Skip to comments.Parents: Donít Delay Baptism for your Infants!
Posted on 04/27/2012 6:36:28 PM PDT by Salvation
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I know your Protestant semi-literate pastor tells you so. But you don't have to stay ignorant. Read the Bible every now and then:
baptism being of the like [water] form, now saveth you also: not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the examination of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 3:21)
You're nailed to something too?
The Church does not teach that he is. St. Augustine taught that such child attains the state of greatest possible natural happiness after death. A baptized child attains beatific vision: a state of supernatural happiness. Does the former sound like hell to you? At any rate, even St. Augustine limbo hypothesis is not a dogmatic teaching of the Catholic Church.
A child needs to be baptized in obedience to the commandment of Christ clearly given in the Bible (Mark 16:16) and out of love for the child whom you want to be near Christ forever, not out of fear of a Calvinist cruel god that only exists in Calvin's sick imagination.
Baptism Saves you. Period, that is exactly what the Bible says.
As far as “offensive generalizations” You might make that exact same comment to the non Catholic I replied to. He goes out of his way to insult Catholics in every thread he can.
You can believe whatever you want, but one who reads the Bible as it is written, and without Protestant obfuscations would see in Noah a figure of Christ, in the ark, a figure of the Catholic Church, and in the flood the baptismal water. You enter the Church through baptism in order to be saved, as St. Peter explains in that verse. "Good conscience" is indeed obtained through baptism, which washes off all preexisting to the baptism sin by the Resurrected Christ.
The Good Thief expressed remorse and received a Baptism of Desire.
Have you ever read about a Baptism of Blood?
A Baptism of Desire?
Most of us are familiar with a Baptism of water and the Holy Spirit.
I grabbed my son out of an oxygen tent when he was a baby, took him to the hospital sink in the room. Turned on the water and baptized him, “I baptize thee in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”
I’ve lived this. It’s not cruel to baptize your own child, is it?
Yes, entire families, including children and babies were baptized. The household of Lydia is one example from St. Paul.
do you remember the definition of Limbo, where babies would go?
It’s not called Limbo any longer, but the unbaptized children are in the presence of God, but in a different place/level than those who were baptized.
“There are many mansions in my Father’s house.”
annalex explains it better here
Taking a baby out of an oxygen tent doesn’t sound like a good idea. The fear that something might happen before the baby was baptized very well could have led to serious complications or death. This might even be regarded as child endangerment under some circumstances, and not without justification.
As I’ve mentioned before, I have family of varying denominational beliefs; some practice infant baptism, some don’t. I cannot imagine any of those who do, snatching a newborn out of what sounds like an ICU for baptism.
It comes across as being rather hysterical and dangerous, quite honestly, right up there with snake handling by holy rollers in some backwoods sect of a church.
I’ve come down on the side of believer’s baptism, personally, and understand that babies and children of believers, prior to their own understanding and ability to accept salvation, are regarded as being of the house of a believer, and therefore not in danger.
I’ve regarded infant baptism up to this point as harmless symbolism demonstrating intent to raise the child in a proper, Christian manner, and so haven’t gotten all that worked up about pro or con.
This gives me serious pause, however. It was a fortunate thing that the baby was not harmed.
My baby was turning blue and still breathing and coughing. I didn’t take the kind of chance you are speaking of. The nurses were right into the room to get him back into the oxygen tent and show me why he needed surgery since he had inhaled an object.
I’m sorry, but a baby taken out of an oxygen tent turning blue and coughing, with nurses then rushing into the room to put the baby back into the oxygen tent, sounds as if a very grave chance was taken.
Thank-you for your response!
Also a number of parishes do have, besides RCIA, RCIC, for children and young people between the ages of 8 and 16 who were not baptized or were baptized but who have not made first holy communion.
If Salvation says there was minimal risk then the discussion is pretty much over. You were not there, she was, she said the nurses were there.
This is the part where you take a step back and say: You are correct I over stepped my bounds since I was not there."
Go ahead try it, I am certain it won't hurt anything more than your pride.
The action sounded very ill advised as described and sounded worse upon elaboration. I’ve nothing for which to apologize.
Were you there? Than you don't know Jack, and it typical liberal prot fashion shooting your mouth off. Why didn't you just say that she was acting stupidly? That way you would remove all doubt as to your hero and motive.
Please try to maintain decorum, Verga. You’re on the religion forum.
It is a very dangerous thing to try to establish a general rule from an exception, particularly since you are not a thief dying on a cross next to Jesus.--lightman
It is particularly dangerous to say that baptism is not necessary for salvation based upon the example of the Good Thief who died before Christ gave the commandment to be baptized. It is traditionally held that baptism did not become instituted as a binding sacrament until after the Resurrection when Christ gave the Great Commission, commanding the apostles to go forth baptizing all nations in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. (Matt 28:18-20) Before that time, baptism does not appear to have been required for salvation. Thus the commandment to receive baptism would not apply to those (like the Good Thief) who died before the commandment was given to baptize.
