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Childish behavior



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[Mormon] Bishop’s handling of Vernon incest case was correct
Tooele Transcript Bulletin ^ | May 8, 2012 | Merrill Nelson

Posted on 05/23/2012 9:20:15 AM PDT by greyfoxx39

A recent Transcript article described the conviction of a 67-year-old Vernon man for the molestation of his minor daughter 18 years ago ( “Father gets six months in jail for seven years of incest,” April 19). The focus of the article appeared to be whether the sentence imposed by the court was too lenientis headline not only shifted the focus from the offender and his sentence, but wrongly assumed that the bishop had a legal duty to report and disparaged the bishop by concluding that he “failed” in that duty.. However, the sub-headline to the story was that the “LDS bishop was informed of abuse 18 years ago but failed to report crime.” This headline not only shifted the focus from the offender and his sentence, but wrongly assumed that the bishop had a legal duty to report and disparaged the bishop by concluding that he “failed” in that duty.

[Excerpt from earlier article]
”A former Vernon resident was sentenced in 3rd District Court Tuesday to six months in jail for abusing his daughter over a period of seven years, 18 years ago.

The 67-year-old man, whom the Transcript-Bulletin is not naming in an effort to protect the identity of the victim, apologized to the court, the victim and his family for sexually abusing his daughter from 1987 to 1994 when she was a child. According to statements made in court Tuesday, the girl reported the abuse to her mother in 1994, and the man subsequently told his LDS bishop what he had done. This resulted in him being excommunicated from the church, but the bishop never reported the crime.”
Read more: Tooele Transcript Bulletin - Father gets six months in jail for seven years of incest


Under Utah law, everyone has a duty to report child abuse, with the express exception of clergy who hear the abuse information confidentially from the offender, as the bishop did in this case. Confidential confessions of abuse by the offender fall within the statutory clergy privilege and cannot be disclosed. Clergy do have a duty to report abuse information from any source other than the offender.

The law was the same in 1994, when the victim in the Vernon case informed her mother and the abuse stopped. The article states that other family members were also informed of the abuse. The offender subsequently confessed to his bishop, who took appropriate church disciplinary action.

Accordingly, because the bishop in the Vernon case received the abuse information confidentially from the offender, the bishop had no duty to report to civil authorities. In fact, the bishop had a legal duty to keep the offender’s confidence and could not legally report. The bishop is the only person in the picture who did not have a duty to report. The mother and the other family members who knew of the abuse did have a legal duty to report. The article makes no mention of their “failure to report.” In any event, the reporting of the abuse was apparently not an issue in the criminal proceeding. The primary issue there was the appropriate punishment for the crime.

Some may claim that there should be no reporting exemption for clergy, that clergy have a moral duty to report abuse. However, the clergy privilege, which legally binds clergy to confidentiality in all states, has been in place for centuries and serves the important public policy of providing a private outlet for confession of misconduct to relieve the burdened soul and begin the process of renewal and recompense. Without that source of spiritual consolation and assurance of confidentiality, offenders would be less likely to come forward, and abuse, as well as other misconduct, would remain undisclosed and allowed to continue. Private disclosure of abuse allows the clergyman, as part of the repentance process, to take steps to stop the abuse, inform others with the offender’s consent, and get help to victims and offenders. In such cases, reporting is then left to the family or other professionals, as in the Vernon case.

We all abhor and condemn child abuse in all its forms and degrees. The Vernon case is a tragic example of the lasting harm to victims and families caused by abuse. Fortunately, the abuse stopped with disclosure to the mother, the victim is healing, and now criminal justice has been meted out to the offender. The bishop’s role was to help the victim and family heal and help the offender reform, and the bishop properly filled that role.

Merrill Nelson is an attorney at Kirton McConkie and chief legal counsel to the LDS Church Abuse Help Line.



TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: abuse; mormon; romney
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Note: The mormon church boasts that their clergy is a "lay" clergy, which means leaders have NO formal training for the position of spiritual or moral guidance of members.

There was another sexual abuse case in AZ where the local bishop failed to notify legal authorities.

