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Koran to be read during televised church service
Catholic Church Conservation ^ | 3 June 2012 | Cathcon

Posted on 06/02/2012 4:54:43 PM PDT by Gillibrand

There is controversy in advance of a televised church service on 17 June on ZDF (Cathcon- German equivalent of BBC). The reason: during the service of the Evangelical Free Church congregation (Baptist) in Kamp-Lintfort work where Christians and Muslim work alongside eachother in the mines, there will be a reading from the Koran. As the Baptist pastor, André Carouge explained, Christians and Muslims have maintained close relationships in Kamp-Lintfort since the terrorist attacks of 11 September 2001 in the United States.

(Excerpt) Read more at cathcon.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Islam; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: church; germany; protestant; service
Will post a video of the event when it occurs.
1 posted on 06/02/2012 4:54:51 PM PDT by Gillibrand
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To: Gillibrand

How about a reading of the Bible during Islamic services?


2 posted on 06/02/2012 5:18:30 PM PDT by bajabaja (Too ugly to be scanned at the airports.)
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To: Gillibrand

I did not read the article but just from the brief - what the hell is wrong with these people.
I always knew the end would come, I just did not ever think it would be ushered in by people who should know better.


3 posted on 06/02/2012 5:22:19 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Gillibrand
The service will also make it clear that non-Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

This is from the article.

So let me get this straight: Allah and the 300 million gods of Hinduism are the same God?
The Farsis of India, once Persians driven out of Persia, worship Allah as well as their plethora of gods?
The Chinese with their zillions of gods (kitchen gods, garden gods, you-name-it-gods) worship Allah too?
The Japanese Shintus worship Allah?

Harharhar, this author is nuts. Technical term.

4 posted on 06/02/2012 5:26:02 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: cloudmountain
"So let me get this straight: Allah and the 300 million gods of Hinduism are the same God?

The Farsis of India, once Persians driven out of Persia, worship Allah as well as their plethora of gods?

The Chinese with their zillions of gods (kitchen gods, garden gods, you-name-it-gods) worship Allah too?

The Japanese Shintus worship Allah? "

There is only one God, the God of the Bible, who is not synonymous with Allah.

There are many false gods, but they all spring from the same source, the Father of Lies, Satan.

So, in that sense, yes, ALL of the above are just slightly different versions the same lie.

5 posted on 06/02/2012 5:38:53 PM PDT by BwanaNdege (Man has often lost his way, but modern man has lost his address - Gilbert K. Chesterton)
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To: Gillibrand
Ain't multi-culti grand?


6 posted on 06/02/2012 5:51:23 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: cloudmountain; svcw; bajabaja

No, they don’t worship the same God. Our One God is a Trinitarian God. What all this shows is the utter bankruptcy of what Luther began and the spawn that has been begotten from his breakaway from the Catholic Church.

Chesterton put it best: “Those who believe in everything believe in nothing.”


7 posted on 06/02/2012 5:56:25 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Steelfish

You do know that Luther believed in one God, don’t you?
You do know that the Catholics were NOT the only Christian Church around, right?
(Feb 6, 2009) Pope Benedict XVI’s recent weekly public addresses in St. Peter’s Square, he quoted Martin Luther in declaring “Sola fide,” that salvation is by faith alone.


8 posted on 06/02/2012 6:16:49 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Steelfish

And exactly WHY did Pope John Paul kissed the Koran again????


9 posted on 06/02/2012 6:21:36 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: Steelfish
Nice try Bonefish.

But wrong.

This has NOTHING to do with the almighty Catholic church.

This has everything to do with MEN doing what they feel right in their own eyes.

Biblically based churches, that are non-Catholic, teach that their is only ONE true God. All others are just different names of the same source, Satan.

Acts 4: 10let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by this name this man stands here before you in good health. 11 He is the stone which was rejected by you, the builders, but which became the chief corner stone. 12 And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”

Just as there are Protestant churches and pastors that preach something other than Christ alone, there are also Catholics that teach that Christ ISN'T the only way. They might not be supported or endorsed by the Catholic church, none the less they still preach another gospel. Same as Protestants who preach another gospel.

I, as an Evangelical and Protestant, reject their message of ecumenicalism. There is only ONE true God and only one way to access him.

I also reject your assumption that somehow its a Protestant thing or a non Catholic thing, that the Catholic church holds the corner on the belief of the ONE true God.

