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Essays for Lent/Easter: Seventh Day Adventists
StayCatholic.com ^ | 2005 | Sebastian R. Fama

Posted on 04/27/2012 7:54:51 PM PDT by Salvation

 

Seventh Day Adventists

by Sebastian R. Fama

The main difference between Seventh Day Adventists and other Protestants is their adherence to Sabbath worship. They reason that since Exodus 20:19 establishes Saturday as the Jewish Sabbath, Christians ought to worship on Saturday. They rightfully claim that the Catholic Church changed the day of worship from the Sabbath (Saturday) to the Lord’s Day (Sunday). However, they wrongfully claim that such an act was illicit.

Scripture speaks of an Old Covenant and a New Covenant. The Old Covenant was in effect until the coming of the Messiah [Jesus]. Once Jesus came He established a New Covenant. In Matthew 16:19 Jesus gives Peter the power to legislate in Church matters: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Under the New Covenant many things would change. For example, baptism would replace circumcision (Colossians 2:11-12), divorce would no longer be permitted (Mark 10:2-12), and animals would no longer need to be sacrificed (Hebrews 9:1-14). The day of worship would also change.

At first, the main day of worship for Christians was on Saturday. That’s because the first Christians were Jews. At some point the Christians were expelled from the temple because they were seen as being divisive. Consequently, they began to meet in their homes. Eventually Church leaders decided that Sunday would be the Christian day of worship in honor of our Lord’s resurrection.

While the New Testament doesn’t explicitly command Christians to worship on Sunday, it seems to indicate that such was the practice. For instance, in Acts 20:7 we see that the early Christians gathered together to break bread on Sunday. "On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them…"The term "to break bread" refers to the Eucharistic celebration. In 1 Corinthians 16:2 we read: "On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that contributions need not be made when I come."

One thing the New Testament is clear on is that Christians are not to be judged for not observing the Jewish Sabbaths and feast days. "…having canceled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross… Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath." (Colossians 2:14-16).

Paul actually considers adherence to the Jewish days of observance as possible evidence that the Galatians have strayed from the faith. He writes: "but now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and beggarly elemental spirits, whose slaves you want to be once more? You observe days, and months, and seasons, and years! I am afraid I have labored over you in vain" (Galatians 4:9-11). Paul says this because Christians are no longer bound by the Jewish ceremonial law (Romans 6:14).

There are many early Church writings that confirm Sunday as the Christian day of worship. Two are notable because of their early date. The first quote comes from "The Didache." It reads in part: "But every Lord's day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned" (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).

The second was written by Ignatius of Antioch who was a contemporary of the apostles. He wrote: "[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e., Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's day…" (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).

Another belief that separates Seventh Day Adventists from other Protestants is their view of the afterlife. They believe that upon death we go into an unconscious sleep. At the final judgment we will all be resurrected. The just will go off to eternal life with God. Those consigned to hell will burn until they die. At this point they will cease to exist. Adventists believe that the fires of hell are eternal. However, they don’t believe that the punishments received there are eternal. To support their claims they will appeal to various Old Testament verses. For instance:

I said in my heart with regard to the sons of men that God is testing them to show them that they are but beasts. For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts; for all is vanity. All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down to the earth (Ecclesiastes 3:18-21)?

For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward; but the memory of them is lost… Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10).

All of the ideas expressed in Ecclesiastes are not necessarily God’s. Even the verse used in chapter three to promote the Adventist view begins with the author saying: "I said in my heart." Elsewhere in Ecclesiastes, Solomon acknowledges that God has a plan but that he doesn’t know what it is. Consider the following:

He has made everything beautiful in its time; also he has put eternity into man's mind, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end (Ecclesiastes 3:11).

The purpose of the book of Ecclesiastes is not to reveal the mind of God but to show us that human or earthly solutions are inadequate. For Solomon the obvious answer to all of our perplexing problems is God. The book of Ecclesiastes anticipates the coming of the Messiah. The lesson for Christians is that one should rely on Christ rather than self.

Many of the things that were not so clear in the Old Testament become clear in the New. The Bible itself tells us this: "…and now has manifested through the appearing of our savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel" (2 Timothy 1:10). And what does the Gospel say about the nature of hell? Matthew 25:46 says: "And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." If the damned cease to exist the punishment wouldn’t be eternal. Incidentally, if the occupants of hell are not eternal why would the fires of hell be? Once everyone who was destined to go there went off into non existence the flames would no longer be needed. The fact that the fires of hell are eternal indicates that the punishments received there are eternal.

That there might be no doubt as to the true nature of hell; Peter borrows a word from Greek mythology to describe it. In 2 Peter 2:4 the word rendered as hell is Tartarus (Τrτarος). Tartarus, by definition, is a place of eternal torment.

The early Church had no problem understanding the nature of hell. Justin Martyr wrote: "No more is it possible for the evildoer, the avaricious, and the treacherous to hide from God than it is for the virtuous. Every man will receive the eternal punishment or reward which his actions deserve. Indeed, if all men recognized this, no one would choose evil even for a short time, knowing that he would incur the eternal sentence of fire." (First Apology 12 [A.D. 151]).

Luke 16:19-31 addresses the Adventist claim that the dead are unconscious in the grave until the second coming. In verse 22 both men die. In verse 23 we see that Lazarus is conscious and in heaven. We also see that the rich man is conscious and in hell.

A close examination of all the evidence concerning these two issues shows that the Church has been right all along.

Copyright © 2005 StayCatholic.com



TOPICS: Catholic; Other Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: adventists; catholic
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For Further Study

The Early Church Fathers on Sabbath or Sunday  (Free)
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Seventh-day Adventist to Roman Catholic


1 posted on 04/27/2012 7:54:56 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; marshmallow; ...

Essays Ping!


2 posted on 04/27/2012 7:58:23 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: All
Essays for Lent/Easter: Seventh Day Adventists
Essays for Lent/Easter: Jehovah's Witnesses
Essays for Lent/Easter: The Word of Faith Movement
Essays for Lent/Easter: Salvation Outside the Church?
Essays for Lent/Easter: The Words of Consecration
Essays for Lent/Easter: Traditionalists [Catholic Caucus]
Essays for Lent/Easter: Women's Ordination
Essays for Lent/Easter: Abortion
Essays for Lent/Easter: Annulment

Essays for Lent/Easter: Divorce and Remarriage
Essays for Lent: Marriage
Essays for Lent: Natural Family Planning
Essays for Lent: Contraception
Essays for Lent: Abstinence
Essays for Lent: The Rapture
Essays for Lent: Call No Man Father
Essays for Lent: Scapulars Medals and Relics
Essays for Lent: Statues and Holy Pictures
Essays for Lent: The Rosary

Essays for Lent: The Assumption
Essays for Lent: The Immaculate Conception
Essays for Lent: Mary Ever-Virgin
Essays for Lent: Praying to Saints
Essays for Lent: Indulgences
Essays for Lent: Purgatory
Essays for Lent: Confession
Essays for Lent: The Eucharist
Essays for Lent: The Mass
Essays for Lent: Baptism

Essays for Lent: Justification
Essays for Lent: Tradition
Essays for Lent: Scripture Alone
Essays for Lent: The Canon of Scripture
Essays for Lent: Papal Infallibility
Essays for Lent: The Pope
Essays for Lent: The Church
Essays for Lent: The Bible
Essays for Lent: The Trinity
Essays for Lent: Creationism or Evolution?

3 posted on 04/27/2012 8:00:02 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
These guys are much more interesting for their diets. One group eats a half a cup of nuts a day ~ all their lives ~ and they have NO cardiovascular problems of any kind (or so it's reported in a number of medical studies).

I have no idea how they arrived at the "Nut Thing" ~ but more recently Olive Oil has been demonstrated to have similar effects, and I'm aware of some Adventist literature about olives that's been out there for decades.

There's a possibility that they came up with the ascetic lifestyles by focusing on restrictive diets ~ and those two items, in turn, led them to an exceedingly legalistic theological point of view.

That would put them in the same class as the founders of Jainism and Buddhism in India back 3 millenia ago.

That also takes them right out of the current Protestant "pale of orthodoxy" ~ not sure if it takes them out of Christianity completely but it's something to think about.

4 posted on 04/27/2012 8:11:50 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

I wasn’t aware of the dietary things. Thanks. Very interesting.


5 posted on 04/27/2012 8:17:02 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/seventh-day-adventism

This is the website for Catholic Answers & a description of Seventh Day Adventists & in particular what they think of the Catholic Church. Catholic answers has it in the form of a ‘tract’ for Catholics.

The Catholic Church as the body of Jesus Christ has Love for >everyone. Unfortunately, it is not returned by >everyone.

I had a dentist that was an Adventist. He didn’t practice his religion very faithfully & got >very fat. He went on the Adventist veggie-burger diet & slimmed right down to a healthy weight.


6 posted on 04/27/2012 8:18:48 PM PDT by gghd (A Pro-life Palinista & a member of the NRA)
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To: muawiyah
"led them to an exceedingly legalistic theological point of view."

Is anyone . . I mean anyone more legalistic than Catholics?

7 posted on 04/27/2012 8:26:38 PM PDT by BipolarBob ("Oh no, I'm not sick, well I'm not physically sick anyway. Mentally I'm sick beyond any doctor's abi)
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To: BipolarBob

The quick answer is >NO.

Legalism is a term by many Christians use as a ‘pejorative’ term if they don’t like what is in the Bible.

Some of the Jews in the Old Testament-times thought salvation was through a >legalistic approach to obedience to the Law of the Old Testament. In the New Testament, Jews, such as Jesus Christ & the Jews that were his Disciples, tell us that such a >legalistic approach is not the way to to Heaven.

Sometimes if a Christian quotes a Biblical prohibition against an activity, someone will cry out ‘that’s legalistic’ and use the term pejoratively. The reason being >they don’t WANT to obey God.

An example of this being done today is when Christians say: Homosexual activity is prohibited by the Bible, & willful with full knowledge, = homosexual >activity can keep someone from Heaven. People that advocate homosexual activity condemn Christians for having a ‘legalistic’ view of salvation.

Above is written by me^
_________________________
Below is from a book I have but put in my >own words mostly.

Jesus Christ pointed out that a ‘legalistic’ view of salvation was incorrect. BUT, Jesus Christ did NOT do away with = The Eternal Law of God.
Today we have laws that are accepted as valid by Christians.
A. Divine Positive Law = from God which we have explained by Holy Mother our Catholic Church.
B. Natural Moral Law = which also comes from God & it is placed in the conscience & also revealed by the world itself. The first few chapters of the book of Romans speaks about the world itself revealing the Natural Moral Law from God.
C. Human positive law.
A. Civil laws = secular laws (which are only valid before
God if the secular laws conform to God’s laws.
B. Ecclesiastical laws. These are the canon laws of
the Church to help all Christians understand their
rights & obligations.

Obviously, I didn’t know all this myself. (I’m not a Priest) But I sort of took out of Fathers Trigilio & Brighenti book “Catholicism for Dummies.” ANY MISTAKES HERE ARE MINE & NOT THE PRIESTS.

(I understand a NON-Christian was writing about Catholicism on Wikipedia for the longest period of time using this book. He was eventually discovered.)


8 posted on 04/27/2012 9:24:36 PM PDT by gghd (A Pro-life Palinista & a member of the NRA)
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To: BipolarBob

Legalistic is a word that is defined differently by various people. I hope that was clear in my comment.

The Catholic Church still recognizes that ALL >valid laws still must conform to God’s laws.

All the people in the world are required to obey the Natural Moral Law. This is were conflict seems to apply & the term ‘legalistic’ gets used pejoratively.

