Skip to comments.The Passing of the Primitive Church: Forty Variations on an Unpopular Theme [Lds: JC's church died]
Posted on 04/17/2012 5:51:57 AM PDT by Colofornian
Reprinted by permission from Mormonism and Early Christianity, vol. 4 in The Collected Works of Hugh Nibley (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1987),168208.
...By its very definition church history requires unquestioning acceptance of the basic proposition that the church did survive.
...the normal reaction to the questiondid the church remain on earth?has not been serious inquiry in a richly documented field, but shocked recoil from the edge of an abyss into which few can look without a shudder.
Yet today that question is being asked again...
...The purpose of this paper is to list briefly the principal arguments supporting the thesis that the church founded by Jesus and the apostles did not survive and was not expected to...
The fate of the vast majority of Christians was not to be overcome by a frontal attacktrue martyrs were relatively fewbut to be led astray by perverters...The offenders are not pagans but loudly professing Christians...The Christian masses do not realize what is happening to them; they are "bewitched" by a thing that comes as softly and insidiously as the slinging of a noose.
But if the early saints mention no glorious future for the church, when that should be their strongest comfort...
(Excerpt) Read more at maxwellinstitute.byu.edu ...
Yet these brief excerpts are enough to give you the tenor of how Mormon scholars ignore what stares them in the face: The New Testament...which serves as the best representation of what the early church expected re: the future of the church.
And that is exactly the opposite of what Nibley concludes. [See next posts]
You know, MUCH was made in the MSM about a Texas pastor who supported Gov. Perry labeling Romney's Mormonism as a "cult."
I'm talking about HUNDREDS if not thousands of MSM articles...
...hundreds if not more of blog entries...
...other media-venue coverage (broadcasting)...
So, why has Mitt Romney received a near 100% "cone of silence" -- a near-free pass of what he and his church labels Christian Protestants, Christian Catholics, and Christian Orthodox???
Why was it somehow "relevant" what a Texas pastor believed about Mormonism; but somehow "irrelevant" what Mitt Romney & other Mormon leaders accuse Christians and Christian leaders of?
Why? [Well who does the MSM really want to get the GOP nomination, anyhow?...to make it easier on Obama?]
So...Where are the articles, the blogs, the broadcasts on Mormonism's "revelation" on what they believe Christian churches to be?
When the Jeffress & other "cult" reference articles broke out in the Fall of 2011, that had to be among the most lopsided MIScoverage of relio-politics I've ever seen!!!
A belief of a Texas pastor that nobody had heard of nationally mattered? But what Romney believed about Christians -- as well as his dominant general authorities ... those who might be tempted to reduce him to a "puppet" in the White House ... what they believed about Christians wasn't even worth one article???
'Tis time for a series of articles to redress this:
This thread excerpt comes from an OFFICIAL BYU Web site of the Lds church, which taught Mitt Romney.
For a recent similarly posted article on the so-called UNIVERSAL Christian Apostasy that Mormons accuse Christians of...see...The Apostasy [What Lds believe re: Christians: Label us 'apostates' like Islam calls us 'infidels']
And the Mormon church has more than raised a question; they assume an answer that slanders the worldwide Christian church as having abandoned the faith.
Why did Mormon church founder Joseph Smith assume that the original church of Jesus Christ was totally "lost..." ...to apostasy?
And how did the Mormon concept of a total "restoration" come to be so closely linked with so-called complete Christian apostasy?
(1) No "restoration" can occur minus the complete loss of the original church. (The Mormon founder needed to take a scorched-earth approach to Christians, otherwise he -- and his restoration -- was 100% superflous. Either he was unnecessary, or the Christian church was...so Smith chose the Christian church to be! He essentially tossed all Christians into one gigantic graveyard, and tried to erect a new religion on top of it.
(2) Let's face it, if Smith's "diagnosis" of Christians was wrong, that all did NOT commit apostasy, then no need existed for him or his restoration-from-scratch.
Once contemporary Mormons concede they are other Christians and legitimize other Christians then it proves there was never a need for a "restoration."
From the Mormon article: ...The purpose of this paper is to list briefly the principal arguments supporting the thesis that the church founded by Jesus and the apostles did not survive and was not expected to...The fate of the vast majority of Christians was not to be overcome by a frontal attacktrue martyrs were relatively fewbut to be led astray by perverters...The offenders are not pagans but loudly professing Christians...The Christian masses do not realize what is happening to them; they are "bewitched" by a thing that comes as softly and insidiously as the slinging of a noose.
Yes, the very name of Satan comes from diabolos -- the Slanderer...The Accuser. And the purpose of the Mormon church is to accuse the Christian brethren of outright total apostasy, which Lds.org accomplishes night and day. To Nibley, "the Christian masses...are 'bewitched'...
Yes...Mormons...Mormon leaders believe "Christian masses...are bewitched."
How inspiring is that for Christians -- Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox -- to support this coming election?
This is Hugh Nibley ignoring the most obvious New Testament verses, particularly the apostle Paul's prophesy in Ephesians 3:21.
LDS essentially label Paul as a false prophet when he told the Ephesians: "Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout ALL AGES, world without end. Amen." (Eph. 3:21)
Any Lds here care to point out exactly how it is that Paul falsely prophesied by mentioning which "age" that the church failed to bring glory to God? (Wanna go on record & be exact if youre going to make such a slanderous accusation of the apostle?) How can there "be glory in the church...throughout ALL ages" if it's a total apostasy? Ya wanna speculate exactly what glory was brought to God by the church in the years 400 to 1800 if the current writers defaming the entire Christian church are right?
