does way more harm than being Mormon.

MUSLIMs do not LIE and claim to be CHRISTIANs.


And if you are thinking about the head chopping off angle...


I do not feel threatened by it because I don’t think that they will be attempting to convert by the sword.
 

The gruesome be headings of some 40 Ute corpses in 1850, heads stacked in boxes,
and hung by their long hair from the eves of buildings at Fort Utah,
 has long been ignored, “You didn’t see the Indians beheading the Mormons.”
 
-- Historian Robert Carter

79 posted on 04/09/2012 4:50:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: 23 Everest
That is not a religion of peace.

Neither is CHRISTIANITY.


Matthew 10:34

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth;
I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

80 posted on 04/09/2012 4:53:04 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: 23 Everest
I don’t subscribe to any organized religion but at the same time I don’t criticize any, except Islam.

HMMmmm...

81 posted on 04/09/2012 4:53:51 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: 23 Everest
You hide behind some mysterious code of, well these people are pushing a faults(sic) God. REALLY, that’s all you have????

Uh...

What more do you NEED?


 
 
Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
 
 
Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
 
 
1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.
 
 
1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.
 
 
Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
 
 
1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.
 
 
1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
 
 
2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.
 
 
 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
 
 
2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
 
 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
 
 
Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
 
 
Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.
 
 
Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
 
 
 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.
 
 
 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 
 
2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.



82 posted on 04/09/2012 4:56:13 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: 23 Everest
It doesn’t change the fact that you are wrong.

Post away; but the JURY wants evidence.

We ANTI-mormons - we Flying Inmen - provide it.

We also invite MORMONs to present their evidence as well.

83 posted on 04/09/2012 4:58:39 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Jeff Head
A child-like friend of mine who came for dinner yesterday afternoon had been brought to a Mormon service earlier in the day. I asked her to describe the service. She said, "They talked a lot about something called the atonement." That was good enough for me!

She also said some ladies there spoke of "getting her in a skirt."

"Good luck with that!" she quipped! "I'll wear whatever I wanna wear to church."

The Lord knows those who are His own, and there is no one snatching from His hand (John 10)!

84 posted on 04/09/2012 4:58:49 AM PDT by .30Carbine (God bless you with the spirit of wisdom and understanding)
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To: 23 Everest
You’re response makes not sense.

If your enemy is quick to anger, seek to irritate him. - Sun Tuz

85 posted on 04/09/2012 5:00:05 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: 23 Everest
...there is no way in hell I’m going to read anything you post as fact.

You might be JUST a little bit prejudiced.

86 posted on 04/09/2012 5:01:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: svcw
is is the religion forum and a post about mormonism, if you want a religion forum post about islam - post it.

OK; I WILL! And get two birds with one stone!



“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1]

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

  • Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

  • Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

  • Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

  • As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

  • Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

  • Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

  • Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

  • Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

  • Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, look to Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib, whom they consider Divinely appointed, as the rightful successor to Muhammad, and the first imam. (Ali was the cousin and son-in-law of the Islamic prophet Muhammad). Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith's followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith's own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

  • Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith's claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.


[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.




87 posted on 04/09/2012 5:05:58 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: 23 Everest
You’er light weights.

O...

K...

88 posted on 04/09/2012 5:06:57 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: 23 Everest
What is it about being able to practice your religion that you have a problem with.

HYPOCRIT: one who professes one thing; yet does the opposite.


What is it about being able to show the HERESY, that is the MORMONism religion, that you have a problem with.

89 posted on 04/09/2012 5:09:32 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: 23 Everest
It’s a waste of our time to debate. I think you are wrong.

Only YOUR time.

You are NOT 'debating', but continuing to say, "You are wrong!" without any contrary evidence.

If you decide to actually debate these issues; we'll be here.

90 posted on 04/09/2012 5:11:41 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: MacMattico
Really, on Easter, none of us should be arguing!

Why not?

Souls are going to hell as I type this!!!

91 posted on 04/09/2012 5:13:11 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian

Does that mean that the Mormons do not have painted eggs and baskets with little handles on them, and bunny rabits? How childish.


92 posted on 04/09/2012 7:21:54 AM PDT by ravenwolf (reIf you believe that Nero was the anti-Christ, and among othJust a bit of the long list of proofsre)
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To: 23 Everest; SoConPubbie

“It’s a waste of our time to debate. I think you are wrong.”


You have spoken; the thinking has been done.


93 posted on 04/09/2012 7:39:54 AM PDT by freedomlover (Make sure you're in love - before you move in the heavy stuff)
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To: wildandcrazyrussian
Just because a wacko group misappropriates the name of Christian does NOT make it so. This holds for any heretical group that denies the essential and definitional truth of Christ’s atoning Crucifixion and bodily Resurrection. This has been common knowledge for 2,000 years, and no false prophet is gong to get away with defining away the very essence of Christianity.

Well said!

94 posted on 04/09/2012 7:47:19 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Mormon missionaries are Christianophobe bigots denigrating Christian faiths.)
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To: Colofornian

All in a days work.

(Oh, that’s right...it’s just another “workin’” day for ya, given that the Sunday isn’t the Sabbath to you & Resurrection Sunday/Easter must be almost totally meaningless 2U, eh?)


Sorry to butt in here, but if some one does not think that Sunday is the sabbath how can they be criticized for that?

The Bible plainly says that the seventh day is the sabbath, Sunday is the first day

And where does the Bible say anything about celebrating with colored eggs and rabits.

I honestly believe any one who really believes that Jesus was the son of God and is the Messiah could not possibly believe all of the things that were put on by the church of Constantine in order to get the pagans to join the Christian Church, Christmass, Easter, Halloween. Pagan, pagan, pagan.


Rev 11:10
And those who dwell on the earth {will} rejoice over them and celebrate; and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

I don,t know for sure what that is referring to but it sure does not make me comfortable with Christmas.


95 posted on 04/09/2012 7:53:32 AM PDT by ravenwolf (reIf you believe that Nero was the anti-Christ, and among othJust a bit of the long list of proofsre)
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To: greyfoxx39

Here is the problem. There is no “name” police to say who can or can not call themselves christian.


96 posted on 04/09/2012 7:53:45 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: svcw

Rabi ? Dunno who that is, sport. I do, however, feel sorry for you. Sad life you lead.


97 posted on 04/09/2012 7:54:34 AM PDT by magritte (Don't blame me. I voted for a real conservative, Rick Perry.)
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To: 23 Everest; NorthernCrunchyCon
there is no way in hell I’m going to read anything you post as fact.

ROTFLOL....NorthernCrunchyCon posts links to five sources, four of which are mormon sources, BYU, Deseret News, etc....and Everest says..."there is no way in hell I’m going to read anything you post as fact"

This is SO indicative of the mormon response to factual information about the sect....


98 posted on 04/09/2012 7:56:05 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Mormon missionaries are Christianophobe bigots denigrating Christian faiths.)
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To: Elsie

White Throne? Is that close to where you tie up the White Horse? Colour me confused. Why is there never a Seventh Day Adventist around when you need them?

My name in the Book Of Life? You bet, along with every tear I’ve shed.


99 posted on 04/09/2012 8:02:55 AM PDT by magritte (Don't blame me. I voted for a real conservative, Rick Perry.)
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To: Jeff Head
After partaking of the sacrament in rembererance and reverance of His atonement...

Since Christians are going to be getting an education in Mormonism throughout this election season, what were the elements of the Lord's Supper?

100 posted on 04/09/2012 8:37:08 AM PDT by CommerceComet (If Mitt can leave the GOP to protest Reagan, why can't I do the same in protest of Romney?)
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