It is true that baptism was performed as a rite by John the Baptist, but it wasn't necessarily a Sacrament at that time. This is one of the reasons that those who had received the Baptism of John had to be "re-baptized" in Acts 19 which reads:
3And he [Paul] said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
The above passage indicates that the baptism of Repentance by John the Baptist wasn't enough to be a Sacramental baptism, and those who had received it had to be rebaptized under the rules that Jesus set out at the Great Commission (i.e. they had to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.)
Also, if baptism wasn't a Sacrament until the Great Commission, it would explain, why the spirits of the righteous who lived before baptism was commanded were able to be allowed into Heaven, when Christ came to preach to "the Spirits in prison" after he died on the Cross. (I Peter 3:19-21)
In short, baptism is a binding commandment upon those who have lived after the Great Commission was given. Those who are able to receive it must do so because Christ has commanded it. Those who intentionally neglect receiving it disobey a direct command from God and thus put their souls in grave danger.
I will try, but the last thread this came up I got called a monster. Original sin is not something many want to think about. Which may explain the luke warm prolife efforts of many.
Actually, this is a common misunderstanding that has circulated since the International Theological Commission (ITC) released its report on Limbo a few years ago. The Church's ITC did not say that Limbo exists neither did it say that Limbo does not exist. In fact, the Theological Commission didn't change any of the Church's teaching on Limbo. The Commission simply said that it hopes that unbaptized children will be saved, not that they are saved.
Also, an important thing to note is that Limbo is not a lower level of Heaven, it is actually the outermost edge of Hell. According to the Theologians, those who go to Limbo are deprived of the Beatific Vision of God (a supernatural happiness), but because they have no actual sin, they can still enjoy a perfect natural happiness.
The theory of Limbo is actually one of the best possible Catholic Theological outcomes for the fate of unbaptized infants, because the Ecumenical Council of Florence appears to dogmatically (i.e. infallibly) define that even those who die with the stain of original sin alone go immediately to hell. The decree is very stern and solemnly worded. It reads:
We also define...Also, the souls of those who have incurred no stain of sin whatsoever after baptism, as well as souls who after incurring the stain of sin have been cleansed whether in their bodies or outside their bodies, as was stated above, are straightaway received into heaven and clearly behold the triune God as he is, yet one person more perfectly than another according to the difference of their merits. But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal penalties.
This decree makes the plight of the unbaptized sound very serious. The serious tone of the decree is further compounded by another part of the decree of this council which goes on to warn parents against putting off baptism too long, warning the parents of the danger that the child is in while yet unbaptized. This other part of the decree declares:
With regard to children, since the danger of death is often present and the only remedy available to them is the sacrament of baptism by which they are snatched away from the dominion of the devil and adopted as children of God, it admonishes that sacred baptism is not to be deferred for forty or eighty days or any other period of time in accordance with the usage of some people, but it should be conferred as soon as it conveniently can; and if there is imminent danger of death, the child should be baptized straightaway without any delay, even by a lay man or a woman in the form of the church, if there is no priest, as is contained more fully in the decree on the Armenians.
All of the teachings of the Scriptures on this matter are very grave sounding so, it is best not to take chances and get children baptized as soon as possible. Nevertheless, if a child is not baptized it is God who decides that persons ultimate fate and we can hope in His wisdom and mercy.
Repent and be baptized. In that order.
When this was first brought up a couple thousand years ago Anabaptists were killed by the thousands for disagreeing.
Are you sure you are referring to the Anabaptists? They were a 16th century movement suppressed by both Protestants and Catholics for, among other things, rebaptizing converts.
Providing some fearmongering, eh??? To keep the gullible parents in bondage to the Catholic religion...
The young children will then go straight into the arms of Jesus...
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Where the is no faith and no Law, conscience is the factor in judgment..
.Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
This is where young children and babies fall into the mix...They don't have the capacity for the knowledge of saving faith nor do know and understand God's Law...They will be judged on their conscience...
Try that on a baby...
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That's not what the verse says...That may work when other Catholics are told what the scriptures say and you guys know they won't check you out...But it won't work with people who read the scriptures...
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And this says the opposite of what you claim...
No there is not...There is no imparting of the Holy Spirit without repentance...You guys just make this stuff up...
The child is then annointed with the Chrism of Salvation used in only three sacraments -- Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Orders That mark of Baptism and the Father, Son and Holy Spirit will be with the child forever.