LDS indirectly label the Father as one who is so weak that He couldnt maintain His promise to ensure that glory in the church would continue throughout all generations, for ever and ever!
For another blasphemy or slanderthe slander of the Holy Spiritwith the LDS labeling the Holy Ghost a liar when the Spirit prophesied that the apostasy would be partial: "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, thqt in the latter times SOME shall depart from the faith..." (1 Tim. 4:1) [Why do they claim the Holy Ghost had trouble with his long-term vision when He communicated what He did to Paul?)
Tell me, why is that the Holy Ghost speaks so "expressly" about this matter in 1 Timothy 4:1, yet LDS are so hostile to what He has to say?
If Mormons would even look at their own scriptures for example Doctrine & Covenants 84:17-18 they'd realize that a proper priesthood is one that is one continuous priesthood! In fact, D&C 86:8 it says it continued thru the lineage of fathers.
Not talking about people accused of being Deists or Untarians, but out and out members of a church called "the Unitarian Church".
Then we elected a guy who belonged to Trinity Church of Christ ~ itself a total parody of a Puritan Church gone astray into Minstrelsy and erzatz gospel music.
We have had a couple of guys who were members of fallen away Quaker churches ~ and far more than our fair share of Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) Presidents!
Someone wants me to come up with a conclusion I am sure ~ but I'm voting for Newt even if he's not on the ticket.
The Collected Works of Hugh Nibley ...
Dr. Nibley has long been one of my favorite LDS apologists.
Nibley was a professor of Middle Eastern languages (Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic) at BYU for nearly 50 years. He was probably competent in his fields of study, but became notorious for his forays into other areas.
Nibley would wander off the reservation in order to defend the Mormon faith ... then, after his arguments were completely debunked, expend enormous amounts of time and effort explaining how he didn't really mean what he wrote and how his change in position really wasn't a change. His two most famous ventures were The Book of Mormon Challenge and his authentication of the Joseph Smith's translation of the Book of Abraham, an endeavor which was exposed as a complete fraud.
Nibley was in his mid-90's when he died a few years ago and is now on his way toward claiming his celestial kingdom and his harem of goddess wives ... such as they exist.
Sooo..... this Nibley believes/concurs... as above...
Thus impugning the recorded words of Christ from Matthew 16:18....
[Christ] will build His church..... and...
....the gates of hell will not prevail against [his church]
Now we know just what kind of "scholar" we are dealing with....
i see it as love, not hate.
Jesus himself, warned us of false prophets and false teachers.
look at the suffering caused by the false prophet Mohammad.
and Jeremiah said you will know a true prophet, for always being correct.
Joseph Smith said that there were 1000 year old people living on the moon, who dressed like Amish !
the Bible says it is evil to lead people astray.
Colofornian is trying to do the opposite.
that is love, not hate.
And under the "M" heading we find:
Soon to be followed by HOURS of Official MORMON writings...
No, Ma'am; we do this for MUCH more than 3 minutes a day!
We've devoted a YEAR or so of our lives; 6 days a week; to bring the news of MORMONism right to your door!
Jim; did you know the Book of MORMON contains the FULLNESS of the Gospel??
Well, if that is "true"...and it must be so 'cause the Mormon leaders say so...
...then what 'bout all these things listed below???
...most of which are definitively "Mormon 'gospel' stuff"...
...If the Book of Mormon is plain "Mormon gospel-full" minus these things...
...Then I guess these things are man-made add-ons tagged on by mere men led of their own accord, eh?
Mormon "sacred" things not found in the Mormon "sacred" BoM:
1. Church organizational structure and titles of leaders [Hey, we don't need to provoke pagans into laughter by coming up with religious titles like the bishopric, do we?]
2. gods...plural [due to insistance by some FReeper Mormons that they only worship one godhead, a few FI have begun referencing that belief as polymonotheism]
3. Plurality of wives doctrine [Ah. Polymonogamy]
4. Word of Wisdom [I guess the people of South America weren't very wise about Brazilian coffee]
5. God is an exalted man [Who knew this facebook boy would make it big? Hmm...a god who worshiped his own god/gods once upon a time, eh?]
6. Celestial marriage [If you want to become an eternal polygamist, current Lds church policy says you can...just make sure you secure permission of anybody you've divorced & get "married" to your multiple SERIAL spouses one at a time in the temple for eternity]
7. Men may become Gods ["Hey, God, move over...you can go ahead & take my measurements for my throne"]
8. Three degrees of glory [Mormons tout resurrection for all; yet John says there's a resurrection unto "damnation" (John 5:29) -- not too glorious]
9. Baptism for the dead [monopoly on the religio-necro industry, that's for sure! I think we should call this a polymonopoly on necro-baptisms...when are they going to open up fast-food-like windows to meet the demand to grow with more genealogical records online?]
10. Eternal progression [at least til you hit the ceiling of your assigned glory...you terrestials aren't getting out!]
11. The Aaronic Priesthood [yeah, like the Bible -- apostle Paul -- says, these 12-year-old "elders" better keep to one wife!]
12. Temple works of washings, anointing, endowments, sealing; along with temple -- at least for its newly re-purposed usage [I guess the people of the Book of Mormon times weren't very "sacred" compared to contemporary Mormons]