The observation about Adventist & their diet seems like an observation about their beliefs. I do >NOT consider it a >pejorative use of the term.

There are Priests that read these threads; hopefully a Priest will point out the correct Catholic teaching.


9 posted on 04/27/2012 9:37:24 PM PDT by gghd (A Pro-life Palinista & a member of the NRA)
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To: Salvation

And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. Mark 7:7

How can Catholics pray to Mary and a plethora of other ‘ saints’ and ignore that there is only one mediator between God and man, which is Christ?

For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 1 Timothy 2:5 - this verse is why I am an ex-catholic...

Jesus said no one jot or tittle would pass from the law, and yet Catholics still practice idolatry, ignoring the Second Commandment of the Decalogue...

For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:18

Furthermore, the Sabbath is a perpetual covenant instituted by God and will still be kept in heaven.. eternally....

“For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.
Isaiah 66:22-23

Exodus 31:13
“Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.
Ezekiel 20:12
Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.
Ezekiel 20:20
hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.’

As a former Roman Catholic, it is quite evident that the Catholic religion is a populist religion based on traditions of men and set forth by the bishops of Rome, that ignores the pure teaching of the Bible and replaces the study of God’s word with liturgies and catechism, which offers erring fundamentals concepts regarding the “ faith once delivered to the saints”...

It is purely based on Romish fundamental beliefs, contrary to the Word of God...

Many Roman Catholic core beliefs, have no basis on the Bible whatsoever...

Only recently are Masses given in languages other than Latin... Also, studying the Bible is now allowed, because the present information society is no longer as gullable as in the Dark Ages... During the Catholic Inquisition, you could be burned at the stake for possessing a Bible by the very bishops of Rome.

Roman Catholic apologetics, such as this are seriously flawed and easily disproven by any self- respecting Bible student of any Protestant faith...

Isaiah 40:8
The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”

John 8:32
You shall know the Truth and the Truth, shall set you free” ... Like it did me...


10 posted on 04/27/2012 10:13:04 PM PDT by hope_dies_last
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To: Salvation

Lent is past and Easter has come and gone this year...


11 posted on 04/27/2012 10:16:35 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: Salvation

Sabbath or Sunday?

Did you know what day will be observed in the New Heavens and the New Earth?

Isaiah 66:22-23 reads, “For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain v.23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.”

In fact, the Sabbath was not only instituted as a memorial of Creation from the beginning, but also to remind you that you are a created being, which of course bears the need for us to accept God’s Word at face value—that God created the Heaven’s and the Earth in a literal week of Creation. God spoke the Heaven’s and the Earth into existence in six days, then rested on the seventh day or Sabbath.

And if the memoir of Creation weren’t enough, where God instituted a day of rest for Adam and his descendants to rest from their labors and have fellowship with their Creator, God also repeated the Sabbath as a commandment on Mt. Sinai and then reemphasized it numerous times in the book of Deuteronomy, which literally means “second law” or the restating of the first, as a reminder of Israel’s deliverance from the slavery of Egypt.

In essence, the Sabbath is more than just a memorial of Creation, it also a symbol of deliverance from the “slavery” of sin. Furthermore, it is a symbol of Grace and the redemptive work of Christ himself.

When we accept God’s plan of redemption through faith in Jesus, we enter His “rest”. This is the true rest the Sabbath is pointing us to. Christ himself said, “Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.” Matthew 11:28-29. Please note the two operative words in this passage, “all ye who labour” and “rest”. Ultimately the “rest” spoken of here, is the “rest for your souls” and freedom for our weary souls from the bondage of slavery—or slavery to sin and its ultimate consequence, death.

Egypt symbolically represents sin, the world and ultimately death. We are born into slavery unto this world. As David the psalmist stated in Psalm 51:5, “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me”. We are “conceived in sin” and we are born unto this world as members of the fallen race under Adam’s curse. God’s redemptive work in Christ represents freedom from sin and death, so Christ is our true “Sabbath” or “rest” under the covenant of His “Grace” which we enter through faith.

This is not to say, as some would like us to believe that under the freedom of God’s grace, that we are loosed from observance of the Sabbath. There are many passages that point to the Sabbath or Seventh Day as a “perpetual” covenant, Exodus 31:16. Quite on the contrary, the redemptive work of Christ, and the “rest” that we gain from it are all the more reason for us to want to fully comprehend and appreciate God’s gift of the Sabbath. Both Christ and the Sabbath are God’s gifts to man. Christ himself again said, “the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath” Mark 2:27 and again Jesus said in Luke 6:25, “That the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath”.

Another interesting parallel, is that both Christ and the Sabbath were rejected by men. Jesus came to His own, and “His own did not receive Him” John 1:11. In the same manner, Sabbath observance is not considered as a current mandate in mainstream Christianity. Rather the Fourth Commandment is arbitrarily singled out and rejected; while on the other hand, the other nine commandments, it is said, still need to be observed.

There are many parallels between Christ and the Sabbath and there is one more that needs to be considered. When Christ was crucified, He was hung between two thieves, Matthew 27:38; one robber on the left, who despised Christ and mocked him; and one on the right, who pleaded for His remembrance of him in His Kingdom. You might ask yourself at this point what does this have to do with the Sabbath? The point is the following; what two other “holy days” exist in two major monotheistic religions in the world? The fact is that there is but two other major weekly holy days. Friday is a high holy day for Muslims and as is Sunday for mainstream Christianity, which includes Catholics and major Protestant denominations. It would be well to afford oneself the opportunity to consider that indeed the Sabbath or Saturday falls between two false—one mock and one substituted worship day, not as prescribed by Jehovah, but by the traditions of men. If you look at these days on a calendar in a linear fashion, Friday falls on the left of Saturday and Sunday on the right. Think about it just for a moment, and you can draw your own conclusion...

Now going back to our thieves on the cross, the robber on the left rejected Christ. Muslims reject Christ as their Messiah and the Quran speaks of an “al-Mahdi” who will grant Islam world domination over other religions. In contrast, the thief on the right accepted Christ, and Jesus assured him at that hour, the gift of His Salvation. Mainstream Christianity accepts the view that the thief on the right side of Jesus was saved, as is anyone who accepts Christ by faith. Please bear in mind, Sabbath observance is not a requisite for Salvation; rather it is our goal and destiny to enter God’s true “rest” under His Grace, through faith in Jesus. The fact that Christians were saved throughout history by professing faith in Jesus, whether they observed the Sabbath or worshiped God on Sunday, does not make void God’s institution of the perpetual covenant of the Sabbath, Exodus 31:16; Leviticus 16:31.

The Lord, in one of His discourses also noted that not one “jot or tittle would in no way pass from the law”, even more so, one could easily speculate the unlikelihood of the Lord voiding the entire 4th Commandment to “remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy”. The Lord said elsewhere, “That the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.” Matthew 12:8, and then; “And he said unto them, And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.” Luke 16:17

Would the Lord do away with such an important memorial and most enduring monument of His work, the work of Creation and the work of Redemption? Hardly so, as both Creation and the redemptive work of Christ are to be perpetually commemorated through the Sabbath. This conmemoration is stressed after God inscribed the Ten Commandments with His finger, on stone, Exodus 31:18.

The Fourth Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath Day... is the only commandment that is prophetic and begins with “remember”. In His foreknowledge, God foresaw the present-day foresaking, by His people, of the Seventh-Day Sabbath, except for a “Remnant”, Revelation 14:12

Another point is that there is not even an astrological reason for the enduring existence of the 7-day week. For example, consider the following:

- The 24-hour day is comprised of the rotation of the Earth on its own axis

- The 30-day monthly cycle is comprised of the moon’s rotation around the Earth

- The 365-day yearly cycle is comprised of the Earth’s rotation around the Sun.

So why the 7-day week? The answer is this, that God himself perpetually instituted it at Creation.

Now let’s summarize the important points in relation to true Sabbath observance:

Creation– God’s purpose is to remind you on a weekly basis, since the Garden of Eden, that you are a created being. – Genesis 2:2-3

Freedom from slavery – Through faith in Jesus, God has freed and delivered you from sin and death, just like He freed Israel from slavery in Egypt which was a precursor of grander things to come, namely the redemptive work of Christ. “And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and [that] the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the Sabbath day”. Deutoronomy 5:15

Christ represents our true Sabbath – “Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.” Matthew 11:28-29. And Christ is not a “fulfillment” as in the doing away of the former Sabbath, but is as the rising “Sun of Righteousness”, Malachi 4:2; that reaches its full shine or full measure at noon; so is the “fulfillment” of God’s Plan of Salvation through His Son, Jesus Christ, revealed through the exact fulfilling of His Word.

Our conclusion is this:

“There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience”. Hebrews 4:9-11. This interesting passage begins with “there remains”, hmm… Remember the “remember” in the Fourth Commandment, Exodus 20:8; to keep the Sabbath Day holy? You may now be asking, how can you bridge “there remains” in Hebrews with “remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy”, right? Hold on; let’s look more carefully at the fact that Hebrews 4:9-11 begins with the words, “there remains”. This means that something big has taken place and that after the fact, “there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God”.

The event that took place, dear friend, was the Crucixion, Burial and Resurrection of Christ... Jesus, The “Lamb of God”, slain from the “Foundation of the World”, was led to the Cross of Calvary, “as a sheep led to the slaughter” “. The Foundation of the World” spoken of here is none other than “Creation”. Evidently, this is reaffirming our belief that since Creation, God’s redemptive work has been unfolding. God is extending His Grace to us, His Creation, until the appointed time when His perfect work will be restored.

“Remember” what took place at the end of that first week of Creation? “...and on the Seventh Day God RESTED”. God’s emblem of the Plan of Salvation, or the “Sabbath” had been set as the “cornerstone” of God’s continuing labour of LOVE. Christ declared himself to be the “Rock of Salvation”, spoken of in Psalms 89:26 & 95:1; upon which He would build his Church, Matthew 16:18. This “Rock” had been founded at Creation when God instituted the Sabbath, even before Adam sinned and God declared the “enmity between the seed of Eve and the seed of the serpent” Genesis 3:15, which is actually the second reference to the Cross after God instituted the Sabbath, which was the first inference to Calvary.

Lastly, may we please note that after His burial, Christ “rested” in the tomb; after having been buried on the eve of the Sabbath and then rising to a Glorious Resurection on Sunday. Even at this momentous consummation of God’s redemption of humanity, where Jesus experienced the second death on behalf of His redeemed, Christ rested on the Sabbath in the Tomb.

And furthermore, found in the last book of the Bible is this very candid declaration: “Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.” Revelation 14:12

Worship Him, “Who made the Heavens and Earth” (Revelation 14:7) “…in Spirit and in Truth”…(John 4:24)


12 posted on 04/27/2012 10:19:00 PM PDT by hope_dies_last
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To: hope_dies_last
Photobucket

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13 posted on 04/27/2012 11:54:43 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: hope_dies_last

21. Why do we worship on Sunday?

21. Why do we worship on Sunday?

Chris: John, the Catholic Church has defied God’s commandment to keep holy the Sabbath by worshiping on Sunday. This was an evil invention of Constantine in the fourth century to copy the worship of the pagans. The Bible teaches us that we must worship God on Saturday, not Sunday. You are promoting lies.

J.Salza: Chris, first, the requirement to worship on Saturday was a law of the Old Covenant. The New Covenant has abolished the Old Covenant including all of its moral, ceremonial and judicial laws. See 2Cor 3:14; Heb 7:12,18; 8:7,13; 9:15; 10:9. So the worship laws of the Old Covenant no longer apply (unless you claim they do because you are a Jew and not a Christian).

