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Bishop to Ad-Libbing Priest: Only appeal Now is to Rome
Belleville News Democrat ^ | 5/25/12 | George Pawlaczyk

Posted on 04/27/2012 8:57:37 AM PDT by marshmallow

BELLEVILLE -- The Rev. Bill Rowe said Wednesday he will not go quietly into forced retirement, even if his only avenue of appeal is to Cardinal Raymond Burke in Rome, who has already told Belleville Bishop Edward Braxton to get rid of the Mount Carmel priest.

"There have been so many people who have supported me and said that what was happening was right, I feel that maybe I have to just let Bishop Braxton complete the course to remove me and say I fought the best fight I could."

Rowe, pastor of St. Mary Parish in Mt. Carmel, drew national attention through his practice of ad libbing parts of the liturgy that are said during the Roman Catholic Mass.

The liturgy was recently revamped to reflect earlier Latin versions, a move by the Vatican that has received criticism from some Catholics. It is supposed to be followed word for word.

Braxton could not be reached. He has a policy of not commenting to local media.

However, during a meeting with Braxton on Tuesday at the Chancery in Belleville, Rowe said he was told that if he didn't go, he would be removed. Straying from the strict wording of the liturgy was only one of the accusations. In an email, Rowe said Braxton also brought up two marriages that Rowe said he officiated over as civil unions, even though the divorced people involved had not received formal annulments from the church.

"The parties got divorced and were going to marry others and they asked me if I would at least do a civil marriage," Rowe said.

"They knew I couldn't do the regular thing, so in both cases the gesture to keep them within the fold of the church was better than forcing them to go somewhere else."

Braxton, according.......

(Excerpt) Read more at bnd.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Worship
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 04/27/2012 8:57:41 AM PDT by marshmallow
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: marshmallow

Keeping “these people in the fold” at all costs to the TRUTH and the SACRAMENTS is getting tiresome.

That excuse is worn worse than a dirty mop, especially for Catholics who respect the narrow road and try their guts out to stay on it, by their behaviour, their practice of the faith and their love for the Commandments and constant self correction.

That BROAD road is a hell of a lot more popular, easier than a feather pillow to navigate and you get your way, but it leads to perdition and the ride is a blast until you arrive.

These priests are unrepentant, ignorant and worship at the feet of their own self will, but lead entire flocks of namby pamby Catholics right along with them. No wonder the Church is in trouble here in the US. These people have had the run of the field now for decades without consequence nor accountability.

I blame the condition of the USA on the condition of the sleeping Church here, who has kept their head down and eyes closed for way too long about way too much, both in government and out.

There are large pockets of socialist Catholics with microphones trying to speak for the Church, confusing the people, both Catholics and non-Catholics, and they have access to power.

END THIS.


3 posted on 04/27/2012 9:17:56 AM PDT by RitaOK (Nevermind, Newt. Forget the convention. I'm trusting God for the rest.)
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To: marshmallow

Looks like Fr. Rowe was crusin’ for a brusin’.

He knew what he was doing, now he’s going to pay for it.

Pity. But he leaned into a right cross(no pun intended).


4 posted on 04/27/2012 9:25:10 AM PDT by RexBeach (Mr. Obama Can't Count.)
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To: stormer

You presume those who protected child rapists and those who would preserve the ancient form of the liturgy are of one party.

More accurately, those who would preserve the liturgy have been outraged at the complete lack of obedience to the Church that has resulted in the church appearing to endorse those who justify the slaughter of killing 50 million babies, and yes, raping children. They have related the desecration of children to the desecration of the mass. They know the Vatican warned against letting homosexuals become priests, and the disobedient American Church allowed them in by the thousands. They have concluded that the best weapon in their arsenal is to insist that those who would represent the Church do so faithfully. They need you to stop making excuses for those who disobey the Church, and belittling their efforts.


5 posted on 04/27/2012 9:27:25 AM PDT by dangus
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To: stormer

They let you stay if you can’t spell too.


6 posted on 04/27/2012 9:28:48 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: dangus; stormer

In fact, I’d bet 5-to-1 that Fr. Bill Rowe is a poofter.


7 posted on 04/27/2012 9:29:22 AM PDT by dangus
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To: stormer
"...but if you do an alter boy..."

