Skip to comments.How Mitt Romney's supporters Are Like Uncle Leo: Is Anti-Mormonism Lurking Everywhere?
Posted on 04/19/2012 12:53:56 PM PDT by Colofornian
We always knew that Mormonism was going to be a touchy issue in this presidential campaign. After all, there are still many Americans who express discomfort with the idea of a Mormon president (up to 40 percent, depending on how you ask the question). But it's one thing when you ask that question in the abstract, and quite another when we're talking about a particular Mormon. In that case, I'm fairly sure that nearly everyone is going to decide their votes on how they feel about Mitt Romney and Barack Obama, not how they feel about Joseph Smith. Even Robert Jeffress, the Baptist minister and Rick Perry supporter who only a couple of months ago denounced Mormonism as a "cult," just announced that he'll be supporting a member of that cult for president, since Obama is so vile unto his sight. But all that doesn't mean that the Romney campaign and its supporters aren't going to be on the lookout for any anti-Mormon slights, so long as they come from Democrats.
You may remember that back in August, the Obama campaign called Romney "weird," and conservatives immediately rushed to charge that this was a dog whistle to anti-Mormon voters, since "weird" is obviously code for "Mormon." And now it's starting up again. Alec MacGillis at TNR has a good roundup of some recent cries of anti-Mormonism from Romney supporters, including the idea that when the Obama campaign criticized Romney for a "penchant for secrecy," they were plainly trying to get people to think "Mormon!" because the LDS church is secretive.
This is all pretty ridiculous, not least because you have a situation where the supporters of one candidate are accusing the supporters of another candidate of dog whistling on a topic both actual candidates have no desire at all to discuss. Furthermore, the voters most likely to feel a strong aversion to Mormonism are evangelical Christians, who vote overwhelmingly Republican anyway, and it isn't like too many of them are going to be persuaded to vote for Barack Obama based on some winking and nodding about "weirdness." There are so many other things that the Obama campaign wants to attack Romney on; they hardly need to invest energy in trying to get people to vote against him because of his religion, which would risk an enormous backlash.
So Romney's supporters end up sounding a lot like the old Jewish man who sees anti-Semitism everywhere. Romney's weird? Anti-Mormonism! Romney's secretive? Anti-Mormonism! Romney's stiff? Anti-Mormonism! It brings to mind this classic from Annie Hall, where Woody Allen is convinced that when someone said "Did you eat?" to him, what the guy was really saying was, "Jew eat?"
Compared to what Christians have gone thru worldwide for 2,000 years, Mormons don't even know how to define "persecution" or "oppression." In 180 years, Mormons have killed more non-Mormons than the reverse when you include the Indian wars of the West, Mountain Meadow Massacre, the war on calvary troops, the battles in Missouri, etc. Yet that hasn't stopped the Lds from expressing this overly sensitized persecution complex...
The Lds suffered...
...less than five months' (all told - in two different calendar years) of conflict in Missouri in the 1830s [part of it initiated by them]
...a few years of Illinois inhospitality and one day of mob activity in the 1840s,
...mass arrests re: polygamy in the 1880s
...and yet news article after news article recounts how much "persecution" they've undergone!
And the Romney camp wants to pick it up from there!
From the article: Furthermore, the voters most likely to feel a strong aversion to Mormonism are evangelical Christians, who vote overwhelmingly Republican anyway, and it isn't like too many of them are going to be persuaded to vote for Barack Obama based on some winking and nodding about "weirdness."
(Tho Evangelicals can be persuaded to vote third-party!)
Well. Why apologize? The Mormon church and Mitt Romney both are indeed quite secretive!!!
What is one of the criteria of a cult?
(Hence, we see Web headlines like: Mormonism's Real Secret Doctrine + the link below)
Or, when you have the bizarre temple oaths sworn -- as depicted by Packham in the link below and also found here: Why the need for secret death oaths in the LDS Temple Endowment Ceremony? [Secretive Mormon church]
Of course, when you have these kind of bizarre beliefs as posted in the previous post, mum's the word.
Secret, secret, secret
Fulness of the gospel NOT in the Book of Mormon. Secret to prospects - they'd look in vain for the primary Mormon teachings to be taught there.