Second, Scripture teaches that God revealed to the apostles to change the principal day of worshiping God from Saturday to Sunday (hence, it is not a Catholic invention in the fourth century; it is a commandment of God revealed in Scripture and given by God to the Church). For example, in reference to the “day of rest,” St. Paul writes to the Hebrews that “if Jesus had given them rest, he would never have afterwards spoken of another day” (Heb 4:8). That is, St. Paul reveals that Jesus spoke to His apostles of another day of rest, which is Sunday. Paul confirms in the next verse that “There remaineth therefore a day of rest for the people of God” (v.9). The “people of God” are the Church, the Christians of the New Covenant, not the Jews of the Old Covenant. This “day of rest” is the “another day” of verse 8, which reveals that the Old Testament day of worship was changed; it is no longer Saturday.

The Scriptures reveal that this “day of rest” is the first day of the week for Christians, or Sunday. For example, see Acts 20:7 which reveals that the apostles gathered on Sunday as the principal day of worship. In 1Cor 16:2, Paul instructions the Church to make contributions to the churches “on the first day of the week” which is Sunday. That is because the people would gather for Mass on Sunday and the church would take a collection, just as it happens today. There is also a reason why the gospel writers emphasize Jesus’ resurrection and appearances occurred on Sunday Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2,9; John 20:1,19. In Rev 1:10, the apostle John also notes that he witnesses the heavenly liturgy on Sunday, the first day of the week. In Col 2:16-17, St. Paul reveals that the Sabbath was only a shadow of what was fulfilled in Christ, and says “let no one pass judgment any more over a Sabbath.” Why? Because the Sabbath day obligation, which was only a shadow of what was to be fulfilled in Christ, has been transformed into the Lord’s Day, which is Sunday. Thus, we are not to judge people by the Old Sabbath anymore, because God has made it obsolete.

If these Scriptures are not enough, you should also read the following writings from the early Christians, who also reveal that the Church’s principal day of worship was changed from the “Sabbath” to the “Lord’s Day,” which is Sunday.

On the Lord’s own day, assemble in common to break bread and offer thanks, but first confess your sins so that your sacrifice may be pure.” Didache, 14 (A.D. 90).

“If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master.” Ignatius, To the Magnesians, 9:1 (A.D. 110).

“The seventh day, therefore, is proclaimed a rest—abstraction from ills—preparing for the Primal Day,[The Lord’s Day] our true rest; which, in truth, is the first creation of light, in which all things are viewed and possessed. From this day the first wisdom and knowledge illuminate us. For the light of truth—a light true, casting no shadow, is the Spirit of God indivisibly divided to all, who are sanctified by faith, holding the place of a luminary, in order to the knowledge of real existences. By following Him, therefore, through our whole life, we become impossible; and this is to rest.” Clement of Alexandria, Stromata, 6:16 (A.D. 202).

“In fine, let him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day because of the threat of death, teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath, or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered “friends of God.” For if circumcision purges a man since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did He not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? At all events, in settling him in paradise, He appointed one uncircumcised as colonist of paradise. Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised, and inobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering Him sacrifices, uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath, was by Him commended; while He accepted what he was offering in simplicity of heart, and reprobated the sacrifice of his brother Cain, who was not rightly dividing what he was offering. Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and inobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch, too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and in-observant of the Sabbath, He translated from this world; who did not first taste death, in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might by this time show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God.” Tertullian, An answer to the Jews, 2 (A.D. 203).

“The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the Holy Scriptures, and the oblation: because on the first day of the week our Lord rose from the lace of the dead and on the first day of the week He arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week He ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week He will appear at last with the angels of heaven.” Teaching of the Apostles, 2 (A.D. 225).

“Hence it is not possible that the rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh of our God; on the contrary, it is our Saviour who, after the pattern of His own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of His death, and hence also of His resurrection.” Origen, Commentary on John, 2:27 (A.D. 229).

“On the seventh day He rested from all His works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord’s day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. And let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews, which Christ Himself, the Lord of the Sabbath, says by His prophets that ‘His soul hateth;’ which Sabbath He in His body abolished.” Victorinus, On the Creation of the World (A.D. 300).

“They did not care about circumcision of the body, neither do we. They did not care about observing Sabbaths, nor do we.” Eusebius, Church History, 1:4,8 (A.D. 312).

“Also that day which is holy and blessed in everything, which possesses the name of Christ, namely the Lord’s day, having risen upon us on the fourth of Pharmuthi (Mar. 30), let us afterwards keep the holy feast of Pentecost.” Athanasius, Epistle 9:11 (A.D. 335).

“Fall not away either into the sect of the Samaritans, or into Judaism: for Jesus Christ henceforth hath ransomed thee. Stand aloof from all observance of Sabbaths, and from calling any indifferent meats common or unclean.” Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 4:37 (A.D. 350).

“Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord’s Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.” Council of Laodicea, Canon 29 (A.D. 360).

“For many other observances of the Churches, which are due to tradition, have acquired the authority of the written law, as for instance the practice of dipping the head three times in the layer, and then, after leaving the water, of tasting mingled milk and honey in representation of infancy; and, again, the practices of standing up in worship on the Lord’s day, and ceasing from fasting every Pentecost; and there are many other unwritten practices which have won their place through reason and custom. So you see we follow the practice of the Church, although it may be clear that a person was baptized before the Spirit was invoked.” Jerome, Dialogue against the Luciferians, 8 (A.D. 382).

“Then as one whom they must respect, there will be the presbyter among them and this will contribute to the security of the estate. There will be constant prayers there through thee hymns and Communions through thee; the Oblation on each Lord’s Day.” John Chrysostom, Acts of the Apostles, Homily 18 (A.D. 388).

“And on the day of our Lord’s resurrection, which is the Lord’s day, meet more diligently, sending praise to God that made the universe by Jesus, and sent Him to us, and condescended to let Him suffer, and raised Him from the dead. Otherwise what apology will he make to God who does not assemble on that day to hear the saving word concerning the resurrection, on which we pray thrice standing in memory of Him who arose in three days, in which is performed the reading of the prophets, the preaching of the Gospel, the oblation of the sacrifice, the gift of the holy food?” Apostolic Constitutions, 2,7:59 (A.D. 400).

“Well, now, I should like to be told what there is in these ten commandments, except the observance of the Sabbath, which ought not to be kept by a Christian,—whether it prohibit the making and worshipping of idols and of any other gods than the one true God, or the taking of God’s name in vain; or prescribe honour to parents; or give warning against fornication, murder, theft, false witness, adultery, or coveting other men’s property? Which of these commandments would any one say that the Christian ought not to keep? Is it possible to contend that it is not the law which was written on those two tables that the apostle describes as ‘the letter that killeth,’ but the law of circumcision and the other sacred rites which are now abolished? But then how can we think so, when in the law occurs this precept, ‘Thou shall not covet,’ by which very commandment, notwithstanding its being holy, just, and good, ‘sin,’ says the apostle, ‘deceived me, and by it slew me?’ What else can this be than ‘the letter’ that ‘killeth’?” Augustine, Spirit and the Letter, 23:14 (A.D. 412).

“He [Constantine] also enjoined the observance of the day termed the Lord’s day, which the Jews call the first day of the week, and which the pagans dedicate to the sun, as likewise the day before the seventh, and commanded that no judicial or other business should be transacted on those days, but that God should be served with prayers and supplications. He honored the Lord’s day, because on it Christ arose from the dead, and the day above mentioned, because on it he was crucified.” Sozomon, Ecclesiastical History, 1:8 (A.D. 443).

“It has come to my ears that certain men of perverse spirit have sown among you some things that are wrong and opposed to the holy faith, so as to forbid any work being done on the Sabbath day. What else can I call these but preachers of Antichrist, who, when he comes, will cause the Sabbath day as well as the Lord’s day to be kept free from all work. For, because he pretends to die and rise again, he wishes the Lord’s day to be had in reverence; and, because he compels the people to judaize that he may bring back the outward rite of the law, and subject the per-tidy of the Jews to himself, he wishes the Sabbath to be observed. For this which is said by the prophet, ‘Ye shall bring in no burden through your gates on the Sabbath day’, could be held to as long as it was lawful for the law to be observed according to the letter. But after that the grace of Almighty God, our Lord Jesus Christ has appeared, the commandments of the law which were spoken figuratively cannot be kept according to the letter. For, if any one says that this about the Sabbath is to be kept, he must needs say that carnal sacrifices are to be offered: he must say too that the commandment about the circumcision of the body is still to be retained. But let him hear the Apostle Paul saying in opposition to him, ‘If ye be circumcised, Christ profiteth you nothing.’” Pope Gregory the Great [regn. A.D. 590-604], To the Roman Citizens, Epistle


14 posted on 04/28/2012 12:00:13 AM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace

http://scripturecatholic.xanga.com/709036534/21—why-do-we-worship-on-sunday/


15 posted on 04/28/2012 12:00:49 AM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: Salvation

Both the mass and first day sabbath is accepted by the time of Justin Martyr. But it’s so much more fun to blame everything on evil Catholics and Constantine since most folks don’t know history...


16 posted on 04/28/2012 1:05:42 AM PDT by LadyDoc
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To: LadyDoc

Rofl!!!!!


17 posted on 04/28/2012 1:26:16 AM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace

Jesus himself said He did not come to abrogate the Law, which is the moral law, we more commonly know as the Ten Commandments:

Matthew 5:17
[ Christ Fulfills the Law ] “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

When Christ says He came to fulfill the law, He is not saying He is doing away with it but rather obeying it, doing the will of the Father and fulfilling the requirements of the Law. For as it is found in the Old Testament, “there is no remission of sin without the shedding of blood” Hebrews 9:22, Matthew 26:28

The only law that was done away with, as you say, was the ceremonial laws, including some ceremonial sabbaths, that fell not necessarily on the seventh day. However, the seventh day sabbath is an eternal precept instituted by God.

It is a shame that Just as the Jewish leaders rejected Messiah, so do leaders of the universal church and her daughter churches reject the Sabbath, based purely on conjecture and not definitive commandments in the Bible allowing this change from Sabbath to Sunday. We were forewarned of this by the Apostle Paul:

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;

The only two verses that you mention in the Bible the reference the first day of the week are actually out of context and there is enormous evidence in the Bible and in historical sources that the Apostles and the early church kept the sabbath and the reason they gathered on Sunday was because Paul preached to them on the Sabbath and the following day, Sunday, the disciples broke bread and collected offerings, so that the Sabbath could be entirely devoted to preaching the Word, as Paul and the disciples travelled much among the early churches...

Read:

Acts 17:2
Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

Acts 18:1,4
After these things Paul departed from Athens and went to Corinth...
V.4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

There is no Biblical evidence threat Sabbath was substituted for Sunday.

I am personally convinced that on something as important as this, and going against His own Law written on stone on Mt. Sinai, God would have been more clear on such a monumental change.


18 posted on 04/28/2012 5:04:30 AM PDT by hope_dies_last
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To: Salvation
Walk into an Adventist grocery store and the first thing you will notice is there is NO MEAT! None. Not even in cans.
While some will eat a little beef or chicken, PORK is absolutely forbidden to them.

Also NO tobacco, and our local one used to have NO caffenated sodas.

They also have NO coffee, and NO tea except herb teas.

Which reminds me of the SDA member who worked with my mom at a local hospital.
Each day he would go to the cafeteria and snerel up his nose and say ..”You got any of that OLD PIG? I don't want any of that OLD PIG!” always pronounced so he blows spittle everywhere.