The Church doesn't have "alter" boys. It has an alter Christus and altar servers, some of whom are boys.

8 posted on 04/27/2012 9:43:29 AM PDT by Natural Law (The Pearly Gates are really a servants entrance.)
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To: dangus

Some of the idiotic things being said in a petition to retain him:

“a man of God is allowed to use his own words when talking to God”
Yes, but a priest prays the prayers of the entire Church, not his own.

“Certainly a humble people serving/God loving priest.”
Humble enough to replace 2,000 years of tradition and the faithfulness of billions with his own notions?

“The gospel is coming from his heart and lips as the Holy Spirit sees fit. glen”
The Holy Spirit works through a single man, acting in defiance, but not in the prayers of billions of Catholics, or the bishop who has been ordained to act in the Name of the Holy Spirit?

I have witnessed a Baptist minister, forced to conduct a baptism of a prisoner in a prison, where he could not do his Baptist thing. He struggled valiantly to explain the Lord’s Supper, and nearly re-created the entire Catholic Liturgy of the Word. That is the Holy Spirit in action. This is a man who was given the words of the Holy Spirit, through the hands of the Church which Jesus founded, and he has substituted his own wisdom for that of the Church.

>> If he is denounced by the Catholic Church, then he can still teach scripture as he sees fit. You don’t have to do what the system says, just to do what you think is right. <<
Of course, that presumes you don’t believe in the system, which means that if you claim to represent it, as the priest does, you are a fraud and a liar.

>> This is disturbing. What troubles me the most is the negative impact on the children. He is one priest who can communicate so well with our youth. Tying in scripture to something these young kids can understand makes a HUGE impact! That is where the focus of the Catholic Church should be <<

It’s for the chiiiillldrreeeeenn... They just can’t understand morality, if you don’t present it to them through disobedience, arrogance, and anti-authoritarianism!!! God forbid he should actually teach the children the meaning of the mass.


9 posted on 04/27/2012 9:46:15 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus; stormer

dangus, very nice reply. I am greatly encouraged that the hammer is starting to fall here and there on these entirely protestant priests to the accurate teachings and proper prayers of Christ Jesus, ad libbing their homilies.

If this little flock wishes to have a “Power Hour” for the chillllldren and youth, and hear rousing adlib socio-political homilies that amount to another half hour of motivational speaking, there are stops on every corner where that is being done regularly as is the trend.

Let them go be protestant with protestants, but get them out of the Church until they return to the narrow road in repentance and with conviction.

Thanks, dangus.


10 posted on 04/27/2012 10:03:44 AM PDT by RitaOK (Nevermind, Newt. Forget the convention. I'm trusting God for the rest.)
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To: stormer

I hate to say this...but i genuinely laughed out loud at your comment! A horrible truth for sure!


11 posted on 04/27/2012 10:10:25 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: stormer
No, you have that wrong.

Very wrong.

I suspect (though I cannot be sure, as I am not a mind reader) that you know you have it wrong.

So ...

It's a free country.

If you want to keep on getting it wrong, and looking like an idiot ...

That's your business.

Knock yourself out.

12 posted on 04/27/2012 10:15:42 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: dangus
Here's our boy:

I'm placing no bets. At least he's wearing clericals.

13 posted on 04/27/2012 10:22:28 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: stormer
Your use of the word "they" is equivocal, since we're talking about several different "theys". If priests and bishops are doing the right thing, "they" are living according to the precepts of Christ and the laws of the Church. And if not, not.

You want to get this straight? Then how about this: good priests do not violate the sanctity of sex or of the sacraments. If some priest dares to do so, we all rejoice when he gets disciplined, reproved, removed, or prosecuted, as the case may be.

The bishops who apply justice and judgment are the "Catholic faction of the Catholic Church." They deserve respect from the upright, not snickers from the peanut gallery.

14 posted on 04/27/2012 10:51:14 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (The Holy Catholic Church: the more Holy it is, the more Catholic it is.)
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To: stormer

It’s not only some Catholic priests that have abused children. It’s happened in other protestant denominations as well. Look at things a little deeper before you bash a faith.