Original "old plates" Joseph supposedly found. Secreted away.
The founder, Joseph not telling wife Emma about women he had affairs with (Fanny & others) 1831 & beyond. Secret.
Mormons not putting the polygamy doctrine in writing until the 1850s. Secret.
Bloody victims' clothes & orphans from Mountain Meadows Massacre, 1857. Secret for two years.
Mountain Meadows Massacre culprits. Conspired amongst each other to never tell. Secret.
Mormonism openly false 19th century teachings like Adam-is-god and blood atonement. Unacknowledged as former teachings. They wish these were a secret.
Mormon polygamists hiding out from the feds in 1880s. Secret hideaways.
Lds Plural marriages 1890-1910. Secret.
Lds temple ceremonies. Secret.
Lds weddings in temples. Secret.
Secret underwear power. Very secret.
Mormons believe thousands of deceased Mormons practicing polygamy in another realm. "Open" Secret.
History not "faith promoting" to Lds church and former leaders. Tendency to tuck away. Secreted away.
fLDS families -- the "living daguerreotype" of what 19th century Mainstream Mormon families were often like -- tucked away in out-of-the-way communities. Treated like the crazy aunt to lock away in the basement closet.
No wonder a BYU history prof wrote a book, "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View." "Magic" is a sub-category of the occult. And what does the word "occult" mean? (Yup, Latin for "hidden" -- as in secret).
Note how BYU even conceded the occultic worldview Mormon foundational premise of Quinn's book here: BYU Review of Early Mormonism and the Magic World View
Oh...and for some of the "inside secrets" of the Mormon church? Go here:
Mitt Romney's Mormon Secrets [Temple oaths, secrets, secret tokens/passwords to heaven revealed]
The author of the above article notes: In all the extensive media coverage of Mitt Romney, much of it discussing his religion, not a word have I seen about the secrets of Mormonism, the secrets of Romney's life-long beliefs and practices. The reason, of course, is obvious: nobody can talk about a secret unless they are in on the secret. And few journalists or Christian ministers or anti-Mitt politicians are in on the secret. Only Mormons know the secrets, and they're not going to tell. And former Mormons, like myself, who were initiated into those same secrets, and afterwards left Mormonism - we know the secrets. Should we tell? ... And why does Romney (and his church) want to keep people from knowing those secrets? Most Mormons will claim that they are not "secret," but merely so "sacred" that they cannot be discussed. That is a quibble, since Mormons hold any number of other aspects of their religion to be "sacred," and yet they don't hesitate to discuss them (for example: baptism, conferring the gift of the Holy Ghost, ordination to the priesthood, etc.). In my day, when Mitt and I were initiated into the secrets, we were specifically instructed that we were under "the greatest obligations of secrecy." Nowadays, the Mormons simply take a solemn oath that they will "never reveal" anything about the rituals. That sounds like a secret to any ordinary person, doesn't it? All right. I am going reveal those secrets, since nobody else seems willing and able to do so.
Romney maybe weird, and that may have nothing to do with being a mormon or left wing.
Romney is who he is otherwise because he is a mormon, it is his mormonism that makes him. His mormonism is his core.
It is religious belief that makes all of us who we are, it can not be separated from our being.
mormoism by it’s very foundation is anti-Christian.
This is the religion forum, it is a religious discussion.
If you actually beleive the information presented is incorrect about mormonism, then please provide us with the correct information rather than attacking the poster.
Not anti-mormon anti-mormonISM.
Romney is who he is because of his mormonism not in spite of it.
No, but if you really feel that way ask the admin to remove it from the religion forum and post it in news/activist.
However, since you are not actually debating the content of the post what does it matter to you anyway.
I know you are stuck on me, that is a given.
Again, you are not questioning the information you are commenting on the poster.
If you want a debate or discussion about mormonism then debate or discuss it.
However, since you do not seem to be interested in that aspect, why do you care what is posted about mormonism.