One day one of the workers found him hiding in a linen closet with his jaws firmly firmly locked around a pork chop from some patient’s tray.

19 posted on 04/28/2012 6:54:47 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: johngrace; hope_dies_last

***21. Why do we worship on Sunday?***

Actually, Christians worship every day of the week as they are in a perpetual Sabbath being in CHRIST, therefore ceasing from their own works.

They just happen to gather together on THE RESURECTION DAY every week for public worship.


20 posted on 04/28/2012 7:04:00 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: hope_dies_last

The question: Do Seventh Day Adventist think the Christians that do NOT honor >Saturday as the Sabbath will get into Heaven?

The Catholic Church proclaims >everyone can get into Heaven; God’s grace is available to ALL.
Sin requires A. Willfulness, B. Full Knowledge & C. Serious Matter.
A Seventh Day Adventist >may enter Heaven as God determines >fault & who gets into Heaven.

Catholics are obligated to attend Church on Sundays. It has been answered here as to why Sunday is now the day of >worship. Sunday worship honors God & fulfills the requirement of the third commandment to honor God’s day.
Almost all Protestant churches worship on Sunday. There are more than two billion Christians in the world now. & Practically every Christian considers Sunday the proper day of worship.

All Christians honor Jesus Christ. We >rest in Jesus Christ & NOT a day (Saturday). We >rest in Jesus Christ because He is our savior. Sunday Jesus Christ rose from the dead.

Again: Almost ALL Christians honor Jesus Christ on Sunday. Jesus Christ is our >rest. We as Christians are ‘born-again’ created anew through Jesus Christ.
We are >dead in our sins. & Through Baptism we are made children of God. We are created anew. Jesus Christ made our >new life possible.

We are ALL called Christians because we Honor Jesus Christ & not a >day of the week.

Saturday was considered a day of rest for the Jews in the old testament. Saturday as a day of worship for Seventh Day Adventists has a traceable history through a >vision to a particular person in the 1800s. When you quote the Bible are you really letting the Bible ‘speak’ to you or do you search the Bible to justify a >vision someone had in the 1800s?

The real question that needs to be answered by you: Can Christians reach Heaven if they Honor God by worshipping on Sunday?


21 posted on 04/28/2012 7:05:55 AM PDT by gghd (A Pro-life Palinista & a member of the NRA)
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To: Nifster

The Easter season lasts until Pentecost. I realize that it’s currently Memorial Day at the Walmart, though, and as soon as that passes, it will be the 4th of July.

Happy Thanksgiving!


22 posted on 04/28/2012 7:08:36 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Your bulk-rate supplier of colons and semicolons!)
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To: Tax-chick

Mazel Tov!


23 posted on 04/28/2012 1:22:24 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Evidence, and reasonable inference from evidence.)
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To: hope_dies_last
Sabbath or Sunday, What Does Holy Scripture Say?

Sabbatarians, the sects which hold to the Sabbath, are 7th Day Adventists, Seventh Day Baptists, Seventh Day Pentecostals, Seventh Day Armstrong World Wide Church of GOD, and a few other small Sabbath keepers, and of course, the Jews.

Sabbath: (Shabbath in Hebrew), a Day of Atonement, a week, as defined in Hebrew sources, is Saturday the seventh day of the week in Jewish (Mosaic Old Covenant) religious law, and Sunday, the day of rest for most Christians, as defined in secular dictionaries. The day of rest for Christianity is defined as Sunday, the Lords day, because Jesus Christ was resurrected on Sunday. The word "Sabbath" is not a synonym for Saturday, just because it is practiced on Saturday by some.

I have been told repeatedly that there is no Biblical evidence for moving the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday, and these people invariably quote Old Testament verses while at the same time denying New Testament verses which are contrary to their teaching.

Sabbatarians refer to the ten commandments of Ex 20:1-17, but ignore Matt 22:34-40, where Jesus is asked what is the great commandment IN THE LAW. Jesus grouped all ten commandments as listed in the law, into only two. Love GOD, which are in commandments 1-3, and love your neighbor which are in 4-10. Love of GOD includes keeping a "day of rest" which is the real meaning of Sabbath. Not one word did Jesus say that this day would continue to be a Saturday.

I will deal with the demise of the Old Covenant first, which negates all Old Testament verses regarding worship on the Sabbath.

The Old Testament beginnings of the Sabbath:

And immediately, hints of its ending:

Exodus 31:13, "You must also tell the Israelites: Take care to keep My Sabbaths, for that is to be the token between you and Me throughout the generations, to show that it is I, the Lord, who makes you holy."

Exodus 31:16-17, "So shall the Israelites observe the Sabbath, keeping it throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. Between Me and the Israelites it is to be an everlasting token; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, but on the seventh day He rested at His ease."

Did you notice that the Sabbath is referred to as a "token" and that it was binding between GOD and the Israelites, and not between GOD and the rest of the world?

Compare this verse:

Genesis 17:11, "You shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; it shall be a token of the covenant between you and Me (Hebrews only)."

Is circumcision binding in the New Covenant of Jesus Christ? No, as that practice, "being only a token" was replaced by Baptism. See Colossians 2:11-14

Some Bibles use the words "symbol" or "sign", instead of token, but the meaning is the same.

A symbol, or a sign, or a token, or a shadow, or a Type , or a prefigurement, all used in Holy Scripture, are not the end result, but merely signs of the end result. Read Hebrews 10:1.

Many Old Testament verses portray a "Type" of an eighth day on which to worship or to make a special offering.

"Ezra read from the book of the law of God day after day, from the first day to the last. They kept the feast for seven days, AND THE SOLEMN ASSEMBLY ON THE EIGHTH DAY, AS WAS REQUIRED."

Nehemiah 8:18

Doesn't "Solemn Assembly on the EIGHTH DAY" sound like Sunday worship in a Church?

See also, Leviticus 9:1-2, 14:23, 15:14-15,29-30, 22:27, 23:36-39, Numbers 6:10-11, 29:35, and

Ezekiel 43:27

One of the Ten Commandments of Exodus 20 states, "Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day". All of the commandments are binding upon our day to day, or minute to minute existence except for one, and that one is, keeping of a weekly Sabbath. All of the commandments dwell upon one word. They are "Moral" laws. The Sabbath, being a weekly obligation, falls into the same category as "New Moons" (monthly), and "Festivals" (yearly). Keeping of the Sabbath is not a moral law but a "Ceremonial law", and is therefore subject to change, as was completed in Colossians 2:16-17, which clearly states that the Sabbath is but a "shadow" of things to come.

The Old Testament prophesies of the demise of the Sabbath:

Isaiah 1:13, "Offer sacrifice no more in vain: incense is an abomination to Me. The new moons, and the Sabbaths, and your festivals I will not abide."

Compare this prophecy with its fulfillment in Colossians 2:16-17.

Jer 31:31-34, "...and I will make a New Covenant...not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers...the covenant which THEY MADE VOID..."

Lam 2:6, "And he has destroyed his tent as a garden, he has thrown down his tabernacle. The Lord has caused feasts and Sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and has delivered up king and priest to reproach, and to the indignation of his wrath."

Hosea 2:11, "And I will cause all her mirth to cease, her solemnities, her new moons, her Sabbaths, and all her festival times."

Jesus Christ rebuked those who criticized Him for doing things on the Sabbath:

Matthew 12:1-8, Mark 2:23-28,3:1-6, Luke 13:14-17. In John 5:5-18, an imfirmed man was cured by Jesus on the Sabbath, and Jesus told the man to take up his pallet and walk, two clear violations of Sabbath keeping. In verse 10 the man is admonished by others for being in direct violation of carrying his pallet on the Sabbath.

Why do you suppose Jesus Himself broke the Sabbath twice? After all didn't He Himself write the ten commandments? Clearly He has prefigured the demise of the "ceremonial" Sabbath here.

The Old Covenant, and with it the Sabbath, was obsoleted by the New Covenant. It was fulfilled and replaced by the Law of Christ and the Lord's Day:

The Mosaic Covenant and with it the stone tablets with the 10 commandments were inseparable.

Ex 34:28, "So Moses stayed there with the Lord for forty days and forty nights, without eating any food or drinking any water, and he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments."

Deut 9:11, "Then, at the end of the forty days and forty nights, when the Lord had given me the two stone tablets of the covenant..."

1Kings 8:21, "And I have set there a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of the Lord, which he made with our fathers, when they came out of the land of Egypt."

2Chron 6:11, "And I have put in it the ark, wherein is the covenant of the Lord, which he made with the children of Israel."

2Cor 3:7-8, "Now if the ministration of death, which was engraved in letters upon stones, was inaugurated in such glory that the children of Israel could not look steadfastly upon the face of Moses on account of the transient glory that shone upon it, shall not the ministration of the spirit be still more glorious?"

2Cor 3:13-17, "We do not act as Moses did, who used to put a veil over his face that the Israelites might not observe the glory of his countenance, which was to pass away. But their minds were darkened; for to this day, when the Old Testament is read to them, the selfsame veil remains, not being lifted to disclose the Christ in whom it is made void. Yes, down to this very day, when Moses is read, the veil covers their hearts; but when they turn in repentance to GOD, the veil shall be taken away."

Heb 9:4, "In the ark was a golden pot containing the manna and the rod of Aaron which had budded, and the tablets of the covenant."

Heb 4:3-7, "We then who have believed shall enter into his rest, even as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath: They shall not enter into my rest. And indeed his works were completed at the foundation of the world. For somewhere he spoke of the seventh day thus, And GOD rested the seventh day from all his works; and in his place again: They shall not enter into my rest. Since then it follows that some are to enter into it, and they to whom it was first declared did not enter in because of unbelief, HE AGAIN FIXES ANOTHER DAY TO BE TODAY, saying by David after so long a time, as quoted above, Today if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."

What does "He again fixes another day to be today" mean? It means a day other than Saturday.

2Cor 5:17, "If then any man is in Christ, he is a new creature: the former things have passed away; behold, they are made new!"

Eph 2:15, "The law of the commandments expressed in decrees he has made void, that of the two He might create in Himself one new man and make peace."

Gal 4:8-11, "Formerly, when you did not know God, you were in bondage to beings that by nature are no gods; but now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and beggarly elemental spirits, whose slaves you want to be once more? You observe days (sabbaths), and months, and seasons, and years! I am afraid I have labored over you in vain."

Compare these verses with Col 2:13-19 below. Observing days is observing Sabbaths, observing months is observing new moons, observing years is observing festivals. And what does St. Paul have to say regarding this? He said he has labored in vain for those who continue to observe these things!

Col 2:13-19, "(13) And you, when you were dead by reason of your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh (failing to follow the Old Covenant), He brought to life along with Him, forgiving you all of your sins (bypassing the O.C.), (14) canceling the decree against us (the O.C.), which was hostile to us.

Indeed, He has taken it completely away, nailing it to the cross (the O.C. was nailed to the cross, effectively ending it, and with it the Sabbath)... (16) Let no one call you to account for what you eat or drink or in regard to a festival or a new moon, or a Sabbath." That says, just what it says, do not account for a Sabbath.

Verse (16) clearly says it, yet no Sabbatarian can explain this verse. It is ignored by them, as it is not in line with their teaching. One tried to say that it applied only to certain Sabbaths, not most, but he could not prove what he said.

Here, the Sabbath is ended, and further on in this file you will see where Sunday worship begins.

A 'type' is a Biblical person, thing, action, or an event, a 'prefigurement', or a 'shadow', in the Old Testament, of a new truth, a new action, or a new event in the New Testament.

