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A Defense of Monergistic Regeneration
monergism.com ^ | Gannon Murphy

Posted on 04/19/2012 7:20:55 PM PDT by armydoc

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To: ShadowAce
He’s still completely sovereign

I think perhaps you are confused regarding the definition of "sovereignty". Delegation of a decision to your "free will" (if that's your position) contradicts the "complete sovereignty" of God. In that case, you are sovereign regarding the outcome of that decision.
21 posted on 04/20/2012 12:17:04 PM PDT by armydoc
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To: ShadowAce
there was a celebration after it was exercised!

Indeed, brother! You have cause to exalt your most excellent decision!
22 posted on 04/20/2012 12:21:10 PM PDT by armydoc
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To: armydoc
I'm not confused at all.

Christ was both fully human and fully God--another seeming contradiction, but with God, all things are possible.

Don't forget that Christ taught free will through the parable of the Prodigal Son. Free will is assumed and mentioned more times in the Scriptures than not (The whole command to repent is based on the concept of free will). So we must believe that it exists. How we reconcile that with the teachings from Romans about predestination can get quite tricky.

I'm not saying predestination doesn't exist, I'm saying that it doesn't exist in the form that monergists want to say it is.

23 posted on 04/20/2012 12:36:51 PM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: ShadowAce
I think part of the problem is the failure to understand that God, in his absolute sovereignty, ordains both the end and the means to that end. Acts 27 illustrates this nicely:

21The men of the boat had not eaten anything for a long time. Then Paul stood up and said, `Sirs, you should have listened to me and not left Crete. But you did leave. So you have had much trouble and have lost all these things. 22Now I tell you to be glad. Not one of you will die. Only the boat will break and be lost. 23I belong to God and worship him. Last night his angel stood before me. 24He said, "Paul, do not be afraid. You must stand before Caesar. And see, God has given you the lives of all these men who are travelling with you." 25So be glad, sirs. I believe God. It will be just the way he told me. 26However, we will have to go on an island.' 27On the fourteenth night we were being blown across the Adrian Sea. About midnight the boatmen thought that we must be near some land. 28So they tested how deep the water was there. They found that the line went down twenty arm lengths. A little later they tested and found that it was only fifteen arm lengths deep. 29Then they were afraid that we would hit the rocks. There were four heavy iron hooks called anchors. They let them down into the water at the back end of the boat. Then they wished that morning would come. 30The boatmen wanted to get off and leave the boat. They even put down the small boat into the water. They said they were going to put more anchors out from the front of the big boat. 31But Paul said to the officer and soldiers, `If these men do not stay on the boat, you cannot be saved.' 32Then the soldiers cut the ropes holding the small boat and let the water carry it away. 33When it was almost morning, Paul begged them all to eat. He said, `Today is the fourteenth day that you have been watching and have not eaten anything. 34So now, I beg you, eat something. You need it to make you strong so you can save yourselves. Not one of you will lose even one hair from your head.' 35When he had said this, he stood in front of them all. He took some bread and thanked God for it. Then he broke it and began to eat it. 36Then they all were glad and ate some food themselves. 37In all, we were 276 people on the boat. 38They ate all they wanted. Then they threw the grain into the water, so that the boat would not be so heavy. 39In the morning they saw land. But they did not know what country it was. They saw a sandy place. So they talked it over and thought they would try to get the boat on it. 40They cut off the anchors and left them in the water. At the same time, they untied the wood that guided the boat. They put up the big sail to catch the wind and tried to get the boat onto that sandy place. 41But they came to a place where there was sand under the water. The boat stuck in it. The front end stuck so badly that they could not make it go. The back end began to break up because the water beat it so hard. 42The soldiers wanted to kill the prisoners so that none of them would swim to land and run away. 43But the officer wanted to save Paul, so he stopped the soldiers. He told the people, `Those of you who can swim, jump into the water first and get to the land. 44Then the rest of you jump in and go on planks and other pieces of the boat.' So in this way they all got to the land safely.

So God tells Paul that all the men will live. Paul then tells the men that if they leave the boat they will die. Which is it? Both, of course. God ordained the end (the men surviving) and the means (staying on the boat). Why didn't Paul just relax, knowing that everyone was going to survive? Because the ordained means to the end were absolutely necessary. This passage is unusual in that we get to see the end (God's decree) as well as the means. Most of scripture speaks of the means only. Regarding the salvation of any particular individual, we are not privy to God's decree (whether the person is elected for salvation or damnation). That is God's business. What we can be sure of is that the ordained, necessary means to salvation include repentance and faith. Fortunately, these means are ordained to occur in the elect. No "free will" involved. In the end, monergism vs synergism should not have an affect on our day to day behavior. We let God's business be God's business and we concern ourselves with being obedient to scripture. I hang on to monergism because I am convinced that it is scriptural and most fully expresses God's sovereignty and man's pitiful, helpless state. Thanks for the discussion, brother!
24 posted on 04/20/2012 1:29:28 PM PDT by armydoc
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To: armydoc

I know him well. Actually a friend of mine of FB.


25 posted on 04/20/2012 3:55:40 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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