Wolf13 posted this thread yesterday...Liberal attacks on Mitt Romney's Mormonism begin to intensify ... at post #81, I said:
I invite all for people to review the following FR threads ... prompted by Boogieman's lead here:
* The Muslim Side of Obama [Posted June 3, 2009 by Former Farmer]
* Muammar Qadafi Acknowledges that Barack Hussein Obama is Muslim,/a> [Posted Oct. 6, 2008 by Hecht]
* Muslim Obama: WILL STAND WITH MUSLIMS SHOULD POLITICAL WINDS SHIFT IN UGLY DIRECTION [Posted March 29, 2008 by OnRightOnLeftCoast]
* Obama's pro-Muslim words [Posted Nov. 23, 2009 by freedomyes]
* Obama's Five Pillars of ............ [Posted April 14, 2009 by TenthAmendmentChampion]
* David Limbaugh: Is Obama a Christian? [Posted Aug. 27, 2010 by markomalley]
* Connect all the dots on Barack Hussein Obama [Posted Oct. 10, 2008 by savvyguy]
* Barack Obama's Muslim Childhood [Posted April 29, 2008 by PaleoConservative]
* NY Times Pulls Kristof's Piece with Obama's Muslim Call to Prayer [Posted Sept. 8, 2008 by markedmannerf]
* Mideast leader: Obama a Muslim who studied in Islamic schools [Posted Oct. 17, 2008 by Texascajun]
* My Muslim President Obama (02.25.09) [Posted Feb. 25, 2012 by libstripper]
I commend the FREEPERs who posted these articles.
I ask the "hermetically sealed" crowd who wants to "protect" us from investigating the religious realities of POTUS candidates why they didn't come onto these threads above & call the freepers on the carpet for not keeping religion out [...oh, don't bother to answer...we know if you were FREEPERs in '08 & '09, you're just plain religious hypocrites] Finally...if Obama's Muslim ties have been worth investigating...and then to find out how that intersects with his running the White House...then the same applies to Romney & Mormonism...
********** [End of excerpt from yesterday's post]
If any poster clicks on the link above...I linked each of these above headlines @ post #81 ...you can visit any of those threads...
NavyCanDo you've been a FREEPER since '04. All these threads as posted above (by other FREEPERs) re: Obama's alleged Muslim ties were posted during your time as a FR. (And there's been dozens & dozens of others...plus thousands of FREEPER comments about Obama & his "closet" Muslimhood)...
If your religio-political standard is applicable across the board, NavyCanDo...if you think the above posters (& thousands of other FREEPER commentators) have "stooped low" by commenting upon Obama's Muslim prayer...or Obama & his Muslim ties...or Rev. Jeremiah Wright...where were YOU on any of these threads to defend this supposed "low" "intrusion" into Obama's religious expression & ties???????????????????????????????????????? Answer the question...
When it comes to Obama, your precious "Thou Shalt Not Comment Upon Thy POTUS Candidate's Religion" suddenly seems to shrivel & dry up...along with all of your accompanying chastisements of people who violate your dual-faced standards. Why?
you know, Jesus was harshest on the religious hypocrites of His day.
Guess what, NavyCanDo? Based upon your silence in speaking up on behalf of other POTUS candidates' religious ties, you qualify as one
(Oh...I'm sure those threads on Obama I linked @ the link above are all still active...you & your hermetically-sealed hords can probably go back & start chastising all of the FREEPERs who have dared to violate your precious "thou shalt not" standard...better get busy...plenty of FREEPER comments exist out there: re: Islam & Rev. Wright)
Based upon this comment of yours to svcw, permanent ignore...I suggest this to other FREEPERs as well
My understanding is that Romney's family helped create the cult, that his ancestor was an original "apostle", that his family has always been Mormon royalty and power inside the secretive leadership of the cult, that his uncle, or great uncle or something was almost the cult's Pope and a Prophet.
That Romney's father was a Bishop and that Mitt himself is a Bishop, and is expected to become even higher after this president thing is achieved, whether he wins or not, and that the Prophet gave his approval to this mission, in a private meeting with pre-candidate Romney.
Santorum , and Palin 'go to a church', but Bishop Romney is a powerful cult leader and religious leader who has personally transferred 10s of millions of dollars into the cult, and is it's top public figure at this point.