For example, in Rom 5:12-14, Adam is shown to be a figure or 'type' of Christ (vs14). The New testament 'antitype' or 'reality' is always greater than its Old Testament 'type'.

Now in Col 2:17, "These are a 'SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME, but the substance is of Christ." The Old Testament 'SABBATH' is a 'TYPE' or 'SHADOW' (foreshadow) of the New Testament 'REALITY' of the Eucharistic Celebration, the Mass. These verses could not be any clearer that the Sabbath 'type' has ended, being replaced by its vastly superior 'antitype'. Read 2Cor 3:7-8.

Hebrews 8:6-13, "But now he has obtained a SUPERIOR MINISTRY, IN PROPORTION AS HE IS MEDIATOR, OF A SUPERIOR COVENANT, enacted on the basis of superior promises. For had the FIRST BEEN FAULTLESS, PLACE WOULD NOT OF COURSE BE SOUGHT FOR A SECOND. (so the O.C. was faulted, through our fault, not GOD's, and there was a need for a N.C.)....(vs13) Now in saying 'A NEW COVENANT,' HE HAS MADE OBSOLETE THE FORMER ONE; AND THAT WHICH IS OBSOLETE AND HAS GROWN OLD IS NEAR ITS END."

Romans 7:4-6, "...you also, through the Body of Christ, HAVE BEEN MADE TO DIE TO THE LAW, SO AS TO BELONG TO ANOTHER WHO HAS RISEN FROM THE DEAD, IN ORDER THAT WE MAY BRING FORTH FRUIT UNTO GOD...... BUT NOW WE HAVE BEEN SET FREE FROM THE LAW, HAVING DIED TO THAT BY WHICH WE WERE HELD DOWN, SO THAT WE MAY SERVE IN A NEW SPIRIT AND NOT ACCORDING TO THE OUTWORN LETTER.."

Hebrews 7:11-12, "...what further need was there that another priest should rise, according to the order of Melchisedech, and said not to be according to the order of Aaron? For when the priesthood is changed, IT IS NECESSARY THAT A CHANGE OF LAW BE MADE ALSO."

Hebrews 7:18-19, "On the one hand there is THE REJECTION OF THE FORMER COMMANDMENT, BECAUSE OF ITS WEAKNESS AND UNPROFITABLENESS FOR THE LAW BROUGHT NOTHING TO PERFECTION, AND ON THE OTHER HAND A BRINGING IN OF A BETTER HOPE, THROUGH WHICH WE DRAW NEAR TO GOD."

I do not see how Scripture could be any plainer than that. The Old Covenant, and with it the Sabbath, circumcision, bloody sacrifices and a multitude of other Jewish laws was ended and replaced by the New Covenant of Jesus Christ. The Sabbath is ended, finis, kaput... But there is a lot more. Read Hebrews 9 and 10, about the New Covenant.

Hebrews 10:9-10, '"Behold, I come to do thy will, O GOD," HE ANNULS THE FIRST COVENANT IN ORDER TO ESTABLISH THE SECOND.'

The Sabbath along with the Old Covenant is dead, the last nail driven into the coffin, and it is buried.

Galatians 3:10-29, "For those who rely on the works of the Law are under a curse...BUT THAT BY THE LAW NO MAN IS JUSTIFIED BEFORE GOD IS EVIDENT, BECAUSE HE WHO IS JUST LIVES BY FAITH....CHRIST REDEEMED US FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW.....BUT BEFORE THE FAITH CAME WE WERE KEPT IMPRISONED UNDER THE LAW, SHUT UP FOR THE FAITH THAT WAS TO BE REVEALED. THEREFORE THE LAW HAS BEEN OUR TUTOR UNTO CHRIST, THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH. BUT NOW THAT FAITH HAS COME, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER A TUTOR...."

The Old Covenant (the Law of Moses, and with it the Sabbath), has been a good tutor, but is no longer needed. It has been fulfilled.

Have you noticed in Matthew 19:16-30, when the man asked Jesus how he could have eternal life, that Jesus said "Keep the Commandments". When the man responds in verse 18, "Which?", Jesus recounts the moral commandments but He does not even mention that the Sabbath must be kept. The Commandments are listed again in Rom 13:8-10, but nothing is said about Christians are to keep the Sabbath.

In summary for this segment:

1. The Old Mosaic Covenant and the stone tablets with the writings are inseparable.

2. The Old Covenant has been made void and has been replaced by the New of Jesus Christ.

3. St. Paul condemns keeping of the Sabbath in the books of Galatians and Colossians. 4. There is no mention whatsoever in the New Testament that Christians are bound to keep the Sabbath of the Old Mosaic Covenant.

Sabbatarians insist that St. Paul preached to the Jews on the Sabbath, and therefore, the Sabbath is still the day of worship:

They are right about his preaching to the Jews on their Sabbath as shown in Acts 13:14, Acts 13:44, and Acts 18:4. What they fail to realize is, since that was the day when the Jews were gathered in the Synagogue, as it was their Sabbath, he could preach to the maximum number gathered in one place, all at one time. That was the only reason for his preaching to the Jews on their Sabbath.

He preached to the Jews first on their Sabbath, while they were gathered in one place and then after he preached to the Gentiles as shown in Acts 13:46.

Also, they fail to see that St. Paul was not under the Law of the Old Covenant, but under the Law of Christ, "And I have become to the Jews a Jew that I might gain the Jews; to those under the Law, as one under the Law, that I might gain those under the Law; to those without the Law, though I am not without the Law of GOD, but am under the Law of Christ." 1Cor 9:20-21

To break this down, in easier terms:

St. Paul said he was not under the Law of the Jews (the Old Covenant).

However, he said he was not without the Law.

He said his Law was a different Law.

He said his Law is the Law of Christ (the New Covenant).

Sabbatarians insist that it was the Catholic Church which changed the day of worship to Sunday, the first day of the week. They say there is absolutely no Biblical evidence for doing this:

Well, they are wrong again. The Catholic Church is the protector of Sacred Scripture as well as Sacred Tradition, and as protector, it abides by what Holy Scripture, Tradition, and the Holy Spirit tells it.

The day of worship was moved from Saturday to Sunday because the Lord rose on Sunday, and it is a celebration of the Resurrection. Christians wanted to get on with the New Covenant and separate themselves from the Old Jewish traditions.

The Catholic Church had the full authority given by Jesus Christ Himself to do this. See Matthew 16:19 where Peter, and Peter alone, is given the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven (the Church), and he is given the power of binding and loosening. In Matthew 18:18, Jesus Christ gave the other Apostles the power of binding and loosening, but He did not give them the keys.

The Apostles did this as shown very plainly in Scripture in Acts 20:7,

"And on the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, WHEN WE HAD MET FOR THE BREAKING OF THE BREAD, Paul addressed them..." Right here is the beginning of Sunday worship.

Thank you for insisting it was the Catholic Church which changed the day to Sunday, for since the Apostles made the change, all you did was to confirm that they were all Catholic.

The first day of the week is Sunday and the 'breaking of the bread' is the Catholic Mass. So translated, that verse reads, "WE MET ON SUNDAY FOR MASS."

Seventh Day Adventists have told me that the 'first day of the week' mentioned in this verse is really the 'seventh' day or the 'Sabbath'. This is a 'twisting' of Scripture by them to fit their teaching. Twisting Scripture is something the cults do to try and make Bible verses conform to their beliefs. Please, someone tell me how the "first" day means the "seventh" day? What wording would Luke have to use in order to convince you that he was talking about Sunday and not Saturday?

To use the same argument that Sabbath keepers use regarding Acts 20:7, I will have to refer you to Gen 2:2-3, where it says GOD rested on the seventh day. Using the same logic as Sabbath keepers use, then GOD really rested on the sixth day. Is that not true?

In Acts 20:7, St. Luke did not say they met on the morning of the first day, or at noon, or in the evening. He merely said "on the first day". Acts 20:8 does mention that there were "many lamps" in the upper room which indicates it was evening of the first day. Acts 20:9-11 support that it was indeed evening. It was customary to meet in the evening for the "Breaking of Bread", since Jesus instituted the Holy Eucharist in the evening during the Last Supper.

As I have said before, Sabbath keepers insist that the Catholic Church changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. By using the very same arguments that they do, I am forced to conclude, by using Acts 20:7 and 1Cor 16:2 as proof, that since it was the work of the Apostles that did this, they will also have to admit that Scripture shows that all of the Apostles were Catholic as mentioned earlier. This fact of course has been known by all Catholics for centuries.

Yet a different argument used by Sabbath keepers to "try to disprove" Acts 20:7, is that they say (using the underlying Greek) the verse cannot be interpreted that the disciples gathered to celebrate the Lords Supper that Sunday evening, as the Greek words used for "breaking of bread" are different from the Greek words used for the "Lords Supper" in 1Cor 11:20.

Well, they conveniently omit the fact that the Lords Supper was first instituted in Matt 26:26 where Jesus "broke" bread. The same Greek word for "broke", used in Matthew 26:26, is a variant of the Greek word for "breaking", in Acts 20:7.

Trying to prove a difference between "Lords Supper", and "Breaking Bread", has no validity whatsoever. The meaning is the same, but the wording is different.

If that wasn't enough, then they go on to say the verse does not mention the wine, therefore it cannot be the Eucharistic celebration or "communion". This is simply not true, as there are many verses which refer to the Eucharistic celebration, or the Mass, which do not mention the wine. Read this prime example:

"And when it came to pass when He reclined at table with them, that He took the bread and blessed and 'broke' and began handing it to them. And their eyes were opened, and they recognized Him; and He vanished from their sight (Luke 24:30-31)." Not one word about the "wine" is in this famous Emmaus encounter. Have you noted that they recognized the "true presence" of Jesus Christ at the breaking of bread? Here is another good verse for this subject:

"And they continued steadfastly in the teaching of the Apostles and in the 'communion of the breaking of the bread' and in the prayers (Acts 2:42)." Here, "communion" and "breaking of bread" are conveniently tied together. Notice also that "wine" is not mentioned here either. Just because Scripture does not mention the word does not mean wine was not used.

See these other verses which support what I have put forth here, Acts 2:11, and Acts 27:35.

Here is one which supports that "breaking of the bread" means the "Eucharistic celebration", and of taking "communion":

"And the 'bread that we break', is it not the partaking of the Body of the Lord (1Cor 10:16)?"

Sabbath keepers, try to explain this one? In 2Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come". The "New Creation" began at the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

In Luke 24:30, Jesus took bread and broke and handed it to them. The same Greek word (klah-o) is used in this verse for "breaking of bread", as in Acts 20:7. Jesus did this on the same day as His Resurrection. The first breaking of the bread of the "New Creation" was on Sunday and it was done by Jesus Christ Himself.

Please do not say Sunday worship is not Scriptural, since Acts 20:7 clearly shows that it simply is Scriptural when the verse is correctly interpreted. And the Saviour Himself was first to "Break Bread" after His Resurrection and He did it on Sunday.

Why did He not wait until the following Saturday to to this?

Sunday is called "The Lord's Day", as shown in Revelation 1:10.

There are many documents written by early Church Fathers which attest to the demise of worship on the Sabbath, replacing it with Sunday, "The Lord's Day". The earliest document, that I know of, is on this website. Please read the "Didache", the teaching of the Apostles, written between 70-95 A.D.

Not only have SDA's 'twisted' Holy Scripture to fit their false teachings, but now, just as Jehovah's Witnesses have done with their corrupted "New World Translation" (NWT), SDA's have re-written the Holy Bible into yet another corrupted version called, "Clear Word Bible" (CWB). Now in this abomination, they have re-written Holy Scripture to reflect more pointedly their false teaching. Here are just a few of the hundreds of changes they have made to the Word of GOD in a comparison between the King James Bible (KJ) and the CWB:

"Revelation 1:10 as read in the KJ, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet..."

