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Skip to comments.[Mormon] Bishop’s handling of Vernon incest case was correct
Posted on 05/23/2012 9:20:15 AM PDT by greyfoxx39
There was another sexual abuse case in AZ where the local bishop failed to notify legal authorities.
the bishop had no duty to report to civil authorities
The law doesnt say that he must not...
What decent person would just stand by and do nothing while such an evil sin was being committed ???
This “bishop” person had a duty to report, the crime. I am glad he is going to jail.
This “oh we don’t pay our “bishops or clergy”, is so bogus.
What do they think tithes (in part) are for - to support the religious leader so they are not burdened by everyday needs.
Misread - thought the none reporting “bishop” was going to jail.
“Confidential confessions of abuse by the offender fall within the statutory clergy privilege and cannot be disclosed.”
I can’t speak directly to the law, but the lawyer’s statement above says that clergy cannot disclose, when the information comes from the offender.
It is one of the moral conflicts of clergy. On the one hand, if he reports (if he can legally report), nobody will come to him for counsel, and he becomes much less effective. On the other hand, if he doesn’t report, the person may continue harming others.
In this case, it sounds like the offender stopped his abuse (that’s a positive). It also sounds like the bishop gave help to all concerned.
As clergy, his concern should be for souls, not vengence, or even punishment. If the abuse continued, that places a heavy burden on the bishop, but does not, I think, remove his responsibility of confidentiality.
I do note that the offender did not escape punishment from the church - so, from what we have from the attorney, the bishop did as much as he was legally allowed to do - to stop the abuse (by advising and punishment) and to help the victim(s). If the abuse stopped, a good outcome. The only thing missing is the punishment, and the perp is getting that now.
BTW - bishops are not paid. Tithes support the church, its administration and paid officials - but not the bishops or elders.
The question actually should be, are lds “bishops” really clergy?
BTW The concept of tithing which comes from the Old Testament was to first support the religious leaders so they would not burdened with everyday necessitates and be of council to the flock, then the meeting place, then the store house.
It’s called tithes, offerings and alms.
I know about the Old Testament use of tithes - however, we were talking about how the LDS church uses its tithes: They are not used to support bishops and elders.
Who, other than the church, has the right to answer the question of who they designate as their clergy? If the Mormon church considers them clergy, then I accept that they are LDS clergy.
The law defines what a clergy is, they can call the ‘bishops” fish for all I care.
You might be wrong.
Do you really want the government deciding who is and who is not clergy? I certainly don’t.
According to #3, if the LDS says their bishops are clergy, they are clergy.
I don’t care what the lds call these people.
They are untrained in counseling (in any aspect of human relationship), part time guys who randomly think they have all the answers to problems and issues they have no business dealing with.
This brings up an interesting conundrum. Since every LDS male over the age of 16 is ordained a “priest” is any LDS male obligated to tell the authorities about child sexual abuse that is admitted to them by any other LDS member? Or is every priesthood holder exempt?
We're just MISSIONARIES!
"All of this should be conveyed without having priesthood leaders focus upon intimate matters which are a part of husband and wife relationships. Skillful interviewing and counseling can occur without discussion of clinical details by placing firm responsibility on individual members of the Church to put their lives in order before exercising the privilege of entering a house of the Lord. The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it."
- Official Declaration of the First Presidency of the Church, January 5th, 1982
"Among the most common sexual sins our young people commit are necking and petting. Not only do these improper relations often lead to fornication, [unwed] pregnancy, and abortions - all ugly sins - but in and of themselves they are pernicious evils, and it is often difficult for youth to distinguish where one ends and another begins. They awaken lust and stir evil thoughts and sex desires. They are but parts of the whole family of related sins and indiscretions. Almost like twins, 'petting' and fornication are alike."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 65
"Also far-reaching is the effect of the loss of chastity. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. Even in a forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation where there is no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 196
"And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth." (Genesis 4:9-14.) That was true of murder. It is also true of illicit sex, which, of course, includes all petting, fornication, adultery, homosexual acts, and all other perversions. The Lord may say to offenders, as He did to Cain, "What hast thou done?" The children thus conceived make damning charges against you; the companions who have been frustrated and violated condemn you; the body that has been defiled cries out against you; the spirit which has been dwarfed convicts you. You will have difficulty throughout the ages in totally forgiving yourself."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965. Often-used quote still used today in LDS seminary classes.
"I do not find in the Bible the modern terms "petting" nor "homosexuality," yet I found numerous scriptures which forbade such acts under by whatever names they might be called. I could not find the term "homosexuality," but I did find numerous places where the Lord condemned such a practice with such vigor that even the death penalty was assessed."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965
"If adultery or fornication justified the death penalty in the old days, and still in Christ's day, is the sin any less today because the laws of the land do not assess the death penalty for it? Is the act less grievous? There must be a washing, a purging, a changing of attitudes, a correcting of appraisals, a strengthening toward self-mastery. There must be many prayers, and volumes of tears. There must be an inner conviction giving to the sin its full diabolical weight. There must be increased devotion and much thought and study. And this takes energy and time and often is accompanied with sore embarrassment, heavy deprivations and deep trials, even if indeed one is not excommunicated from the Church, losing all spiritual blessings."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Page 155
"How like the mistletoe is immorality. The killer plant starts with a sticky sweet berry. Little indiscretions are the berries -- indiscretions like sex thoughts sex discussions, passionate kissing, pornography. The leaves and little twigs are masturbation and necking and such, growing with every exercise. The full-grown plant is petting and sex looseness. It confounds, frustrates, and destroys like the parasite if it is not cut out and destroyed, for, in time it robs the tree, bleeds its life, and leaves it barren and dry; and, strangely enough, the parasite dies with its host."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference Address, April 1, 1967.
OK - I see where you’re coming from. No need for me to continue conversing with you about this.
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