You hit it right on the head. To put it bluntly, Romney isn't a follower of Baal, he's a high priest of Baal.
Just like secrecy, paranoid thinking is common to pretty much all cult groups. They all want to promote the idea that they are suffering some righteous persecution because someone wants to stamp them out, whether or not that persecution actually exists. It serves to reinforce their narratives, painting them as the “chosen” group that the bad people want to stop from saving the world. After all, Jews and Christians suffered real persecution, which only served to strengthen their faith and create a compelling narrative for their religions. It’s no surprise that cults and con artists would like to counterfeit that in order to try and duplicate those successes.
Even if no persecution or bigotry is going on, they’ll usually try to stir it up or invent it, just like the race hustlers do to prop themselves up. For example, Scientologists perpetually decry as “religious intolerance” anyone that voices opinions that they are a cult, and then teaches their members that these “anti” forces are in league to destroy the humble, oppressed Scientologists. In reality, most of the opposition to Scientology amounts to small groups of ex-members or family members running maybe a couple dozen websites with their own money, while Scientology is an international organization with significant wealth, its own media apparatus, public interest groups, and political lobbying arms. The ones that the cult paints as their oppressors are actually the David, while the cult is the Goliath! This is probably even more true when it comes to LDS and their “persecutors”, since LDS is older, larger, and more influential than L Ron Hubbard’s upstarts.
Yes, even if you ignore some of those facts, and buy into the story that Romney’s defenders trot out, that a “Mormon Bishop” is not very high ranking, and he’s more like a Pastor, it still doesn’t help their argument. Even “just a Pastor” is someone who has studied their religion’s doctrines, and made a fully conscious decision, not just to accept the religion, but to devote their life to promoting it.
Obama at least could claim the “sleeping in church” excuse when Reverend Wright was brought up, even though it was a completely transparent cop-out. Romney can’t plead ignorance to any of the crazy doctrines and teachings of the Mormon church, and his decision to promote them leaves the door wide open to examining these matters in order to assess his judgment.
When Romney became a Bishop, that was the equivalent of a Minister, or Pastor, but Romney eventually became a Stake President which oversees a region of Bishops, that is comparable to a Catholic Bishop's duties, that is why we call him "Bishop".
“This is a political discussion, cowardly hidden in the ‘religion forum’ to avoid free and open debate. “
I’m not sure how that prevents you from freely and openly debating this discussion?
Will you elaborate please?
Yes, I know, but I’m saying, even if what they’re saying was true, it doesn’t help them much, if at all.
The vociferous Mormonophobe Christian Taliban don’t lurk.
They embarass the decent folk on Free Republic and relish doing it
We are grateful for the 52,225 full-time missionaries serving in more than 150 countries.16 The sun never sets on righteous missionaries testifying of the
Savior mormon church. Think of the spiritual power of 52,000 missionaries, endowed with the Spirit of the Lord Joseph Smith, boldly declaring that there is no other name given nor any other way nor means whereby salvation can come
, only in and through the name of Christ. mormon church temple rituals
"My young brethren of the priesthood, I testify of the majesty, but most of all, of the certainty of this magnificent event. The Savior lives. He will return to the earth (the Second Coming) . And whether on this side of the veil or the other, you and I will rejoice in His coming and thank the Lord that He sent us to earth at this time to fulfill our sacred duty of helping prepare the world for
His return the mormon theocracy
."other people, who may not yield full obedience to his laws, nor be fully instructed in his covenants, will, nevertheless, have to yield full obedience to his government. For it will be the reign of God upon the earth, and he will enforce his laws, and command that obedience from the nations of the world which is legitimately his right (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: John Taylor , 225).
Anyone who believes that Romney isn't fully immersed in this doctrine and the Law of Consecration is a fool: The Law of Consecration is considered by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to be a "celestial law." That is, people who are living lives dedicated to the service of God, such that at judgment they would be assigned to the Celestial Kingdom, should be able and expected to live the Law of Consecration. The Law of Consecration is that, if necessary or requested, a person would give everything he has for the building up of the Kingdom of God on Earth. He would be willing to wholeheartedly give of his time, talents, and resources. Thus, the person is "consecrating" all his personal resources to the Lord.