Revelation 1:10 as read in the CWB, "One Sabbath morning when I had gone..."

See, when in the past they resorted to twisting this verse to try to show that it really meant the Sabbath, now they "legitimized it" (in the minds of SDA's) by changing the wording to 'Sabbath' instead of 'the Lord's day'.

Colossians 2:16 as read in the KJ, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days." Colossians 2:16 as read in the CWB, "Don�t let anyone control your life by giving you a set of ceremonial rules about what to eat, what to drink and what monthly festivals or special Sabbaths to keep."

See, the previously 'twisted' words of this verse are now "legitimized also" by the addition of the word "special", referring to Sabbaths."

Acts 20:7 as read in the KJ, "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."

Acts 20:7 as read in the CWB, "After sundown on Saturday night, the believers got together for a fellowship meal and to say good-by to Paul. That evening he spoke to them until midnight, after which he hoped to get a few hours sleep before leaving early Sunday morning."

See, the SDA 'twisting' of the first day of the week in the KJ to really mean the Sabbath, is now "legitimized" by making it appear to the uninformed to be the Sabbath instead of Sunday. However, 'after sundown on Saturday' is the next day, Sunday in the Jewish counting of days. Did you notice also that 'to break bread' has been changed to read 'fellowship meal'? That is a deliberate attempt to downplay the Communion or 'breaking of bread' of early Christians.

I could go on and on reciting the hundreds of abominations in the CWB, but I think you see the point. You can purchase the CWB and read it for yourself. It is obvious that SDA's ignore all of those verses which say not to add to or subtract from Holy Scripture.

So now do you believe Seventh-Day Adventism of GOD...or of Satan?

Contrary to the denial by Sabbatarians that the seventh day, the Lord's day, Sunday, is Biblical, I offer the following:

Biblical references to happenings on Sunday, the first day of the week...

1. Jesus Christ rose from the dead on Sunday, Lk 24:1-12

2. Christ appeared to the disciples on the road to Emmaus, and celebrated the Eucharist on Sunday, Lk 24:13

3. Jesus appeared to the disciples behind closed doors, Jn 20:19

4. Jesus appeared to the disciples with Thomas one week later, Jn 20:26 NAB

5. Jesus opened the minds of the Apostles to the Scriptures, Lk 24:45

6. The Apostles received their 'Great Commission' to go and teach all nations, Mt 28:1-20.

7. The Apostles were given the Holy Spirit and the power to forgive sins, Jn 20:19-23.

8. Jesus told the Apostles to wait in the city until they were to be clothed with power from on high, Lk 24:49.

9. On the seventh Sunday after the resurrection, the Holy Spirit descended upon the Apostles,

Acts 2:1-4. 10. Immediately after receiving the Holy Spirit, Peter gave a powerful address on the Gospel resulting in 3000 conversions, Acts 2:41.

11. The Apostles met for the Holy Eucharist on the 'first' day, Acts 20:7.

12. The Apostles set the 'first' day of the week for the Churches to take up the collections,

1Cor 16:1-2. Has any Sabbatarian ever seen the close connection between the sun and the Son?

"In that day there will be five cities in the land of Egypt which speak the language of Canaan and swear allegiance to the Lord of hosts. One of these will be called the City of the Sun. In that day there will be an altar to the Lord in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar to the Lord at its border. It will be a sign and a witness to the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt; when they cry to the Lord because of oppressors he will send them a savior, and will defend and deliver them."

Isaiah 19:18-20

"But for you who fear my name the sun of righteousness shall rise, with healing in its wings."

Malachi 4:2

"For the Lord GOD is a sun and shield, he bestows favor and honor. No good thing does the Lord withhold from those who walk uprightly."

Psalms 84:11

"It was now about the sixth hour, and there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour, while the sun's light failed; and the curtain of the temple was torn in two. Then Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said, "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!" And having said this he breathed his last."

Luke 23:44-46 "And very early on the first day of the week they went to the tomb when the sun had risen."

Mark 16:2

In this verse is yet another connection which many miss.

The sun had risen, and on a Sunday...

The SON had risen, and on a Sunday.

From the connections in these verses, it looks as if the spelling of Sunday could also be SONday.

Many early converts from Judaism continued for a while to attend the synagogue or temple on the Sabbath, as it was the house of God, and the Old Covenant fulfilled by the New was proclaimed and preached in the synagogue and temple.

At first there was little or no thought given to separating from the Jews, as many Jews were converting to the new faith. But this attendance in no way signified that the Apostles or their flock subjected their faith to the requirements of the Old Covenant as interpreted by the Jews.

To the contrary! These Jewish converts, as well as their gentile brothers, gathered often daily, but especially on Sundays, for "the apostles' instruction and the communal life, ...the breaking of bread and the prayers." (Acts 2:42).

Many Jews however, refused to convert and the salvation of GOD was sent to the Gentiles and so went the Sabbath, Acts 28:23-29. The New Testament does not provide any evidence that the Apostles instructed believers to continue observance of the weekly Sabbath.

But it does show that there were explicit teachings regarding the Eucharist and the Agape, both of which were especially celebrated on Sundays.

As history testifies, Christians more or less gradually abandoned the synagogue and temple because of the pre-eminent place given every Sunday by that first, glorious Easter Sunday.

Much independent historical evidence is available to demonstrate that beginning very early, the early Church gradually replaced the Sabbath observance with Sunday worship.

Here are a few questions for Sabbatarians to answer...

1. Since GOD rested on the seventh day in Gen 2:3, did He impose the Sabbath on Adam and Eve?

2. Did Noah and his family observe the Sabbath? How about Shem?

3. Did Abraham, or Isaac, or Jacob, or Joseph observe the Sabbath? These people came thousands of years after the day of rest for GOD. Show me in Holy Scripture where all of these people observed the Sabbath?

4. The Adamic covenant ended when the Noahic began. Then came the Abrahamic, followed by the Mosaic, and Davidic covenants, with each one superceding the one before it. Finally the covenant of Jesus Christ was begun, as the Old Covenant was fulfilled. Why do Sabbatarians still practice only parts of the Mosaic Old Covenant and reject the Sunday worship of the covenant of Jesus Christ? If you want to follow one of these GOD given covenants, then why do you pick part of this one and part of that one and then reject parts of each? The evidence I give here is overwhelming that the Sabbath is ended and along with it, the Mosaic Law. Read on for more proof.

5. Show me the verse(s) in the New Testament where anyone commands Gentiles (those who are not a Jew) to observe the Jewish Sabbath?

"To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant." That is what Cardinal John Newman said. Cardinal Newman was an Anglican priest until he studied the writings of the Church Fathers. In those writings, he found the true Church which Jesus Christ founded, and he converted to the Catholic Church.

The statement that he made above is the real reason why Protestant ministers and teachers tell their flocks not to read the writings of the Church Fathers. They are afraid of what they will find in the history of the Church. They are afraid of the truth.

Historical facts cannot be denied. Read the Church Fathers and decide for yourself. Interestingly, when I receive mail regarding this file, not once has there ever been any mention of the writings of the Church Fathers.

This leads me to believe that Sabbatarians are doing exactly what they have been told, "Avoid the writings of the Church Fathers, as they will corrupt you".

No my friends, they surely will not corrupt you. They instead, will teach you the truth, and knowing the truth will set you free, John 8:32. If you deny the truth you will perish, 2Thess 2:8-12.

WHAT DID CHURCH FATHERS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THE SABBATH?

Note! I have been told by a Seventh-Day Adventist that Church Fathers will not be read because of their title of "Fathers", an obvious reference to Matt 23:9, "Call no man on earth your Father..." This is simply an excuse on their part, to avoid the truth, and a very flimsy excuse at that. For hundreds of years, the Church Fathers and Ecclesiastical Writers faithfully recorded the history of Christianity.

The real reason that these people refuse to read these historical writings is a quote from a convert from Protestantism, John Cardinal Newman, which I have listed above, "To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant". I dare to say that these same people, therefore, cannot read the history of George Washington, the "Father" of our country, or of the "Fathers" of the Constitution, or of anyone else who is the "Father" of something or other. However, I will bet that they do read of those "Fathers".

The truth of the history of Christianity is found in literally hundreds of writings and by scores of authors. To ignore this vast treasure of writings is to ignore the truth of GOD.

"For the wrath of GOD is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of those men who in wickedness hold back the truth of GOD." Romans 1:18

"And his coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and LYING WONDERS, and with all wicked deception to THOSE WHO ARE PERISHING. FOR THEY HAVE NOT RECEIVED THE LOVE OF TRUTH THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED. THEREFORE, GOD SENDS THEM A MISLEADING INFLUENCE THAT THEY MAY BELIEVE FALSEHOOD, THAT ALL MAY BE JUDGED WHO HAVE NOT BELIEVED THE TRUTH, BUT HAVE PREFERRED WICKEDNESS." 2Thess 2:9-12

I challenge all of you to read the writings of the Church Fathers and the Ecclesiastical writers of the Early Church. The Didache...

This was the teaching of the Apostles. Therefore, it was the Apostles who first began Sunday worship...

"But every Lord's day... gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned." Didache 14, 70-100 A.D..

The Letter of Barnabas... "We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead." Letter of Barnabas 15:6-8, 74 A.D..

Ignatius of Antioch... "Those who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death."

Letter to the Magnesians 9. 107 A.D..

Justin Martyr... (100-165) "We too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined on you, namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart... How is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us, I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts?... God enjoined you to keep the Sabbath, and impose on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers."

Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 18, 21, 155 A.D..

Justin Martyr... "We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day (after the Jewish Sabbath, but also the first day of the week) when GOD, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day, Jesus Christ our Savior, rose from the dead."

1 Apol 67, Pg 6: 429 and 432.

Tertullian... "Let him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day... teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered 'friends of God'. For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges?... Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him (God) commended Gen. 4:1-7, Heb. 9:4... Noah also, uncircumcised, yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath, God freed from the deluge.

For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God."

An Answer to the Jews 2, 203 A.D.. The Didascalia... "The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the Holy Scriptures, and the oblation, because on the first day of the week our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven."

Didascalia 2, 225 A.D..

Origen... "Hence it is not possible that the day of rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh day of our God. On the contrary, it is our Savior who, after the pattern of his own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of his death, and hence also of his resurrection."

Commentary on John 2:28, 229 A.D..

Victorinus... "The sixth day [Friday] is called parasceve, that is to say, the preparation of the kingdom... On this day also, on account of the passion of the Lord Jesus Christ, we make either a station to God or a fast. On the seventh day he rested from all his works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord's day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. And let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews... which Sabbath he (Christ) in his body abolished."

The Creation of the World, 300 A.D..

Eusebius of Caesarea... "They (the early saints of the Old Testament) did not care about circumcision of the body, neither do we (Christians). They did not care about observing Sabbaths, nor do we. They did not avoid certain kinds of food, neither did they regard the other distinctions which Moses first delivered to their posterity to be observed as symbols; nor do Christians of the present day do such things."

Church History 1:4:8, 312 A.D..

Eusebius of Caesarea... "The day of his (Christ's) light... was the day of his resurrection from the dead, which they say, as being the one and only truly holy day and the Lord's day, is better than any number of days as we ordinarily understand them, and better than the days set apart by the Mosaic Law for feasts, new moons, and Sabbaths, which the Apostle (Paul) teaches are the shadow of days and not days in reality."