That's why we as Catholics can say to anyone who was baptized in the Catholic Church that they are still a Catholic. The Holy Spirit is still there, perhaps the person has rejected the Catholic faith momentarily, but they will be back. One flock and one shepard.
You also talked about repentance. The godparents and parents announce for the child that they reject Satan and believe in the precepts stated in the Nicene Creed.
V. Do you reject Satan?
R. I do.
V. And all his works?
R. I do.
V. And all his empty promises?
R. I do.
V. Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth?
R. I do.
V. Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?
R. I do.
Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?
R. I do.
V. God, the all-powerful Father of our Lord Jesus Christ has given us a new birth by water and the Holy Spirit, and forgiven all our sins. May he also keep us faithful to our Lord Jesus Christ for ever and ever.
I really wish that prots would start reading the Bible, even once in a while would help them.
Shirley you jest...
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Sorry, but this baptism is the answer of a good conscience...It is something a Christian does in his mind...Has nothing with someone else sprinkling water on him...
The baptism that now saves us has nothing to do with water...
And you are claiming to be a Christian, now how about admitting your error?
BTW waht ever hapend to the plain things are the main things.
In a real version of the Bible it sauys "Baptism now saves you"
There is no error on my part to admit, Verga. The action as described was dangerous and not one to be encouraged. Just one infant death under such a questionable and unnecessary circumstance would reflect badly upon all Christianity, not just your or anyone else’s particular denomination.
And I agree with that 100 percent...However, there is no water in THAT baptism...
Baptism does not mean water and water does not mean baptism...Look it up if you don't believe me...
And yet the Bible tells us about the Ethiopian to whom Philip explained Isaiah.
The Ethiopian saays something like “There is some water, why can’t I be baptized right now.”
So in the book of Acts water was used.
“The Church and parents deny a child the priceless grace of becoming a child of God were they not to confer baptism shortly after birth. “
Utterly wrong. Where do people come up with this stuff?
"... every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins" (Acts 2:38). What sin is the baby supposed to be repenting of?
All Who Believe and Are Baptized
By: Thomas H. Kingo
All who believe and are baptized
Shall see the Lords salvation;
Baptized into the death of Christ,
They are anew creation;
Through Christs redemption they will stand
Among the glorious heavenly band
Of every tribe and nation.
With one accord, O God, we pray,
Grant us your Holy Spirit;
Help us in our infirmity
Through Jesus blood and merit;
Grant us to grow in grace each day
By holy Baptism that we may Eternal life inherit.
Hymn # 225 from Lutheran Worship
Author: Etlich Christlich Iider
Tune: Es Ist Das Heil
1st Published in: 1689
The inherited sin of Adam, as declared by David "indeed, I have been wicked from my birth, a sinner from my mother's womb." (Psalm 51:6).
There are few creatures more egocentric than a human infant. They quickly learn that the world revolves around their every cry.
U’ve sourced my material. What is your source. Paul baptizes entire households. Do you think infants were also baptized?
Of course they were.
Straight from the Bible.
The Bible says nothing about an infant needing infant baptism to be a child of God.
An infant is incapable of making any decisions for itself.
Infant baptism has no bearing on an infants salvation.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion in these United States of America. There are others who believe very differently: http://thedaughterofzion.wordpress.com/tag/john-wilde-webber/
Their trust will be either verified or proven wrong in eternity.
On the other had, on a completely objective level we have this:
Several things can be affirmed from the Holy Scriptures:
1) All are born into sin and are condemned already. (John 3:18, 36, and others)
2) The eternal Son of God came into the world to save sinners, because God loved them despite their sin. (John 3:16, and others)
2) Faith in Jesus Christ the Savior saves. (the same John 3:18, 36, and many others)
3) Baptism is commanded by God for all. (Matthew 28:18ff and Mark 16:16, and others)
4) Faith is not the act of man but the gift of God. (Ephesians 2:8-9, and others)
5) Ergo baptism and faith must somehow be connected in the mind and will of God, otherwise God contradicts Himself in His word.
nonsense...read the book...rules are meant to be obeyed. The trouble with protestants is that they like to do things however they feel like it
WRONG there are zillions of babies in heaven because they were baptized....can't you read???I agree that there are none in hell, but that would imply unjust punishment which God does not do.
oh, please...rules don't matter,??? Christ established a religion for a purpose...you don't get to make up the instruction book as you go along.
Jesus delayed His until He was thirty. Adult believers were baptized after their confession of belief.
first of all, you don't know that...second, and most important, Christ was GOD and He sets the rules, He might even stray from them once in a while like he did for Lazarus.
nonsense, baptism is clearly ordered in the bible. Your tagline explains a lot of what you don't understand.