10 posted on 06/02/2012 6:52:01 PM PDT by mountn man (Happiness is not a destination, its a way of life.)
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To: svcw

You might like to give this a slow, careful, and serious read:

http://www.scborromeo.org/papers/solafide.pdf


11 posted on 06/02/2012 6:53:19 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: mountn man

You got it all wrong. Catholics have a Catechism where central truths handed down to St. Peter and the Apostles, by scripture, tradition and revelation are bound together as a unifying whole. A single Truth. There are NO many or different paths to salvations. If that were the case, the birth, death, and resurrection of the Christ would be pointless and would be seen as a superfluous alternative. We could all be Buddhists or Hindus.

No sir, there is but one Truth, and there cannot be 35,000 different variations of Christianity that Luther has spawned from the gospel of prosperity aka Joel Osteen to the gospel of socialism Rev. Wright. These Protestant denominations are nothing but wild mushrooming heresies.

I suggest you pick up a book by Hillaire Belloc “Heresy” and engage in some serious reading before venturing into deep waters.


12 posted on 06/02/2012 7:03:57 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Steelfish
There is only ONE WAY to God, that is through Jesus Christ ALONE.

Belonging to the Catholic church doesn't grant you access to God and not belonging to the Catholic church doesn't ban you from it.

There is only one "Christianity", and that is Jesus the Christ came as God in man, died for ALL mans sins, that all MIGHT know salvation and have access to God the Father.

That salvation comes through belief that Jesus is who he said he is, God the Son, and also that he died for our sins and ACCEPT him as Lord of their life.

My salvation is guaranteed and has no bearing on my position on the Catholic church.

Christ alone is more than enough.

13 posted on 06/02/2012 7:34:23 PM PDT by mountn man (Happiness is not a destination, its a way of life.)
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To: Gillibrand

No doubt this “Baptist” Pastor denies the Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, and the power thereof!


14 posted on 06/02/2012 7:41:54 PM PDT by JSDude1
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To: Gillibrand

Evangelical Free Church congregation (Baptist) in Kamp-Lintfort

Whar us happening here


15 posted on 06/02/2012 7:43:09 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: mountn man

There is only one “Christianity”

Precisely.

When Christ commanded his Apostles to go forth and teach all nations, it was to teach ONE truth based on the one Church he founded and entrusted this task to St. Peter and his disciples just before his Ascension into Heaven. And He assured that the gates of hell shall never prevail against it. Indeed, it was the Church that sorted out what books, letters, and readings should form the New Testament and what should be left out as Gnostic readings or regarded as Arian heresy.


16 posted on 06/02/2012 7:43:59 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Gillibrand

What’s next mein kampf or the little red book? The insane are being allowed to rule the world. . .


17 posted on 06/02/2012 7:45:35 PM PDT by This I Wonder32460
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To: All

Just my small thoughts on all this mundane arguing.

We are mere humans, sinful, subject to all the deadly sins, and we create churches, sects, and religions, with human notions and rules about what we should believe, and who we should disdain.

We are so silly to believe that we know God, and how to interpret His desires/rules for us. We are mere humans, and we can only see through a glass, darkly.

We only need to know that God gave his only begotten Son to die for our sins, and that we are not worthy of that sacrifice, and we never will be. It is only by our faith, and our hope that we can daily do a bit better than our sinful yesterday, that we can be saved.

It doesn’t matter which denomination we attend. God has told us that His house has many mansions. It does matter that we do our best to love and forgive each other for our sins, trespasses, and failures to live up to the ideals expressed in the Sermon on the Mount.

It matters that we keep the faith in the straight and narrow path, and continually try to find our way to that, and not let ourselves go for the easy wide one.

It is so tempting to change/twist scripture to fit our fallen selves, so we can feel smug/good, rather than to realize how selfish, ego-driven, proud, slothful, petty, envious, etc, we all actually are.

Yeah, I know - you all think you are “without sin among us”. Well, I am not, and I weep every day that I can’t measure up. But, I have faith and hope that His sacrifice, which I do not deserve, will save me,


18 posted on 06/02/2012 8:57:24 PM PDT by jacquej
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To: jacquej

and, if I could be so bold as to add, we should worry more about the beams in our own eyes, than the splinters in the eyes of others.

Instead of nit-picking about those splinters, we should all be praying to gather for His forgiveness, which we, collectively, do not deserve.


19 posted on 06/02/2012 9:08:51 PM PDT by jacquej
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To: Steelfish

I am not Catholic.
I have many Catholic family including Priests and Nuns, that is the limit of my Catholic experience.
I do know that Catholicism was NOT the only Christian Church around, Catholicism was the predominate group, which controlled many governments.
I was curious what the current Pope had to say about Luther, which is why I included the quote.
I will read your pdf, soon but not tonight, I’ll let you know what I think.