Proof of the Gospel 4:16:186, 319 A.D..

Athanasius... "The Sabbath was the end of the first creation, the Lord's day was the beginning of the second, in which he renewed and restored the old in the same way as he prescribed that they should formerly observe the Sabbath as a memorial of the end of the first things, so we honor the Lord's day as being the memorial of the new creation."

On Sabbath and Circumcision 3, 345 A.D.. Cyril of Jerusalem... "Fall not away either into the sect of the Samaritans or into Judaism, for Jesus Christ has henceforth ransomed you. Stand aloof from all observance of Sabbaths and from calling any indifferent meats common or unclean." Catechetical Lectures 4:37, 350 A.D..

Council of Laodicea... "Christians should not Judaize and should not be idle on the Sabbath, but should work on that day; they should, however, particularly reverence the Lord's day and, if possible, not work on it, because they were Christians."

Canon 29, 360 A.D.. John Chrysostom... "When he said, 'You shall not kill'... he did not add, 'because murder is a wicked thing'. The reason was that conscience had taught this before hand, and he speaks thus, as to those who know and understand the point. Wherefore when he speaks to us of another commandment, not known to us by the dictate of conscience, he not only prohibits, but adds the reason. When, for instance, he gave commandment concerning the Sabbath, 'On the seventh day you shall do no work', he subjoined also the reason for this cessation. What was this? 'Because on the seventh day God rested from all his works which he had begun to make', Ex 20:10. And again: 'Because you were a servant in the land of Egypt', Deut 5:15. For what purpose then, I ask, did he add a reason respecting the Sabbath, but did no such thing in regard to murder? Because this commandment was not one of the leading ones. It was not one of those which were accurately defined of our conscience, but a kind of partial and temporary one, and for this reason it was abolished afterward. But those which are necessary and uphold our life are the following: 'You shall not kill... You shall not commit adultery... You shall not steal.' On this account he adds no reason in this case, nor enters into any instruction on the matter, but is content with the bare prohibition."

Homilies on the Statues 12:9, 387 A.D..

John Chrysostom... "You have put on Christ, you have become a member of the Lord and been enrolled in the heavenly city, and you still grovel in the Law (of Moses)? How is it possible for you to obtain the kingdom? Listen to Paul's words, that the observance of the Law overthrows the gospel, and learn, if you will, how this comes to pass, and tremble, and shun this pitfall. Why do you keep the Sabbath and fast with the Jews?"

Homilies on Galatians 2:17, 395 A.D.. The Apostolic Constitutions... "And on the day of our Lord's resurrection, which is the Lord's day, meet more diligently, sending praise to God that made the universe by Jesus, and sent him to us, and condescended to let him suffer, and raised him from the dead. Otherwise what apology will he make to God who does not assemble on that day... in which is performed the reading of the prophets, the preaching of the gospel, the oblation of the sacrifice, the gift of the holy food."

Apostolic Constitutions 2:7:60, 400 A.D..

John Chrysostom... "The rite of circumcision was venerable in the Jews' account, forasmuch as the Law itself gave way thereto, and the Sabbath was less esteemed than circumcision. For that circumcision might be performed, the Sabbath was broken; but that the Sabbath might be kept, circumcision was never broken; and mark, I pray, the dispensation of God. This is found to be even more solemn that the Sabbath, as not being omitted at certain times. When then it is done away, much more is the Sabbath."

Homilies on Philippians 10, 402 A.D..

Jerome... (342-420) "The Lord's Day, the day of resurrection, the day of Christians, is our day. It is called the 'Lord's Day' because on it the Lord rose victorious to the Father. If pagans call it the 'Day of the Sun', we willingly agree, for today the 'Light of the World' is raised, today is revealed the 'sun of justice' with healing in his rays."

Pasch CCL 78, 550

Augustine... "Well, now, I should like to be told what there is in these Ten Commandments, except the observance of the Sabbath, which ought not to be kept by a Christian... Which of these commandments would anyone say that the Christian ought not to keep? It is possible to contend that it is not the Law which was written on those two tables that the apostle (Paul) describes as 'the letter that kills', 2 Cor. 3:6, but the law of circumcision and the other sacred rites which are now abolished."

The Spirit and the Letter 24, 412 A.D..

Pope Gregory I... "It has come to my ears that certain men of perverse spirit have sown among you some things that are wrong and opposed to the holy faith, so as to forbid any work being done on the Sabbath day. What else can I call these (men) but preachers of Antichrist, who when he comes will cause the Sabbath day as well as the Lord's day to be kept free from all work. For because he (the Antichrist) pretends to die and rise again, he wishes the Lord's day to be had in reverence; and because he compels the people to Judaize that he may bring back the outward rite of the Law, and subject the perfidy of the Jews to himself, he wishes the Sabbath to be observed. For this which is said by the prophet, 'You shall bring in no burden through your gates on the Sabbath day', Jer 17:24, could be held to as long as it was lawful for the Law to be observed according to the letter. But after that the grace of almighty God, our Lord Jesus Christ, has appeared, the commandments of the Law which were spoken figuratively cannot be kept according to the letter. For if anyone says that this about the Sabbath is to be kept, he must needs say that carnal sacrifices are to be offered. He must say too that the commandment about the circumcision of the body is still to be retained. But let him hear the apostle Paul saying in opposition to him: 'If you be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing', Gal. 5:2."

Letters 13:1, 597 A.D..

Isn't it strange that there are absolutely no writings by the Fathers of the Church in support of Saturday worship instead of Sunday, even from the very first ones? Isn't that the real reason why Sabbath keepers refuse to read them because they cannot find support for Saturday worship? What about the Apostles? Where did they say, "we will continue to worship on Saturday"?

The Fathers did not write that Christians should keep the Sabbath simply because the New Testament of Jesus Christ has not one single verse which says we must do so. There are several verses to the contrary as I have previously pointed out, but not one word to hold to the Sabbath. As proof of what I say, read Romans 13:8-10 where the commandments are listed and note verse 9, "...and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, you shall love your neighbor as yourself." Show me where it says for Christians, 'Thou shalt keep the Sabbath'? You cannot make something go away simply by ignoring it, and you cannot read into Scripture something that is simply not there.

How do the Sabbath keepers explain this?

Sabbath keepers; Where in the New Testament does it say that Christians are required to worship on Saturday?

Where in the New Testament does it say that the Sabbath must be kept by Christians?

Summary of what I have shown:

1. The Mosaic stone tablets and the Old Covenant are inseparable.

2. The Sabbath was but a "token" of things to come.

3. The Sabbath was but a "shadow" of things to come.

4. The Old Covenant and with it the Sabbath, was replaced by the New Covenant.

5. Where the commandments are listed in the New Testament, nothing is said about the Sabbath.

6. All of the commandments are moral laws save one, the Sabbath. It was a ceremonial law.

7. Ceremonial laws are subject to change.

8. Jesus Christ gave His Catholic Church the authority to make the change.

9. The Mosaic moral laws were carried over into the New Testament and are listed.

10. The Mosaic ceremonial law of the Sabbath was not carried over into the New Testament.

11. There is no verse in the New Testament which binds Gentiles to keep the Jewish Saturday Sabbath.

12. There are verses which admonish Christians NOT to hold to the Jewish Sabbath, as I have listed.

13. There are verses in the N.T. which show that the Apostles worshiped on Sunday, not Saturday.

14. Since the Apostles worshipped on Sunday, and since SDA's insist that the Catholic Church changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday, then I must thank the SDA's for admitting that the Apostles were Catholic.

15. Jesus Christ broke bread on Sunday the day of His Resurrection, the first "breaking of bread" of the "New Creation".

Some final notes:

The Old Covenant was fulfilled, being replaced by the New.

The only ones refusing to let go of the Old Covenant are the Jews and a few Sabbatarians.

I must point out to the latter group, that you cannot be pickers and choosers.

If you insist on the Saturday Sabbath, then you have to accept and practice ALL of the Old Law, such as circumcision, bloody sacrifices, and all those 'good' things in Leviticus. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot have part of the old and part of the new. It is an all or nothing situation. True Christians abide by the laws of the New Covenant, as New Testament Holy Scripture commands.

Not one SDA has ever been able to show me where the words "Sola Scriptura" (SS) and its meaning are found in Holy Scripture. According to the SDA definition of SS, how can anyone believe in "Bible Only" if it cannot be found in the Bible itself? I have searched for years for the verse(s) and have asked so many non-Catholics to show me where it is in Scripture, and not one has been able to. Maybe you will be the first...but only AFTER you read and study this.

A letter to all Sabbatarians: If you refuse to believe the Holy Bible, the teachings of the Apostles, the Didache, the teachings of the Church Fathers, as shown here (and I trust you did not believe what I have posted and researched the files for yourselves), then I say, I have sympathy for you.

The evidence against you is overwhelming. You are following the false prophet. I will not listen to you as you continue to beat the dead horse. Show me in the New Testament where true Christians are to keep the Sabbath?

The Old Covenant is FULFILLED. The Sabbath is DEAD, ENDED, FINISHED, KAPUT. We are in the New Covenant of Jesus Christ, and no matter how sincere you are to try to come across in your beliefs, you are sincerely wrong. I have heard all of your baseless arguments over and over again. Less than 1% of all Christianity believes as you do.

24 posted on 04/28/2012 2:04:42 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace

http://home.inreach.com/bstanley/sabbath.htm


25 posted on 04/28/2012 2:05:34 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: hope_dies_last

How many times do we Catholics need to tell you that we do not pray “to” the Blessed Virgin Mary or the saints?

We only ask them to ask Jesus for a prayer — or whatever we might be praying about.

We only ask — we do not worship.

Got that?

Then please don’t repeat the falsehood again!


26 posted on 04/28/2012 2:07:35 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Nifster

There are 40 days of Easter in all Christian Churches from Easter Sunday until Pentecost.

fifty — penta — get the connection? pentagon, for example, is a five sided building.

I guess you may not have known this?


27 posted on 04/28/2012 2:09:01 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: hope_dies_last
Early Church Fathers - Worship on Sabbath or Sunday

28 posted on 04/28/2012 2:10:50 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: hope_dies_last

Did you slip into Catholic bashing?


29 posted on 04/28/2012 2:36:37 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Happy Birthday!

An actual approaching festivity is Star Wars Day, May 4, and it’s also OldTax-lady’s birthday.


30 posted on 04/28/2012 5:35:24 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Your bulk-rate supplier of colons and semicolons!)
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To: BipolarBob
Is anyone . . I mean anyone more legalistic than Catholics?

LOL. I grew up between two families of strict Babdists. Didn't drink (ever), didn't dance (ever), solemnly insisted that anyone who said "heck" or "darn" was swearing and bound for hellfire.

You're telling me Catholics are "legalistic"?

Oddly enough, Catholics get it from both sides. We're simultaneously condemned for being "legalistic" and being "lax".

Perhaps, they're just right.

31 posted on 04/29/2012 5:50:03 AM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: hope_dies_last
Jesus himself said He did not come to abrogate the Law, which is the moral law, we more commonly know as the Ten Commandments

The Saturday Sabbath is not part of the moral Law. It's ceremonial, and was prescribed only for the Jews. (In fact, according to Jewish halacha, Gentiles are not supposed to observe the Sabbath.)

Please note that the moral law is binding on everyone, and could be perfectly comprehended by unfallen human nature entirely apart from divine revelation. Unfallen human nature could certainly conclude the existence of God, could conclude that he ought to be worshipped, and could even (perhaps) conclude that time ought to be sanctified by some regular schedule of worship ... say, perhaps, every seven days.