Mormon Church Denies Prior Knowledge of Susan Brock Affair With Teen Boy, Which is a Lie

1 posted on 05/23/2012 9:20:28 AM PDT by greyfoxx39
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To: Colofornian; Elsie; svcw; Zakeet; Tennessee Nana; aMorePerfectUnion; Godzilla; fishtank; metmom; ..

Ping


2 posted on 05/23/2012 9:29:48 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The epitome of stupidity is a member of a proven racist sect running against a black man.)
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To: greyfoxx39

the bishop had no duty to report to civil authorities
__________________________________________________

The law doesnt say that he must not...

What decent person would just stand by and do nothing while such an evil sin was being committed ???


3 posted on 05/23/2012 9:55:26 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
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To: greyfoxx39

This “bishop” person had a duty to report, the crime. I am glad he is going to jail.
This “oh we don’t pay our “bishops or clergy”, is so bogus.
What do they think tithes (in part) are for - to support the religious leader so they are not burdened by everyday needs.


4 posted on 05/23/2012 10:02:16 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw

Misread - thought the none reporting “bishop” was going to jail.


5 posted on 05/23/2012 10:06:56 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Tennessee Nana; svcw

“Confidential confessions of abuse by the offender fall within the statutory clergy privilege and cannot be disclosed.”

I can’t speak directly to the law, but the lawyer’s statement above says that clergy cannot disclose, when the information comes from the offender.

It is one of the moral conflicts of clergy. On the one hand, if he reports (if he can legally report), nobody will come to him for counsel, and he becomes much less effective. On the other hand, if he doesn’t report, the person may continue harming others.

In this case, it sounds like the offender stopped his abuse (that’s a positive). It also sounds like the bishop gave help to all concerned.

As clergy, his concern should be for souls, not vengence, or even punishment. If the abuse continued, that places a heavy burden on the bishop, but does not, I think, remove his responsibility of confidentiality.

I do note that the offender did not escape punishment from the church - so, from what we have from the attorney, the bishop did as much as he was legally allowed to do - to stop the abuse (by advising and punishment) and to help the victim(s). If the abuse stopped, a good outcome. The only thing missing is the punishment, and the perp is getting that now.

BTW - bishops are not paid. Tithes support the church, its administration and paid officials - but not the bishops or elders.


6 posted on 05/23/2012 10:52:14 AM PDT by GilesB
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To: GilesB

The question actually should be, are lds “bishops” really clergy?
BTW The concept of tithing which comes from the Old Testament was to first support the religious leaders so they would not burdened with everyday necessitates and be of council to the flock, then the meeting place, then the store house.


7 posted on 05/23/2012 11:17:57 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw

It’s called tithes, offerings and alms.


8 posted on 05/23/2012 11:18:52 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw

I know about the Old Testament use of tithes - however, we were talking about how the LDS church uses its tithes: They are not used to support bishops and elders.

Who, other than the church, has the right to answer the question of who they designate as their clergy? If the Mormon church considers them clergy, then I accept that they are LDS clergy.


9 posted on 05/23/2012 11:30:35 AM PDT by GilesB
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To: GilesB

The law defines what a clergy is, they can call the ‘bishops” fish for all I care.


10 posted on 05/23/2012 11:35:18 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw

You might be wrong.

Do you really want the government deciding who is and who is not clergy? I certainly don’t.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Clergy
See #3

According to #3, if the LDS says their bishops are clergy, they are clergy.


11 posted on 05/23/2012 11:46:26 AM PDT by GilesB
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To: GilesB

I don’t care what the lds call these people.
They are untrained in counseling (in any aspect of human relationship), part time guys who randomly think they have all the answers to problems and issues they have no business dealing with.


12 posted on 05/23/2012 11:55:26 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw; GilesB; xzins; greyfoxx39

This brings up an interesting conundrum. Since every LDS male over the age of 16 is ordained a “priest” is any LDS male obligated to tell the authorities about child sexual abuse that is admitted to them by any other LDS member? Or is every priesthood holder exempt?


13 posted on 05/23/2012 12:23:52 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Virgil Goode! Because everyone else is Bad!)
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To: greyfoxx39
The mormon church boasts that their clergy is a "lay" clergy...