20 posted on 06/02/2012 9:28:09 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw

Thanks. Nice to know you have an inquiring mind unlike some of the others we encounter.


21 posted on 06/02/2012 9:53:25 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Steelfish
No, they don’t worship the same God. Our One God is a Trinitarian God. What all this shows is the utter bankruptcy of what Luther began and the spawn that has been begotten from his breakaway from the Catholic Church.

Father Martin Luther suffered from the oldest sin of all: arrogance/pride. He knew better than everyone else.

There are some 30,000+ Protestant denominations in this world. That is ABSURD. Jesus wanted us united as His followers in ONE Church, not 30,000. Just think of all the Protestant denominations that have come and gone since 1540 (or so)...and will come and go in the future. Absurd.

One needs only to "google" Protestant denominations to see how HUGE the miasma of different non-Catholics groups there are.

They can't all be right. I wonder sometimes how Protestants square that outlandish number with themselves.

22 posted on 06/03/2012 9:52:00 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: mountn man
This has everything to do with MEN doing what they feel right in their own eyes.

Just a question: Are there no absolutes?
If some men feel that some things are "right in their own eyes" does that mean that it's not a sin?
People can talk themselves into all kinds of behaviors that they FEEL is RIGHT IN THEIR OWN EYES, but in Christian/Catholic worlds, they are a sin.

Absolutes have no part in what MEN do what they FEEL is right in their own eyes. It's not about what FEELS right but what God SAYS is right....whether men agree or not.

Am I wrong here?

23 posted on 06/03/2012 9:59:33 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: jacquej
and, if I could be so bold as to add, we should worry more about the beams in our own eyes, than the splinters in the eyes of others.
Instead of nit-picking about those splinters, we should all be praying to gather for His forgiveness, which we, collectively, do not deserve.

GOOD words.

24 posted on 06/03/2012 10:02:05 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: cloudmountain

Absolutely right. The Great Commission given to his 11 Apostles was to go forth and teach all nations. They were to instruct in one Truth. Hence one Church with the power given to His disciples, whatsoever thou shall bind on earth will be bound in Heaven and whatever thou loosens (forgives) on earth shall be loosened in Heaven. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is rooted in both scripture and apostolic tradition. Protestantism has been the bane of our times. We have seen what occurred with the breakaway Anglicans, a concession to Henry VIII’s fornication and lust. The final days of Luther show a tragic and mentally disturbed mind.


25 posted on 06/03/2012 10:48:02 AM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: HarleyD
"And exactly WHY did Pope John Paul kissed the Koran again????"

He kissed the Chaldean Bible.

26 posted on 06/03/2012 11:10:04 AM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: cloudmountain
Just a question: Are there no absolutes? If some men feel that some things are "right in their own eyes" does that mean that it's not a sin? People can talk themselves into all kinds of behaviors that they FEEL is RIGHT IN THEIR OWN EYES, but in Christian/Catholic worlds, they are a sin.

Absolutes have no part in what MEN do what they FEEL is right in their own eyes. It's not about what FEELS right but what God SAYS is right....whether men agree or not.

Am I wrong here?

_____________________________________________________

No you are not wrong.

I Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. There are words which man's wisdom teaches, but they are not the pure words of God.

Isaiah 55:9 For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.

Proverbs 21:2 Every way of a man [is] right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.

I Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

I Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. There are words which man's wisdom teaches, but they are not the pure words of God.

Psalms 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

I Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

Yes, there are absolutes. But man is not comfortable with those absolutes. We have given ourselves over to words that tickle our ears. "Can't we all just get along?" has become a clever slogan, that goes hand in hand with the "coexist" bumper stickers.

The problem is THERE IS absolute truth. That truth is, there is ONLY ONE WAY to heaven, and that is through Christ Jesus. That means all the other belief systems fail.

Now that doesn't mean we can't live together, but it does mean that all beliefs ARE NOT the same or equal. And that offends people. And thats the problem with people today. We are afraid of "OFFENDING" others. The issue is, the Bible tells us that the Gospel is offensive to others. The problem is that pastors today are afraid of offending others. So pastors water down the Gospel and teach a different gospel, so as not to "offend" others.

People are offended by
Romans 3:23 "for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"

People are offended by
Romans 6:23 " For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

People are offended by
Isaiah 59:2 "But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God,And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear. "

People are offended by
"Isaiah 64:6 "6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away."

People are REALLY offended by
Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”

And people are offended at
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

People are offended by
Romans 10 " 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, “ Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
13 for “ WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED .”

And probably the most offensive to people
John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, "I am THE WAY,
and THE TRUTH,
and THE LIFE;
NO ONE comes to the Father... BUT THROUGH ME.