The law of consecration, said Elder Bruce R. McConkie (191585) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, is that we consecrate our time, our talents, and our money and property to the cause of the Church; such are to be available to the extent they are needed to further the Lords interests on earth. Mormon Temple Covenants
So, whine away. The exposure you provide enables us to post more information that many FReepers and lurkers have not seen about the beliefs of mormons, including Romney.
What do you say NavyCanDo?
Yep, you are right.
We are good Christians but we aren’t wackos.
Get off your holier than thou, sanctimonious, selfrighteous high horse.
You are precisely the reason for the First amendment. Your kind was known and feared from our earliest days.
The uninformed, not curious, Anti-Christian,...folks on FR....embarrass the educated, decent, understanding, prudent, Christian folks on Free Republic.
And I don't relish it at all....I just wonder why they/you don't know the Truth.
I see indoctrinated
You see what you want to see...............
not if your very narrow mind is closed
I just discovered i somehow inadvertently stumbled on to a Raligion Thread. I had sworn an oath not to go there.
I will try to stay away from the foul air here in the future
Although I completely understand.....you not understanding.
It's quite common...
Tell us, Bert...was that a religious oath...or are you the "highest power" you know & therefore 'twas only to yourself???
If it was a religious oath, what are you doing make religious oaths out of the religious thread area? (Doncha know ya gotta keep everything hermetically sealed..."religion" goes in the "religion" box -- I don't think even God knows where your boundaries begin and end -- and "politics" goes in the "politics" box...I guess now we know, Bert, why politicals are always immoral...it's people like you that don't know how to integrate their lives...and therefore they compartmentalize everything ... including those who keep faith-based ethics out of politics)
It can get pretty foul at times with posts like 27.
Mormonism has some very raw defenders and promoters when it is challenged by Christians.
“You are precisely the reason for the First amendment. “
When people make statements like that, I wonder if they have ever read the 1st Ammendment...
Just as soon as you pull yourself out of the south end of that north bound horse.
Your attitude and your comments show you are anything but a ‘good Christian’. Good (believing) Christians defend the faith, not encourage heresies.
Your tagline states ‘crucifixion is coming’ and from your posts I’m betting that you cannot wait to crucify us for speaking the truth.
If you don’t know enough about your own faith to defend it, then leave it to those of us who do. The “Flying Inmans” come from all different Christian denominations, no one here is stating that other Christians must believe exactly like us, but there are essential doctrines that Christians must believe to be considered part of the Body of Christ (like the Trinity) and Mormons denounce every single one of those doctrines.
And YOU are the reason the First Amendment was created, not us. Freedom of Religion goes both ways and your attempt to silence us is UNAmerican and makes FR look bad, so get off YOUR holier than thou, sanctimonious, selfrighteous high horse about those who defend the Body of Christ.
I see indoctrinated
The Christians speaking up on Mormonism come from the whole spectrum of Christian churches, who are they all indoctrinated by, indoctrinated in what?
Drinking again, bert?
You really don't mean what's in the Book of Mormon?
Get off your holier than thou, sanctimonious, selfrighteous high horse.
Tsk, tsk. Typical Christian behaviour when definitions and terminology are hijacked to mean something entirely different from what they are supposed to be.
You are precisely the reason for the First amendment. Your kind was known and feared from our earliest days.
Which days? The magic mushroom theology days? The glasslooking fraud days? The bank fraud days in Ohio? The armed battles with the alarmed citizenry in Illinois? The polygamy days? Which days are the ones to whom you refer?
Click on my profile page for more guidelines to the Religion Forum.
Or, if you do not wish to see RF posts, do NOT use the "everything" option on the browse. Instead, browse by "News/Activism." When you log back in, the browse will reset to "everything" - so be sure to set it back to "News/Activism."
mormonism was founded on an anti-Christian, anti-God and anti-Jesus foundation, JS would be proud of you for carrying on the tradition of blasphemy.
Bert, you didn't post much but the little bit you did shows that you have gross misunderstandings about Christianity, Mormonism, and the 1st Amendment. You have some catching up to do.