GROAN!

14 posted on 05/23/2012 1:03:38 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: greyfoxx39
... leaders have NO formal training for the position of...

Double GROAN!

15 posted on 05/23/2012 1:04:25 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: greyfoxx39

Huh?

What 'position'??

We're just MISSIONARIES!

16 posted on 05/23/2012 1:05:46 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: P-Marlowe
This brings up an interesting conundrum.

Triple...

17 posted on 05/23/2012 1:07:13 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: P-Marlowe
I wonder if THIS 'traning' has any influence on how the sexual mores of MORMONs develope?


What is your church doing to help the male to stay true?
 




prophet kimball"All of this should be conveyed without having priesthood leaders focus upon intimate matters which are a part of husband and wife relationships. Skillful interviewing and counseling can occur without discussion of clinical details by placing firm responsibility on individual members of the Church to put their lives in order before exercising the privilege of entering a house of the Lord. The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it."
- Official Declaration of the First Presidency of the Church, January 5th, 1982


spencer kimball"Prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward godhood which is the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young man should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation-practiced with another person of the same sex and thence into total homosexuality...."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Pages 77-79, 81-82

"Among the most common sexual sins our young people commit are necking and petting. Not only do these improper relations often lead to fornication, [unwed] pregnancy, and abortions - all ugly sins - but in and of themselves they are pernicious evils, and it is often difficult for youth to distinguish where one ends and another begins. They awaken lust and stir evil thoughts and sex desires. They are but parts of the whole family of related sins and indiscretions. Almost like twins, 'petting' and fornication are alike."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 65


spencer kimball"Also far-reaching is the effect of the loss of chastity. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. Even in a forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation where there is no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle."
-
Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 196


"And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth." (Genesis 4:9-14.) That was true of murder. It is also true of illicit sex, which, of course, includes all petting, fornication, adultery, homosexual acts, and all other perversions. The Lord may say to offenders, as He did to Cain, "What hast thou done?" The children thus conceived make damning charges against you; the companions who have been frustrated and violated condemn you; the body that has been defiled cries out against you; the spirit which has been dwarfed convicts you. You will have difficulty throughout the ages in totally forgiving yourself."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965. Often-used quote still used today in LDS seminary classes.


kimball"I do not find in the Bible the modern terms "petting" nor "homosexuality," yet I found numerous scriptures which forbade such acts under by whatever names they might be called. I could not find the term "homosexuality," but I did find numerous places where the Lord condemned such a practice with such vigor that even the death penalty was assessed."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965


"If adultery or fornication justified the death penalty in the old days, and still in Christ's day, is the sin any less today because the laws of the land do not assess the death penalty for it? Is the act less grievous? There must be a washing, a purging, a changing of attitudes, a correcting of appraisals, a strengthening toward self-mastery. There must be many prayers, and volumes of tears. There must be an inner conviction giving to the sin its full diabolical weight. There must be increased devotion and much thought and study. And this takes energy and time and often is accompanied with sore embarrassment, heavy deprivations and deep trials, even if indeed one is not excommunicated from the Church, losing all spiritual blessings."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Page 155


"How like the mistletoe is immorality. The killer plant starts with a sticky sweet berry. Little indiscretions are the berries -- indiscretions like sex thoughts sex discussions, passionate kissing, pornography. The leaves and little twigs are masturbation and necking and such, growing with every exercise. The full-grown plant is petting and sex looseness. It confounds, frustrates, and destroys like the parasite if it is not cut out and destroyed, for, in time it robs the tree, bleeds its life, and leaves it barren and dry; and, strangely enough, the parasite dies with its host."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference Address, April 1, 1967.

18 posted on 05/23/2012 1:08:37 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

New tagline


19 posted on 05/23/2012 2:50:21 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The inability or unwillingness to reality test beliefs is okay for my plumber but not for POTUS.)
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To: svcw

OK - I see where you’re coming from. No need for me to continue conversing with you about this.


20 posted on 05/23/2012 3:14:45 PM PDT by GilesB
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