All these are absolutes.

27 posted on 06/03/2012 12:29:48 PM PDT by mountn man (Happiness is not a destination, its a way of life.)
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To: Natural Law
Well, now that's not what Father Joe states:

But just to keep in perspective what the Catholic Church teaches about the Muslims here is the Catholic Catechism:

One should not complain about Luther.

28 posted on 06/03/2012 12:42:04 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: mountn man

Thank you.


29 posted on 06/03/2012 12:58:57 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: Steelfish
Absolutely right. The Great Commission given to his 11 Apostles was to go forth and teach all nations. They were to instruct in one Truth. Hence one Church with the power given to His disciples, whatsoever thou shall bind on earth will be bound in Heaven and whatever thou loosens (forgives) on earth shall be loosened in Heaven. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is rooted in both scripture and apostolic tradition. Protestantism has been the bane of our times. We have seen what occurred with the breakaway Anglicans, a concession to Henry VIII’s fornication and lust. The final days of Luther show a tragic and mentally disturbed mind.

I have watched EWTN over the years and listen to the FORMER Protestants tell their stories. The Journey Home with Marcus Grodi is always interesting to hear all the FORMER Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc., tell their stories of conversion. So many of them started by reading the Church Fathers of the first 300 years of Christianity.

How do Protestants make sense of 1500 YEARS of Catholicism, then ONE angry priest, Father Martin Luther, changing all that? How do they make sense of the 30,000 different versions of Christianity, ALL discarding the one Church founded by Jesus 2000 years ago?

And, how in the world do the Anglicans justify Henry VIII's abandonment of Catholicism ALL BECAUSE he HAD to have a son? How do they justify the abomination of SIX wives for one son, who, by the way, died before his 20th birthday?
Do you remember the rhyme for figuring out the fate of his SIX wives?

Divorced, beheaded, died, divorced, beheaded, survived.

This arrogant creep and wife murderer founded his own church and the Anglicans bought it and still buy it today. Hard to believe. How can Anglicanism even THINK to be its own denomination, founded by SUCH a person?
30 posted on 06/03/2012 1:15:11 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: cloudmountain

True. The Church has the largest number of conversions from other religions including scores of former Communists, atheists and agnostics and even Rabbis, including a former Chief Rabbi of Rome.

http://www.zenit.org/article-9927?l=english


31 posted on 06/03/2012 1:35:24 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Gillibrand

Sad.


32 posted on 06/03/2012 1:54:04 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Steelfish
True. The Church has the largest number of conversions from other religions including scores of former Communists, atheists and agnostics and even Rabbis, including a former Chief Rabbi of Rome

I was just watching some of the diamond jubilee of Queen Elizabeth and the announcer reminded us that Queen Elizabeth is HEAD OF THE ANGLICAN CHURCH. Since when does a queen or king be the HEAD of a Christian church?? When did the queen/king become equal to ST. PETER, whom Jesus chose as the ROCK on which to build His Church?

The Apostolic Tradition, begun by Jesus Himself, is unbroken since St. Peter was crucified on Vatican Hill in Rome. St. Peter asked to be crucified UPSIDE DOWN as he didn't deserve the "honor" to be crucified like Our Lord.

Why do Protestants continue to deny that Jesus-founded Apostolic Tradition?

The Apostles chose another leader of their group, NOT by lottery, as the rabbis chose their Chief Priest (Rabbi) but by vote of the current Church leaders (now cardinals since there are just too many bishops in the world to make a vote feasible).

Oh well.

33 posted on 06/03/2012 4:33:41 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: cloudmountain

Anglican (Episcopalian); Lutheran; and Presbyterian Churches are a farce led by homosexual pastors and “bishops,” the so-called Black churches are political outfits in sheep’s clothing that cater to mostly the “illiterate” segment of the plantation crowd, and then you have a variety of mega-church Protestant pastors who use their sucker-audience to simply fatten their wallets and those of their family a la Rev. Schuller; Joel Osteen; and the rest of the scumbags.


34 posted on 06/03/2012 4:46:33 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Steelfish
Anglican (Episcopalian); Lutheran; and Presbyterian Churches are a farce led by homosexual pastors and “bishops,” the so-called Black churches are political outfits in sheep’s clothing that cater to mostly the “illiterate” segment of the plantation crowd, and then you have a variety of mega-church Protestant pastors who use their sucker-audience to simply fatten their wallets and those of their family a la Rev. Schuller; Joel Osteen; and the rest of the scumbags.

Geez, Steelfish, quit sugar-coatin' it and say what you REALLY feel. :o)

35 posted on 06/04/2012 7:22:20 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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