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1 posted on 04/17/2012 8:05:58 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; marshmallow; ...

Calling the experts; I have some questions about this article.

Catholic Ping!

2 posted on 04/17/2012 8:09:26 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

There’s no question that Vatican II was a Council of the Church, called by and presided over by the Pope and filled with bishops.

Therefore, it would be preserved from serious error or heresy by the Holy Ghost, as Jesus promised His Church.

But this is not to say that it was necessarily a smart move, or a needed council, or that everything that was done was an improvement in the Church. If you examine the history of Church Councils, some were of major importance, some are pretty much forgotten by all but historians, and some may even have moved things in the wrong direction, to be corrected later. But no heresies.

I think Vatican II certainly produced some very questionable results, even if many of those results were the product of dissidents and liberal heretics who twisted what the Council actually said to their own purposes. There is a big difference between Vatican II and the so-called “spirit of Vatican II” which those dissidents preached. But perhaps it could be argued that the Council was a mistake if it gave them that opportunity. Not heretical, and certainly not justifying splitting off from the Church, or individuals leaving the Church. But not producing the kind of good results that were expected when the Council was convened.

I have read all the documents of Vatican II, and I have not found any signs of heresy in them. Nor have those who criticize the Council ever successfully pointed out any specific examples that are convincingly heretical.

Presumably all those trouble-making bishops and priests and nuns and lay staff who shook up the Church after Vatican II would have found some other excuse to do much the same, in any case. They were already in the Church when the Council was convened. But the Church has gone through even worse crises in the past, most obviously the Manichean heresy which infected the majority of bishops, but has recovered from them by God’s grace. The Church will recover again.

3 posted on 04/17/2012 8:27:07 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Salvation
Interestingly enough, all those errant popes with their shocking private lives, never did anything incorrect when it came to doctrinal and moral TEACHING. They held the line when it came to their papal job.

Lefebvre's story is much simpler: DISOBEDIENCE. He ought to be toast.
But, in the end, he will die and his followers will fade away and Lefebvre's name and life will be a paragraph, then a sentence in the Church history books. Bump in the road, nothing more.

7 posted on 04/18/2012 5:46:17 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: All
Essays for Lent/Easter: Traditionalists [Catholic Caucus]
Essays for Lent/Easter: Women's Ordination
Essays for Lent/Easter: Abortion
Essays for Lent/Easter: Annulment

Essays for Lent/Easter: Divorce and Remarriage
Essays for Lent: Marriage
Essays for Lent: Natural Family Planning
Essays for Lent: Contraception
Essays for Lent: Abstinence
Essays for Lent: The Rapture
Essays for Lent: Call No Man Father
Essays for Lent: Scapulars Medals and Relics
Essays for Lent: Statues and Holy Pictures
Essays for Lent: The Rosary

Essays for Lent: The Assumption
Essays for Lent: The Immaculate Conception
Essays for Lent: Mary Ever-Virgin
Essays for Lent: Praying to Saints
Essays for Lent: Indulgences
Essays for Lent: Purgatory
Essays for Lent: Confession
Essays for Lent: The Eucharist
Essays for Lent: The Mass
Essays for Lent: Baptism

Essays for Lent: Justification
Essays for Lent: Tradition
Essays for Lent: Scripture Alone
Essays for Lent: The Canon of Scripture
Essays for Lent: Papal Infallibility
Essays for Lent: The Pope
Essays for Lent: The Church
Essays for Lent: The Bible
Essays for Lent: The Trinity
Essays for Lent: Creationism or Evolution?

12 posted on 04/18/2012 7:52:19 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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