But there's no way to get to a Saturday worship requirement, as opposed to say a Tuesday worship requirement, apart from divine revelation. The Saturday sabbath is part of the ceremonial law, certainly not binding on Gentile Christians.

32 posted on 04/29/2012 5:58:11 AM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Campion

I’m curious. Can one rely on the text of the Bible itself to distinguish ceremonial from moral law? Common sense? Logic? Holy Tradition? Holy Spirit?


33 posted on 04/29/2012 6:47:56 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Campion
We're simultaneously condemned for being "legalistic" and being "lax". Perhaps, they're just right.

No, this type of imbalance is more indicative of straining at gnats and swallowing camels.

34 posted on 04/29/2012 8:34:45 AM PDT by BipolarBob ("Oh no, I'm not sick, well I'm not physically sick anyway. Mentally I'm sick beyond any doctor's abi)
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To: johngrace
1. Since GOD rested on the seventh day in Gen 2:3, did He impose the Sabbath on Adam and Eve? Yes

2. Did Noah and his family observe the Sabbath? How about Shem? Yes, Shem's a maybe

3. Did Abraham, or Isaac, or Jacob, or Joseph observe the Sabbath? Yes

4. Why do Sabbatarians still practice only parts of the Mosaic Old Covenant and reject the Sunday worship of the covenant of Jesus Christ? We follow Gods Law. The Ten Commandments are for all mankind eternally. And He said unto them "The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath" The Sabbath was for man not Jews alone.

5. Show me the verse(s) in the New Testament where anyone commands Gentiles (those who are not a Jew) to observe the Jewish Sabbath? John 14:15 Do you love Jesus?

Less than 1% of all Christianity believes as you do. 1 person + God is always a majority.

My questions for you are these. What day did Jesus our example keep? Why did Jesus say " But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter , neither on the Sabbath day" for an event that happened decades after His death if the Sabbath was no longer valid? The Bible supports the Sabbath as THE day to worship God on earth as it will be in Heaven.

35 posted on 04/29/2012 9:05:47 AM PDT by BipolarBob ("Oh no, I'm not sick, well I'm not physically sick anyway. Mentally I'm sick beyond any doctor's abi)
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To: BipolarBob
If you read the whole article to the end. The importance of the sabbath is a day of rest then what day of the week. Christ is talking about a day of rest not what day of the week. Reread the whole article. Also the authority given the church.

"The day of rest for Christianity is defined as Sunday, the Lords day, because Jesus Christ was resurrected on Sunday. The word "Sabbath" is not a synonym for Saturday, just because it is practiced on Saturday"

. THIS ALSO FROM ARTICLE.

". Love of GOD includes keeping a "day of rest" which is the real meaning of Sabbath. Not one word did Jesus say that this day would continue to be a Saturday."

36 posted on 04/29/2012 12:09:35 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace
Also the authority given the church.

What Church? Gods Church has been established in Heaven. Jesus is our High Priest. He is the Cornerstone which the builders have rejected. He is the Rock of Ages. You have a manmade church with manmade traditions. What day did Jesus observe? What day did He claim as His? Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of Man is Lord also of the Sabbath. I quote the Bible. You quote articles or some "saint". As far as being in the 1%, which gate does the Bible say is the widest? The gate to destruction or the strait gate to Heaven? Matthew 7:13. You have eyes and ears, use them wisely.

37 posted on 04/29/2012 12:52:29 PM PDT by BipolarBob ("Oh no, I'm not sick, well I'm not physically sick anyway. Mentally I'm sick beyond any doctor's abi)
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To: hope_dies_last

BRILLIANTLY stated.


38 posted on 04/29/2012 1:13:00 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: BipolarBob
You go Bob! Get it going Bob! Some old stereo types. You bought a lot of them too? Let's see can I ask you an honest question?

Bob I left the Catholic church and came back . I believed like you did at one time. Now think.

Here is the question.

Did you read this from other books and people or you read it just purely from the Bible only before you figured this out?

Meaning did man tell you this "tradition "thought lines first then you went back to the bible because they point out a said verse for you. You see not for you to understand from the bible only or alone to see it. In other words you went by others" traditions "on scripture to even declare what you are trying to declare.

Do you not see the irony of your own words.

Most people who claim this get it from others whether they admit it or not. I know I finally realized it myself. Then I read the bible unvarnished. Then you realize a Church was established which brought forth gospel writings and epistles that were addressed to the same continuous Church to show. Two thousand years! The Catholic church. Not too many churches claim this.

39 posted on 04/29/2012 1:28:28 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: hope_dies_last
The only law that was done away with, as you say, was the ceremonial laws, including some ceremonial sabbaths, that fell not necessarily on the seventh day. However, the seventh day sabbath is an eternal precept instituted by God.

I will disagree with you in this. Read Col 2 very carefully. The Holy Days are shadows of things to come - they are prophetic, even as Yeshua fulfilled the spring feasts to the very letter, minute by minute, so will He fulfill the Fall feasts. I can find NO case wherein the law was changed.

I am personally convinced that on something as important as this, and going against His own Law written on stone on Mt. Sinai, God would have been more clear on such a monumental change.

NO MAN has seen YHWH, it is written. So who was it that wrote with His finger upon the stones at Mt Sinai? Indeed, Yeshua would not change what he wrote Himself.

40 posted on 04/29/2012 1:33:57 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: johngrace; BipolarBob
Did you read this from other books and people or you read it just purely from the Bible only before you figured this out?

Oh, THAT's a very good question.

How it worked for me is like this: I could not find ANY way to accept any of the Christian tradition (not just yours, but Protestant too) without having to declare Jesus a false prophet and teacher. Try to prove your savior upon the Old Covenant - The Apostles did. Paul did. You cannot, nor could I. I can now.

41 posted on 04/29/2012 1:46:24 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: BipolarBob
"You have a manmade church with manmade traditions."

Not so. Please refer to Matthew 16. When Jesus established His Church He first established His desired method of Church governance and then He identified His first Pope.

Jesus created a visible Church, a Catholic, Holy, and Apostolic Church. An Ekklesia is a convocation, not a loose invisible assembly.

Jesus introduced three forms of Church governance and specifically rejected two of them. He first considered the democratic (Sola Scriptura) method when He asked; "Who do the people say that I am?". He received several different answers, John the Baptist, Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." None of them right.

He then introduced and rejected an oligarchical form similar to the Pharisees or Sanhedrin when He asked His Apostles collectively; "Who do you say that I am?" They did not answer.

He then revealed His desired method, a theocracy under one chosen man as God had done since He chose Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Joseph, Moses, David, and Solomon when Peter stepped forward, without consulting the other and said; "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God."

"Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father."

And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the hell shall not prevail against it."

"I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

42 posted on 04/29/2012 2:14:15 PM PDT by Natural Law (The Pearly Gates are really a servants entrance.)
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To: johngrace

Thanks Johnindisgrace, hang your head and follow the 99%. Follow your churchs traditions. Follow your pope. You are a follower. I tell you Jesus kept the Sabbath and the Bible declares His law will stand forever. One of His laws starts with “Remember” and there is a reason for that. Go your way.


43 posted on 04/29/2012 2:56:42 PM PDT by BipolarBob ("Oh no, I'm not sick, well I'm not physically sick anyway. Mentally I'm sick beyond any doctor's abi)
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To: Natural Law
"And so I say to you, you are Peter, Cephas or little stone

and upon this Rock I will build my church, and the gates of the hell shall not prevail against it." The contrast is between Peter (the little stone) and Jesus The Rock of Ages. Also note the gates of hell prevailed against Peter when he denied His Savior, not once, not twice but three times. Let's go farther in the chapter to v.23 "Get thee behind me Satan; thou art an offense unto me, for thou savorest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men". The empowerment of Peter (and the other eleven)will come in Heaven when the binding and loosening takes place.

44 posted on 04/29/2012 3:07:09 PM PDT by BipolarBob ("Oh no, I'm not sick, well I'm not physically sick anyway. Mentally I'm sick beyond any doctor's abi)
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To: BipolarBob
The contrast is between Peter (the little stone) and Jesus The Rock of Ages."

I commend you for looking beyond the contrived or forced interpretation to the context of Scripture. Because He is the Word (Logos) made flesh every word of Scripture is as important and precious as every crumb of the Eucharist.

Following the feeding of the 5,000 near Capernaum Jesus took Peter and along with the other Apostles and Disciples up to Caesarea Philippi to reveal his papacy to him. The selection of the location is far from a coincidence. Caesarea Philippi is a 25 mile, two day hike from Capernaum through some pretty rough country.

At the site of the revelation is a massive exposed rock cliff. Atop the rock stood the city of Caesarea Philippi. It was a very important location militarily, and had been a place of temples and worship dating back thousands of years before the first century. At the base of the cliff is a massive grotto that at the time was a natural cistern that the Greeks and their predecessors believed was an a gate to the underworld. Physically, that rock stood between an city of temples and the gates of hell.

Jesus then told Peter that he was a smaller rock, and that upon it, like the larger rock upon which was built the city before them, He would build His Church and that it would stand forever against the gates of hell. A side note is that all of this arguing about the relevance of Petros versus Petra is foolish in the context of that location. Jesus often used wordplay and humor to convey His message.

45 posted on 04/29/2012 4:35:45 PM PDT by Natural Law (The Pearly Gates are really a servants entrance.)
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To: BipolarBob

Bobby now! Let’s be respectful. Get the name right. No degoratory please. Johngrace is the name.


46 posted on 04/29/2012 5:31:04 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: Natural Law
Wow! I did not know it. That is very interesting indeed. Thanks for sharing!

Do you know of any modern pics that show this as true to form of years ago. Amazing facts! That would make it more tangible in the eyes of the apostles at the time. Thanks!

47 posted on 04/29/2012 5:40:29 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: Natural Law

I just looked that up. There is info on exactly what you stated and more. Interesting. We always learn a new thing everyday!! Lol!!! Bless you! Praise Jesus!!


48 posted on 04/29/2012 5:46:12 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace

Johngrace it is. May God forgive you for the trampling of His Law. The Law is holy, perfect and eternal. The law does not save us, it can only condemn. It is the mirror to show us our imperfections. Without it we cannot know sin. If we cannot know sin we know not to repent. Without repentance there can be no mercy. To change a jot or tittle of Gods Law distorts the mirror. It cannot then give a true reflection of our sins. To break one Commandment is to break them all. The first four are our obligation to God and the last six are our obligation to our fellow man. I am done with this thread.


49 posted on 04/29/2012 6:15:30 PM PDT by BipolarBob ("Oh no, I'm not sick, well I'm not physically sick anyway. Mentally I'm sick beyond any doctor's abi)
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To: johngrace
"Do you know of any modern pics that show this as true to form of years ago."

At the location today there is an artist's reconstruction of the site in ancient times. You can see them if you yahoo or google search images for Caesarea Philippi and the Gates of Hell.

An interesting side story is that the Greek era temples atop the rock were dedicated to Panis, the Greek god Pan who was the sudden fear, mischief and confusion (it is where we get the word panic). Pan is the Greek God of shepherds and flocks and depicted in mythology as being half man and half goat.

Also of interest is the fact that although the cave is filled with rock due to earthquake activity in Jesus' day it was full of water and no one had ever measured the depth. The deepest sounding line tried in ancient times put the depth of the water at over 800 ft. The ancients would throw their sacrifices in and believe the gods were answering positively if the blood was seen in the springs nearby which form the source of the Jordan River.

50 posted on 04/29/2012 6:15:30 PM PDT by Natural Law (The Pearly Gates are really a servants entrance.)
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