15 posted on 04/27/2012 10:52:15 AM PDT by bjcoop
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To: RitaOK
ad libbing their homilies

To ad-lib a homily; which is prudential, is acceptable and for most Priests is SOP. To ad-lib the Liturgy of the Word or Liturgy of the Eucharist is a no-no.

ad libitum - Latin for "at one's pleasure"

16 posted on 04/27/2012 11:28:45 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: stormer

Oh get real. There were fewer than 10 complaints in 2010 against priests.

How many against pastors in your religion?


17 posted on 04/27/2012 11:35:01 AM PDT by Not gonna take it anymore (If Obama were twice as smart as he is, he would be a wit)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

Thank you. You are quite correct. I meant to apply the ad-lib to the Liturgy. I see now that I messed up.


18 posted on 04/27/2012 11:35:35 AM PDT by RitaOK (Nevermind, Newt. Forget the convention. I'm trusting God for the rest.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; bjcoop; Not gonna take it anymore

Some people like to engage in intelligent discussion ... even with folks with whom they disagree.

Some people like to throw handfuls of sewage for reasons known only to them.


19 posted on 04/27/2012 11:39:05 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: dangus
You presume those who protected child rapists and those who would preserve the ancient form of the liturgy are of one party.

Might be easier to swallow if you can explain why Cardinal Law now resides at the Vatican...

20 posted on 04/27/2012 12:29:03 PM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: Natural Law
The Church doesn't have "alter" boys. It has an alter Christus and altar servers, some of whom are boys.

I know a number of Catholics who claim they are former altar boys...Are they lying???  

21 posted on 04/27/2012 12:31:22 PM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: dangus
I have witnessed a Baptist minister, forced to conduct a baptism of a prisoner in a prison, where he could not do his Baptist thing. He struggled valiantly to explain the Lord’s Supper, and nearly re-created the entire Catholic Liturgy of the Word. That is the Holy Spirit in action. This is a man who was given the words of the Holy Spirit, through the hands of the Church which Jesus founded, and he has substituted his own wisdom for that of the Church.

Sounds really odd...A Baptist minister can't conduct a baptism without a body of water...It would be unbiblical...

A Baptist minister would have no trouble explaining the Lord's supper which btw has nothing to do with water baptism...

To me, it sounds more like this man actually knows God and has a personal relationship with Him...He's comfortable carrying on a conversation with God instead of just repeating repetitious, meaningless prayers put out world wide by a religion...

22 posted on 04/27/2012 12:45:27 PM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: Iscool; dangus
Iscool, this is a poorly informed argument, since it presupposes as stipulated that Cardinal Law protected child rapists.

Cardinal Law was fully investigated by the state attorney general of Massachusetts and by the district attorneys in ALL FIVE of the counties of the Archdiocese. He gave evidence before two grand juries. The state attorney general, after several years of horrible press and intense scrutiny, concluded that Law had not tried to evade investigation and had not broken any laws.

Upon turning 80 last November, Law became ineligible to participate in any papal conclave or to hold any Curial memberships, and was replaced as archpriest of Sta Maria Maggiore by Archbishop Santos Abril y Castelló

The fact is that, incredible as it may seem, criminal charges have never been lodged against Law, and nobody has requested his extradition. If you've got actionable facts that the prosecutors don't have, why don't you forward it to the prosecutors and make sure charges are pursued? I, for one, am all for the criminal indictiment of anyone, laity or clergy, againt whom there is credible evidence and probable cause.

Then on the basis of successful criminal prosecution, you can talk about ecclesiastical penalties. The fact that the Vatican removed Bernard Law from leadership of a powerful Archdiocese, and put him in charge of managing Sta Maria Maggiore with no pastoral authority, tells you that they followed with exactitude where the evidence led. They concluded that he made serious errors of pastoral judgment, which is quite different from personal moral corruption or crime.

23 posted on 04/27/2012 12:57:11 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Justice and judgment are the foundation of His throne." Psalm 89:14)
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To: Iscool
"I know a number of Catholics who claim they are former altar boys...Are they lying???"

Why would you presume lying as opposed to any other explanation? Prior to 1983 all altar servers were boys and were frequently referred to altar boys (not alter boys).

Canon 230 of the Code of Canon Law promulgated in 1983 allowed local ordinaries to permit girls and women to so function as altar servers. Not all have done so.

24 posted on 04/27/2012 1:06:10 PM PDT by Natural Law (The Pearly Gates are really a servants entrance.)
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To: Iscool

Because you don’t know what you’re talking about, since Cardinal Law does NOT reside in the Vatican. Cardinal Law was found guilty of nothing other than bad management, and was “fired”. For that bad management he was removed from his post. When he was made Cardinal, he was, as all Cardinals are, assigned to be pastor of a nominal parish in Rome, which, in modern times, has virtually no congregation; it is a historical parish only. Being an archbishop, he was replaced de facto by a “parochial vicar” to look after this Roman parish; such a vicar in this case served as little more than a museum curator. When he was relieved of his duties, he defaulted to his other job, that of pastor of the Roman church. It happens to be a splendid-looking church, but not terribly cushy.

Absent heresy or established crime, they basically “threw him upstairs” where His Inadequacy could do no harm. My personal opinion is that Law is a bad man. He cowed to pressure from the national media when they hailed as a hero a man he should have known to defrocked: the subject, in fact, of the “Me and Julio” verse “When the radical preacher come to get me released/ Well we was all on the cover of Newsweek.” (Yes, Me and Julio is about buggery; Mickey Mantle had no idea.)

But there’s no proof that Cardinal Law did anything illegal, as affirmed by five grand juries. Nor did Cardinal Law profess a heresy, or schism, or apostasy. And priests have rights, even bishops whose defense is stupidity.


25 posted on 04/27/2012 1:27:30 PM PDT by dangus
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To: Iscool

>> Sounds really odd...A Baptist minister can’t conduct a baptism without a body of water...It would be unbiblical... <<

Yes, exactly. But the prison had no place fitting to baptize the man. So, filled with the Holy Spirit, the Baptist minister began to defend the validity of this man’s salvation. And because it was the Holy Spirit, he did so not by preaching the heresies of the Baptists, but, to my amazement, preaching the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

And you are right; according to the Baptist Church, the Lord’s Supper has nothing to do with water baptism. But in the Catholic Church, it is the means by which a penitent (one who has received the remission of sins) signifies his belonging to the Church, by willingly sacrificing his own intentions for those of Christ; it is the fulfillment of baptism, the third Rite of Initiation.

Incidentally, I don’t hold that the man was saved through the Grace of the Catholic Church, since the communion was, in fact, invalid, since the minister was not an ordained priest. But I do believe he received the sacrament of desire, which is also salvific, of those who are obstructed from the Catholic Church, making all the more prophetic sounding the minister’s words that “those who are here cannot join the Church which Christ has established by means which create the outward signs we are used to seeing, but just because we can’t see the signs of Christ’s work, doesn’t mean they aren’t there.” (I’m paraphrasing from memory, which is probably influenced by my own Catholic vocabulary.)


26 posted on 04/27/2012 1:37:45 PM PDT by dangus
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To: Iscool

Maybe you can explain why the DA in Boston didn’t seek an indictment of Law?


27 posted on 04/27/2012 1:46:13 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: Iscool

The distinction between altar and alter has flown over that BB rattling around in your grape.


28 posted on 04/27/2012 1:49:34 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Agreed. He’s not a flamer, at least. But then I never perceived Cdl. McCarrick as one until I met him.


29 posted on 04/27/2012 6:03:46 PM PDT by dangus
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To: stormer

**if you don’t do the liturgy word for word, you’re fired; but if you do an alter boy, we’ll just move you to a different church...**

They get sidelined for that too.

Why are you bashing Catholics when most of the pedophilia occurs in Protestant Churches and in schools?


30 posted on 04/27/2012 6:20:21 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: stormer


31 posted on 04/27/2012 6:21:52 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation; stormer
The moral, and even the legal, logic of stormer's position is non-existent. Suppose a corrupt DA looks the other way when his friend commits a murder, and the murderer gets off. Suppose an incompetent DA does a lousy job of investigating and prosecuting a murder, so the murderer (who, in reality, is guilty as sin) is acquitted by a jury.

Do either of those cases mean that a competent DA shouldn't prosecute theft? We'd all agree that theft is a lesser crime than murder, I think. Should the law wink at thieves because some murderers get off without punishment?

32 posted on 04/28/2012 8:23:49 AM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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